21 replies to this topic

[NYR2119935]

http://www.racingone...asp?artnum=5693


And so it Begins...

Dan Knutson

SILVERSTONE, Great Britain - In retrospect, Juan Pablo Montoya is happy he spent two years in Champ Cars, even though he admits he was bitterly disappointed when he didn't get the Williams Formula One drive back in 1999. CART, Montoya says, has done a good job to prepare him for Formula One.

"I always dreamed about F1," Montoya says, "and when I was kid I used to watch F1 in my house." He thought his dream would come true in 1999. He'd won the International Formula 3000 Championship in 1998 and worked as a test driver for Williams. But then Frank Williams decided to sign Alex Zanardi rather than Montoya for the F1 seat alongside Ralf Schumacher in 1999.

"I wanted to sign with Frank," Montoya recalls, "and he decided he didn't me to drive the car yet. Honestly, I was very disappointed because I thought I was well prepared to drive the car. Now, after all that I learned in Champ Cars, I built up my confidence. I won races. I learned to do long race distances. Physically you are better prepared and mentally you are much stronger. So what he did with me, I was much better off."

There is a perception, a belief, a prejudice, call it what you like, in Europe that CART drivers are second rate compared to the F1 men.

"Really?!" Montoya says, flashing a huge smile, when I ask him about this. "Villeneuve was a Champ Car driver, wasn't he?"

Yes, but so was Michael Andretti whose F1 career flopped with a miserable season with McLaren in 1993.

"Yeah, but if you look at Michael, he never tested the car," Montoya says. "He didn't even live in Europe. So it is very difficult to try and perform, first of all having Senna as a teammate and second without testing the car. You are never going to get too much or be close to where you got to be that way."

The F1 community's perception of CART drivers wasn't helped by Zanardi's equally miserable season in 1999. True, Zanardi had been in F1 from 1991 through 1994, but that had been with uncompetitive teams. After proving himself a winner in CART he came back to F1 and failed to score a single point.

"What happened to Zanardi was a big shame because everybody really expected him to do well," Montoya says. "I really expected that he was going to do well."

Now it's Montoya's turn show how a couple of seasons in Champ Cars will relate to F1. Will he be a Villeneuve or an Andretti?

"From my point of view," Montoya says, "I am trying the learn the tracks as fast as I can, and to learn the car. If you look at the speeds in testing, so far I've been quite good. So from my point of view it looks quite promising."

But in reality, was it not a lot easier for you to go to North America and beat up on them than it is going for you to beat the guys in F1?

"In CART you can have the same equipment as somebody else," Montoya says. "Here, let's say if McLaren is the faster car, if you don't have a car as fast as theirs you are not going to win. It is very simple. They are always going to win unless they break down. In Champ Cars you can have the same chassis, engines, shocks, same everything. So it is about you being able to make a difference in the car. That's one thing that's quite good about Champ Cars because it is a more even playing field than F1."

One of the benefits of having that even field in CART was getting to race against so many different drivers.

"With CART you have a good range of drivers," Montoya says, "and the good thing with CART is that you don't know who you are racing against every weekend. Every weekend you can find somebody else. Here you seem to be racing against the same people always." Asked how a Champ Car compares to a F1 car, Montoya replies: "It is very difficult to compare because the Champ Car is a lot heavier but it has a lot more power. With F1 technology and the F1 car being so light, you can make a lot of time under braking. In the fast corners they are both about the same speed, but a F1 car changes directions a lot faster and brakes a lot later. But in a Champ Car, when you put the power on, you go f****** hell!"

Another key difference between the two series is that the people and ambience in the CART make the paddock a far more friendly place than that of the F1. Will Montoya miss that atmosphere? "No, not really," he replies. "To be honest with you, when I went there at the beginning it was so friendly that I was a bit surprised because I had always raced in Europe and I was used to the European atmosphere. But I don't think you go to races to make friends."

The bottom line, Montoya says, is that his two seasons in CART will be beneficial in his rookie F1 season.

"I learned a lot of things in CART," Montoya says. "It gave me a lot of experience with things like pit stops and race strategies that, if you come fresh into F1, you would not know. So it gave me a bit of an advantage from people who have to start from zero." Finally, what are your expectations this season?

"At the moment I don't have any," Montoya says. "I want to do well. I can say that I will be trying as hard as I can at every race, every lap. I am not out here to drive around for 60 or 70 laps. I am here because I want to win races and I want to try as hard as I can every time I'm out in the car."

