41 replies to this topic

[Red17]

Now that Friday 13th (and racing) are gone I figured we could discuss the occult of motorsport.
No, we are not going to discuss the souls stored in Bernie's contracts. That belongs to the White Collar thread, tho I would like to see Mythbusters trying to bust the Bernie myth.

Back to topic. Every sport has it, and motorsports are no different.
I used to think there was little room for superstitions on a sport that relies so much on mechanics, engineering and driving skill. But it turns out there are some odd antics going as well in motorsport.
A few years ago I was amazed how detailed the wikipedia entry for the Andretti Curse was. It's quite an extensive list of things I never payed much attention. And the thing keeps going by the looks of Marco's career. Other examples include: the number 13 being vacant in Formula 1 for decades now and no one seems aware there is a number 13; that apparently no one wants number 1 in Nascar; Drivers sticking to odd or even numbers; Macca screwing up pit stops.

Any other antics worth of mention?

Edited by Red17, 16 April 2012 - 12:23.

[August]

A Finn has never won a GP in Italy. Thinking e.g. about Imola and Monza in '99, that almost seems like a curse.

[karne]

that apparently no one wants number 1 in Nascar; Drivers sticking to odd or even numbers; Macca screwing up pit stops.

Martin Truex Jr was 1 last year, I'm sure of it.

[Red17]

Martin Truex Jr was 1 last year, I'm sure of it.

What about the claim made by a user that it brings bad luck?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Uh, there's definitely a #1 in NASCAR

[karne]

What about the claim made by a user that it brings bad luck?

I didn't see that Truex had any abnormally bad luck.

Really, you could make that claim of any number. Marcos has had a terribly unlucky start to the season, is the number 9 bad luck now? JPM hit the jet dryer, is 42 unlucky?

[Risil]

Rossi put a curse on Gibernau, famously. He probably tried the same thing on Biaggi but didn't succeed because Max is a close friend of Lucifer's.

Nigel Roebuck said once that Denis Jenkinson (famous motorsports journalist and 1949 Sidecar world champion (passenger) ) had been known to curse drivers from the pitwall.

The fact is that a curse is only a curse if you've got someone to curse you. Who cursed Mario? It must've been pretty serious because it seems to have been inherited by his children and his children's children.

Edited by Risil, 16 April 2012 - 12:07.

[Markn93]

I'm pretty sure Lewis stopped talking to Martin Brundle on the grid after the 2007 season when every time he did, something bad would happen. (This was also mentioned in his interview on Top Gear with JC ).

[Red17]

Who cursed Mario? It must've been pretty serious because it seems to have been inherited by his children and his children's children.

That's one of the things no one has tried to explain.
The wikipedia article mentions a kiss, which in itself seems rather harmless and totally unrelated.
I suspect not even Mario himself can find a valid reason for such cursing. Of couse one could always say it was a rival driver.

[engel]

A while back Coulthard would only race wearing a specific pair of boxer shorts. Understandably after a few years they weren't in the best state

And Wurtz used to always race wearing 2 different colored boots

And Schumi only wants odd numbered cars

[gm914]

inb4benettoncurse

[g1n]

And Schumi only wants odd numbered cars

Because it means you will be "number one" driver in any team this way.

[engel]

Because it means you will be "number one" driver in any team this way.

that only works for the first 6 teams in last year's championship. From the 7th down the even number is the "lower" number since there is no number 13 car. Sauber for example races #14 and #15 this season.

[midgrid]

The number 17 is unlucky in Italy, which has also influenced Formula One due to the strong historic presence of Italian teams and drivers. I think I remember Nigel Stepney, as a Ferrari employee, saying that components numbered "17" were considered to be unlucky.

[Radoye]

The number 17 is unlucky in Italy, which has also influenced Formula One due to the strong historic presence of Italian teams and drivers. I think I remember Nigel Stepney, as a Ferrari employee, saying that components numbered "17" were considered to be unlucky.

This stems from the destruction of the Roman XVII Legion at Teutoburg Forest. The Romans never again used No.17 for naming a military unit after that.


Another interesting superstition was the so-called "Williams Curse" saying that no driver who drove for Williams would achieve success with any other team in their subsequent F1 career. And it held true for a while, no ex-Williams drivers even World Champions managed to repeat their success after leaving the team - until Button won a WDC with Brawn in 2009.

So it seems that "curse" has been lifted.

[loki]

What about the claim made by a user that it brings bad luck?

You may be referring to a comment I made but it wasn't that I thought it jinxed the next season, it's that some drivers think running the #1 the season after the championship is bad luck. You don't see that in US circle track because even at the local level the car branding, livery, driver identity and number are cornerstones of the branding of the team. Unlike F1, each car is a team. McLaren have one team, two drivers, identical liveries and branding with the emphasis on the team. Hendrick Motorsports has four teams, four drivers, each with a unique brand and identity. It's a part of US motorsport that I don't think Ecclestone or some of our other friends here on the forum completely grok.

