4010 replies to this topic

[mprtc]

Do you REALLY want to see NK in the same car as Vettel? Have you REALLY thougt that through in your attempts to prove "OWNAGE"?

NK did indeed prove that he is much, much dumber than even the smartest driver on the grid could have expected, that much is true.

can vettel win in HRT ??? can vettel come 4th in HRT ???


never seen a world champion who does not even know basics of overtaking ... he won in 2010 , 2011 where he need not do much overtakings ... now his overtaking skills have been exposed

[jamiegc]

never seen a world champion who does not even know basics of overtaking ... he won in 2010 , 2011 where he need not do much overtakings ... now his overtaking skills have been exposed

Quite.

[mprtc]

Quite.

so what ??? i'll post a video of aryton senna crashing and say ' look !!! senna is such a bad driver '

[Diablobb81]

Good his lack of overtaking skills are exposed while lapping a cucumber, who was at fault for the incident.

[Tsarwash]

Quite.

What a move. I hadn't seen that before, thanks.

Um, Vettel should have kept his idiot comments to himself, because it didn't make him look good at all. It was a racing incident, with both at fault in my mind.

[mprtc]

SUPER SEB ... Everyone should see this !!!

[sosidge]

can vettel win in HRT ??? can vettel come 4th in HRT ???


never seen a world champion who does not even know basics of overtaking ... he won in 2010 , 2011 where he need not do much overtakings ... now his overtaking skills have been exposed

When did NK win in HRT or come 4th in HRT... or even come 11th? I must have missed those GPs, and I thought I was an enthusiast...

SV's overtaking skills are fine. It is NKs skills as a driver that are the problem. Either NK doesn't know how to behave when he is being lapped, or he doesn't have the skill to keep his car under control when he is being lapped.

His attitude after the indcident - claiming that the leading drivers take the mickey out of the lapped traffic - shows that he has a chip on his shoulder about being the slowest driver in the slowest car on the grid. It must be tough to justify that to the sponsors that are paying millions for his seat.

[Zava]

so what ??? i'll post a video of aryton senna crashing and say ' look !!! senna is such a bad driver '

you should as that's what you just did with Vettel.

[mprtc]

When did NK win in HRT or come 4th in HRT... or even come 11th? I must have missed those GPs, and I thought I was an enthusiast...

SV's overtaking skills are fine. It is NKs skills as a driver that are the problem. Either NK doesn't know how to behave when he is being lapped, or he doesn't have the skill to keep his car under control when he is being lapped.

His attitude after the indcident - claiming that the leading drivers take the mickey out of the lapped traffic - shows that he has a chip on his shoulder about being the slowest driver in the slowest car on the grid. It must be tough to justify that to the sponsors that are paying millions for his seat.

i know vettel is frustrated that he is not getting clear traffic as he used to get .... he is spoilt kid after 2 seasons and thinks he owns the track ... he has forgotten he was also driving for one of the smaller teams once ... but success changes so many as a person .. he wants everyone to just dissapear from his eyesight when he is driving ... and then calls others as stupid and cucumber ... shows vettle's standards .... see the videos of this incidents on youtube and read the comments of viewers and you will know what most people think of this spoilt kid

[sosidge]

so what ??? i'll post a video of aryton senna crashing and say ' look !!! senna is such a bad driver '

So, judging by your logic, if you post a video of Ayrton Senna crashing it doesn't prove he was a bad driver, but if you post a video of Sebastian Vettel crashing then it absolutley DOES prove he is a bad driver?

This is the Ayrton Senna who deliberately took Prost off the track at Suzuka, compared to the Vettel who accidentally made contact with Webber at Turkey, right?

If you could find some footage of 1996 Formula Asia champion not being hopeless, that would be nice to see as well.

[sosidge]

i know vettel is frustrated that he is not getting clear traffic as he used to get .... he is spoilt kid after 2 seasons and thinks he owns the track ... he has forgotten he was also driving for one of the smaller teams once ... but success changes so many as a person .. he wants everyone to just dissapear from his eyesight when he is driving ... and then calls others as stupid and cucumber ... shows vettle's standards .... see the videos of this incidents on youtube and read the comments of viewers and you will know what most people think of this spoilt kid

Doesn't matter what the great collective wisdom of YouTube thinks... on this occasion the stewards are in complete agreement with me... NK was wrong, he was being lapped and he turned in on Vettel, simple as that.

[Nigol]

Wow sosidge, you still have to tell everybody how good Vettel is?


It's ok. Next time Vettel will leave more space and maybe even score points again, don't worry !

[mprtc]

So, judging by your logic, if you post a video of Ayrton Senna crashing it doesn't prove he was a bad driver, but if you post a video of Sebastian Vettel crashing then it absolutley DOES prove he is a bad driver?

