49 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

Just watching the 1983 F1 season review.

Narrator, the late Brian Kreisky, is pronouncing Prost to rhyme with toast. So did the American ESPN guy who featured in the Senna film.

I've always said Prost to rhyme with frost.

So which is correct?

[Vitesse2]

Ah, the Septics always get confused!

The French pronunciation is as in frost.

Rhyming it with toast is presumably from making the erroneous asssumption that it should be the German "prost" - which means "cheers". Or slainte, if you prefer.

[BorderReiver]

It's always been Prost and in Frost for me.

[E1pix]

Alain himself addressed this in an interview on ESPN in maybe 1991. Now if I could only remember what he said... If I get a chance (unlikely), I'll look at the VHS.

I do recall him cracking a joke about "Pro" being as good as any.

To further mix it up, "A-lonn" or "A-lane?"

[scheivlak]

E1pix, on Mar 17 2012, 23:39, said:

To further mix it up, "A-lonn" or "A-lane?"

Neither of them

Just Alain like in

[Doug Nye]

The late Barrie Gill in his commentaries used to pronounce it 'Pwoast' - which is about as wrong as you can make it... short of 'Featherstonehaugh'.

DCN

[E1pix]

scheivlak, on Mar 17 2012, 16:46, said:

Neither of them

Just Alain like in

So A-lonn, just like I said.

[pacificquay]

That clip says A-lann, not A-lonn

[Twin Window]

Doug Nye, on Mar 17 2012, 22:51, said:

The late Barrie Gill in his commentaries used to pronounce it 'Pwoast' - which is about as wrong as you can make it... short of 'Featherstonehaugh'.

DCN

Hahaha!

Frankly, in my opinion, this thread defies belief. Hey ho.

[Kpy]

That clip sounds nothing like French to me - more like Welsh.
This is more like it:
http://www.hearnames...ames/alain.html

[LittleChris]

Twin Window, on Mar 17 2012, 23:16, said:

Hahaha!

Frankly, in my opinion, this thread defies belief. Hey ho.

No chance of moving it to Historical Research then Twinny ?

[pacificquay]

Twin Window, on Mar 17 2012, 23:16, said:

Hahaha!

Frankly, in my opinion, this thread defies belief. Hey ho.

It is a genuine question.

I've had something I've thought for decades thrown into confusion.

[Talon9999]

Harking back to days gone by when Denny Hulme was pronounced Hume. Recently revived when Jonathon Green was commentating the NZ Toyota Series over January/ February and kept making the same mistake.

[Catalina Park]

Talon9999, on Mar 18 2012, 18:53, said:

Harking back to days gone by when Denny Hulme was pronounced Hume. Recently revived when Jonathon Green was commentating the NZ Toyota Series over January/ February and kept making the same mistake.

It can get worse, I have heard him called Danny Hume.

[AAGR]

If you want another pronunciation bone to chew - consider how to say 'Rohrl' - as in multiple World Rally Champion Walter Rohrl.

Come to that, how many different ways have you heard 'Loeb' (as in eight times World Rally Champion Sebastian Loeb) pronounced ?

AAGR

[ensign14]

Talon9999, on Mar 18 2012, 07:53, said:

Harking back to days gone by when Denny Hulme was pronounced Hume. Recently revived when Jonathon Green was commentating the NZ Toyota Series over January/ February and kept making the same mistake.

Didn't Denny, or his father, point out "you can't knock the 'ell out of a Hulme"?

[john aston]

And then there is the Ayrton question. Always known as Airton to me until - I think in his last season - dear old Murray went all Portugese on us and started calling him 'Eye - air- ton'. Which I think Ronzo always did ?

[Allan Lupton]

john aston, on Mar 18 2012, 10:35, said:

And then there is the Ayrton question. Always known as Airton to me until - I think in his last season - dear old Murray went all Portugese on us and started calling him 'Eye - air- ton'. Which I think Ronzo always did ?

That was Murray misunderstanding what he'd been told IMO.
I would expect it to be "Ire-ton" (Ire as in anger) in Portuguese and Muddly used that without dropping the "air" bit giving the two syllable name three syllables.

As for Loeb there are various reasons for assuming various ways of saying it. If you assume that someone born in Alsace has a German style name it would have been Löb originally so one syllable with the modified "o" sound as in Köln and that's my favoured answer.

