65 replies to this topic

[Wander]

I'm not talking in terms of gap in qualifying or race pace, cause I know there have been much bigger gaps in the past, but in terms of points scored... Has there ever been a pair with a bigger difference between their results than what Alonso and Massa are doing right now?

Massa has scored 2 points, which is a whopping 3.28% of Alonso's 61 total. I can't think of a worse percentage from anywhere in the past unless we are talking about a situation where scoring points was rare for the team and one driver managed a freak result somewhere.

Some of Ayrton Senna's team mates come close with Andretti scoring 9.59% of Senna's total in 1993 and Nakajima scoring 12.28% of Ayrtons' 1987 points tally.

But the winner of the worst team mate to Ayrton competition is Johnny Dumfries who only scored 3 points against Senna's 55 in 1986. But even this is 5.45% so more than what Massa has managed against Alonso so far. Not to mention that Johnny managed several 7th and 9th place finishes, which would score him more points with current system. Massa would still be at zero with the old system.

Now, I know you can't really make fair comparison between different periods, but just for fun, please share similar driver combinations with huge result differences from F1 history. Some points against no points combos are of course also allowed, but it would be preferable if the points scoring driver did it multiple times. Scoring 1 point against 0 isn't really such a big feat.

[flyer121]

I'm not talking in terms of gap in qualifying or race pace, cause I know there have been much bigger gaps in the past, but in terms of points scored... Has there ever been a pair with a bigger difference between their results than what Alonso and Massa are doing right now?

Massa has scored 2 points, which is a whopping 3.28% of Alonso's 61 total. I can't think of a worse percentage from anywhere in the past unless we are talking about a situation where scoring points was rare for the team and one driver managed a freak result somewhere.

Some of Ayrton Senna's team mates come close with Andretti scoring 9.59% of Senna's total in 1993 and Nakajima scoring 12.28% of Ayrtons' 1987 points tally.

But the winner of the worst team mate to Ayrton competition is Johnny Dumfries who only scored 3 points against Senna's 55 in 1986. But even this is 5.45% so more than what Massa has managed against Alonso so far. Not to mention that Johnny managed several 7th and 9th place finishes, which would score him more points with current system. Massa would still be at zero with the old system.

Now, I know you can't really make fair comparison between different periods, but just for fun, please share similar driver combinations with huge result differences from F1 history. Some points against no points combos are of course also allowed, but it would be preferable if the points scoring driver did it multiple times. Scoring 1 point against 0 isn't really such a big feat.

Comparison with Massa for any meaning ful result is fraught with risks because of Ferrari s #2 driver policy...

So all results are null and void

[garoidb]

I'm not talking in terms of gap in qualifying or race pace, cause I know there have been much bigger gaps in the past, but in terms of points scored... Has there ever been a pair with a bigger difference between their results than what Alonso and Massa are doing right now?

Massa has scored 2 points, which is a whopping 3.28% of Alonso's 61 total. I can't think of a worse percentage from anywhere in the past unless we are talking about a situation where scoring points was rare for the team and one driver managed a freak result somewhere.

Some of Ayrton Senna's team mates come close with Andretti scoring 9.59% of Senna's total in 1993 and Nakajima scoring 12.28% of Ayrtons' 1987 points tally.

But the winner of the worst team mate to Ayrton competition is Johnny Dumfries who only scored 3 points against Senna's 55 in 1986. But even this is 5.45% so more than what Massa has managed against Alonso so far. Not to mention that Johnny managed several 7th and 9th place finishes, which would score him more points with current system. Massa would still be at zero with the old system.

Now, I know you can't really make fair comparison between different periods, but just for fun, please share similar driver combinations with huge result differences from F1 history. Some points against no points combos are of course also allowed, but it would be preferable if the points scoring driver did it multiple times. Scoring 1 point against 0 isn't really such a big feat.

1972 Lotus - Emerson Fittipaldi (61 points and WDC) versus Dave Walker (0 points)

Edited by garoidb, 13 May 2012 - 18:31.

[rdebourbon]

Can I suggest you redo your comparisons taking into account the points per race for each era you mention.. OR recalculate differences using current points - You may then find that the comparisons paint a much different picture of relative performance...

[scheivlak]

Fittipaldi versus Dave Walker 1972 comes to mind: 61 & WDC versus 0!

Clark 54 (in fact 72!) & WDC versus Trevor Taylor 1 in 1963, also Lotus, deserves a mention as well......

[SirRacer]

Now, I know you can't really make fair comparison between different periods

In fact, doing it in this era, which is the most competitive ever, has even more merit IMO

[Fergo]

I'm not sure about the numbers but Hamilton and Kovalainen deserve a mention, more so in 09.

