4010 replies to this topic

[gillesthegenius]

I don't understand this 'current Vettel meltdown', have I missed something?

You havent missed anything. You are just witnessing a desperate attempt to sling mud on Seb before he, god willing, gets back on top of his game. A case of making hay while the sun shines.

[Snic]

Oh, look : another monkey at the back having an opinion.

I think the best source to judge Vettel are his competitors.

The best way to judge a man is not by the way he treats his equals, but by the way he treats his inferiors

[gillesthegenius]

Personally, and obviously I'm biased, I think lewis was best driver in 2010 by a smidgen from alonso who was second best by a smidgen from vettel.
I think you can make arguments for all 3 of them.

But saying vettel nearly handed it to alonso on a plate, particularly, putting other reliability issues aside, after his engine in korea was the only thing preventing him winning 4 in a row at squeaky bum time at the end of the season...well that's not even worthy of a troll let alone a journalist.

Though I dont necessarily agree with you on your first paragraph, I respect it. And the respect I have for you has only increased after this post.

[maverick69]

Funny huh Mav how ferociously we were met when we said wait til he has to actually compete for every meter of track and we see how he handles diversity if he really is this always happy-smiley-says all the right things-role model-the best ambassador-decended from heaven guy.
It didn't take long for the meltdown did it? He had it too easy the past 3 years and got too complacent I think,but still he showed signs of aggression and immaturity when faced with a situation.
http://www.youtube.c...fWrvhiMZ0#t=60s
Watch how he burns the tires with no regard of people around him while he leaves in a rage.It will only get harder for him,now that he ain't the F1 "darling" anymore.

Nobody likes to lose but nobody is entitled to winning either! Now we know why Horner said signing the ''other'' top driver wouldn't be a good idea.

Coincidence?

Indeed. The Andrew Benson article goes on to say what we've pretty much been saying all along.

No smoke without fire and all of that........

[Diablobb81]

The best way to judge a man is not by the way he treats his equals, but by the way he treats his inferiors

What does this have to do with basing your opinion on what a competitor has to say? You believe that Alonso, Petrov, Di Resta, Hulk and whoever else gave their opinion, are objective?

[dau]

Karthikeyan on Vettel speaking to an Indian newspaper:

"For a world champion to say things like that is really shameful."
"It is really unprofessional. For a driver who has achieved so much to take out his frustrations on me just because he is having a difficult year is really sad.
"One does not expect a professional sportsman to be such a cry baby."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17550940

Awww nawww he di'int.

This is getting silly at light speed. Man, the media guys are going to be soooo happy they have something to write about the next two weeks. Hope someone plays the race card soon. I'm getting some popcorn.

[Sakae]

The best way to judge a man is not by the way he treats his equals, but by the way he treats his inferiors

Do you wish Vettel to call NK inferior to him in the front of camera? I thought calling him idiot and cucumber was more than sufficient, but you are really after a cake.

[Skinnyguy]

Then a forum discussion is out of order,since you seem stubbornly set in your views.Why reply than if you ain't interested in anything else that doesn't resemble your opinion,or did I miss something?

If you come with an explanation about why it was Vettels fault, Ill listen. If you simply say its Vettels fault I wont. The only argument I read to blame Seb is that he turned left and gave Narain not enough room, and there are gifs and videos showing Vettel didnt do that and showing Narain far from the edge of the track when the contact happened.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 29 March 2012 - 15:28.

[fieraku]

Media inflate the story,that's what they are supposed to do.

As it is normal for decent race/result to be ruined by a lapped driver.

I'd rather not comment antyhing about imagining,Dalai Lama and other stuff being shoved down the throat.

Who,RBR pr,fans and media or SV?

I saw nothing inflated that didn't see on track or after the race reading SV's comments,I actually think they've been too kind on him.

You didn't answer,I take it that it's not a favorable one.

Fair enough.

All three,that's how it goes.We inflate our 'heroes' to unrealistic proportions only to take them down just as fast after finding out the 'unrealistic' part of the equation.Vettel is no different,and not the first.

