152 replies to this topic

[Kvothe]

http://www.dailymoti...acher-s-weekend

Edit: FP3 incident between Lewis and Michael, from my point of view I think Michael got away with it and I feel there is no place in F1 over this kind of stunt, which could have easily resulted in an accident. Perhaps it would have been justified had Lewis done something on a similar scale (although I would say a reprisal is never justified) but it was a free practice session with nothing really at stake, and Micheal's move seemed completely disproportionate in relation to the incident and the context it was in. Michael may be a man under pressure, and may be having a run of bad luck, but this was over the line, and I hope it gets brought up in the driver's briefing. What was interesting was Lewis' complete lack of reaction, both during and after the incident, as Karun Chandock said there's respect for his acheivements but no one is in awe and i wonder how much the non-plussed reaction affected him.

Edited by MightyMoose, 20 May 2012 - 14:34.
Removed: Lewis would definitely have got a penalty for doing this down.gif

[kosmos]

The fact is if Schumacher is held to a different standard (which he isn't) his behaviour during his career in F1 probably warrants it.


http://www.dailymoti...acher-s-weekend

One thing is to wave the hand but this is not acceptable.

[ivand911]

One thing is to wave the hand but this is not acceptable.

As is not acceptable to hinder people in their fast laps. I guess what MS did is acceptable, because stewards did nothing.

Edited by ivand911, 19 May 2012 - 13:39.

[undersquare]

Lewis would definitely have got a penalty for doing this

http://www.dailymoti...acher-s-weekend

Yeah that was appalling. Schumi started his comeback at his first pre-season test holding up Lewis for 5-6 laps 'for fun' didn't he? Draw your own conclusions.

[TeamMacca]

Lewis would definitely have got a penalty for doing this

http://www.dailymoti...acher-s-weekend

No penalty for that, Lewis would have had the book thrown at him.

[CodeRacing]

Lewis would definitely have got a penalty for doing this

http://www.dailymoti...acher-s-weekend

absolutely pathetic from shumacher....what a joke stewarding decision

[SCUDmissile]

That is pretty disgusting. Props for Lewis avoiding the collision though, he wouldn't have had much time to think about it.
Maybe Lewis was holding Schumi, up, but you don't do that kind of thing, ever.

[tifosiMac]

absolutely pathetic from shumacher....what a joke stewarding decision

I'm astonished he more or less got away with doing that! What a moronic thing to do and pretty dangerous for himself and Lewis.

[CodeRacing]

I cant believe Shumacher got just a reprimand for that. What makes it such a disgrace is that Lewis would have been fined and grid dropped, and you would have had Mark Webber flapping his gums along with the other drivers hinting at a tougher sentence.....yet Shumacher in contrast gets a slap on the wrist.

[tifosiMac]

I cant believe Shumacher got just a reprimand for that. What makes it such a disgrace is that Lewis would have been fined and grid dropped, and you would have had Mark Webber flapping his gums along with the other drivers hinting at a tougher sentence.....yet Shumacher in contrast gets a slap on the wrist.

Its just one of those things I think. We've seen other incidents recently that have been lenient and others that have had the book thrown at the driver. Lewis has been lucky and unlucky in the past too. This really was an obvious incident however and the stewards should feel very embarrassed by the decision IMO.

[Kvothe]

I completely agree with all of the expressed sentiments above.

I do wonder how much of a role (if any) this incident played in the 5 place penalty grid drop he received for Monaco, which was arguably a bit harsh for a racing incident regardless of attribution of fault...my hope is a lot.

[P123]

Neither of them hindered the other from what I can see from the vid. A bit of an overreaction from Schumacher, but that's about it.

Although... MS did cut the track without good reason on his way to the pits. I thought that sort of thing was being stamped down on this season, or is it only in qualifying?

Edited by P123, 19 May 2012 - 17:30.

[CodeRacing]

Neither of them hindered the other from what I can see from the vid. A bit of an overreaction from Schumacher, but that's about it.