[Outsider]

1999 Williams - R. Schumacher 35-Zanardi 0, old pointsystem 10-6-4-3-2-1

[Lights]

2005 BAR-Honda, Button 37 - 1 Sato

Button scored these 37 points in 10 consecutive races.

Edited by Lights, 13 May 2012 - 18:44.

[crooky369]

Off the top of my head Alex Zanardi getting zero points compared to Ralf Schumachers 35 in 1999 must be one of the worst in recent history.

[blackonyx4]

Irvine destroyed his teammate in 1997. His teammate didn't even deserve to appear on official standings.

[rog]

2009 Rosberg vs Nakajima 34.5 vs 0 points (10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1)

[Birelman]

[phil1993]

In 2009, Nico Rosberg scored about 30 odd points while Kazuki Nakajima failed to score.

Same with Fernando Alonso vs Piquet Jr/Grosjean in '09.

[Muppetmad]

In 2010 you had RK and VP with 136 points vs 27 points. In fact, if Kubica had sat out every race after Malaysia - race 3 - then he would still have beaten Petrov by 3 points.

[timmy bolt]

Let's not forget that in older era with only the top 6 scoring, Massa would currently have 0 points.

[Eff One 2002]

One of the previous threads that mentioned Senna's 1993 season made me think of this, because to me this was one of the most, if not the most notable even if Andretti did miss the last 3 races scoring 7 points to Senna's 73. Another notable one was the arse-kicking Frentzen administered to Hill in 1999 scoring 54 points to Hill's 7. What team-mate dominators stood out for you in the history of F1?

[Henri Greuter]

One of the previous threads that mentioned Senna's 1993 season made me think of this, because to me this was one of the most, if not the most notable even if Andretti did miss the last 3 races scoring 7 points to Senna's 73. Another notable one was the arse-kicking Frentzen administered to Hill in 1999 scoring 54 points to Hill's 7. What team-mate dominators stood out for you in the history of F1?

Forgot the year and who did it. I believe Ralf Schumacher: Zanardi at Williams coming from CART titles and seen as a hero and failing to score a single point while his team mate did score points.
Still can't believe that happening given his achievements in CART.
And I liked him so I hoped he would at least show something.

Henri

[Zava]

2009 Rosberg 34.5 : 0 Nakajima was pretty nice.
2008 Vettel 35 : 4 Bourdais as well.

but my favourite will always be 2005, Kimi 112 : 60 Montoya, because of a ******** Montoya fan, Raikkönen hater pal of mine

[Eff One 2002]

2009 Rosberg 34.5 : 0 Nakajima was pretty nice.
2008 Vettel 35 : 4 Bourdais as well.

but my favourite will always be 2005, Kimi 112 : 60 Montoya, because of a ******** Montoya fan, Raikkönen hater pal of mine

Shuddap.

[ViMaMo]

Button- Perez

-------------

MotoGP: This year Lorenzo- Spies. 350-88. Ben scored only 1/4th of what Lorenzo scored. Just for the perspective, if Lorenzo was winning a race (25 points), Spies was 10th (6 points). Thats how bad it was for the American. Feel bad for him.

Edited by ViMaMo, 14 December 2012 - 09:11.

[noikeee]

Didn't Jim Clark had a team-mate who scored nothing whilst he was champion?

Also Satoru Nakajima and Johnny Dumfries had piss poor records next to Ayrton Senna in Lotus, seasons 1987 and 1986 respectively.

[03011969]

Button- Perez

How many more points than Button do you think Perez will get...

(Only joking Jenson, I'm a fan...)

[midgrid]

In 1972, Emerson Fittipaldi became champion, whilst Lotus team-mate Dave Walker scored no points.

[Borko]

Kubica destroyed Petrov pretty badly in 2010, 136-27 (52-9 under the old scoring system).

Alonso 133, Fisichella 58 in 2005 (322-137)

Michael Schumacher 78, Irvine 24 in 1997 (229-95)

Michael Schumacher 92, Verstappen and JJ Lehto 11 in 1994 (236-61)

Ralf Schumacher 35, Alex Zanardi 0 in 1999 (140-15)

Jenson Button 37, Takuma Sato 1 in 2005 (97-7)

Edited by BorkoF2012, 14 December 2012 - 09:49.

[Anderis]

In 1970 Rindt destroyed John Miles.

From recent time: Kubica was quite convincing ahead of Petrov in 2010. And Alonso ahead of Piquet Jr in 2009.

[Henrik B]

Kimi versus anyone else after Massas accident.

[Jimisgod]

Didn't Jim Clark had a team-mate who scored nothing whilst he was champion?