[gillesthegenius]

That was a long time ago - Monaco 2007 IIRC and it was supposed to be a "joke". He has matured a lot since then!

Spot on.

[gillesthegenius]

Indeed. The Andrew Benson article goes on to say what we've pretty much been saying all along

Im so glad that Andrew Benson - thats right - the great Andrew Benson agrees with you guys!!!

[maverick69]

Im so glad that Andrew Benson - thats right - the great Andrew Benson agrees with you guys!!!

Well. He may not exactly be the greatest hack ever to grace the planet - but he does have access to the various movers and shakers in F1.

Like I say - no smoke without fire

[gillesthegenius]

Well. He may not exactly be the greatest hack ever to grace the planet - but he does have access to the various movers and shakers in F1.

Yeah, thats right. Access that noobs like Moss and Ascanelli dont have.

[Alarcon]

Because he's writing an article about Vettel and not Alonso?

Vettel did succumb to pressure last year as well e.g Canada and twice more his team had to order Webber to not pass.Maybe Red Bull knew it all along that Vettel can't handle competition.

Too many coincidences,and I don't believe in those.

Because he mention Alonso... and said "Ferrari lost the title". That´s not talking about Seb, but about Alonso...

And that was not true...

Edited by Alarcon, 29 March 2012 - 15:37.

[Sinceref189]

Awww nahe di'intwww .

This is getting silly at light speed. Man, the media guys are going to be soooo happy they have something to write about the next two weeks. Hope someone plays the race card soon. I'm getting some popcorn.

Haahaa you joker dau could of put aww Helll Nahhhw aswell lol anyway back to this bull thats been blown out of proportion . Everyone fix the hell up especially the vettel haters . We all know that when Lewis or Fernando has a shocker you apparent haters will be eating humble pie .These drivers are passionate and emotional its part of a drivers mantle , some drivers where there heart on there sleeves more than others get over it as the saying go's '' what go's around comes around ''

[fieraku]

If you come with an explanation about why it was Vettels fault, Ill listen. If you simply say its Vettels fault I wont. The only argument I read to blame Seb is that he turned left and gave Narain not enough room, and there are gifs and videos showing Vettel didnt do that and showing Narain far from the edge of the track when the contact happened.

That's your problem,you instantly need to blame someone,I don't,I believe in racing incidents and that sometimes sh** happens.It takes two to tango.

So far we've seen SV's worst.

I don't know how you concluded from that I meant it was SV's fault about this particular incident.

[maverick69]

Yeah, thats right. Access that noobs like Moss and Ascanelli dont have.

We're talking current affairs here.

Live in the now

[Skinnyguy]

That's your problem,you instantly need to blame someone,I don't,I believe in racing incidents and that sometimes sh** happens.It takes two to tango.



I don't know how you concluded from that I meant it was SV's fault about this particular incident.

No, I dont need to. Racing incidents happen, but this isnt one of them. They werent racing.

Seb didnt do anything wrong at all. He went past a guy, left room for him to stay full throttle, and got turned into by the other guy.

I dont care about that meltdown underperforming yada yada. Say what you want, its your opinion. But dont lie about facts to support that opinion. Seb didnt turn left, and he left always enough room, so he cant be blamed for another guy missjudging his position. Considering this, a second place and a certain fourth ruined by another guy, cant be seriously called bad shape. If you want to keep that, go ahead, but dont lie.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 29 March 2012 - 15:52.

[gillesthegenius]

Haahaa you joker dau could of put aww Helll Nahhhw aswell lol anyway back to this bull thats been blown out of proportion . Everyone fix the hell up especially the vettel haters . We all know that when Lewis or Fernando has a shocker you apparent haters will be eating humble pie .These drivers are passionate and emotional its part of a drivers mantle , some drivers where there heart on there sleeves more than others get over it as the saying go's '' what go's around comes around ''

[skyfolker]

You didn't answer,I take it that it's not a favorable one.