Quite an UNDERstatement, had Hamilton been less aware, they would've crashed. That's reckless endangerment in my book, hardly a 'little' overreaction....if F1 is always so concerned about the safety of its drivers, incidents like this can not and should not be tolerated. Appalling stuff.

Edited by CodeRacing, 19 May 2012 - 17:44.

[P123]

Quite an overstatement, had Hamilton been less aware, they would've crashed. That's reckless endangerment in my book, hardly a 'little' overreaction....if F1 is always so concerned about the safety of its drivers, incidents like this can not and should not be tolerated. Appalling stuff.

Don't you mean an understatement? Yeah, Schumacher's intent was dangerous but he thankfully only ended up looking like a twit himself.

Edited by P123, 19 May 2012 - 17:33.

[Muppetmad]

I think it says a lot about the justness of F1's rules when Schumacher can pull a stunt like that and only get a reprimand, whilst Hamilton runs out of fuel due to an unintentional error in the pits and gets disqualified from qualifying.

[seahawk]

lEwiswould have gotten a race ban for that. Schumacher gets nothing. draw your own conclusions.

[Kvothe]

Don't you mean an understatement?;) Yeah, Schumacher's intent was dangerous but he thankfully only ended up looking like a twit himself.

Yes but if your looking at it in terms of what the concequences could have been, then it was very dangerous. With the Maldonaldo incident in Spa and now this, the stewards are setting a dangerous precedent in terms of on track reprisal and in my view this is something that needs to be stamped down upon. What's also notable is that the victim in both of these cases was Lewis Hamilton who it seems has ofter been harshly treated by the stewards. It really does begger belief that we have had drivers given penalties for moving slightly left and right down a straight or losing a front wing in a collision and only hurting themselves (Alonso) yet a deliberate act such as this only recieves a reprimand...where is the consistency?

I've also edited the OP above.

[Fourjays]

Interesting thing is they said on the F1 Show that the penalty was for him taking the old bit of track and not for the dangerous driving.

[Mandzipop]

As a Ferrari fan and who used to worship Schumacher, I still have a soft spot for him, but that is irresponsible and deserved more than a reprimand. A lot more, it was downright dangerous. Thank goodness Lewis was on the ball.

[Clatter]

I completely agree with all of the expressed sentiments above.

I do wonder how much of a role (if any) this incident played in the 5 place penalty grid drop he received for Monaco, which was arguably a bit harsh for a racing incident regardless of attribution of fault...my hope is a lot.

None. The grid penalty was correctly applied for P$$$ poor piece of driving in the race itself.

[AMG FAN]

As is not acceptable to hinder people in their fast laps. I guess what MS did is acceptable, because stewards did nothing.

why should Lewis move over if he is also on his fast lap? it's practice,Micheal should have backed off,i can't remember the incident but if he was going to pit anyway then what's he moaning about? anyway it was very very wrong of Schumacher,i can't stand people that want to use a car as a weapon...just because the stewards didn't punish him doesn't mean it's right.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I wonder if it makes a difference because it happened in practice.

[Watkins74]

If it was poor Lewis....

[P123]

Yes but if your looking at it in terms of what the concequences could have been, then it was very dangerous. With the Maldonaldo incident in Spa and now this, the stewards are setting a dangerous precedent in terms of on track reprisal and in my view this is something that needs to be stamped down upon. What's also notable is that the victim in both of these cases was Lewis Hamilton who it seems has ofter been harshly treated by the stewards. It really does begger belief that we have had drivers given penalties for moving slightly left and right down a straight or losing a front wing in a collision and only hurting themselves (Alonso) yet a deliberate act such as this only recieves a reprimand...where is the consistency?

I've also edited the OP above.

