72 replies to this topic

[pa]

From Autorace:

Ruling given in Schumacher helmet saga * Judge Christine Dalcq ruled in favour of Sports Europe on Thursday and ordered an injunction against Michael Schumacher.

According to a court order, Schumacher must wear the Bell helmet in training and for Sunday's GP and failure to do so will see him paying Sports Europe an amount of $1.1 million per day in damages.

Daniel Spreutels, Sports Europe's lawyer was quoted by Reuters as saying: "We're very pleased with the decision. Sports Europe has been thoroughly vindicated. It's now very much up to Schumacher. Either he wears the helmet or he pays up."

===================

I think it's a good decision. Unless MS is willing to cough up major dough, he'll be wearing a Bell helmet this year. Just because you're powerful and famous doesn't give you the right to ignore your contractual obligations. And if MS whines about his safety, he should have considered that before deciding to charge money for wearing a company's helmet - the most important piece of safety equipment a driver can wear.

[Clatter]

100% agree. Its good to see justice done for once.

[BuzzingHornet]

What was Schumacher playing at?? Is Ralf also being prosecuted cos I heard that he has changed to the same helmet too...

[Manson]

Great news! As Alexei Yashin learned:

a) A contract is a contract no matter who you are.

b) B judges and the public are fed up with superstar sports athletes who feel the law is for us slobs not them.

[Paste]

I think it's totally ridiculous. $1.1 million for every day?? That's absolute B.S.

[Lantern]

At most he should be made to pay the remainder of the contract money back. And if he hasn't been paid then I think they should stick their contract up their ass!!

[pa]

Well, we don't know how much MS was charging to wear Bell helmets - as well, we don't have Bell's calculations about its estimated losses (losses of potential sales through marketing) for MS' not wearing their helmet. In order to be effective, the penalty must be real and represent a significant hardship to a man of MS' resources. 100 bucks a day doesn't cut it. I think this penalty is designed to be so prohibitive that the makers of his new helmet won't pay it for him as a cost of doing business.

[BuzzingHornet]

I'm surprised he couldn't have got it pushed through on the grounds of added safety...

[pa]

Originally posted by BuzzingHornet
I'm surprised he couldn't have got it pushed through on the grounds of added safety...

He lost that option when he entered a contract with Bell to wear their helmets for a specified length of time in exchange for money. If safety were so important to him, one would think he wouldn't have sold his freedom to choose his most vital piece of safety equipment. But he did, and now he must either pay or wear Bell helmets for a year.

[Smooth]

I doubt we have heard the last of this. Schumacher's lawyers will certainly push to pay back only what the contract stipulated. I can't imagine a contract without out a kick-out or early termination stipulation. A penalty is certainly fair, but highway-rape is not.

[Sphinx]

Sweet and sour for Bell.

The WDC and most popular (current) racer in the world no longer endorses their product.

But, Bell is getting alot of exposure.

But, come on, 1.1 million a day fine. Give me a break. Wonder if anyone in the legal system is getting a kickback on that one?

[Max Torque]

I said it in the other thread, I will repeat it here.

If one is concerned in having the safest equipment at any given time, he doesn't sign exclusive multi-year deals! It is that simple. What did they believe? Sign now, and if something better comes along, we will ditch them without reprecussions? That's outrageous.

Also, just because a rival company spends huge, huge amounts of money in just one specific, tailor-made helmet, doesn't mean that the others become dangerous or unsafe. And it neither gives anyone the right to walk out of a contract. The BELL product didn't suddenly become "unsafe". It is still the same fine product it was.

And lastly, Schumacher with his lawyers' claims now, not only shows no respect to his partners whose money he takes because of contracts signed, but he does terrible publicity damage claiming he ditched them for a "safer" and "better" product. Not only he ****s with them, but he ****s them as well! The guy you signed a contract with, not only doesn't honor his part of the deal, but also goes out and tells the public that your product isn't good enough any more!