You're saying that I and every other person/media/fan are just imagining this and it's normal business for Vettel to act this way?

I didn't answer this?

[gillesthegenius]

We're talking current affairs here.

Live in the now

No rules here. This is like WWE Hell In The Cell.

[maverick69]

No rules here. This is like WWE Hell In The Cell.

[Alarcon]

Well, decided. I leave my last post until the end of the season.

It´s a waste of time to come into this thread day after day and find the same trolling people who dislikes the driver but still spend their time here... just to talk about the things they want to talk. Reply after reply, we are not going to convince them. Of course there is a lot of people who respect our opinion and just came here to have a good discuss, where maybe both can learn something. That´s the magic thing of those forums! As we know that´s not a "fan club", but sometimes it seems (on the bad way).

I hope Seb will win the WDC and that´s what I believe... but whatever the final result, (hopefully) I will be here again.

If he wouldn´t achieve it... well, Lewis, Button, Kimi or of course Mark would be nice! Sorry for the Alonso fans, but he´s a double WDC...;)

Good luck!

Edited by Alarcon, 29 March 2012 - 16:08.

[as65p]

Potentially he wouldn't finish 2nd would he now? If so and such.........go a long way so it's pointless.

Reality is that his 2012 form is nothing like that of the dominating,confident,error-free,made it look easy and in control Vettel of 2011,regardless where he stands or how many points he has.
I don't know why his fans argue this blindly than keep reminding us of all his records and other driver failings.

No one is making anything up here,Vettel is having problems on and off the track and is not living up to the status and image he had not but three weeks ago.

After two races, one finished in second place, you feel qualified to pass that kind of judgement, really?

Accidentically there is one driver on the grid who has driven much more uncharacteristically in both GP so far, nothing like the ballsy, hard charging racer we used to know. And all that "regardless where he stands or how many points he has".

So what's the issue there. Shall we conclude that guy is "having problems on and off the track and is not living up to the status and image he had not but three weeks ago." ?

[fieraku]

No, I dont need to. Racing incidents happen, but this isnt one of them. They werent racing.

Seb didnt do anything wrong at all. He went past a guy, left room for him to stay full throttle, and got turned into by the other guy.

I dont care about that meltdown underperforming yada yada. Say what you want, its your opinion. But dont lie about facts to support that opinion. Seb didnt turn left, and he left always enough room, so he cant be blamed for another guy missjudging his position. Considering this, a second place and a certain fourth ruined by another guy, cant be seriously called bad shape. If you want to keep that, go ahead, but dont lie.

I never got into the details of his incident,or lied about any facts.Now you're just making stuff up.

[Mr.Wayne]

Awww nawww he di'int.

This is getting silly at light speed. Man, the media guys are going to be soooo happy they have something to write about the next two weeks. Hope someone plays the race card soon. I'm getting some popcorn.

Well, Karthikeyan is certainly enjoying the attention. He cannot get the media around him by beating his already pathologically slow teammate, but he can get the media around him after destroying the race of one of the leader cars while he was being lapped. AGAIN.

[fieraku]

After two races, one finished in second place, you feel qualified to pass that kind of judgement, really?

Accidentically there is one driver on the grid who has driven much more uncharacteristically in both GP so far, nothing like the ballsy, hard charging racer we used to know. And all that "regardless where he stands or how many points he has".

So what's the issue there. Shall we conclude that guy is "having problems on and off the track and is not living up to the status and image he had not but three weeks ago." ?

Pass judgement?

We must be watching different races and Qualis since only I don't see the same Vettel I saw all of last year from race 1 to 19.On pole and in control.
You shouldn't be talking about judgement ;)

[mursuka80]

Well he doesnt have the car to do so, like Hamilton or Alonso didnt have last year. what is your point? Seb isnt many steps above anyone else on a grid.