I agree with you regards the inconsistency in stewarding- such as a penalty for Schumacher squeezing RB at the Hungaroring yet nothing for Rosberg squeezing Hamilton and Alonso at Bahrain. It's 'deliberate crowding', in the same paragraph of rules that prohibit weaving yet is largely ignored by stewards (an even more dangerous example was Kobayashi on Nakajima at Brazil '09- crazy driving). It's shouldn't matter what is beyond the lines of the track.... As for LH, he has been lucky and unlucky with the stewards. You do realise that there will be now be a rush of people to tell you that he never gets punished for anything, ever..... harumph!

[D.M.N.]

I wonder if it makes a difference because it happened in practice.

Wasn't there an incident a few years back, I think Hungary '06 where Alonso brake tested Doornbos and he was thrown 5 places down the grid? Schumacher got a similar penalty that weekend, but I can't remember if that was for brake testing as well.

[Diablobb81]

Lewis was also driving slowly when Michael cut in front of him. Stop whining and exaggerating. Nothing could have happened.

Edited by Diablobb81, 19 May 2012 - 17:52.

[tifosiMac]

If it was poor Lewis....

Come on now lets not stoke that fire. Regardless of who the driver was exiting that corner, it was a deliberate brake test by Schumacher and as serious as we have seen in recent times where drivers have been punished for dangerous driving etc. This is one of those polls where the vast majority of people whether they are fans of Schumacher or not will agree he was wrong in the course of action he took. If he had a problem with Lewis holding him up, then it needed to be brought to the attention of the stewards rather than acting as jury himself IMO. If anyone does vote 'No' in this poll, I doubt they'll admit it here.

[sharo]

Can someone tell me where Lewis is with respect to MS when the latter got to the old track part?

[as65p]

Wasn't there an incident a few years back, I think Hungary '06 where Alonso brake tested Doornbos and he was thrown 5 places down the grid? Schumacher got a similar penalty that weekend, but I can't remember if that was for brake testing as well.

No, that was for overtaking Kubica and Alonso under yellows.

[tifosiMac]

Can someone tell me where Lewis is with respect to MS when the latter got to the old track part?

Lewis was going through the final 2 corners of the new layout. The last corner where Schumacher was blocking the apex is a fast acceleration zone where drivers prepare for the main straight.

[wingwalker]

Woah, that's way beyond the line indeed. Surprising he got away with it.

Alonso got a grid penalty for this in 2006:

No, that was for overtaking Kubica and Alonso under yellows.

I think it was a red flag, but I wouldn't bet on that.

Edited by wingwalker, 19 May 2012 - 17:58.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Alonso is worse, imo.

[robefc]

As a Ferrari and who used to worship Schumacher, I still have a soft spot for him, but that is irresponsible and deserved more than a reprimand. A lot more, it was downright dangerous. Thank goodness Lewis was on the ball.

My god, cars posting about drivers, this is bizarre!

Completely agree with you although I think the discussion in this thread would be far more constructive if people didn't bring Lewis penalty paranoia into it (not aimed at you obviously)

[sharo]

Lewis was going through the final 2 corners of the new layout. The last corner where Schumacher was blocking the apex is a fast acceleration zone where drivers prepare for the main straight.

Your answer is not clear. Does it mean Lewis was in front of MS before the chicane?

[robefc]

Your answer is not clear. Does it mean Lewis was in front of MS before the chicane?

Yes, MS used the of layout to get ahead and then parked his car on the apex.

[tifosiMac]

Your answer is not clear. Does it mean Lewis was in front of MS before the chicane?

Yes, Lewis was infront of Michael going into the last two corners when Michael decided to cut out that section by using the old track layout. He comes out infront of Lewis and slows on the apex of the final corner to get his point across. Quite dangerous behaviour IMO.

[Pits]

Well, I don't mind them breaking the rules ones or twice.
Nothing happend really and the stewards didn't penalize him.
So let it go, **** happens often...

[Kvothe]

My god, cars posting about drivers, this is bizarre!