I am very dissapointed with him. And glad that the court showed him that he should respect the people he does bussiness with.

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Paste
I think it's totally ridiculous. $1.1 million for every day?? That's absolute B.S.

I guess this is blind Schumacher-fan speak.
Oh why would they do this to my sweet little Schumi? He is such a good person... never hurt anybody. Evil BELL corporation, out to put the man down.

[Todd]

Schumacher entered into a contract. For breaking the contract, he should have been open to damages beyond the fee he charged for wearing the Bell helmets. He should not have been put in a position where he must use what he feels is an inferior helmet. Ball-less wonders, like the judge of this case, should take care when they are involved with cases effecting men who put their lives in danger every day on the job. Schumacher did sign a multi-year contract. Priorities change though. There have been more motorsport related tragedies. Michael is older and has another kid. Maybe he cares more now.

He should pay the price for his new priority. It should be punitive, but it shouldn't preclude him wearing the safety equipment he believes in. pa, max, and the judge should each put on a Bell helmet and have a carbon fiber push rod fired at his temple. Which ever way it turned out, they wouldn't make the same gonadless remarks they did here.

[Smooth]

Max, it may be true that Bell didn't suddenly become less safe than they had been, but the fact may well be they are not as safe as they could be, make sense? Schumacher indeed entered a contract with them, and at the kind of money involved, I would imagine the contract would be well written, and would certainly leave a termination clause of some sort. We don't know how the contract is written, but I am willing to go on record hewre and now that Schumacher won't be paying Bell (or its distributors) 1.3 million a day to wear another helmet. And as I already stated: this won't be the end of it either.



I think Schumacher should just wear a Bell, but paint it black and in day-glo green lettering put on it "Bell Helmets Suck" See how quick Bell reacts to that!

[Todd]

Smooth,

I suspect his contract stipulates that he doesn't intentionally bring the Bell product line into ill repute. Otherwise, you would see that sort of thing pretty often.

[ZZMS]

I wonder how much Bell will be sued if , God forbid, MS gets serious head injury or even dies.........

[Max Torque]

Todd, I understand that you too have to stand up for your idol, no matter how outrageous and unjust his case is. But for the sake of conversation here, let me ask you this: Do you believe that BELL helmets suddenly became unsafe? Let's say that Schuberth never became interested in F1. Wouldn't that mean that Schumi would still be wearing his BELL without a problem? Whould the helmet be dangerous then? Is it now? It doesn't comply with the strictest safety standards? Are other BELL users idiots that put their life in danger?

Schumi had a contract with one of the best helmet companies. The helmet is still an excellent product. The only problem is Schumacher's arrogance in this case.

And anyway, if he really feels that his life is in danger if it is entrusted to BELL (the company that protects his head for YEARS now, Todd. FOR YEARS NOW), then he should pay the godamn fine and wear his other new kickass hitec helmet. He isn't forced to wear the BELL and we all know he sure can afford the fine.

[tifosi]

Right on Smooth,

How 'bout in every press conference in which he doesn't win he says " I lost because of this crappy Bell helmet. If he wins he could say "Despite this lousy Bell helmet I was able to win"

Then Bell will be suing him to get him to drop the contract and he could countersue for $1.3M to drop the contract hehehe

It seems Europe is joinging the U.S. in the justice-lottery sweepstakes.

[Smooth]

Todd, I was kidding.

But I would have also believed a contract would have a clear and undisputable early termination clause. Hell, the $15 a month space I rent to park my boat trailer has a two page contract, with a clear termination clause!


Politics, politics, politics.... Oh well. One more drama to look for over the weekend: which helmet will Schumi wear! I bet he wears the Schuberth and pays the fine for the weekend while his lawyers straighten it out.