Mind you it's not unknown for our motor sport types to be different: e.g. everyone I know called Coulthard calls themselves Coult'ard but ex-racer David says Coul-thard. How does the TNFer of that name say it?

Edited by Allan Lupton, 18 March 2012 - 14:35.

[David McKinney]

And who's this bloke Vern the BBC commentary referred to?

[elansprint72]

Twin Window, on Mar 17 2012, 23:16, said:

Hahaha!

Frankly, in my opinion, this thread defies belief. Hey ho.

I'm with Bauble on the issue of recent threads hereabouts.

[Vitesse2]

Not sure why everybody is getting so het up about this? We already have a thread started years ago by Nanni Dietrich called Pronounce, which also has a link to one started by prettyface called Correct pronunciations.. Prost doesn't feature in either.

I was wondering who Vern was as well, David. I thought Schuppan might have been making a comeback. And on that subject: what's the correct pronunciation of Schuppan?

[Bloggsworth]

Vitesse2, on Mar 17 2012, 22:29, said:

Ah, the Septics always get confused!

The French pronunciation is as in frost.

Rhyming it with toast is presumably from making the erroneous asssumption that it should be the German "prost" - which means "cheers". Or slainte, if you prefer.;)

Exactly - It depends how drunk you are...

[cpbell]

Vitesse2, on Mar 18 2012, 16:50, said:

Not sure why everybody is getting so het up about this? We already have a thread started years ago by Nanni Dietrich called Pronounce, which also has a link to one started by prettyface called Correct pronunciations.. Prost doesn't feature in either.

I was wondering who Vern was as well, David. I thought Schuppan might have been making a comeback. And on that subject: what's the correct pronunciation of Schuppan?

I'm assuming the reference is to Jean-Eric Vergne, the new Toro Rosso driver? As an ex A-level French student, I'd pronounce his surname "Veairne", which is quite difficult to spell phonetically but has a recognisable quality when spoken by a French person. As for le Professeur, I'd agree that the first link was way off the correct pronunciation, though, in this case, it's easier to spell phonetically - "Alagne", similar to the pronunciation of the last two syllables of "lasagne" is pretty close.

[Sharman]

I think Graham Gauld will agree with me. It depends where you are how it is pronounced. In French if it is written it is pronounced, so Verne would Vern with a hint of eh at the end. Things can vary in less than 10 miles, I had used to live in a village named Bellegarde, looks simple doesn't it? In the village it is Bellehgardeh. Say that to somebody in Limoux 12kms away and they look bewildered and say "Where" . So you switch to Bellegard and they are perfectly happy. Strange the French.

[Vitesse2]

cpbell, on Mar 18 2012, 20:46, said:

I'm assuming the reference is to Jean-Eric Vergne, the new Toro Rosso driver? As an ex A-level French student, I'd pronounce his surname "Veairne", which is quite difficult to spell phonetically but has a recognisable quality when spoken by a French person.

... with a combination of the rolled throaty R and a nasal G! Not easy for non-native speakers to achieve unless well-taught (which I was!)

cpbell, on Mar 18 2012, 20:46, said:

As for le Professeur, I'd agree that the first link was way off the correct pronunciation, though, in this case, it's easier to spell phonetically - "Alagne", similar to the pronunciation of the last two syllables of "lasagne" is pretty close.

Eh? I'd go with rhyming it with the middle syllable only, but with the N almost silent. I cringe every time I hear somebody call him "Ah-lane"!

[D-Type]

Have we had how to pronounce the German fella's name yet?

I think it is more like Mick-eh-ell (rather than the English Mike-ull rhyming with pull) Shoe-mack-her

[AAGR]

Oh dear - I thought we were going to get away without mentioning Michael Schumacher

[doc knutsen]

D-Type, on Mar 18 2012, 22:42, said:

Have we had how to pronounce the German fella's name yet?

I think it is more like Mick-eh-ell (rather than the English Mike-ull rhyming with pull) Shoe-mack-her

For anyone who has trouble with Mi-ha-ell Shoo-ma-ha, how about pre-war ERA and Alfa ace Eugen Bjørnstad

[ensign14]

"The Norwegian".

[D-Type]

paulsenna1, on Mar 18 2012, 22:06, said:

Previous pronunciation thread...

http://forums.autosp...showtopic=75996

I looked there first - it doesn't answer my main question: How do you pronounce the "Michael" correctly? I am certain that it should not be pronounced in the English fashion but don't know how it should be pronaounced. That is why I asked the question.

