54 replies to this topic

[TimRTC]

Just wondering why the F1 teams in particular still use pitboards when they have radios?

Surely a radio call is much less distracting than trying to read a pitboard.

[engel]

Because radios fail sometimes

[TimRTC]

But they seem to use the pitboards on most laps, even when the radios are working.

[dank]

Because reading a pitboard down a straight is often easier than hearing someone over the radio when you've got a ruddy great engine making a racket behind you.

Edit: plus there's often interference and what not.

Edited by dank, 02 May 2012 - 14:46.

[travbrad]

But they seem to use the pitboards on most laps, even when the radios are working.

Well the radio could fail at any moment so it's nice to have a backup solution just in case. Sometimes when there are radio problems it will work intermittently too, so it may be fine one lap, not the next, etc. F1 teams are huge nowadays too, so there's really no reason not to have one of them hold out the pitboard. The worst case scenario is no one looks at it.

I'm surprised the drivers can find/read their pitboard at all in the rain though. I know their name is on it, but still it can't be easy to read at 200-300kph in the rain. It can be hard to see road signs sometimes at 100kph with windshield wipers...

[Fastcake]

For things like gap times to the car behind, a pit board is the best way of showing the stats. It's not information a driver may want or need all the time, and it would probably by very distracting to hear it after every lap, especially if there's something more important to talk about. Also, seeing the times is I think a lot easily to comprehend than having to carefully listen for them.

[Cavani]

it easier for somethings like the gap to the driver in front and the driver behind , i think it is easier to read it than listen

[alfa1]

For things like gap times to the car behind, a pit board is the best way of showing the stats. It's not information a driver may want or need all the time, and it would probably by very distracting to hear it after every lap

Having listened to the radio comms of many many drivers over the years, the ONLY single time I've ever heard a driver get info on the gap by radio every lap to the opponent is Adelaide 1994, when Michael Schumacher was getting "your lead, 1.2 seconds" (or whatever the lead was at that time) every lap as he was ahead of Damon Hill.

http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

Mostly, radio traffic is very very minimal, leaving the driver to choose whether or not get it by reading the pit board.

[BRK]

I think drivers prefer it that way, being more used to pitboards coming up through the lower formulae and other feeder series.

[midgrid]

In addition to what has already been mentioned, drivers can sometimes "fail to hear" radio messages that they dislike (e.g. Ralf Schumacher in the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix), so a pit board provides further evidence of the team's instructions.

[TheWilliamzer]

An F1 tradition! just like why do they have champagne for winners.

[miniq]

It's not a tradition

Just a clear visual way of conveying information to a driver which is reliable

It's fail proof.

Edited by miniq, 02 May 2012 - 21:26.

[R Soul]

Correction: Almost fail proof. Jean Alesi in the 1997 Australian GP springs to mind

[miniq]

Correction: Almost fail proof. Jean Alesi in the 1997 Australian GP springs to mind

Correction:

Pit board didn't fail

Jean Alesi failed...

Edited by miniq, 02 May 2012 - 23:23.

[PNSD]

I wonder how you say, "Alonso is faster than you" on a pitboard?

[RedOne]

I wonder how you say, "Alonso is faster than you" on a pitboard?

Alonso > You

[wrcva]

not very reassuring... mess

[SirRacer]

not very reassuring... mess

What I don't get is why they keep using that old fashioned pitboard instead of a digital board like this:

[PNSD]

What I don't get is why they keep using that old fashioned pitboard instead of a digital board like this:

Why?

It cost more money, it weighs more (aircraft transport), and there is more of a chance of an incorrect message.

The problem with this sport is that people assume the top level technology should be used for everything, when more often than not, that is over complicating matters.

As the saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it ;-)

Interesting, on the weight, there are an amazing amount of items, track equipment that teams take to a race track, then leave behind for the flight home, the savings on weight are such that it is a considerable some of money over a season.

[PNSD]

Alonso > You

[plumtree]

http://www.yallaf1.c...d12mal41341.jpg

not very reassuring... mess

Give him some time to get the knack of the job. This is his first season in F1.
(The guy is Vettel's new trainer.)