Also Satoru Nakajima and Johnny Dumfries had piss poor records next to Ayrton Senna in Lotus, seasons 1987 and 1986 respectively.

Almost. Had it not been for Clark's gearbox dramas at Monaco, Taylor would have scored zero.

1963: WDC Clark 73 (reduced to 54 due to rules) v. Taylor 1

That would be 212 - 17 if today's points system were used (212 points from 10 races!).

1965: WDC Clark 54 - Spence 10

1967: Clark 41 - Double WDC Graham Hill 15. This one probably shows Clark's talent best.

Edited by Jimisgod, 14 December 2012 - 10:29.

[pUs]

Agree about Ralf Schumacher in 1999, that was really strange. Probably one of Ralfs absolutely best seasons ever though.

[Anderis]

Kimi versus anyone else after Massas accident.

Yes. The gap between Kimi and Badoer was huge. But this is understandable given the circumstances.

[noikeee]

Almost. Had it not been for Clark's gearbox dramas at Monaco, Taylor would have scored zero.

1963: WDC Clark 73 (reduced to 54 due to rules) v. Taylor 1

That would be 212 - 17 if today's points system were used (212 points from 10 races!).

1965: WDC Clark 54 - Spence 10

1967: Clark 41 - Double WDC Graham Hill 15. This one probably shows Clark's talent best.

Yeah that's impressive to say the least, but I was thinking of this instead, for some reason my brain thought it was Clark instead of Fittipaldi:

In 1972, Emerson Fittipaldi became champion, whilst Lotus team-mate Dave Walker scored no points.

We're seeing a bit of a Lotus pattern though, there's this too:

In 1970 Rindt destroyed John Miles.

And the Nakajima/Dumfries non-battles vs Senna in the 80s that I mentioned. Lotus really did like a clear #1.

Similarly Nelson Piquet had a lot of fun not having to worry about Ricardo Zunino and Hector Rebaque in the early 80s Brabham.. I'm too lazy to go search for the numbers but those were ridiculous scores too

[Jimisgod]

Yeah that's impressive to say the least, but I was thinking of this instead, for some reason my brain thought it was Clark instead of Fittipaldi:



We're seeing a bit of a Lotus pattern though, there's this too:



And the Nakajima/Dumfries non-battles vs Senna in the 80s that I mentioned. Lotus really did like a clear #1.

Similarly Nelson Piquet had a lot of fun not having to worry about Ricardo Zunino and Hector Rebaque in the early 80s Brabham.. I'm too lazy to go search for the numbers but those were ridiculous scores too

1980: Piquet 54 - Ricardo Zunino and Hector Rebaque 1

Zunino managed to not qualify for Monaco, where Nelson finished 3rd. In 1981 Rebaque did not qualify again at Monaco, and Nelson was on pole.

[Don_Humpador]

Dammit, if you hadn't said 'teammate' there'd be a Max Mosley in here.

Pah.

[eronrules]

in terms of getting whipped by WDC team mates

first place : Rubens barichello

Second place: Mark webber

[Realyn]

I'm actually thinking of 2012 and 2011 here. Those numbers are no 54-0 but we are closer to a spec series we have ever been.

K. Räikkönen 207 R. Grosjean 96
F. Alonso 278 F. Massa 122 (Add some points Massa had to give away)
Sebastian Vettel 392 Mark Webber 258 (Coming third to Button)

Put those teammates(maybe except Webber) into the 2008 Torro Rosso and you'll get the same result Vettel had with Bourdais. One will score points, one is allways, even if closely, failing to score points.

Edited by Realyn, 14 December 2012 - 11:17.

[Mr.Wayne]

Yes. The gap between Kimi and Badoer was huge. But this is understandable given the circumstances.

Between Kimi and Luca yeah, the gap was understandable.
What wasn't that easy to understand was that the gap between Kimi and Fisi was also gigantic! In fact, their on-track performance was even more distinct than between Alonso-Fisi during Renault's championship years.

[Tombstone]

in terms of getting whipped by WDC team mates

first place : Rubens barichello

Second place: Mark webber

Both rather recent though.

Anyhoo, here's a couple more...

'76: Hunt 69* (WDC), Mass 19 (9th)
'85: Prost 73(76) (WDC), Lauda 14 (10th)


* How very appropriate for Hunt to score that number of points.

[eronrules]

Both rather recent though.

Anyhoo, here's a couple more...