[elansprint72]

Vitesse2, on Mar 17 2012, 22:29, said:

Ah, the Septics always get confused!

The French pronunciation is as in frost.

Rhyming it with toast is presumably from making the erroneous asssumption that it should be the German "prost" - which means "cheers". Or slainte, if you prefer.;)

Define Septics, please.

[D-Type]

elansprint72, on Mar 18 2012, 23:09, said:

Define Septics, please.

Try rhyming slang







(septic tank >> Yank)







.

Edited by D-Type, 19 March 2012 - 08:46.

[Allan Lupton]

Somewhere on TNF is a link to the site where most of the current drivers say their own names - but I can't easily find it at present. It was there that I got David Coulthard's version of his surname.

[MCS]

john aston, on Mar 18 2012, 10:35, said:

And then there is the Ayrton question. Always known as Airton to me until - I think in his last season - dear old Murray went all Portugese on us and started calling him 'Eye - air- ton'. Which I think Ronzo always did ?

As did David Hobbs, formerly of this parish...but doubtless screwed up completely by living in the land of make belief...

[Tim Murray]

D-Type, on Mar 18 2012, 22:58, said:

I looked there first - it doesn't answer my main question: How do you pronounce the "Michael" correctly?

Ah, but it is discussed in the other pronunciation thread linked to by Vitesse in post 21:

Darren Galpin, on Jun 5 2001, 13:37, said:

FEV - Michael should be "Mik-aye-el" in German.

JensonFan, on Jun 5 2001, 14:27, said:

Hm, "Mik-aye-el" would be a person written like "Mikael". The usual German "Michael" has yet another of the sounds not existing in English language, the "ch". Scottish persons would know the sound, though - it's nearly the same as the "ch" in "Loch Ness". If you want to try producing the sound in a funny way, my dictionary states that

an approximation to this sound may be acquired by assuming the mouth-configuration for "i" and emitting a strong current of breath

Don't try this with a mouth full of coffee, though

Barry Lake, on Aug 7 2001, 07:08, said:

Well, to answer my own question...

I went to Germany, not for this specific purpose I might add, and asked this question of many, many people, from all parts of the country, including within a few kilometres of Schumacher's home town. The replies all were the same.

They told me that the 'ch" in Michael is pronounced "sh" - with no exceptions. The "ch" in Schumacher is pronounced with the back-of-the-throat "ch" sound of a German preparing to spit on a Frenchman (or perhaps an Englishman).

Michael, they all told me, is pronounced "Mish-ay-ell". I asked (many, many times) "Are you sure that is how Michael Schumacher, the F1 driver pronounces his name?"

The answer, always, was "Yes".

Short of asking the man himself, this is the best I can do. Who am I to argue with umpteen million Germans?

Uwe, on Nov 4 2002, 14:08, said:

Barry,

if you pronounce it "Mish-a-ell" this is in fact a very "rhinelandic" pronunciation of his name. 10 years ago Schumacher would have answered your question exactly in this way as his hometown Kerpen is in the rhineland (you can hear his rhinelandic accent still today but it is not so strong as in previous years).

[Tim Murray]

Allan Lupton, on Mar 18 2012, 23:18, said:

Somewhere on TNF is a link to the site where most of the current drivers say their own names - but I can't easily find it at present. It was there that I got David Coulthard's version of his surname.

Yer tiz:

http://namethatdrive...lect_driver.asp

[Rob]

Allan Lupton, on Mar 18 2012, 14:32, said:

That was Murray misunderstanding what he'd been told IMO.
I would expect it to be "Ire-ton" (Ire as in anger) in Portuguese and Muddly used that without dropping the "air" bit giving the two syllable name three syllables.

I read somewhere that Murray started saying Eye-air-tun because he thought he'd been pronouncing it wrong. He then got a lot of nasty mail from people who thought he was going a bit too continental and he switched back to Air-tun. At the following race, Senna found Murray and asked him why he'd changed back, which left Murray flabbergasted!

[David McKinney]

So DC's now saying 'coal-thard'

Like the earlier poster, I always presume in the early years of career that 'cool-tard' would be correct. Someone who knew his father even agreed with me. The first time I heard him said his name he surprised me by saying 'cool-thid', with the accent very much on the first syllable. Seems he's changed again...