[engel]

What I don't get is why they keep using that old fashioned pitboard instead of a digital board like this:

they tried LED boards, they were illegible in sunlight
plus why introduce something intended to be your failsafe that might fail itself

[BellisEndis]

Why?

It cost more money, it weighs more (aircraft transport), and there is more of a chance of an incorrect message.

The problem with this sport is that people assume the top level technology should be used for everything, when more often than not, that is over complicating matters.

As the saying goes, if it aint broke, don't fix it ;-)

Interesting, on the weight, there are an amazing amount of items, track equipment that teams take to a race track, then leave behind for the flight home, the savings on weight are such that it is a considerable some of money over a season.

what stuff??

I thought their stuff got moved for them by FOM for the fly away races (volume and timing dependant on your WCC points)

[slideways]

Having listened to the radio comms of many many drivers over the years, the ONLY single time I've ever heard a driver get info on the gap by radio every lap to the opponent is Adelaide 1994, when Michael Schumacher was getting "your lead, 1.2 seconds" (or whatever the lead was at that time) every lap as he was ahead of Damon Hill.

http://en.wikipedia....lian_Grand_Prix

Mostly, radio traffic is very very minimal, leaving the driver to choose whether or not get it by reading the pit board.

I have often heard drivers being given gaps via radio, although maybe not every lap. They also can send gap times to a drivers steering wheel display.

Edited by slideways, 03 May 2012 - 04:51.

[DrProzac]

Because radios fail sometimes

And pitobards may be less distracting than getting that information via radio all the time.

[Dunder]

I have often heard drivers being given gaps via radio, although maybe not every lap. They also can send gap times to a drivers steering wheel display.

No they can't. The only Pit->Car communications allowed are via the radio.

[aditya-now]

Interesting, on the weight, there are an amazing amount of items, track equipment that teams take to a race track, then leave behind for the flight home, the savings on weight are such that it is a considerable some of money over a season.

Quite an amazing info you are giving here, PNSD!!!

What do they leave behind, who keeps the stuff, is it kept till the next year (which would make sense with time insensitive items) - or is it all thrown into litter? Talk about sustainable then....

[V8 Fireworks]

Because radios fail sometimes

The manage without pit boards in most touring car racing (and in Indycar, I believe) so it really shouldn't be that hard. Pitboards are for motorcycling racing IMO. They give information that is 1 lap old, so really not a great tool.

[Grayson]

I wonder how you say, "Alonso is faster than you" on a pitboard?

I'm fairly sure they'd be communicating that on the pitboard anyway...

P1 ALO -4.9
P1 ALO -3.5
P1 ALO -2.6
P1 ALO -1.2
P1 ALO -0.8
P1 ALO -0.6
P1 ALO -0.4
P2 GOOD LAD

[HoldenRT]

They use both and when the radios fail (which they do WAAAAY too often considering F1 is the "pinnacle of technology").. they are proven correct in doing so.

[HoldenRT]

I'm fairly sure they'd be communicating that on the pitboard anyway...

P1 ALO -4.9
P1 ALO -3.5
P1 ALO -2.6
P1 ALO -1.2
P1 ALO -0.8
P1 ALO -0.6
P1 ALO -0.4
P2 GOOD LAD

"Good lad"

[Fastcake]

They use both and when the radios fail (which they do WAAAAY too often considering F1 is the "pinnacle of technology").. they are proven correct in doing so.

There's a big difference between radio fail and "radio fail"

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

The manage without pit boards in most touring car racing (and in Indycar, I believe) so it really shouldn't be that hard. Pitboards are for motorcycling racing IMO. They give information that is 1 lap old, so really not a great tool.

Touring cars you're looking at maybe between 10-20 laps depending on the track and whether it's BTCC or WTCC. Indycar, can you imagine going left at 220mph in a side by side battle with a matter of inches between the cars and looking at a pitboard? No, me neither. Plus because of the high speed nature of oval tracks, there's always an enormous grassy area that separates the racetrack and the pitlane, so pitboards are actually basically impossible to be used in Indycar.

[ascension]

Clearly it's different using the radio and the pit boards. It could old habits are hard to brake as well.

