66 replies to this topic

[Michael Ferner]

Yes, it was an article about the upcoming ARS debut at Phoenix that jogged my memory here. I do recall discussions at the time, and think I ran into an article in a Milwaukee paper mentioning the abortive race that year, but I don't recall many details. So, it was not only lack of entries, but lack of promoters as well? Bit surprising, I'd have imagined CART to have had a bit more clout back then.

It's interesting to read Pat Patrick's comments that year, about bringing more American drivers to the series, and reducing the relative costs of racing. Not unlike Tony George, when he introduced his "CART B series" ten years later.

[Leif Snellman]

Remember the 1961 Intercontinental Formula?  Died after two races I think.

Edited by Leif Snellman, 01 April 2016 - 16:41.

[RA Historian]

Yes, it was an article about the upcoming ARS debut at Phoenix that jogged my memory here. I do recall discussions at the time, and think I ran into an article in a Milwaukee paper mentioning the abortive race that year, but I don't recall many details. So, it was not only lack of entries, but lack of promoters as well? Bit surprising, I'd have imagined CART to have had a bit more clout back then.

Yes, Milwaukee was scheduled to be the first in the series, but when only two cars entered, the plug was pulled. As far as lack of promoters, I believe that the contracts between promoter and series, at least back then, had escape clauses dealing with the number of entries.

 

Tom

[Graham Clayton]

The 1981 "World Federation of Motorsport" Formula 1 series quietly faded away after the one and only race - the 1981 South African Grand Prix at Kyalami.

[sabrejet]

How about Interactive GT (or did I imagine that?)

 

Also ProSport 3000: what happened to that?

 

There was also a British Group C (C2) championship circa 1990 that can't have lasted more than a season. 

[chunder27]

C2 lasted quite a while I think, Tim Harvey won it once I think, maybe Ian Harrower aswell for some reason I recall!! Or was I wrong the Texas car?  Didn't that team win it?

[opplock]

British C2 did last a few years. Prosport 3000 also lasted a few years without ever really attracting large grids. When announced they claimed that 70+ drivers were interested. I knew one of them. His interest ended when his wife overheard me ask him whether he was aware of the estimated costs - £50,000 for the car and £50,000 a year to run it. About 5 times what he spent racing Caterhams.

 

 Interactive Sportscar never got off the ground although I seem to recall that one race was held. I can't remember the exact figures but seem to recall that the BRSCC lost a lot of money having invested in the series.

[Thundersports]

C2 lasted quite a while I think, Tim Harvey won it once I think, maybe Ian Harrower aswell for some reason I recall!! Or was I wrong the Texas car?  Didn't that team win it?

Tim Harvey drove the Istel backed Spice Se89 in the series alongside Lawrence Bristow/Duncain Bain and won it it 1989.The Texas car was Richard Piper/Mike Youles Spice Se89.

 

As I saw it the BRDC C2 series was in competition with John Webbs Thundersports series which finished off that series in 1989 having hoovered up all the C2 cars. The BRDC only lasted a further season before it to died. Had there just been one ie Thundersports we would of had our own Interserie championship which would have been sustainable! There's still nowhere for single seat Can-am cars to race since........

[Thundersports]

British C2 did last a few years. Prosport 3000 also lasted a few years without ever really attracting large grids. When announced they claimed that 70+ drivers were interested. I knew one of them. His interest ended when his wife overheard me ask him whether he was aware of the estimated costs - £50,000 for the car and £50,000 a year to run it. About 5 times what he spent racing Caterhams.

 

 Interactive Sportscar never got off the ground although I seem to recall that one race was held. I can't remember the exact figures but seem to recall that the BRSCC lost a lot of money having invested in the series.

A friend tested a Pro-sport in it's early days and said the main problem was it didn't have enough power to pull a skin off a rice pudding! They sounded crap as well........

Guess who ran the interactive sportscar sham; a Mr Chappell who had some dealings with BHS I believe. ;-)

[sabrejet]

Nice to see references to BRDC Gp C2 and Thundersports: I do feel that both could have co-existed, with Thundersports more for historics and C2 for current, or as they were soon to become, C2 cars with no world championship.