This is the Ayrton Senna who deliberately took Prost off the track at Suzuka, compared to the Vettel who accidentally made contact with Webber at Turkey, right?

If you could find some footage of 1996 Formula Asia champion not being hopeless, that would be nice to see as well.

its not once incident ... the incident with webber in turkey has to be the dumbest incident i have ever seen when 2 cars of same team collided with each other when overtaking was not needed and incident could have been avoided easily ...

[sosidge]

Wow sosidge, you still have to tell everybody how good Vettel is?


It's ok. Next time Vettel will leave more space and maybe even score points again, don't worry !

Are you still coming in here trying to blame Vettel for NK's mistake?

[Zava]

its not once incident ... the incident with webber in turkey has to be the dumbest incident i have ever seen when 2 cars of same team collided with each other when overtaking was not needed and incident could have been avoided easily ...

especially funny after their comments regarding 2010 turkey, "we're two great world champions who would never ever collide with each other because we know how to race"

Edited by Zava, 27 March 2012 - 09:43.

[sosidge]

its not once incident ... the incident with webber in turkey has to be the dumbest incident i have ever seen when 2 cars of same team collided with each other when overtaking was not needed and incident could have been avoided easily ...

No. the NK incident was much, much dumber. Because NK was being lapped.

[mprtc]

No. the NK incident was much, much dumber. Because NK was being lapped.

so NK should stop racing ???


should NK 100 % times look into mirror ??? even when he is through fast corner ???

[krea]

so NK should stop racing ???


should NK 100 % times look into mirror ??? even when he is through fast corner ???

thats his job.

[baddog]

so NK should stop racing ???


should NK 100 % times look into mirror ??? even when he is through fast corner ???

If he needs to look in his mirror to see the rear tyre of a car that already passed him then he should hand it in. As it is he made a small error of judgement and caused an incident. It happens a lot with inexperienced drivers, especially when their car is a handful to drive at all. He should have shut up and accepted the blame once he saw the video.

[Zava]

so NK should stop racing ???


should NK 100 % times look into mirror ??? even when he is through fast corner ???

why should he? Vettel was already ahead when the cucumber hit him.

and actually yes, NK should have no seat, but not (just) based on his last race.

[Nigol]

Are you still coming in here trying to blame Vettel for NK's mistake?

I'm not blaming anyone.

It is just like when you use a crosswalk without looking for cars, and then a bus comes and hits you.
Maybe you were entiteld to cross the road and the bus driver is 100% at fault. But still - you are in hospital, thinking 'why the hell didn't I look for cars?'

Edited by Nigol, 27 March 2012 - 09:49.

[sosidge]

so NK should stop racing ???


should NK 100 % times look into mirror ??? even when he is through fast corner ???

No, he should look in front of him. Because that is were Vettel was when he hit him.

And if NK is off the grid (again) it will be no great loss to the sport. He has never been competitive in an F1 car, so he must have some very compromising information about senior Indian businessmen in order to keep getting them to buy him a seat. Because putting "Tata" on the slowest car on the grid with the slowest driver at the wheel isn't the best publicity for the brand.

[LoudHoward]

its not once incident ... the incident with webber in turkey has to be the dumbest incident i have ever seen when 2 cars of same team collided with each other when overtaking was not needed and incident could have been avoided easily ...

Yes, where two cars were side by side, not a lot of space but enough if they both kept going in a straight line from when they were side by side, and then one moved over and they crashed. Turkey was Sebs fault and Malaysia was Narains. You're blaming Seb for both incidents even though in each one he's being the opposite party...

The facts are pretty simple, Seb gave Narain the racing line, he gave another half a car width of space beyond the racing line. He didn't swerve or jink or anything, at the speed they were going he was going to clear Narain comfortably if the latter stayed on the racing line. Narain lost control of his car (so he says), got wheelspin, jinked his car off the racing line and hit Seb.

Those are the simple facts as I see them. Obviously in the examples above, Webber or Seb could've given more room and probably avoided an incident, but that doesn't assign them any blame and you could say that about any of even the most one sided crashes in history. It's F1, Webber and Seb both gave racing room and the person they were racing failed. Simple as that. There is no blame for the incident at their feet.

Frankly, the idea that Seb was being a jerk with Narain (with regards to the incident) is almost laughable, what kind of jerk is it? "Yer, you have the racing line, the dry racing line, I'll stay over here on the damper stuff because I'm evil and all that!". No one seems to give a hoot about Hamilton nor Glock shoving the HRT off onto the wet, and then off onto the astroturf, moments before, and nor should they, it's racing. Seb gives him the racing line and he's the devil. I don't understand it.