[johnap]

What I don't get is why they keep using that old fashioned pitboard instead of a digital board like this:

Audi have used electronic pitboards at Le Mans for years now.

[SirRacer]

Audi have used electronic pitboards at Le Mans for years now.

Thanks.

[gm914]

What I don't get is why they keep using that old fashioned pitboard instead of a digital board...

Lotus are apparently experimenting with such a system to tell Kimi when to pit...

[Prost1997T]

Indycar, can you imagine going left at 220mph in a side by side battle with a matter of inches between the cars and looking at a pitboard? No, me neither. Plus because of the high speed nature of oval tracks, there's always an enormous grassy area that separates the racetrack and the pitlane, so pitboards are actually basically impossible to be used in Indycar.

The majority of the 2012 Indycar calendar is conventional circuits and street courses rather than ovals

I haven't seen the teams use pitboards though.

[Meanie]

I'm fairly sure they'd be communicating that on the pitboard anyway...

P1 ALO -4.9
P1 ALO -3.5
P1 ALO -2.6
P1 ALO -1.2
P1 ALO -0.8
P1 ALO -0.6
P1 ALO -0.4
P2 GOOD LAD

I just had to laugh.

[zztopless1]

How about adding a head's up display as a layer of the visor? The technology exists (whether as a projected image, or a see through display). Would be nice marketing tool; promos showing the futuristic point of view of the driver. From a safety point of view it would also allow the driver to spend less time looking at the LED on the steering wheel, as well as the pit-board. They could also use it to display something in their peripheral vision if a car is along side, again adding to safety (given how often drivers complain that mirrors are not that useful).

I remember Ralf Schumacher using a very basic version of this, or at least reports that they were planning to at some stage? But, the technology has come a long way since.

Edited by zztopless1, 05 May 2012 - 01:42.

[slideways]

No they can't. The only Pit->Car communications allowed are via the radio.

It's from the FIA timing loop not pit telemetry.

[DrProzac]

Touring cars you're looking at maybe between 10-20 laps depending on the track and whether it's BTCC or WTCC.

And no pitstops. Also very little strategy.

How about adding a head's up display as a layer of the visor?

I remember a discussion about that. Basically I think they don't need it. I also remember voices that it would be distracting, though these voices were countered by the fact that jet fighter pilots seem not to have problems with it.

[alfa1]

It's from the FIA timing loop not pit telemetry.

Are you sure that gaps can be read from the timing loop?
As I understand it
- the car can detect the timing loop, being as it is similar to an RFID transmitter, so the car can thus display info about its own lap times and sector times
- the loop can also transmit some data, such as yellow/blue flag information
but surely data regarding sector times from every other competitor isnt also transmitted on that loop... is it?

[wingwalker]

I was always surprised that drivers are able to read anything from those tiny boards when passing them at around 300km/h.

[PayasYouRace]

I'm sure I've heard Martin Brundle comment on how it's surprisingly easy to read your pit board. You quickly learn where it is and you can take in all the information rather quickly.

[Cavani]

I'm sure I've heard Martin Brundle comment on how it's surprisingly easy to read your pit board. You quickly learn where it is and you can take in all the information rather quickly.

yeah , adapt or die my friend

[PayasYouRace]

yeah , adapt or die my friend

Did you reply to the wrong post?

[Talryyn]

Are you sure that gaps can be read from the timing loop?
As I understand it
- the car can detect the timing loop, being as it is similar to an RFID transmitter, so the car can thus display info about its own lap times and sector times
- the loop can also transmit some data, such as yellow/blue flag information
but surely data regarding sector times from every other competitor isnt also transmitted on that loop... is it?

I think it is still all AMB based - so surely the wheels can display info similar to what these do: http://www.mylaps.co...onboard_display

[Aieljose]

Probably because they still haven't found a more effective way to visually relay information. Maybe one day all the info will be shown onboard the steering wheel right nest to the secton split times or whatever but im guessing pit boards will be around for a while longer. I think It's important that we keep some traditions like pitboards unchanged as it adds to the nostalgia of racing. Some things are better left unchanged.

[Cavani]

Did you reply to the wrong post?

i was talking about drivers learning to read pit boards at 320 kph