[P123]

As usual a mountain out of a molehill. Vettel only called NK an idiot (I'm sure many others have thought the same!). Sure, it was disrespectful and doesn't play well to the image the media like to portray of him, but it was in no way uncharacteristic of SV and talk of a 'meltdown' is laughable exaggeration. SV simply hasn't had a reason to get angry or upset over the past year. I'm guessing some are surprised he could lose his cool.

[flowerdew]

Haahaa you joker dau could of put aww Helll Nahhhw aswell lol anyway back to this bull thats been blown out of proportion . Everyone fix the hell up especially the vettel haters . We all know that when Lewis or Fernando has a shocker you apparent haters will be eating humble pie .These drivers are passionate and emotional its part of a drivers mantle , some drivers where there heart on there sleeves more than others get over it as the saying go's '' what go's around comes around ''

Not a hater; I like Vettel very much. Not fussed about the hand gestures - I feel like I'm in the minority, but I always find those things funny rather than offensive. Someone just posted a video of Alonso flipping someone off as he spun out of control out of the tunnel at Monaco; he looked for all the world like he was on the teacup ride at Disney World. It was funny. Not a fan of the idiot comment and think an apology wouldn't be amiss, but it's far from the worst thing he could have said or has been said by others. Can't speak about guerken, because I've never heard it before.

But the part up there about humble pie, I think that's what you're seeing happening to the Vettel fans right now. Alonso fans and Lewis fans know what it's like to see their drivers raked over the coals by a bunch of holier-than-thou haters acting like they have never seen anything worse in their entire sheltered lives than a driver shaking his fist after a heartbreaking championship loss, and many of those haters were Vettel fans. Not all, and not necessarily you. But many of them. And so the lesson here today, for everyone, is that you should watch the over the top condemnations and the manufactured outrage, because your driver will do it, too. You'll save yourself a lot of embarrassment and uncomfortable moral contortions when he does.

[as65p]

Pass judgement?

We must be watching different races and Qualis since only I don't see the same Vettel I saw all of last year from race 1 to 19.On pole and in control.
You shouldn't be talking about judgement ;)

Vettel wasn't on pole and in control all 19 races, so yeah, dunno what you watched last year. Maybe the same channel as this season, "Hypocrite racing network"?

[Andy865]

Amazingly, this is actually worse than the lewis v Jenson thread.

Nice going guys :thumbs:

[Afterburner]

Potentially he wouldn't finish 2nd would he now? If so and such.........go a long way so it's pointless.

He was on track for 4th in Malaysia. I don't typically argue hypotheticals but logically, taking into account his only other result this year in Australia (2nd place to the finish while under pressure from Hamilton), we can assume it's quite likely he would've made it to the finish had the incident with Narain not occurred.

Reality is that his 2012 form is nothing like that of the dominating,confident,error-free,made it look easy and in control Vettel of 2011,regardless where he stands or how many points he has.

Dominating? Maybe not. Confident and making it look easy? I'd agree with that. I don't know what else you'd call 6th to 2nd in Australia in a car that many perceived to be slower than the McLarens. Error-free? Depends on whether or not you consider misjudging the erratic behaviour of a backmarker as an error. In control? Any driver cannot exceed their car's maximum pace, so no driver is ever 'in control' of a championship on their own merit if their car isn't the quickest.

I don't know why his fans argue this blindly than keep reminding us of all his records and other driver failings.

I am not doing any of these things, so I don't understand why you feel the need to bring others into this if you're replying to me. I'm simply using the information we have based on Vettel's form thus far this year to say that it's quite logical to conclude that he is racing with as much effort as he was last year. Hopefully I won't have to illustrate why the incident with Narain wasn't Vettel's fault and the stewards were in the right for penalising Narain, or why I consider it an outlier in regards to his overall performance.

No one is making anything up here,Vettel is having problems on and off the track and is not living up to the status and image he had not but three weeks ago.

He's living up to my expectations--he's been driving his heart out so far. He just got hit by someone last weekend and it skewed his result, but as long as he keeps driving as he has so far (and stays well clear of Narain next time he comes up on him) he should be in contention for the championship. Simples.

