17347 replies to this topic

[ashnathan]

heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?

on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.

[bogi]

Moose evolution

[hunnylander]

heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?

on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.

'Wings formed from the body/sidepod', this was what I was dreaming about, when the Moose came out. Maybe my brainwaves were too strong.

[TeamMacca]

Somebody create an MP4 -27 Rumour Thread

L

[The Polemic]

'Wings formed from the body/sidepod', this was what I was dreaming about, when the Moose came out. Maybe my brainwaves were too strong.

Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?

[robybobey]

I'm excited already!

[bogi]

If they copy Williams gearbox they can put exhausts and hot air exit above gearbox and blow it all beneath beam wing.

It's over 9000 downforce points (according to my calculations).

[Atreiu]

Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?

I second the request.

[ViMaMo]

Would love to see William's skeleton rear on the Mclaren with good results.

[Owen]

The only thing I do know is that there will be some carry over of the design from the 26. There's been acknowledgement of that.

[John Player]

Sounds epic!!!

[glorius&victorius]

heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?

on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.

which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?

[glorius&victorius]

Would love to see William's skeleton rear on the Mclaren with good results.

indeed maybe sam michael can have a chat with the technical design team

[robybobey]

The original posts stating this are here:

rumour has it that they will be radical next year no sidepods as such but the rad ducts on the side of the tub like a jump jet looking head on then wings covering the side impact structures

rumour is from 1 of their windtunnel guys apparantly although i got it 2nd hand so cant be too sure if its just a trial part or actual design but i hope its used as the test results are supposed to be really good

[Richard T]

heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?

on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.

Somthing like this?

[ArtShelley]

If true (a big IF):

a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?

b) I wish they would stop trying something so tricky and just go about developing a fundamentally good car without resorting to magic bullets, especially given that EBD is effectively banned from next year.

[SNiko]

Can somebody visualize this?

[johnmhinds]

So it's going to be a reverse of the moose design with the inlets on the inside?

[loki0420]

If true (a big IF):

a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?

b) I wish they would stop trying something so tricky and just go about developing a fundamentally good car without resorting to magic bullets, especially given that EBD is effectively banned from next year.

Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff though

[Bloggsworth]

which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?

Sopwith Pup?

[robybobey]

Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff though

Someone who works in the windtunnel at McLaren did apparently...

[Andy865]

Lets hope it doesn't turn out like the eurofighter 'typhoon becuase it was supposed be called 2000 but its ten years late' Or that god awful overhyped money burner the F35.

[wingwalker]

Can somebody visualize this?

Impossible, they're gonna use the technology they were testing in the winter of 2008 (9?) - livery is going to be transparent.

[Ferrari2183]

Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff though

These rumours are just a starting point for discussion... As next year draws closer more solid details will emerge. I suppose you brushed the rumour aside that the McLaren will have L-shaped sidepods last year as well.

I, for one, don't brush aside any information.

Back on topic... McLaren have made it a habit of bringing something radical to their new cars lately. Good luck.

[SNiko]

a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?

It is unlikely but possible. F-Duct was revealed by one of the McLaren's engineers in Autumn 2009 at most popular F1 technical forum. Later this guy was fired.

[loki0420]

Someone who works in the windtunnel at McLaren did apparently...

I remember a guy who talked about "dead zone" prior to mp4-25, it didnt end up well, so i believe its not very clever to do the same thing. Anyway even in rumour it doesnt say that McLaren will be like that just an assumption what could be tried in tunnel so kind of blurry topic to make any sort of conclusion

[hunnylander]

Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?

I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....



...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.


Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;

Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):

Edited by hunnylander, 14 September 2011 - 15:09.

[hunnylander]

I remember a guy who talked about "dead zone" prior to mp4-25, it didnt end up well, so i believe its not very clever to do the same thing. Anyway even in rumour it doesnt say that McLaren will be like that just an assumption what could be tried in tunnel so kind of blurry topic to make any sort of conclusion

The dead zone rumour was about the F-Duct anyway. It must be deemed as true rumour as it described the F-Duct in broad terms.

[wingwalker]

It is unlikely but possible. F-Duct was revealed by one of the McLaren's engineers in Autumn 2009 at most popular F1 technical forum. Later this guy was fired.

For real?!

[loki0420]

The dead zone rumour was about the F-Duct anyway. It must be deemed as true rumour as it described the F-Duct in broad terms.

Yes, i know that.;) i was thinking it would be damn stupid for anyone else in company to reveal such details as precedent was made.

[King Six]

Somthing like this?

Or maybe more like the F310. Except the intakes are close/right next to the main chassis.



I don't know, it'll probably not be as good as the Red Bull unless they start getting bored and Vettel is already losing interest.

[as65p]

I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....



...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.


Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;

Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):

Someone time warped this thread to the 70's, apparently. Upside-down aircraft wing shapes generating downforce, who would have thought?

