34 replies to this topic

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

I'm sort of tired of the "being clear of the turn 1 schlemozzle, poll leader opens up an impossible gap in the first 2 laps" races. How many recent races have *not* been of this ilk?

Maybe I need more coffee, but remind me again why we can't have DRS enabled against the leader after the first lap, or *during* the first lap* be default?

[Seanspeed]

Cuz DRS is meant to help a following car that is faster than the one in front, reducing the disadvantage of the turbulent wake a car they follow through a corner.

If the guy in front is faster, though, then they have every right to pull away.

Edited by Seanspeed, 17 April 2012 - 15:51.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

I think its more to do with there being a tighter field at the start of the race, colder tyres and brakes hence a DRS related incident being more likely.

Imagine slimstreaming someone with DRS - an extra 20kph - and then going into a hair pin with tyres and brakes not fully up to optimal temperatures.

[engel]

I'm sort of tired of the "being clear of the turn 1 schlemozzle, poll leader opens up an impossible gap in the first 2 laps" races. How many recent races have *not* been of this ilk?

Maybe I need more coffee, but remind me again why we can't have DRS enabled against the leader after the first lap, or *during* the first lap* be default?

cause it would be chaos with 15 cars trying to DRS past each other

[Cavani]

they dont enable DRS on first 2 laps because the cars are already very close to each other and then all 23 cars will use the DRS

[Seanspeed]

they dont enable DRS on first 2 laps because the cars are already very close to each other and then all 23 cars will use the DRS

Which as we saw in the last race, just means the DRS cancels out for everyone. I dont think it would necessarily lead to more accidents or anything.

A lot of passing goes on in the first lap, but its true the guy out in front has it easiest as there's no time where they might have to back off on a corner to stop from hitting somebody in front or anything like that. But you know what? Why shouldn't they have it easiest? Pole position/leading a race should come with priveledges. Its a long race so saying that a driver can pull an impossible gap within the first laps is just wrong. If the guy in 2nd cant keep up, then why should they get a boost? DRS wasn't meant to help a car that cant keep up with one in front. The guy in 2nd needs to up his game, close back down on the leader and if he can do that and prove he is as fast or faster, THEN he can have the help of DRS to try and make a move.

[johnap]

If they're going to keep DRS they should let them use it anywhere and anytime they like in the race but limit the amount of times they can use it.

[Lights]

When reading the first post all that comes up is: 'what do you have against the leader?'.

As a fan, I don't miss DRS at all in the first lap. Let the mayhem sort itself out a bit before this tool becomes available. Afterall it's the same for everybody.

The only annoying thing is that once DRS starts becoming available, there's between one and two laps of replays. But that's for another thread.

[Stormsky68]

DRS was introduced to artificially increase overtaking, and help F1 appeal to the masses

The spectacle would not be enhanced by allowing DRS from the off, there is already plenty of action in the first lap.

Besides it might just encourage some numpty to try using it on a corner with cold tyres, and put half the field in the gravel

[Baddoer]

Because they won't

[sofarapartguy]

It would be a DRS madness. Almost all cars with opened RW and huuuuuge mess under braking with cold brakes and tires = 100% Safety car on lap 1, would you like it?

[Seanspeed]

It would be a DRS madness. Almost all cars with opened RW and huuuuuge mess under braking with cold brakes and tires = 100% Safety car on lap 1, would you like it?

Perhaps I have too high of an opinion of professional racing drivers, but do you really think an extra 10-15kph going into the braking zone is too much for these guys to handle?

[sofarapartguy]

Perhaps I have too high of an opinion of professional racing drivers, but do you really think an extra 10-15kph going into the braking zone is too much for these guys to handle?

I bet you'll always find at least one who'd miss the braking point and play the same game as did Liuzzi in Monza'11.

[Seanspeed]

I bet you'll always find at least one who'd miss the braking point and play the same game as did Liuzzi in Monza'11.

They can practice their braking points with cold tires/brakes on Friday and Saturday, but Sunday is a new day and the conditions are often different enough that it makes it a slight guessing game no matter what. This sort of problem has existed for years and years, well before DRS came about.

[sofarapartguy]

They can practice their braking points with cold tires/brakes on Friday and Saturday, but Sunday is a new day and the conditions are often different enough that it makes it a slight guessing game no matter what. This sort of problem has existed for years and years, well before DRS came about.

When you are about to TAKE THE LEAD with only one move, or gain a couple of crutial positions, you'll brake as soon as possible - thus chances of making Spa'98 are much higher compairing to FP or even Quali.

Drivers don't practice braking with DRS on full tanks - only a couple of times at the end of FP2 I believe.

Edited by sofarapartguy, 17 April 2012 - 21:47.

[Seanspeed]

When you are about to TAKE THE LEAD with only one move, or gain a couple of crutial positions, you'll brake as soon as possible - thus chances of making Spa'98 are much higher compairing to FP or even Quali.

Drivers don't practice braking with DRS on full tanks - only a couple of times at the end of FP2 I believe.

My point is that the problem of kind of 'guessing' your braking point on cold tires/brakes exists with or without DRS. Drivers may not practice their braking points with DRS on every fuel level(though some clever ones might, whether in free practice or more easily in a simulator), but they can get an idea of how much to put their braking points back to compensate. I dont feel I'm giving them too much credit there. If somebody overshoots their braking point, you cant just blame DRS because drivers have been doing the same thing for decades.

[jrg19]

Wouldn't it just create a massive train of cars all using DRS?

[jondon]

Why can`t we just get rid of the poxy DRS?

[sofarapartguy]

Wouldn't it just create a massive train of cars all using DRS?

Yeah, will be situation like NASCAR - leading after the first corner means you are finishing the lap on P2 after being jumped on the straight.