Amazingly, this is actually worse than the lewis v Jenson thread.

Nice going guys :thumbs:

You have to wonder if it's because of the people involved, sometimes. I'm noticing a pattern, myself.

[Tauhid]

Very awkward to see Vettel in such a position. I rate him as one of the best 5 drivers in the grid. Needs to show a bit of maturity though, the gestures and slurs against Narain was totally uncalled for. I thought he was much more matured than this. Anyways, Newey will give him a race-winning car sooner than later but don't think he'll be challenging for poles anytime soon. By the time the European races come along, you can expect Red Bull to challenge McLaren thoroughly. The only problem of not qualifying in the front two rows, means they have to get past Mercs, Renaults and some other surprises which I still don't think Vettel can handle. He is easily the best front runner in clean air, meaning he starts on pole, but I still don't see him as a fully-fledged racer. This season will be a good assessment as Alonso put it last year. Let's see how he competes for a podium or try for a win, starting 7th or 8th on the grid that is.

Edited by Tauhid, 29 March 2012 - 17:27.

[fieraku]

Vettel wasn't on pole and in control all 19 races, so yeah, dunno what you watched last year. Maybe the same channel as this season, "Hypocrite racing network"?

Who should know better than you about that,unfortunately we don't get reception in these parts.

Of course he wasn't,but he also wasn't being out qualified from the go by his teammate,wasn't complaining about the car,wasn't showing aggression nor frustration,which he's finding hard to compute.And the only finger we saw was the index one.

[Skinnyguy]

I never got into the details of his incident,or lied about any facts.Now you're just making stuff up.

Of cuorse you didnt get into detail. You throwed half of the responsability on him for no specific reason. Still waiting.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 29 March 2012 - 17:39.

[as65p]

Who should know better than you about that,unfortunately we don't get reception in these parts.

Of course he wasn't,but he also wasn't being out qualified from the go by his teammate,wasn't complaining about the car,wasn't showing aggression nor frustration,which he's finding hard to compute.And the only finger we saw was the index one.

Look, there is the possibility that this might develope into a case, IF after 10 or 12 races Vettel makes similar mistakes to Malaysia all the time. At the moment, you've got but one single bad race and a bit of venting frustration. Plus of course your burning desire to make him look as lost as your own hero was last year.

But it's far too early for anything. Looks like a classic case of premature e*********n on your part.

Patience, young templar!

[Skinnyguy]

Look, there is the possibility that this might develope into a case, IF after 10 or 12 races Vettel makes similar mistakes to Malaysia all the time...

Getting hit? If he gets hit 10 times itll be just terrible luck.

[fieraku]

He's living up to my expectations--he's been driving his heart out so far. He just got hit by someone last weekend and it skewed his result, but as long as he keeps driving as he has so far (and stays well clear of Narain next time he comes up on him) he should be in contention for the championship. Simples.


You have to wonder if it's because of the people involved, sometimes. I'm noticing a pattern, myself.;)

You expected Webber to dominate him in Quali?In Mal SV had no answer in all three session against Mark and started behind his teammate for the 2nd race in a row,something that happened twice? all last year.

Not seen any of your posts to indicate such,apologies.

[hammibal]

But last time he was in similar conditions in a not far from an HRT like car - He won !!

You're comparing the 2008 Torro Rosso to the HRT?

The same Newey chassis whose butt is being kicked by Lotus / Merc who have noname designers?

Anyway what is more tickle worthy is the subconcious comparison someone made between NK and SV .. Really? Seb will finish 10 positions up on average than NK in the saem crappy car

I know , the point is that Newey chassis is no guarantee that it wont be a dog.

His rep has been hyped by the recent successes which had a lot to do with the drivers , the strategic team , the fuel efficient engine and even the pit stop guys !

Without Adrian Newey where would Vettel be?