P.S: I'm a Webber fan, and a founding and lifetime member of the Vettel Hate Club, started after Fuji '07.

[puxanando]

This weekend Red Bull will have a Talk with Vettel in Milton Keynes about "Radio" and other things which happend in Sepang!

[gillesthegenius]

you should as that's what you just did with Vettel.

Talk about irony.

[flyer121]

were they all in same car ???


ask vettel to drive HRT and come 11 th ... then we will see .... vettel was trying to be smart but infact karthikeyan proved him wrong

But last time he was in similar conditions in a not far from an HRT like car - He won !!

[karlth]

But last time he was in similar conditions in a not far from an HRT like car - He won !!

Nice one centurion!

[flyer121]

When did NK win in HRT or come 4th in HRT... or even come 11th? I must have missed those GPs, and I thought I was an enthusiast...

SV's overtaking skills are fine. It is NKs skills as a driver that are the problem. Either NK doesn't know how to behave when he is being lapped, or he doesn't have the skill to keep his car under control when he is being lapped.

His attitude after the indcident - claiming that the leading drivers take the mickey out of the lapped traffic - shows that he has a chip on his shoulder about being the slowest driver in the slowest car on the grid. It must be tough to justify that to the sponsors that are paying millions for his seat.

Yep - He is the only driver who I feel is not F1 standard.

Always has trouble getting lapped even when its not raining... of course its frustrating to see when my faves are stuck and secretly enjoyable when the rivals get this moving chicane in front of them

[flyer121]

Nice one centurion!

Glad you liked it ...
... care to share what tickled you ?

[jrg19]

Glad you liked it ...
... care to share what tickled you ?

Probably the comparison of a Newey Chassis to a HRT.

[Sakae]

This weekend Red Bull will have a Talk with Vettel in Milton Keynes about "Radio" and other things which happend in Sepang!

I am sure there is post-race debriefing, and there could be one-on-one discussion between Horner/Vettel, that is to be expected, but you are making it sound much more than that. May I ask you to add more details to your initial post, please?

Edited by Sakae, 27 March 2012 - 11:15.

[flyer121]

Probably the comparison of a Newey Chassis to a HRT.

The same Newey chassis whose butt is being kicked by Lotus / Merc who have noname designers?

Anyway what is more tickle worthy is the subconcious comparison someone made between NK and SV .. Really? Seb will finish 10 positions up on average than NK in the saem crappy car

Edited by flyer121, 27 March 2012 - 11:18.

[LiJu914]

May I ask you to add more details to your initial post, please?

Unfortunately puxanando seems to be physically unable to write more than one line per post.

Edited by LiJu914, 27 March 2012 - 11:19.

[jrg19]

The same Newey chassis whose butt is being kicked by Lotus / Merc who have noname designers?

Wouldn't say the Lotus and Merc designers are no namers.

The RB8 is a very good car a Podium scorer actually.

[LiJu914]

The same Newey chassis whose butt is being kicked by Lotus / Merc who have noname designers?

Oh come on, stop it.
HRT is not even a backmarker in the same sense like Minardi was (more like a GP2 running in F1) and TR was far away from still being Minardi in terms of competitiveness.

[Sakae]

Unfortunately puxanndo seems to be physically unable to write more than one line per post.

Have a faith that some Alonso's fans can be fair and objective. I do.

[flyer121]

Wouldn't say the Lotus and Merc designers are no namers.

The RB8 is a very good car a Podium scorer actually.

I know , the point is that Newey chassis is no guarantee that it wont be a dog.

His rep has been hyped by the recent successes which had a lot to do with the drivers , the strategic team , the fuel efficient engine and even the pit stop guys !

[jrg19]

I know , the point is that Newey chassis is no guarantee that it wont be a dog.

His rep has been hyped by the recent successes which had a lot to do with the drivers , the strategic team , the fuel efficient engine and even the pit stop guys !

But he can hardly be put in the same box as HRT, right?

[puxanando]

Vettel was having comunication with the team

[flyer121]

Oh come on, stop it.
HRT is not even a backmarker in the same sense like Minardi was (more like a GP2 running in F1) and TR was far away from still being Minardi in terms of competitiveness.

OK - but people throw Newey name around as if he injects downforce in a chassis , by waving his hands.
No , the car was efficient because of the EBD (and only in Qualy where they could afford it ) , it was Seb , the team and other factors who eked out 11 wins in the races out of it.

Conclusion - In 2008 , borrowed Newey chassis for the Torro Rosso with no updates , no EBD and poorer pitwall and pitstop teams and combined with less skilled drivers (coz of less exp) , 2008 Monza could be considered as a backmarker winning ...