The colpr green is thought by some to be bad luck.

Eating peanuts in the garage area is thought by some to be bad luck.

I'm not superstitious but I do have a ritual when I get into the car that started in karting. Once I'm strapped in and ready to roll off, I tap my helmeted forehead twice with the end of my fisted right hand. Don't know why, it's just what I do.

Mario's (or the Andretti family in general) curse is specifically for the Indianapolis 500. Otherwise Mario had a stellar career, Micheal did very well and was the winningest driver in CART of all time and has led the most CART laps of all time. Second only to his father. If that's not a curse I don't know what is. With poor Marco it must have skipped a generation. Marco isn't cursed, he's just an average driver.

Edited by loki, 16 April 2012 - 16:16.

[midgrid]

This stems from the destruction of the Roman XVII Legion at Teutoburg Forest. The Romans never again used No.17 for naming a military unit after that.

Thanks! You learn something new every day.

[engel]

Eating peanuts in the garage area is thought by some to be bad luck.

Actually, this is a bit funnier than that. Eating peanuts with shells is considered bad luck (legend has it they were finding peanut shells in the wrecks from some very very early races. Shelled peanuts themselves are fine.

[Markn93]

Actually, this is a bit funnier than that. Eating peanuts with shells is considered bad luck (legend has it they were finding peanut shells in the wrecks from some very very early races. Shelled peanuts themselves are fine.

Good to know

[Rob G]

that apparently no one wants number 1 in Nascar;

Indycar, not NASCAR, but even then it's not true for everybody. Number 1 hasn't been used in several years, but we could see it used next year depending on who wins the championship.

[OfficeLinebacker]

apparently no one wants number 1 in Nascar;

Jamie Mac, while not doing super well, won both Daytona and Indianapolis in the same year driving the #1 and doesn't do terrible.

The #13 Geico car is admittedly fighting to escape also-ran status in the Cup series.

[midgrid]

The colpr green is thought by some to be bad luck.

I found a TNF thread on the subject. Oh dear, my road car is green! I wonder if BRG is an exception to this belief?

[Rob]

It's ridiculous that the No. 13 isn't allocated in Formula One. We're in the 21st century now, it's time to grow up and ditch the silly superstition.

[ensign14]

This stems from the destruction of the Roman XVII Legion at Teutoburg Forest. The Romans never again used No.17 for naming a military unit after that.

Trouble with that is that the SPQR also "retired" Legiones XVIII and XIX as well, but I don't know of any superstitions around 18 and 19. Osella had numbers 17/18 for a season, just as unsuccessful as they were with every other number.

It's ridiculous that the No. 13 isn't allocated in Formula One. We're in the 21st century now, it's time to grow up and ditch the silly superstition.

Quite. Can't understand why 13 is pariahed. It's safer than practically every other number...

[engel]

Trouble with that is that the SPQR also "retired" Legiones XVIII and XIX as well, but I don't know of any superstitions around 18 and 19. Osella had numbers 17/18 for a season, just as unsuccessful as they were with every other number.

AFAIK the number 17 isn't considered unlucky because of the Legion, it's considered unlucky cause an anagram of XVII spells VIXI which translates to I have lived (implying I am dead) which was a common inscription in tombstones.

Edited by engel, 16 April 2012 - 20:35.

[PayasYouRace]

Another interesting superstition was the so-called "Williams Curse" saying that no driver who drove for Williams would achieve success with any other team in their subsequent F1 career. And it held true for a while, no ex-Williams drivers even World Champions managed to repeat their success after leaving the team - until Button won a WDC with Brawn in 2009.

So it seems that "curse" has been lifted.

I'd say Martin Brundle broke that curse.

If he doesn't count as he was only a one-time substitute, then it would have to be David Coulthard.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well, how about Nico Rosberg.

[Longtimefan]

Francois Cevert was told by a fortune teller that he wouldn't live to 30.
He was killed in an horrific crash aged just 29.

Killed on the 6th October, in car 6, chassis 006, engine 66.

Edited by Longtimefan, 16 April 2012 - 22:38.

[PayasYouRace]

You can't break a curse that's already been broken Ross.

Nico Rosberg and Mark Webber have both achieved more success after their Williams days though. We wait to see what the future brings for Nico Hulkenberg, Pastor Maldonado and Bruno Senna.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Williams were a top team for such a long time that if you left/got fired, of course you were going to have slightly worse results at your next team.

[plastik2k9]

It's ridiculous that the No. 13 isn't allocated in Formula One. We're in the 21st century now, it's time to grow up and ditch the silly superstition.

It is rather bizarre. I found out recently that One Canada Square, Canary Wharf in London, has no 13th floor at all. The numbering goes from 12 to 14. And apparently this is common practice globally when it comes to buildings.

[karne]

The colpr green is thought by some to be bad luck.