[amitch1993]

Sounds pretty damn cool! Looking forward to next season already. The question is, how close can it get to the RB8 or will it be better than the RB8?

[Fastcake]

Well these rumours all sound very exciting as usual

Nice to see if McLaren have any big surprises to show like the L-shaped sidepods, they always excite me.

[ashnathan]

Could have DTM style wings/flickups on the sidepod structure.

[midgrid]

So the MP4-27 will be a quasi-ground effect car, with a wing at the top of the sidepod but a flat bottom?

[Peppe]

Could have DTM style wings/flickups on the sidepod structure.

Weren't all smaller wings and flick-ups banned from 2009 and on?

[ClockworkRacing]

Macca should stop with these miracle-like solutions and just make a solid and good car,just like the F10 was!

[Andy865]

So the MP4-27 will be a quasi-ground effect car, with a wing at the top of the sidepod but a flat bottom?

No no no

[Afterburner]

It's over 9000 downforce points (according to my calculations).

Awesome.

[HAM]

Does this mean using canards>?




Sukhoi T-50 PAKFA (counterpart for the F-22) which might uses some weird moving canards besides cockpit.

Edited by HAM, 15 September 2011 - 00:53.

[BigCHrome]

I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....
...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.
Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;
Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):

That wouldn't work. All you'd do is decrease rear downforce even more as the beam wing is choked of all airflow.

The only way I can see McLaren having "fighter jet" sidepods would be if they've made some major break through with radiator technology or if they're putting even more intakes on the top of the drivers head like they've done this year.

[hunnylander]

That wouldn't work. All you'd do is decrease rear downforce even more as the beam wing is choked of all airflow.

The only way I can see McLaren having "fighter jet" sidepods would be if they've made some major break through with radiator technology or if they're putting even more intakes on the top of the drivers head like they've done this year.

We can know jackshit about what would work an what wouldn't if we're not aerodynamicists knowning what exactly this very very very limited romour information means in practice, technically.


But the sidepods' / floor's position is not exactly and exclusively "all'you'd do" rear downforce. But anyway it's rear downforce in which McLaren is not that good currently since many years. In potential front downforce they are considered very good.


Be aware the current cooling is oversized on the Moose. McLaren doesn't need any major breakthrough in radiator technology, neither putting more intakes on top of the drivers head (which are for KERS and gearbox cooling anyway), because if they could do L J sidepods for this year, they could refine/rearrange (+cutback of the oversized inlet area) it to J L (L, J and I means the basic form of the cooling inlets from front view) or even refine it to near I I look.

[ArtShelley]

IF true, then I also find it very surprising that they can take one concept this year they think one solution is the best i.e MP4-26 having sidepods as far outboard as possible, and then the immediate following year when the only main change is no EBD, and decide that the best solution is going completely the opposite way by having sidepods that are as far inboard as possible.

That tells me one thing. Either they were wrong this year, or they are going to be wrong next year, or that they were wrong for both years.

[Andrew Hope]

anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long this thread will get by the end of next year?

On December 31st, 2012, this thread will be within 500 posts of 30,000. Quote it .

[Raemius]

which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?

Or how about a harrier, with rotating pods. EXTA DOWNFORCE!!

[Stormsky68]

IF true, then I also find it very surprising that they can take one concept this year they think one solution is the best i.e MP4-26 having sidepods as far outboard as possible, and then the immediate following year when the only main change is no EBD, and decide that the best solution is going completely the opposite way by having sidepods that are as far inboard as possible.

That tells me one thing. Either they were wrong this year, or they are going to be wrong next year, or that they were wrong for both years.

I can suggest one theory that fits the facts:

The moose side podes were designed to work with the octopus, and deliver maximum air to some kind of blown beam/rear wing
The team got it horribly wrong, parts wouldn't last more than a lap or two, and the FIA would not allow alternative exotic materials
So they were wrong this year, and the moose is no more than FAIL baggage carried around all season due to tub homoligation

Personally my heart is loving the technical innovation, but my head knows a WDC/WCC is most likely to come from an RB clone

Edited by Stormsky68, 15 September 2011 - 07:36.

[pliskinrob]

Quick! If we all post armchair aerodynamicist theories we might be able to get this thread to 1000 pages before the car is acctually announced.

[Gridfire]

Or how about a harrier, with rotating pods. EXTA DOWNFORCE!!

A reverse VTOL type thing? That'd be movable aero like the Brabham fan car and not allowed, however cool it would be to see an F1 car with 4 upward pointing jet exhausts...

[femi]

This might improve the group finances which should filter down to the F1 racing business.

Mclaren are going to need every penny they can get since they are the only team in the top 3 that are not works team. RB is now effectively Renault works team.

There is more here about RB/Renault deal. I think Renault F1 business model is smarter than Mercedes'

Edited by femi, 15 September 2011 - 08:22.