[NYR2119935]

ack
can a mod please delete my poll?

I f'ed it up

[Ricardo F1]

No my opinion won't change because Juan was just over in CART waiting for his entrance into F1. It's not like he was a born CART driver, he had his taste of F1 and needed something to do until Frank thought he was ready . . .

[JPMCrew]

Who really cares what other people think? It's not like those who don't like CART are "better" fans than those who do. Actually, many of the people I respect the most in autoracing enjoy CART. That a few Atlas F1 posters don't like it doesn't mean anything to those of us who do. And the same with ALMS or any other series one happens to follow.

[Comma]

No - my opinion on CARTs wont change due to the sucess (or lack of it as the case may be) by one competitor. I judge it as a sport in it's own right, as well as a platform to reach a 'higher' level of racing.

The achievements of Juan Montoya do not mould my opinion of a sport he once participated in.

[RedFever]

why should my opinion of CART change???

CARt and F1 are entirely different series. Only constant is that both are open-wheelers series. The driving style required is different and the tracks are very different (moslty permanent track in one, mostly oval and street circuits in the other).

If JPM succeeds in both, he just proves that he was good at both. JV however achieved this already years ago, so what is the news if he does???

[Greg L]

No, my opinion won't change, but I suspect that the opinion of many other people will. It seems to me that there are quite a few people who consider CART second rate, but that really isn't the case at all. I love F1 and think it is the pinacle of motorsport, but CART racing is just as fast (if not faster), and they are becoming a very global sport, just like F1. It seems to be a bit of a feeder series for F1 in recent years, but that doesn't mean it isn't a first class racing series in its own right.

[LB]

Actually F1 is quite a feeder series for Champ Cars.

when you think of the people like Mansell, Zanardi, Christain Fittipaldi & Uncle Emmo, Nakano, Marques and a few more that I can't think of at 05.25am

[OssieFan]

When will you stop trying to make everyone a cart fan?

[baddog]

Originally posted by LB
Actually F1 is quite a feeder series for Champ Cars.

when you think of the people like Mansell, Zanardi, Christain Fittipaldi & Uncle Emmo, Nakano, Marques and a few more that I can't think of at 05.25am

mmm now.. what did those people have in common? can you guess? oh go on I know you can. oh alright Ill tell you seeing as you're struggling.

they all either
a: retired from F1 and pursued cart as a retirement hobby
b: failed to make the grade in F1 and took cart seats as consolation prizes

find a SUCCESFUL F1 driver who went to cart as a matter of career choice when a competitive F1 seat was available (you know.. like Andretti, Villeneueve, Zanardi, Montoya in reverse). then Ill be convinced.

Sorry.. just taking the piss as is my role in life

Shaun

[RJL]

Nigel Mansell

[tacololo]

I love Cart because it is a genuine drivers series with unpredictable outcomes, yet I think Baddog is quite right.

RJL, Nigel Mansell had just lost his seat at Williams.

Taco

[JPMCrew]

... After winning the world championship ;)

[tacololo]

JPMcrew, you`re quite right but he had lost his seat nevertheless and had not secured another competitive drive for the next season. Frank Williams has quite a reputation for dropping world champions from his team. Damon Hill too for example.

Taco

[GraDee]

My opinion of CART would not change as I already happen to think that CART is superb... a full grid of good racers.

F1 is half good drivers
A quarter rich/knows someone in high places
A quarter top racers.

[baddog]

Nigel went to CART when F1 turned sour and a WDC standard seat was not available. His pride didnt allow him to take a 'demotion' within F1. He was also nearly at the end of his career.

Jacques, Juan Pableo, Alex, Michael.. all of these went to F1 when on top of the world in cart and able to have any drive they wanted. They CHOSE F1 as the next challenge

A slight difference there eh?

Shaun

[RJL]

Folks, Nigel had NOT lost his seat at Williams. He and Frank were at odds regarding salary, so Nigel played the CART card. I was watching the press conference where Nige was to announce his departure from F1, and saw that a note was passed from Frank to the Nige. Nige gave frank a sour look and announced that even though Frank had just offered him what he wanted to stay at Williams, it was too late now, and he was still leaving for CART as he had committed to Newman-Hass.

So you see, the reigning WC decided to leave F1 for CART, rather than defend his title, even though he had the opportunity to remain at Williams. And that is the example that Baddog was looking for. The Williams seat was available. Alain Prost's imminent arrival at Williams may also have had something to do with Nigel's decision, as things had'nt gone so well between them at Ferrari.

