
McLaren MP4-27 [split]
#1
Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:06
heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?
on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.
#3
Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:29
'Wings formed from the body/sidepod', this was what I was dreaming about, when the Moose came out. Maybe my brainwaves were too strong.heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?
on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.


#4
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:25
L
#5
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:46
'Wings formed from the body/sidepod', this was what I was dreaming about, when the Moose came out. Maybe my brainwaves were too strong.
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Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?
#6
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:52
#7
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:54
It's over 9000 downforce points (according to my calculations).
#8
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:56
Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?
I second the request.
#9
Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:58
#10
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:08
#11
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:15
#12
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:23
heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?
on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.

which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?
#13
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:24
Would love to see William's skeleton rear on the Mclaren with good results.
indeed maybe sam michael can have a chat with the technical design team
#14
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:24
rumour has it that they will be radical next year no sidepods as such but the rad ducts on the side of the tub like a jump jet looking head on then wings covering the side impact structures
rumour is from 1 of their windtunnel guys apparantly although i got it 2nd hand so cant be too sure if its just a trial part or actual design but i hope its used as the test results are supposed to be really good
#15
Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:28
heard rumors Mp4-27 will use sidepod intakes close to cockpit like fighter jet, and use "wings" to cover crash structure. Legal?
on scarbs' twitter via somebody else.
Somthing like this?

#16
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:33
a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?
b) I wish they would stop trying something so tricky and just go about developing a fundamentally good car without resorting to magic bullets, especially given that EBD is effectively banned from next year.
#17
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:39
#18
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:43
#19
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:47
Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff thoughIf true (a big IF):
a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?
b) I wish they would stop trying something so tricky and just go about developing a fundamentally good car without resorting to magic bullets, especially given that EBD is effectively banned from next year.
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#20
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:48
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which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?
Sopwith Pup?
#21
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:54
Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff though
Someone who works in the windtunnel at McLaren did apparently...
#22
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:55
#23
Posted 14 September 2011 - 14:56
Can somebody visualize this?
Impossible, they're gonna use the technology they were testing in the winter of 2008 (9?) - livery is going to be transparent.
#24
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:01
These rumours are just a starting point for discussion... As next year draws closer more solid details will emerge. I suppose you brushed the rumour aside that the McLaren will have L-shaped sidepods last year as well.Its not McLaren who spread this rumour! As you can read in nearby thread there're far more specific rumours about new Ferrari. I would not bother about any of this stuff though
I, for one, don't brush aside any information.
Back on topic... McLaren have made it a habit of bringing something radical to their new cars lately. Good luck.
#25
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:04
a) Why would McLaren be so utterly stupid as to talk about next year's concept early and give away any potential advantage?
It is unlikely but possible. F-Duct was revealed by one of the McLaren's engineers in Autumn 2009 at most popular F1 technical forum. Later this guy was fired.
#26
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:07
I remember a guy who talked about "dead zone" prior to mp4-25, it didnt end up well, so i believe its not very clever to do the same thing. Anyway even in rumour it doesnt say that McLaren will be like that just an assumption what could be tried in tunnel so kind of blurry topic to make any sort of conclusionSomeone who works in the windtunnel at McLaren did apparently...
#27
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:07
I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....Can you draw and show us for a better visualization?
...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.
Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;
Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):

Edited by hunnylander, 14 September 2011 - 15:09.
#28
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:12
The dead zone rumour was about the F-Duct anyway. It must be deemed as true rumour as it described the F-Duct in broad terms.I remember a guy who talked about "dead zone" prior to mp4-25, it didnt end up well, so i believe its not very clever to do the same thing. Anyway even in rumour it doesnt say that McLaren will be like that just an assumption what could be tried in tunnel so kind of blurry topic to make any sort of conclusion
#29
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:13
It is unlikely but possible. F-Duct was revealed by one of the McLaren's engineers in Autumn 2009 at most popular F1 technical forum. Later this guy was fired.
For real?!
#30
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:17
Yes, i know that.;) i was thinking it would be damn stupid for anyone else in company to reveal such details as precedent was made.The dead zone rumour was about the F-Duct anyway. It must be deemed as true rumour as it described the F-Duct in broad terms.
#31
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:18
Or maybe more like the F310. Except the intakes are close/right next to the main chassis.Somthing like this?

I don't know, it'll probably not be as good as the Red Bull unless they start getting bored and Vettel is already losing interest.
#32
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:18
I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....
...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.
Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;
Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):
Someone time warped this thread to the 70's, apparently. Upside-down aircraft wing shapes generating downforce, who would have thought?

