21 replies to this topic

[arttidesco]

Looking at the list of Lotus Types, recommended by an Elan owner, on the race-cars.com site I notice that there are two entries for the Lotus 74 the F2 car also known as the Texaco Star IIRC and the Europa Twin Cam, the Historic Lotus Register only goes as far as the Lotus 69.

Does anyone know what the correct type number was for the Europa Twin Cams ?

Relevant answers maybe credited and used to correct a blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

[jjordan]

Looking at the list of Lotus Types, recommended by an Elan owner, on the race-cars.com site I notice that there are two entries for the Lotus 74 the F2 car also known as the Texaco Star IIRC and the Europa Twin Cam, the Historic Lotus Register only goes as far as the Lotus 69.

Does anyone know what the correct type number was for the Europa Twin Cams ?

Relevant answers maybe credited and used to correct a blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

The one we had, with the formula 2 suspension and a twin cam was a 47

[arttidesco]

Thanks jjordan, perhaps I should clarify I am trying to establish the Type number/s for the Lotus 'Europa Twin Cam' and Lotus 'Europa Special' models that were manufactured from 1971 to 1975.

[arttidesco]

74

Thanks kayemod, same as the Texaco Star F2 cars ?

[kayemod]

Does anyone know what the correct type number was for the Europa Twin Cams ?

The Europa twin-cam was the type 74, I worked on it, and I was also at Lotus when they made the Texaco Stars, and I'm pretty sure that they didn't originally have any Lotus type number at all, we only ever referred to them as 'Texaco Stars'. The rather confusing Type 74 designation seems to have been attributed retrospectively, though no idea where it came from. I'm fairly sure no-one ever called them that at the time. To avoid confusion, maybe we should call them "racing 74s"?

Very odd, my original post, the one Artidesco responded to disappeared. I had that happen once before, the site was down for 'essential maintenance' earlier today, wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Edited by kayemod, 10 May 2012 - 14:08.

[kayemod]

And yet more confusion over Lotus type numbers, the factory sometimes didn't use the same designation as the outside world. To give just one example, the reincarnation of the Lotus Elite is known to most as the Type 75, but I never ever ever saw or heard it called that in the factory at the time it was being developed. To everyone, spoken about or designated on drawings etc, it was always referred to as the M50, and no, I couldn't even guess at an explanation for that.

[arttidesco]

The Europa twin-cam was the type 74, I worked on it, and I was also at Lotus when they made the Texaco Stars, and I'm pretty sure that they didn't originally have any Lotus type number at all, we only ever referred to them as 'Texaco Stars'. The rather confusing Type 74 designation seems to have been attributed retrospectively, though no idea where it came from. I'm fairly sure no-one ever called them that at the time. To avoid confusion, maybe we should call them "racing 74s"?

Very odd, my original post, the one Artidesco responded to disappeared. I had that happen once before, the site was down for 'essential maintenance' earlier today, wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Thanks for the clarification on both counts Rob, for a moment there I thought I had gone past the sign post up ahead and entered the Twiglet Zone

[kayemod]

Thanks for the clarification on both counts Rob, for a moment there I thought I had gone past the sign post up ahead and entered the Twiglet Zone

"Do not pass Go, do not collect £200..."

[arttidesco]

"Do not pass Go, do not collect £200..."

[Tim Murray]

The rather confusing Type 74 designation seems to have been attributed retrospectively, though no idea where it came from.

Motoring News was referring to the Texaco Stars as Lotus 74s at their race debut at Nivelles in June 1973.

[paulsenna1]

Was the Lotus 79 also the Esprit? Seem to recall that from somewhere!

[arttidesco]

Motoring News was referring to the Texaco Stars as Lotus 74s at their race debut at Nivelles in June 1973.

A bit before Simon Aaron was on the scene to keep things ship shape and Bristol Fashion

Could this be another case of journalists revolting against Mr Chapman's commercial spirit and enthusiasm for selling naming rights ?

[arttidesco]

Was the Lotus 79 also the Esprit? Seem to recall that from somewhere!

Well remembered Paul it certainly is on the race-cars.com site

[kayemod]

Could this be another case of journalists revolting against Mr Chapman's commercial spirit and enthusiasm for selling naming rights ?

I think that's the explanation, I know that Chapman wanted the F1 cars to be referred to as "JPS with a number", and as far as he was concerned, the F2s were just "Texacos", it seems to have been the media that attributed Lotus type numbers to some of these, and the factory seems to have more or less given in to this, eventually.

[frp]

I think that's the explanation, I know that Chapman wanted the F1 cars to be referred to as "JPS with a number", and as far as he was concerned, the F2s were just "Texacos", it seems to have been the media that attributed Lotus type numbers to some of these, and the factory seems to have more or less given in to this, eventually.

I was aware of both the Europa Twin-Cam and Texaco Star being referred to as 'Type 74' at the time.

And, as a thirteen-year-old with Lotus and numerical neatness as his twin obsessions, I was not happy about it!

Andy

[arttidesco]

And, as a thirteen-year-old with Lotus and numerical neatness as his twin obsessions, I was not happy about it!

Andy

[RA Historian]

According to Lotus, All the Cars by Anthony Pritchard, the numbering, starting with 74 is:

74 Formula 2, 1974
74 Europa Twin Cam
75 Elite
76 F-1, 1974
76 Eclat
77 F-1, 1976
78 F-1, 1977
79 F-1, 1978
79 Esprit
80 F-1, 1979
81 F-1, 1980
82 Turbo Esprit
83 Elite Series 2
84 Eclat Series 2
85 Esprit Series 3
86 F-1, 1980 (twin chassis)
87 F-1 1981
88 F-1, twin chassis development
89 Excel
90 proposed successor to original Elan, not produced
91 F-1, 1982
92 F-1, 1983, Cosworth
93 F-1, 1983 turbo Renault
94 F-1, 1983 (hurried replacement)
95 F-1, 1984
96 CART Indy Car, not developed or raced
97 F-1, 1985
98 F-1, 1986
99 F-1, 1987
100 F-1, 1988
100 Elan, front engine production car
101 F-1, 1989
102 F-1, 1990
103 F-1 design not produced
104 Lotus Carlton/Omega

Book ends here. So, we see that there were several instances of duplicate numbering. I concur with the above observations that most seemed to be linked with the desire of Chapman to pander (?) to sponsors by having the race cars carry sponsor names other than Lotus and a type number. Having said that, said theory does not account for the two number 100s.

But has everything always been clear at Lotus?

Tom

[elansprint72]

I have given up hope of understanding many things that went on at Lotus.

One thing that has always got my knickers in a twist at the red car manufacturer's was how many different products one could call "Dino 246".

[kayemod]

I have given up hope of understanding many things that went on at Lotus.

I can remember thinking very similar thoughts, for most of the time I worked there.

[arttidesco]

I can remember thinking very similar thoughts, for most of the time I worked there.

I have heard it said genius thrives on chaos, looking around my humble abode I reckon it must be time to come up with something to equal Einstein theory of relativity in significance

[simonlewisbooks]

theory does not account for the two number 100s.
Tom

Wasn't the F1 car the " 100T " - as in 'Turbo' ? But maybe I'm imagining that

[RA Historian]

Yes Simon, there were 'Ts' after the car number if turbocharged, but I did not get into that as it was not germane to the point of more than one Lotus with the same type number.
Tom