[Bartel]

The only tweak I would make is let it be available on the second lap rather than the third. Same when safety car pulls off.

[SirRacer]

I like that cars behind do have an advantage over the ones in front

It was the other way arround in the last decades (since aerodynamics came in), the car in front always had advantage because was in clear air with no air disturing its aerodynamics, also had clear view and could push harder.

If this is a racing show, we should encourage racing, by giving advantage to those that are behind you accomplish that, and after all, it's not unfair, because if the 1st driver falls to 2nd place, then it will be the 2nd place that will have advantage over 1st place, after all the faster driver wins...

Edited by SirRacer, 17 April 2012 - 23:43.

[ViMaMo]

It would unleash hell, cold tyres and cars packed in tightly. maybe it could be interesting but then safety concerns take precedence.

[anbeck]

I don't want to ruin your party, but the OP talks about opening the DRS 'against the leader' only.

And you keep discussing 23 cars running with DRS.

I doubt that we will have 23 cars within 1 second of the leader, though.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

I don't want to ruin your party, but the OP talks about opening the DRS 'against the leader' only.

And you keep discussing 23 cars running with DRS.

I doubt that we will have 23 cars within 1 second of the leader, though.

But the same rule would apply; if you are #2 and want to use DRS immediately, then surely that option should be available to all the others too. It's a standard rule applied to all the drivers.

[CoolBreeze]

They are being silly. They should allow DRS everywhere in the circuit, and from the first lap itself. Imagine the lead changing 3 times before the first lap finishes! That's a classic.

[One]

...

DRS is illegal in its definition, but made acceptable due TV show. So what sense does it make to allow it to happen when a race develop in close cue. Current rule is OK.

BTW, I kinda hope they wil ditch DRS ASAP. The rule still says no movable aero parts big, laud and clear. Everyon can read it. Instead, I shout for teams to harvest all E-Energy achievable when it is braking. It wil lopenup whole new enegineering differences.

Edited by One, 18 April 2012 - 09:09.

[CoolBreeze]

...

DRS is illegal in its definition, but made acceptable due TV show. So what sense does it make to allow it to happen when a race develop in close cue. Current rule is OK.

BTW, I kinda hope they wil ditch DRS ASAP. The rule still says no movable aero parts big, laud and clear. Everyon can read it. Instead, I shout for teams to harvest all E-Energy achievable when it is braking. It wil lopenup whole new enegineering differences.

I think we will see this Eco thing in Le Mans pretty soon.

As for the no DRS, simple. Back to V10s, unlimited revs. Limited aero. Big fat sticky tyres.

[Bartel]

I think we will see this Eco thing in Le Mans pretty soon.

As for the no DRS, simple. Back to V10s, unlimited revs. Limited aero. Big fat sticky tyres.

Not in this day and age unfortunately

[Brandz07]

I think it'd be unfair that someone fights as hard as possible to get pole, then on the first lap he's got 23 cars behind him using DRS :/

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

I'm talking about relative to the *leader in the first lap*. How many "races" have we had post-DRS where the LEADER has actually had to race to get there? It's been great for entertainment in the pack, but what's the point if it allows the pole sitter to troll around the track the whole race?

It's bad enough the "race" has become a tire endurance test, but if I were a sponsor of a "winning" car I'd be pissed off if the only time it was on camera was at the start and finish. Did they even show Rosberg in China? I don't think the leader in the first lap should be able to look forward to just managing his tires for the rest of the race, I think he should be fighting to stay there just as 2nd place has to worry about 3rd, etc. It doesn't make any sense.

It wouldn't be *on* the first lap, but the second lap when they actually come into the DRS zone.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

I think it'd be unfair that someone fights as hard as possible to get pole, then on the first lap he's got 23 cars behind him using DRS :/

"It's unfair that someone fights hard to get P2, and then he's got 22 cars behind him using DRS :/"
"It's unfair that someone fights hard to get P3, and then he's got 21 cars behind him using DRS :/"

(repeat)

It's unfair that the fastest car and the fastest driver then gets another advantage by being the only car allowed to build up a gap over 2 laps WITHOUT having to worry about DRS. Pole position is the gift itself, it's not like it's some magical accomplishment that the driver is annointed with in order to gain an unfair advantage. Otherwise you may as well say pole position is the winner and just go home before running the RACE.

[Seanspeed]

"It's unfair that someone fights hard to get P2, and then he's got 22 cars behind him using DRS :/"
"It's unfair that someone fights hard to get P3, and then he's got 21 cars behind him using DRS :/"

(repeat)

It's unfair that the fastest car and the fastest driver then gets another advantage by being the only car allowed to build up a gap over 2 laps WITHOUT having to worry about DRS. Pole position is the gift itself, it's not like it's some magical accomplishment that the driver is annointed with in order to gain an unfair advantage. Otherwise you may as well say pole position is the winner and just go home before running the RACE.

Fastest car on Saturday isn't always fastest car on Sunday.

I dont know what else to say really. You seem to not like the entire premise of how racing works, so maybe pick up a different sport.

[Koen]

Hamilton is just another driver who gets penalty for changing gearbox - suddenly this is the most unfair rule in F1.
Hamilton can't keep up with pole sitter right from the start - suddenly we need a rule that gives an advantage to everyone except pole sitter.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

Fastest car on Saturday isn't always fastest car on Sunday.

I dont know what else to say really. You seem to not like the entire premise of how racing works, so maybe pick up a different sport.

Sorry, you've missed my point entirely.

[Rubens Hakkamacher]

I think its more to do with there being a tighter field at the start of the race, colder tyres and brakes hence a DRS related incident being more likely.

With that line of thinking it wouldn't make sense to a do a standing start for the same reasons.