This is interesting for me, because I know green is considered unlucky in figure skating, too. It's a known superstition that if you wear green at a Championships, (Worlds, Euros, 4CC, or Olympics) you will most likely fall and if you are wearing blue or black you're more likely to win. For that reason, you almost NEVER see a skater wearing green at a championships.

(It is also considered pig-headed to wear gold and ominous to wear silver.)

[A Day In The Life]

Who was the F1 driver (late 80s?) that used to wear his gloves inside out "for luck"?

[ensign14]

Who was the F1 driver (late 80s?) that used to wear his gloves inside out "for luck"?

Stefano Modena.

[Faupa]

Now that Friday 13th (and racing) are gone I figured we could discuss the occult of motorsport.
No, we are not going to discuss the souls stored in Bernie's contracts. That belongs to the White Collar thread, tho I would like to see Mythbusters trying to bust the Bernie myth.

Back to topic. Every sport has it, and motorsports are no different.
I used to think there was little room for superstitions on a sport that relies so much on mechanics, engineering and driving skill. But it turns out there are some odd antics going as well in motorsport.
A few years ago I was amazed how detailed the wikipedia entry for the Andretti Curse was. It's quite an extensive list of things I never payed much attention. And the thing keeps going by the looks of Marco's career. Other examples include: the number 13 being vacant in Formula 1 for decades now and no one seems aware there is a number 13; that apparently no one wants number 1 in Nascar; Drivers sticking to odd or even numbers; Macca screwing up pit stops.

Any other antics worth of mention?

Stephano Modena would reverse his driving gloves and only enter the car from the left side. He claimed that the gloves were due to poverty. Alexander Wurz wore different coloured racing boots for a "marketing advantage" Alan Jones and I belive David coulthard both had "lucky underpants"

As I sit here writing this I am looking at a photo of David Coulthard on a large screen telvision being watched by a Bridgestone technician as he oulthard crashes out of the Australian Grand prix. Next to it is a photo of David Coulthard crashing out in the Brazilian Grand Prix in the Wings of Life car. These werre the first and last GPs of DC's final year of Grand prix. Apparently the lucky underpants did not work!

[Dmitriy_Guller]

It is rather bizarre. I found out recently that One Canada Square, Canary Wharf in London, has no 13th floor at all. The numbering goes from 12 to 14. And apparently this is common practice globally when it comes to buildings.

It's not necessarily a reflection on the building owner's superstition, but rather the superstitions of the people occupying the building. If people really don't want to live or work on 13th floor, your profits suffer. Near where I live, the new condo buildings that were built don't include any floors ending with a 4 either, because they expected a lot of Asian buyers, and 4 is unlucky number in those cultures.

As for drivers, I can understand the superstition somewhat. You need supreme confidence to drive at the limit, and if there is any nagging feeling that you're doing something that brings bad luck, even if you know it in your mind to be silly, that can eat at you subconsciously. If it doesn't cost much to avoid it, then why not just avoid it? That's why superstitions persist, it usually doesn't cost much to be superstitious.

[BackmarkerUK]

Doesn't Vettel only wear a helmet until he wins wearing it? Got through a lot of helmets last year, but he's been wearing this one since Abu Dhabi. I don't know if it's superstition or only having too much money.

[ensign14]

Near where I live, the new condo buildings that were built don't include any floors ending with a 4 either, because they expected a lot of Asian buyers, and 4 is unlucky number in those cultures.

It's because in e.g. Mandarin the syllable for "death" and "four" is "si". And "fourteen" and "I want to die" are both "yao si", so 14 is often avoided.

For similar reasons 8 is lucky - rhymes with the word for "wealth".

[karne]

Doesn't Vettel only wear a helmet until he wins wearing it? Got through a lot of helmets last year, but he's been wearing this one since Abu Dhabi. I don't know if it's superstition or only having too much money.

I think he wore three different ones in Australia, so there goes that theory.

[BackmarkerUK]

I think he wore three different ones in Australia, so there goes that theory.

You're right about Australia, but he does apparently retire his helmet designs when he wins in them: from YallaF1

[chdphd]

Vettel also changed his helmet designs between sessions in China.

Michael Schumacher had a lucky pendant he always wears. You can even buy a replica:

http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B004TFXGW6

[joshb]

I don't kow about anyone else but I always try and react to the lights going off before the start, maybe tap my foot on the floor as if I'm hitting the throttle reacting to the lights going out.
That must count as a superstition albeit an odd one!

Also , in 2010 I always thought there was a curse on Vettel leading the standings!
Bahrain the car packed up when he was leading
Australia same when he would've lead the standings
He was 2nd on countback after Monaco i think
Turkey roll bar broke in qualy and collided with Webber going for the lead
Hungary looked set to take the lead but then the penalty dropped him down
Korea looked set to take the lead before engine failure

Good job the curse lifted at the last possible opportunity.

Edited by joshb, 17 April 2012 - 14:11.