Completely agree with you although I think the discussion in this thread would be far more constructive if people didn't bring Lewis penalty paranoia into it (not aimed at you obviously)

To be fair originally my post was in the LH thread, and so that's why I included that point about Lewis possibly getting penalty for doing it. After it was turned in to its own seperate thread I edited the OP to present a more reasonable and constructive point of view to help facilitate the debate.

[sharo]

Yes, Lewis was infront of Michael going into the last two corners when Michael decided to cut out that section by using the old track layout. He comes out infront of Lewis and slows on the apex of the final corner to get his point across. Quite dangerous behaviour IMO.

It's practice.
And, Michael wouldn't go out of the track for no reason.


Edit: And I think this thread is started quite deliberately just to blow things out of proportion.

Edited by sharo, 19 May 2012 - 18:10.

[undersquare]

Wasn't there an incident a few years back, I think Hungary '06 where Alonso brake tested Doornbos and he was thrown 5 places down the grid? Schumacher got a similar penalty that weekend, but I can't remember if that was for brake testing as well.

Shumi's was for overtaking under a red flag - overtaking Alonso who set him up by slowing to a crawl!

IMO Alonso's brake test was not really the danger it was made out to be. I suspect the stewards had second thoughts too and that's why they went for Nando's play and put MS back with him.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Hate to be pedantic, but he didn't really park it, he just slowed down a lot.

[as65p]

I think it was a red flag, but I wouldn't bet on that.

Yeah, don't remember hundred percent either if red or yellow. No brake test, in any case.

[tifosiMac]

It's practice.
And, Michael wouldn't go out of the track for no reason.

Michael evidently felt Lewis was holding him up but I don't see your point? Are drivers allowed to go as slow as they like in practice and hinder others? In that case why was Michael complaining about a slower driver when he did exactly what he was complaining about to Lewis? If Lewis was at fault then Mercedes should have brought it to the attention of the stewards.

[sharo]

Yeah, don't remember hundred percent either if red or yellow. No brake test, in any case.

The brake test was before and Alonso was already penalized, but he was very quick to take advantage of the situation and to trick Schumacher into overtaking under red which was declared just at that moment.

[D.M.N.]

Edit: And I think this thread is started quite deliberately just to blow things out of proportion.

There was posts on this in both the Lewis and Michael threads, so I split the thread. Normal protocol when things are discussed in multiple threads to prevent a large overlap of posts/discussion.

[tifosiMac]

Hate to be pedantic, but he didn't really park it, he just slowed down a lot.

Lewis did have to take evasive action by swerving around him though at around 70mph. We've seen alot less dangerous incidents attract 200 pages on here where other drivers are concerned, why is this all hush hush?

[Fox1]

It's practice.
And, Michael wouldn't go out of the track for no reason.


Edit: And I think this thread is started quite deliberately just to blow things out of proportion.

What Michael did was leave the track deliberately and return with the intention of impeding another car at the apex of the corner. Doesn't make a difference when he did it during the weekend.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Lewis did have to take evasive action by swerving around him though at around 70mph. We've seen alot less dangerous incidents attract 200 pages on here where other drivers are concerned, why is this all hush hush?

It's not hush hush, let's just not exaggerate what happened.

[sharo]

Michael evidently felt Lewis was holding him up but I don't see your point? Are drivers allowed to go as slow as they like in practice and hinder others? In that case why was Michael complaining about a slower driver when he did exactly what he was complaining about to Lewis? If Lewis was at fault then Mercedes should have brought it to the attention of the stewards.

My point is that we are discussing a short period of time without knowing what has taken place before that.
Also, I think that if Lewis was at no fault at all, he'd be quite vocal.
Think what you like, but I see no reason to continue in this thread.

[Kvothe]

It's practice.
And, Michael wouldn't go out of the track for no reason.


Edit: And I think this thread is started quite deliberately just to blow things out of proportion.

No he wouldn't, which is what we're discussing.

Edited by Kvothe, 19 May 2012 - 18:18.