[Glengavel]

Rob, on Mar 19 2012, 01:34, said:

I read somewhere that Murray started saying Eye-air-tun because he thought he'd been pronouncing it wrong. He then got a lot of nasty mail from people who thought he was going a bit too continental and he switched back to Air-tun.

He what?!?

[Sharman]

AAGR, on Mar 18 2012, 23:06, said:

Oh dear - I thought we were going to get away without mentioning Michael Schumacher

Cobblers

[nicanary]

This thread seems to run and run...

Surely the way to pronounce a name is simply to ask the feller how his family does it? I got caught out with this new Aussie lad - apparently his family say "Ricardo" even though it's not spelt that way. If a British family gives their son a "continental" name, it is pronounced as it would be in the country of derivation, such as Andre instead of Andrew. Presumably Schumi was named Michael after the apostle, and the "English" spelling should be spoken in the English manner.

Vergne is "Vernye" with a very soft ye.
Vern Schuppan - presumably short for Vernon.
Alain Prost - "Alahn (almost inaudible n) Prosst"
Schumacher - Shoema-ccchhh-a. The cccchh will be familiar to chefs as it is how they prepare a docker's oyster.
Hulme is "Hullm" to their family (and why not?)

All this comes from modern language tuition 43 years ago, when German A-level literature was printed in Gothic script. The pronunciation isn't an exact science, but depends on your individual tutor of that time. Heaven help us in a few years time with the new christian name trends - Hello. Simon, my name's Shaniqua, and I want to be famous,innit.

[nicanary]

Just realised I didn't cover the rally boy - Loeb is Lerb. I agree with the other post that is of Alsatian derivation.

I also agree that pronunciation can vary over short geographical distances. My dear old mum came from North Norfolk - smarty-pants from the smoke say Happisburgh as Haysbro, but I can assure you that many locals say Happisburg. So ya boo sucks.

[ensign14]

nicanary, on Mar 19 2012, 11:10, said:

Just realised I didn't cover the rally boy - Loeb is Lerb. I agree with the other post that is of Alsatian derivation.

Yes, he's good on ruff surfaces.

[uechtel]

nicanary, on Mar 19 2012, 13:03, said:

This thread seems to run and run...

Surely the way to pronounce a name is simply to ask the feller how his family does it?

Hahaha, but this may possibly also lead into a lingual abyss. Take Schumacher´s good traditional first name Michael. In "official" German it is pronounced like "Mee-{ch}ah-ehl", just like the letter sequence suggests it. The {ch} is a very special sound which does not have any direct correspondent in English or French. The Russian know it as the 'x' of the Kyrillian alphabet and also the Arabs will probably have no problems with that. It is a voiceless sound like a 'sh', but without using the tongue.

Now the funny thing is, like in most other languages, there are a lot of local variants and variations and virtually nobody is really speaking "pure" german at all. Besides other strange sounds most Germans from the western areas have a tendency to shift the 'ch' after a 'bright' vocal towards kind of a softer 'sh'. So Schumacher himself would probably pronounce it rather like "Mee-shah-{ae}l" (the {ae} like in the English word "air"). Nevertheless, in the strict sense this is not 'correct' German.

In the same consequence in official "high" german language his last name is pronounced "Shoo-mah-{ch}-ehr" (with an "e" like in "very" at the end).

Concerning Walter Röhrl the vocal is pronounced like in the French word "oef", while the "r" are spoken less from the throat and more from the tongue than in the English language.

[David McKinney]

...or even the French word oeuf
(Sorry)

[kayemod]

David McKinney, on Mar 19 2012, 16:32, said:

...or even the French word oeuf
(Sorry)

Hey, this isn't la tension artérielle thread you know!

[elansprint72]

kayemod, on Mar 19 2012, 16:27, said:

Hey, this isn't la tension artérielle thread you know!

Don't egg him on.

[Vitesse2]

On ne peut pas faire une omelette sans casser des oeufs ...

[ensign14]

And that's enoeuf of that.

[cpbell]

Vitesse2, on Mar 18 2012, 21:26, said:

Eh? I'd go with rhyming it with the middle syllable only, but with the N almost silent. I cringe every time I hear somebody call him "Ah-lane"!

Good point - I was attempting to emphasise the fact that the "i" is barely hinted-at, but inadvertently gave the impression that the "n" would be stressed, which, as you rightly point-out, is not the case.