 

Eventually they too would have become 'historic', but I still think there is, as you say, a big need for a series catering for second-era Can-Am as well as all those C2 cars.

 

...and soon-to-become obsolete open-top LMS cars. 

[chunder27]

And here we are as fans thinking it's a modern for series to try and co-exist and nick drivers off one another!

 

I do remember the Prosport 3000 cars, you still see them now and then turn up in Euro hillclimb meetings, but now as then they always look slow and ponderous and that engine always has been as flat as a wotsit unless you turbocharge it.

 

I am sure the chassis could cope with more, perhaps a lovely old GAA V6 or even a basis DFV. Sure someone somewhere must have done either!

 

Wasn't it basically a Granada lump, but the 24v one?

[sabrejet]

Granada lump! I'm glad you said that because it was my memory too, but just sounded wrong somehow.

 

Difficult to see how you could end up at £50,000 a year to run in the championship. On the odd occasion they turned up in force, I found them reasonably interesting to watch, but I think they were fundamentally too conservative in concept to excite drivers or fans. 

[chunder27]

The Ford V6 was a hideous engine really, am amazed Capri's in BTDCC did so well with them, was heavy, hard to tune and not that good when you did!  Think the Prosport cars used the later Scorpio 24v version which was a bit better, bit pretty much like sticking a cherry on dog food and calling it a gourmet meal.

 

I don't think I have ever seen one driven hard in all this time!

 

I enjoyed BRDC C2, some interesting cars, and some good variety. But I think sportscars just got out of hand. as earlier guys have said, you couldn't see CanAM series anywhere other than almost Libre races or Historic series, which is a crying shame

[Thundersports]

There was a plan about 10 years ago to have a European series to run alongside EuroBoss along the same rules as Thundersports. As ever with these things the biggest obstacle was the cost of running cars such as the Ferrari 333sp etc.

[Thundersports]

And here we are as fans thinking it's a modern for series to try and co-exist and nick drivers off one another!

 

I do remember the Prosport 3000 cars, you still see them now and then turn up in Euro hillclimb meetings, but now as then they always look slow and ponderous and that engine always has been as flat as a wotsit unless you turbocharge it.

 

I am sure the chassis could cope with more, perhaps a lovely old GAA V6 or even a basis DFV. Sure someone somewhere must have done either!

 

Wasn't it basically a Granada lump, but the 24v one?

If you wanted a budget but big bang for you money a tuned 5L Rover V8 would have been a far better choice. Brands had a tie-up with Ford at the time; a dealership at the circuit and all there other spec cars used Ford power. As the 24V Cosworth tuned engine could be silenced easily it meant it could run at club meetings with noise limits which is about all it did, although there was a Le Man entry in the late 90s!

[Graham Clayton]

Didn't Formula Classic expire after a couple of races? And Formula Talbot also ran out of steam?

On the 9th of October 1994 Tom Wheatcroft announced at Donington that his Formula Classic Championship would happen in 1995. The championship would run during six meetings, with two races at each meeting. The races would be held at Zolder, Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Nurburgring, Nogaro and Donington. All cars were powered by a 2.5 litre Holbay engine, producing 280bhp. The first race of the Championship was held the weekend of 7th and 8th of May 1995 at Donington. The third and fourth race of the season would be held the 24th and 25th of June, also at Donington. Unfortunatly, 7 cars retired due to problems with the Holbay engine, which was enough of a concern for Wheatcroft that he cancelled the series. The series was resurrected for 1997 using Millington engines that were fitted with Cosworth YB heads, but a race was never held.

[john aston]

I wasted 20 minutes watching a Formula Classic race at Donington.We have much to be grateful to Tom Wheatcroft for but this wasn't it. A poor tribute act with duff  sound. I'm sure if they'd used the maligned Ford V6 it'd have been an improvement. I'm no engineer so can't comment  on the technical qualities of the Essex V6 - but what I can say is that in competition from it sounded wonderful, if not as lovely as the Weslake modified Cologne 3100 V6 , which sounded more like a Ferrari than many Ferraris .