[Smooth]

Originally posted by tifosi
How 'bout in every press conference in which he doesn't win he says " I lost because of this crappy Bell helmet. If he wins he could say "Despite this lousy Bell helmet I was able to win"

[goGoGene]

Oh please, this whole "it would threaten my life to not wear this new helmet" is total crap. Schumie's handlers have obviously gotten a sweeter deal with another helmet manufacturer, thanks to his wolrd championship, and they are now trying to weasle out of a deal.
I don't blame this on MS at all. Face it, the name Michael Schumacher is a corporation now, and I'm sure that this was the decision of marketing men within that corp. I just hope that MS comes to his sences and realizes that the buck stops with him. It's his name and if he doesn't want it dragged through the mud he's going to have to honor his previous deals.
MS has done quite a bit in these last two years to show himself as a clean driver, and this is coming from someone that thought that he was dirty **** for some time. To keep up this image he has to make sure the people within his organization stay on the straight and narrow.
I think that this whole, contracts are there to be broken attitute has got to be stopped, it's making sports and sportmen look really bad.

ggg

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Smooth
Max, it may be true that Bell didn't suddenly become less safe than they had been, but the fact may well be they are not as safe as they could be, make sense?

Look, it doesn't go like that. The BELL helmets are still as safe as needed in F1. Sure, with unlimited funding, time and research there can be a superior helmet. But so what? It doesn't mean that all others are made obsolete.

[Get Sirius]

Originally posted by Paste
I think it's totally ridiculous. $1.1 million for every day?? That's absolute B.S.

I agree 100 percent that the sum is absolute B.S. for anything - isn't that what Schumacher gets each day during Grand Prix weekends? (17x3x1.1 million equals 56.1 million)

[Smooth]

Schumacher paid for the Schuberth helmet. he had it made out of a material they pioneered that is many times more intrusion resistant than anything Bell, Bieffe or Arai have. It is not about his handlers getting him a better deal: He saw a better product available and wanted it. Since Schuberth custom makes most of thier helmets, he had to have his made. Much more was blown up about him having some custom designed one off special: All the drivers wearing this brand have custome designed one-off's by the nature of the product.

We will see what he wears over the weekend.

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by tifosi


Right on Smooth,

How 'bout in every press conference in which he doesn't win he says " I lost because of this crappy Bell helmet. If he wins he could say "Despite this lousy Bell helmet I was able to win"

If Schumi did anything like this at all, he would be sued for damages and he would pay dearly.

[Smooth]

He could say 'massively inferior' Bell product, and he could prove it.

[Todd]

Originally posted by Max Torque
And anyway, if he really feels that his life is in danger if it is entrusted to BELL (the company that protects his head for YEARS now, Todd. FOR YEARS NOW), then he should pay the godamn fine and wear his other new kickass hitec helmet. He isn't forced to wear the BELL and we all know he sure can afford the fine.

I agree that he should pay a fine. I'm not even saying that it should be less than a few million dollars. 1.3 million PER DAY is absurd. That is a few hundred million dollars. Schumacher's total fortune is a couple million more than this amount(480 million v. 474.5 million). That doesn't mean that he could raise the money through liquidating his assets either. In effect, he is forced to wear the BELL helmet. What were Bell's total profits in 2000? He certainly doesn't owe them more money than he has made for them in the past.

[stoopid]

>>>>>>>>>>At most he should be made to pay the remainder of the contract money back. And if he hasn't been paid then I think they should stick their contract up their ass!!


what would be the point of a long term contract then? seriously...


>>>>>>>>>>>I wonder how much Bell will be sued if , God forbid, MS gets serious head injury or even dies.........

bell wont be sued for anything... the helmets are perfectly fine, and michael has agreed to wear them. michael should be sued for making it seem like a worthless product, but that of course depends on what the contract says.

[Peeko]

Isn't this new helmet supposed to withstand 10 times (or some number, I can't rememer) the amount of force his normal Bell helmet would? Didn't his normal Bell helmet crack as a result of his shunt at Silverstone 99, his biggest shunt as a driver??