#33
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:23
#34
Posted 14 September 2011 - 15:54

Nice to see if McLaren have any big surprises to show like the L-shaped sidepods, they always excite me.
#35
Posted 14 September 2011 - 18:43
#36
Posted 14 September 2011 - 20:15
#37
Posted 14 September 2011 - 20:20
Weren't all smaller wings and flick-ups banned from 2009 and on?Could have DTM style wings/flickups on the sidepod structure.
#38
Posted 14 September 2011 - 22:32
#39
Posted 14 September 2011 - 23:53
So the MP4-27 will be a quasi-ground effect car, with a wing at the top of the sidepod but a flat bottom?
No no no
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#40
Posted 15 September 2011 - 00:07
Awesome.It's over 9000 downforce points (according to my calculations).


#41
Posted 15 September 2011 - 00:49



Sukhoi T-50 PAKFA (counterpart for the F-22) which might uses some weird moving canards besides cockpit.
Edited by HAM, 15 September 2011 - 00:53.
#42
Posted 15 September 2011 - 01:28
I'm thinking on it how to make an illustration, my 3D modelling skills are non-existant. Though I was good in hand drawing....
...in school. Alas it was decades ago, but I'll try to do some illustration and also to visualize the rumour about the -27.
Until that a sidepod-formed wing would look like;
Imagine a big part of sidepod has a form which generating downforce, so the height of the upper bodywork surface is increasing from the front of the sidepod to its end. Also its undercuts would shape it like this (sideview-profile):
That wouldn't work. All you'd do is decrease rear downforce even more as the beam wing is choked of all airflow.
The only way I can see McLaren having "fighter jet" sidepods would be if they've made some major break through with radiator technology or if they're putting even more intakes on the top of the drivers head like they've done this year.
#43
Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:45
We can know jackshit about what would work an what wouldn't if we're not aerodynamicists knowning what exactly this very very very limited romour information means in practice, technically.That wouldn't work. All you'd do is decrease rear downforce even more as the beam wing is choked of all airflow.
The only way I can see McLaren having "fighter jet" sidepods would be if they've made some major break through with radiator technology or if they're putting even more intakes on the top of the drivers head like they've done this year.
But the sidepods' / floor's position is not exactly and exclusively "all'you'd do" rear downforce. But anyway it's rear downforce in which McLaren is not that good currently since many years. In potential front downforce they are considered very good.
Be aware the current cooling is oversized on the Moose. McLaren doesn't need any major breakthrough in radiator technology, neither putting more intakes on top of the drivers head (which are for KERS and gearbox cooling anyway), because if they could do L J sidepods for this year, they could refine/rearrange (+cutback of the oversized inlet area) it to J L (L, J and I means the basic form of the cooling inlets from front view) or even refine it to near I I look.
#44
Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:54
That tells me one thing. Either they were wrong this year, or they are going to be wrong next year, or that they were wrong for both years.
#45
Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:58
anyone care to hazard a guess as to how long this thread will get by the end of next year?
On December 31st, 2012, this thread will be within 500 posts of 30,000. Quote it

#46
Posted 15 September 2011 - 07:14
![]()
which fighter jet?
f14 - f15 like? i.e. diagonally aft?
f16? under single round?
f18? under double round?
eurofighter? under double square?
mirage? sideways half circle?
Or how about a harrier, with rotating pods. EXTA DOWNFORCE!!

#47
Posted 15 September 2011 - 07:33
IF true, then I also find it very surprising that they can take one concept this year they think one solution is the best i.e MP4-26 having sidepods as far outboard as possible, and then the immediate following year when the only main change is no EBD, and decide that the best solution is going completely the opposite way by having sidepods that are as far inboard as possible.
That tells me one thing. Either they were wrong this year, or they are going to be wrong next year, or that they were wrong for both years.
I can suggest one theory that fits the facts:
The moose side podes were designed to work with the octopus, and deliver maximum air to some kind of blown beam/rear wing
The team got it horribly wrong, parts wouldn't last more than a lap or two, and the FIA would not allow alternative exotic materials
So they were wrong this year, and the moose is no more than FAIL baggage carried around all season due to tub homoligation
Personally my heart is loving the technical innovation, but my head knows a WDC/WCC is most likely to come from an RB clone
Edited by Stormsky68, 15 September 2011 - 07:36.
#48
Posted 15 September 2011 - 07:48
#49
Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:08
Or how about a harrier, with rotating pods. EXTA DOWNFORCE!!
A reverse VTOL type thing? That'd be movable aero like the Brabham fan car and not allowed, however cool it would be to see an F1 car with 4 upward pointing jet exhausts...

#50
Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:16
Mclaren are going to need every penny they can get since they are the only team in the top 3 that are not works team. RB is now effectively Renault works team.
There is more here about RB/Renault deal. I think Renault F1 business model is smarter than Mercedes'
Edited by femi, 15 September 2011 - 08:22.