OK - but people throw Newey name around as if he injects downforce in a chassis , by waving his hands.
No , the car was efficient because of the EBD (and only in Qualy where they could afford it ) , it was Seb , the team and other factors who eked out 11 wins in the races out of it.

Conclusion - In 2008 , borrowed Newey chassis for the Torro Rosso with no updates , no EBD and poorer pitwall and pitstop teams and combined with less skilled drivers (coz of less exp) , 2008 Monza could be considered as a backmarker winning ...

But we know the forum wisdom - whenever Vettel wins , its the car and the magic chassis - So its all good !

The 2008 Torro Rosso was not a backmarker car it regularly qualified into Q3

The Sauber looks pretty strong.
6 + 8 in Melbourne. They are after Mclaren, Red Bull and Ferrari the best team atm.

In 2008 we had Mclaren, Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Toyata and Red Bull with better cars than the Toro Rosso.

Lets have a look at qualifying using Q2 times in 2008 when the cars were light fuelled unlike Q3, starting when Vettel got the Newey designed car:-

2008
Silverstone

1. McLaren 1-19.597
2. Red Bull 1-19.710
3. BMW 1-19.802
4. Ferrari 1-19.971
5. Renault 1-19.992
6. Torro Rosso 1-20.109 +0.512s (made it to Q3)

Germany

1. McLaren 1-14.603
2. Ferrari 1-14.747
3. Renault 1-14.943
4. BMW 1-15.109
5. Toyota 1-15.122
6. Red Bull 1-15.338
7. Torro Rosso 1-15.420 +0.817s (made it to Q3)

Hungary

1. Ferrari 1-19.068
2. Toyota 1-19.246
3. McLaren 1-19.376
4. BMW 1-19.776
5. Renault 1-19.816
6. Red Bull 1-20.046
7. Torro Rosso 1-20.144 +0.984s (qualified 11th)

2012

Australia

1. McLaren 1-24.922
2. Lotus 1-25.302
3. Mercedes 1-25.336
4. Red Bull 1-25.651
5. Williams 1-25.908
6. Sauber 1-26.182 +1.26s (would have made it into Q3 with this time)

Malaysia

1. McLaren 1-36.219
2. Mercedes 1-36.391
3. Red Bull 1-36.461
4. Lotus 1-36.461
5. Ferrari 1-37.379
6. Sauber 1-37.477 +1.285s (made it into Q3)

I see little difference in the merits of the two cars and on top of that Perez beat Vettel in a presumably inferior car

2 races - in which Seb split the Mclaren's in one and was in contention for the podium in the other untill he got taken out while his team mate hasnt even threatened to get on the podium in either of the races - and you have so much to say. Ever wondered why your boy hasnt been able to repeat his (MA) amazing consistancy of 2007 ever since then? Perhaps the term 'TC' might give you the answer to it.

I dont recall Lewis winning the 2008 WDC with TC

I do find it amusing that again, the media have jumped on Sebs back and are calling iut a nightmare season and that actually, he is just like every other driver
So that explains why there's only 3 men out of 24 with 2+ titles, only 2 men with more wins, only 1 man with more poles (and at a lower strike rate) and all this in 80-odd starts at 24 years.

Sebs 'nightmare season' is
A great recovery drive after a difficult qualy to beat a faster car diven by a very talented driver to 2nd place
A reasonable recovery drive to sit 4th and with a shout of 3rd in a very difficult race before a silly tangle with a backmarker
1 mistake on a hot lap in qualy 1 good lap on the less grippy tyres and being 2-0 down to a very capable qualifier.

Its like if a top footy side won the first game then lost a tricky away game 2nd game, then would we write off their title chances? No

Remember they did the same after Nurburgring and Hungary last year, and were duly made to eat Humble Pie.

In Australia lets just forget Lewis's bad first pitstop, the SC and the fuel saving after lap 8 because McLaren got the fuel calculations wrong

Vettel qualified on the harder tyres because he was no good on the softer tyres

[as65p]

Getting hit? If he gets hit 10 times itll be just terrible luck.