[Smooth]

Peeko: the thing about the new helmet is the penetration resistance: think of an accident like Senna's: This helmet won't crack as easily, as you said, and is many times more resistant to penetration (Kind of like an old girlfriend! ;-) )

[SalutGilles]

In response to Paste's comment about 1.1M being ridiculous:

Originally posted by Max Torque


I guess this is blind Schumacher-fan speak.
Oh why would they do this to my sweet little Schumi? He is such a good person... never hurt anybody. Evil BELL corporation, out to put the man down.

Now, I'm not here as often as i used to be, but somehow I doubt Paste has joined the "dark side"

just a thought.

Max, do you work for Bell? getting quite steamed over something whch really doesn't matter, aren't you?

[Max Torque]

Originally posted by Todd
What were Bell's total profits in 2000? He certainly doesn't owe them more money than he has made for them in the past.

Oh, this is just about the best argument! You should go to Belgium and speak on his deffense!

"Look, your honor, Bell has won enough money already from us. What do they want, these filthy, greedy helmet people? What? They want us to just honor our contract? Bah! They made enough money already. So much that we can now damage their reputation by saying they are not good and they should also thank us for it! We are Michael Schumacher your honor. We get what we want, we do what we want."

And also, bear in mind people that fines are always relative to the offender's income. If it was anyone less rich, the fine wouldn't be that huge.

[TNSFH]

Could somebody point me to the reason why MS doesn't want to use Bell? Was there a failure of one of the helmets? If there were, that would seem to me a good reason to get out of a contract? If there was a failure and he lost the case, then his lawyers must have sucked!

[Smooth]

So Max: Say you wanted to break a year lease on an apartment 9 months in, and the apt. owner took you to court and you were ordered to pay $25,000 per month left on the contract. You think that is fair and reasonable? Get a clue.

[Max Torque]

SalluteGilles, I don't work for BELL and I don't hate Schumacher.
As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even participate in this conversation if it wasn't for some people here that claimed that the verdict was unjust and that Schumie had every right, etc. etc.

That outraged me and I had to speak up. It seems to me that some people are so blind out of love for their favorites that cannot see the most basic reasoning.
I will calm down now and look to other threads. Phew!

[tifosi]

Joking aside, and I hope nobody on this thread is doing ANYTHING more than just kidding. First of all not a single one of us knows what is in the Michael Schumacher-BELL contract. It may not even be a dollar amount. A lot of sports figures simply sign deals with equipment manufacturers that then provide free custom made equipment. I would be willing to bet anyone here that Bell does not pay MS $1,000,000 as day or even $10,000 a day. Maybe for the year.

This kind of reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys situation a few years ago. The NFL had an exclusive contract signed with Pepsi, but the Cowboys sold Coke products in their statdium. Pepsi sued but in the end lost because when all is said and done any personal services contract is unenforcable.

In the end after this is appealed umpteen million times, I am sure MS will have to pay some sort of damages and will wear the helmet he chooses. For this weekend he is probably stuck with the lousy Bell.

As a sidelight, and don't for a minute believe I wish this on anyone, can you imagine what would happen if Schumacher dies this weekend and the cause can be traced to the helmet in any way. It would probably destroy Bell. It took then nearly 15 years too get out of the mess created by a few high school football deaths in the 70's. Lawsuits were flying everywhere. I could even imagine criminal charges being filed if something happened to Schumacher this weekend. Don't laugh, the liberal-socialist lawyers union has come up with for more ludicrous stuff and been succesful.

[Max Torque]

Smooth, simple: I don't change apartments!

Originally posted by Peeko
Isn't this new helmet supposed to withstand 10 times (or some number, I can't rememer) the amount of force his normal Bell helmet would?

And what happens if tomorrow a new company comes out that makes a helmet that can withstand 100 times what BELL can?!
Does that mean that again Schumacher will be free to get out of his contract?!

[Smooth]

Max, I don't think anyone has said that Schumie had every right, etc. etc. no one suggested he should get away without penalty. We are saying the fine levied is outragous and unjust. He should certainly be fined, but c'mon: the fine is absurd, if indeed the fine levied was the fine suggested by Bell before the trial. (Which we don't know yet, do we?)