But we know the forum wisdom - whenever Vettel wins , its the car and the magic chassis - So its all good !

[flyer121]

But he can hardly be put in the same box as HRT, right?

Okay fine , To be fair - I said not far from an HRT.

But why compare NK and SV in teh first place ? One is a 2WDC and the other still has to learn how to get lapped properly...

[jrg19]

OK - but people throw Newey name around as if he injects downforce in a chassis , by waving his hands.
No , the car was efficient because of the EBD (and only in Qualy where they could afford it ) , it was Seb , the team and other factors who eked out 11 wins in the races out of it.

Conclusion - In 2008 , borrowed Newey chassis for the Torro Rosso with no updates , no EBD and poorer pitwall and pitstop teams and combined with less skilled drivers (coz of less exp) , 2008 Monza could be considered as a backmarker winning ...

But we know the forum wisdom - whenever Vettel wins , its the car and the magic chassis - So its all good !

But the Toro Rosso of 2008 is more comparable with the Sauber of today which got a podium the other day a bit of luck goes a long way.

Vettels drive was obviously amazing in 2008 but Vettel fan boys make out he was driving a tractor.

[rhukkas]

I know , the point is that Newey chassis is no guarantee that it wont be a dog.

His rep has been hyped by the recent successes which had a lot to do with the drivers , the strategic team , the fuel efficient engine and even the pit stop guys !

A good driver and good strategic team doesn't win you 1 second a lap over the rest of the field in qualifying. if drivers were such an important factor Vettel would still be qualifying pole. They've instead had a net loss off around 1.7 seconds.

[flyer121]

A good driver and good strategic team doesn't win you 1 second a lap over the rest of the field in qualifying. if drivers were such an important factor Vettel would still be qualifying pole. They've instead had a net loss off around 1.7 seconds.

Well, first of all it is rather optimistic of you to say 1 sec. They werent that much faster even in Q3 with full EBD blowing. They would struggle to keep pace in the race often enough.

They had a plan
- Get pole
- Get good getaway
- Pit first
- maintain position by managing the gap or hard defeiding (barca)
and Win

and everyone including Newey played a part ....

All I m saying is Newey designed chassis is not end all and be all.

Edited by flyer121, 27 March 2012 - 11:43.

[krea]

But the Toro Rosso of 2008 is more comparable with the Sauber of today which got a podium the other day a bit of luck goes a long way.

Vettels drive was obviously amazing in 2008 but Vettel fan boys make out he was driving a tractor.

The Sauber looks pretty strong.
6 + 8 in Melbourne. They are after Mclaren, Red Bull and Ferrari the best team atm.

In 2008 we had Mclaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Toyata and Red Bull with better cars than the Toro Rosso.

[puxanando]

Red Bull explained that Vettel did not hear the instructions due to a broken radio.

But photographs have emerged that show those instructions were also reflected in Vettel's end-of-lap pit boards.

And the 24-year-old let slip immediately after the race: "Of course you can save the car, but I wanted to see the chequered flag. I think that's how it should be."

Bild newspaper surmises that Vettel "ignored his bosses' orders".

Team boss Christian Horner commented: "We'll talk about it."

WEB

Horner: "Seb lets have a talk......"

Edited by puxanando, 27 March 2012 - 11:46.

[jrg19]

The Sauber looks pretty strong.
6 + 8 in Melbourne. They are after Mclaren, Red Bull and Ferrari the best team atm.

In 2008 we had Mclaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Toyata and Red Bull with better cars than the Toro Rosso.

Toro Rosso finessed ahead of RedBull in 2008 in 6th

this season we have McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Lotus, Ferrari, Sauber.

[fieraku]

Gotta say to this thread.

For the past two years it was all Vettel because we can't separate driver from car performance and also the notion that Webber had the same car and didn't deliver.

And now it's Newey who produced a dog and suddenly we can separate car and driver and we don't have to look at Webber who is 2-0 in Qualifying,because the car is a dog.

And RB8 is 5th fastest car? Well using Vettel's loyalists logic from last year,it's all Vettel so the car is a rocket,just Vettel can't drive it without EBD and a nicely mapped engine. Look at Webber right?

Funny how now we can suddenly tell it's the car which is a dog!

[maverick69]

WEB

Horner: "Seb lets have a talk......"

And the toys start to leave the pram..........

[krea]

Toro Rosso finessed ahead of RedBull in 2008 in 6th

this season we have McLaren, Mercedes, RedBull, Lotus, Ferrari, Sauber.

pretty much because of Monza and Vettel. The Red Bull got all the updates first, it was the better car.

The 2008 Toro Rosso was nothing than a lower midfield team. Without Vettel even worse than the Honda.