Alain had been secured, but it was not Nigel who's seat was in jeopardy, it was Damon Hill's. Had Nige decided to stay, Damon would have reverted to being test driver. The following year, Frank was still totally non-committal about Damon chances of retaining the race seat for the duration of the season. I'm surprised you guys don't remember this stuff.

[baddog]

Thats a serious misrepresentation of the state of affairs around mansells departure from formula one in 1992/1993. Suggesting that those who remember it far more clearly than you seem to is disingenuous. Your explanation reads like frank williams authorised biography. You make it sound like after winning the WDC he thought "oh.. I could stay here and win the WDC again, but no thats been done now, what shall I do now for a challenge.. oh yes CART, thats a step up and no mistake murray..". Hardly I think you will find a fair representation of what went on.

Have you ever heard of the term 'constructive dismissal'?

Frank Williams, who (for his own reasons which are not necessarily wrong and certainly not the point here) did NOT want nigel in the team for 93, and manipulated him into inevitable resignation. If this happened to you or me we would have recourse to legal tribunals. Nigel as an F1 driver did what he had to do which was bite the bullet and get out. He could have driven for other F1 teams of course, but not for one that was going to provide a WDC car, and his pride and not incosiderable ego made this unthinkable. So he looked to the US for an opportunity to be a big fish in the pond again, and got it in CART. CART wasnt a step down to a crap series, far from it, but it was NOT a chosen career move, it was a move forced by the situation in F1. THAT is what is totally different from the recent arrivals from CART to F1.

Shaun

[LB]

Right on the Mansell thing what RJL said is the official Nigel Mansell version , what baddog said is the williams version, both lost out nuff said.

There are 22 drivers in F1 only 10-12 I would regard as among the best racers in the world. The rest are made up of has beens and pay drivers there are 28? racers in cart they have maybe 10 top racers also. (not as good as the F1 crew b4 any starts playing the Schuie card).

Villenueve was not DOMINANT in Cart and he seems pretty good for F1. Cart and F1 are two totally different series that require different driving styles, there is nothing to say Schumacher would go onto an oval race and be absolute pants. Before you all start shouting that Schumacher is the best driver ever!!! I don't believe that he would be but there is no evidence otherwise.

I believe that we should really get alon, both series have good points and both series have bad points. Now why fight? its all racing in the end. threads like this generally denigrate into my pram is bigger than your pram.

F1 people, you are not going to convince Cart fans that their series is second rate , full of easy ovals and rubbish drivers and generally not worth watching.
while
Cart fans you are not going to convince F1 fans that there series is boring, uncompetitive, worse than watching paint dry and that oval racing is good.

And probably me as a fan of both is going to get pelters from all sides now

[BARnone]

LB - How can you say Villeneuve was not dominant in CART? He was rookie of year in '94 and CART champion in '95 (before the IRL hi-jinx) and was driving against some pretty talented people.

Are you using some yardstick for measuring success in CART that I am not aware of?

BARnone

[RJL]

Originally posted by baddog


find a SUCCESFUL F1 driver who went to cart as a matter of career choice when a competitive F1 seat was available (you know.. like Andretti, Villeneueve, Zanardi, Montoya in reverse). then Ill be convinced.

Sorry.. just taking the piss as is my role in life

Shaun

Baddog:

Read your own question. You can put any spin you want on Mansell's departure from Williams, but the fact remains that NIGEL CHOSE TO LEAVE WILLIAMS, the best seat in F1. You can say that Frank "manipulated him into inevitable resignation" (how can anybody possibly know that's true?) or "the voices'' that made him do it, it really doesn't matter.

You don't think you that might be giving a "serious misrepresentation of the facts" here, just for the sake of argument, do you? Face it. Nigel is that example you were so sure didn't exist.

[RJL]

Originally posted by baddog
You make it sound like after winning the WDC he thought "oh.. I could stay here and win the WDC again, but no thats been done now, what shall I do now for a challenge.. oh yes CART, thats a step up and no mistake murray..". Hardly I think you will find a fair representation of what went on.

Shaun [/B]

Hey that is a pile of rubbish and NOT AT ALL WHAT I SAID! I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. I said that Nigel was unhappy with the money Frank was offering, and chose to go to the States. Big difference.

When you're discussing a point with someone, you should try to respond to what they're saying rather than making up a bunch of BS and then suggesting they said that.