[Ruud de la Rosa]

I read this in an atlas f1 atrticle!:
"Failure to do so would make him liable to pay damages to Sports Europe of five million Belgian francs ($1.1 million) for every day he did not."
The last time I was in belgium 40 francs was about the same value as a dollar! make that 0.11 million scummi has got to pay every day! (also heard a figure on german television of 250 000 DM (about 0.11 million).

forget about the 1.1 million it is 0.11 million!

Kind regards Ruudje

[Dimo]

Is there any chance we can bring back some reality to this discussion?

1+ million per day is of course absurd. It also appears to be untrue.

I took a quick look around my favourite sources and the most common number I'm seeing is 5-million Belgian francs per event. That's about $115,000 per race or about $1.9 million over the course of the season (17x$115,000).

I think the numbers that are being argued here are a misrepresentation.

I have no idea what MS would be paid for using Bell, but $1.9mil for a full year does not sound like an unusual judgement when you consider sponsorship plus (supposed) lost revenues.

Even Todd said that he should be subject to punitive damages. I don't think this would be out of the ballpark.

[Todd]

Thanks, Ruudje.

3*17*.11=5.61 million. Assuming that he only has to pay for the 3 timed FIA days of each GP, that is a fair penalty.

[The RedBaron]

Firstly how long is the contract with Bell?
It seems that he has honoured a great chunk of that period.
When does the contract end.? Is there a break clause after x amount of years of supply?


""All we want is that he respects the terms of the contract before the Melbourne Grand Prix," he said. The lawyer representing Michael Schumacher, who is racing in this weekend's season opener in Australia, declined to comment. Sports Europe Managing Director Kindt Cohen said Michael Schumacher had had an agreement with her company to wear Bell helmets since 1992. "It's always been a harmonious relationship," she said.

Michael Schumacher renewed the contract every year and had already signed up for the 2001 season, she said. Cohen said she found out about Michael Schumacher wearing a rival's helmet after pictures of the 32-year-old German in Barcelona appeared in newspapers last month.

Seems I've answered some of my questions.



The "Sports Europe - Bell Racing" company started a lawsuit against the German Ferrari star as Michael Schumacher didn't use a Bell helmet during the recent test sessions. The Belgian racing helmets manufacturer claims to have an exclusive contract with Michael Schumacher for the upcoming season to wear a Bell helmet "at each sporting event requiring the use of a helmet for the whole of the 2001 season.". The German Ferrari star recently switched helmets and opted for the bullet-proof helmet of the German Schuberth company. The first hearing will take place in Brussels this Monday.

Key words there "at each sporting event requiring the use of a helmet for the whole of the 2001 season.". "
There might be loopholes in the contract.

He could in effect wear the Bell Helmets during the event for a period of say 10 mins on each of the 3 days during the weekend
and then switch to the Schuberth helmets once in the car.
He is still honouring the contract by agreeing to wear the helmet during GP weekends. It might not specify the time limits or helmets from other suppliers. I'm sure there's a loophole to exploit somewhere.;)

[Smooth]

It was, at one time, reported he would be fined for any days in the car, ie. all the testing days as well.

[Max Torque]

I guess we all agree then.
Smooth, I doubt it takes into account the testing days outside of the GP weekends (Mugello, etc.)
If that was the case, wouldn't he have already a fine to pay for all the use he has done so far?

[The RedBaron]

No it doesn't include testing.....no media exposure, only race weekends.

[Smooth]

their is certainly media exposure at testing. If it would be considered a 'sporting event' may be another matter.

[The RedBaron]

You know what I mean Smooth...by comparison. Here it the UK, we only see 10-sec clips of some testing sessions, and that is extremely rare.

[Manson]

Will this topic go before THE Court, the Atlas Court.;)

[Manson]

I wonder if the licence plate "F SCHUEY" is taken in Ontario?