'76: Hunt 69* (WDC), Mass 19 (9th)
'85: Prost 73(76) (WDC), Lauda 14 (10th)


* How very appropriate for Hunt to score that number of points.

i was actually counting the no. of WDCs, rather than points

Schumacher 5 - Barichello 0

Vettel 3 - Webber 0

Mika 2 - Coulthard 0

i don't think no other team mate pairings come close to these (well may be 2 times couple of times)

[2ms]

Nobody in history has destroyed as many teammates as comprehensively as Kimi except for during the couple years at Ferrari after Ferrari had already signed an agreement with Santander to "go Latin" in 2010.

[BRG]

Nobody in history has destroyed as many teammates as comprehensively as Kimi except for during the couple years at Ferrari after Ferrari had already signed an agreement with Santander to "go Latin" in 2010.

Not to mention 2001 and 2002...

[Eff One 2002]

* How very appropriate for Hunt to score that number of points.

Indeed.

[gillesthegenius]

Just joking...

Going by percentages, Fernando Alonso once scored 0% of what his team mate, a certain Tarso Marques, scored.

[discover23]

Nobody in history has destroyed as many teammates as comprehensively as Kimi except for during the couple years at Ferrari after Ferrari had already signed an agreement with Santander to "go Latin" in 2010.

In 2007 Ferrari had no agreement with Santander and that year he did not comprehensively beat Massa, they were neck and neck. Some tracks kimi was better at others Massa was better. Actually right before Monza, where Massa had a car failure, Massa was ahead of Kimi on points.

[BackOnTop]

In 2007 Ferrari had no agreement with Santander and that year he did not comprehensively beat Massa, they were neck and neck. Some tracks kimi was better at others Massa was better. Actually right before Monza, where Massa had a car failure, Massa was ahead of Kimi on points.

Maybe that's because Kimi made winning the WDC 2007 his "Priority".... instead of winning of the "useless" teammate war!!!

Ask Alonso... who does that for 3 years now, and still is possibily the saddest man in Formula 1 right now.

Edited by BackOnTop, 15 December 2012 - 07:10.

[scheivlak]

Just joking...

Going by percentages, Fernando Alonso once scored 0% of what his team mate, a certain Tarso Marques, scored.

By percentages? Scored?

0 divided by 0 isn't 0.00.... http://www.khanacade...d-indeterminate

[BetaVersion]

Nobody in history has destroyed as many teammates as comprehensively as Kimi except for during the couple years at Ferrari after Ferrari had already signed an agreement with Santander to "go Latin" in 2010.

Pathetic fanboy post

Alonso >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimi

Santander is just an excuse used by poor Kimi fans because the finn was slower than even Massa.

Plus, I remember many Qs in which Coulthard was up there, if not faster, than Kimi.

In summary, Kimi Raikkonen: the most overated driver ever

[eronrules]

Pathetic fanboy post

Alonso >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimi

Santander is just an excuse used by poor Kimi fans because the finn was slower than even Massa.

Plus, I remember many Qs in which Coulthard was up there, if not faster, than Kimi.

In summary, Kimi Raikkonen: the most overated driver ever

pathetic fanboy reply to a fanboy post ...


both alonso and kimi are good in their own circumstances, except one doesn't talk much and the other doesn't shut up, and the politics part, and samurai gladiator part


P.S define overrated driver before using that word, by that account, every driver described by his loyal fans is overrated to other drivers fanboys

Edited by eronrules, 15 December 2012 - 20:28.

[Jimisgod]

Pathetic fanboy post

Alonso >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kimi

Santander is just an excuse used by poor Kimi fans because the finn was slower than even Massa.

Plus, I remember many Qs in which Coulthard was up there, if not faster, than Kimi.

In summary, Kimi Raikkonen: the most overated driver ever

Massa was never the same after the spring to the head. He was close to Kimi for 2 and a half years, and this was the Kimi that demolished JPM.

[gillesthegenius]

By percentages? Scored?

0 divided by 0 isn't 0.00.... http://www.khanacade...d-indeterminate

I thought Tarso scored a point in 2001. Apparently not. So an epic fail from me.

[BetaVersion]

pathetic fanboy reply to a fanboy post ...


both alonso and kimi are good in their own circumstances, except one doesn't talk much and the other doesn't shut up, and the politics part, and samurai gladiator part


P.S define overrated driver before using that word, by that account, every driver described by his loyal fans is overrated to other drivers fanboys

You missed the point of my post.

Obviously it had some exagerations to counterattack the trolling post of worse taste of fanboyism nature.

Hyping Kimi, or any driver, have little to do with this thread. This was just to reasonably discuss biggest differences between team mates and not say it was because "driver x" is god.

No driver in F1 is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better than other, I guess that should be pretty obvious to anyone and it was just a figurative language to upset hardcore(and trollers) Kimi fans so they leave this thread alone.