He shares part of the blame, there's no way around it.

[fieraku]

Of cuorse you didnt get into detail. You throwed half of the responsability on him for no specific reason. Still waiting.

Because I told you it's fruitless to argue about ''F1 crashes'' with someone who's made up their mind.
OT, people still debating AS/AP crashes after 24 years without any results or middle ground,so you see,it's not worth it.

[sosidge]

He shares part of the blame, there's no way around it.

He is not to blame at all. Hit from behind by a backmarker on blue flags who he had given plenty of space to? I can't see any way that Vettel can be held responsible for it.

As another poster said earlier, feel free use this incident to assasinate Vettel's character based on your own fantasies, but don't misrepresent the facts when trying to do so.

[P123]

He shares part of the blame, there's no way around it.

Looked more like an NK error as he moved across, although the contact was minimal and the puncture extremely unfortunate.

[Skinnyguy]

Because I told you it's fruitless to argue about ''F1 crashes'' with someone who's made up their mind.
OT, people still debating AS/AP crashes after 24 years without any results or middle ground,so you see,it's not worth it.

Make an effort. I explained carefully why I think hes not to blame.

[hammibal]

I'm not usually one to jump to Seb's defence, but whilst I still think the incident was mostly his fault it's still worth keeping in mind that the Force India drivers are in India right now, so it's most likely a member of the Indian press who asked Hulkenberg that...

That would be suggest that Hulkenberg is merely a puppet, he could just have easily said it was a racing incident, why would he go out of his way to upset Vettel

Dont you know about the forum logic?

''If Vettel wins, the car has be to the fastest. And if Vettel dominates, it has to be because his car is one of the most dominant ever. How can one explain otherwise? ... when only Lewis Carl Hamilton is the real deal!''

Well Vettel hasnt got the fastest car now and he's not winning, go figure

Seb is a thinking man. This is what got him two consecutive titles, and a great win at Monaco, and apparently got him ahead of Hamilton at Australia. Hes entitled to do his own thinking. And if Red Bull dont like it, im sure there are teams that would be more than happy to take over Vettel tomorrow.

Even if the RB is second quickest, that's a pretty epic meltdown to have beaten a faster McLaren in each of the first two races.

Because of a SC

[puxanando]

Petrov blames Vettel for Karthikeyan incident

“Vettel shouldn’t have said anything like that or showed him the finger,” Petrov told Russia’s RIA Novosti. “I understand that it’s the emotions, the race. You can understand situations like that, but you have to control yourself.

“Karthikeyan didn’t do anything unnecessary - didn’t hit him, didn’t change direction sharply. Sebastian overtook him and started to turn. But Narain was going straight.”

web

[mursuka80]

theres always "because" with you guys.

[as65p]

He is not to blame at all. Hit from behind by a backmarker on blue flags who he had given plenty of space to? I can't see any way that Vettel can be held responsible for it.

As another poster said earlier, feel free use this incident to assasinate Vettel's character based on your own fantasies, but don't misrepresent the facts when trying to do so.

Oh please, pay attention. I'm defending him - just think that he could have been more careful. Is there no middle ground, does it always have to be b/w?

[Afterburner]

You expected Webber to dominate him in Quali?In Mal SV had no answer in all three session against Mark and started behind his teammate for the 2nd race in a row,something that happened twice? all last year.

Not seen any of your posts to indicate such,apologies.

I expected him to try his best, wherever he may end up. Show me anything that indicates he isn't doing so and perhaps I'll concede that you're correct.

He shares part of the blame, there's no way around it.

Depends on how you see things, really. Speaking in general, he definitely could've moved farther to the right to ensure he didn't make contact with Narain, and from this perspective Vettel understandably shares part of the blame. In terms of whether or not he was in the right, though, Vettel had every right to drive as he did according to the rulebook, and that's why Narain received a penalty.

Sometimes you can suffer from actions you take even if you're acting within your rights--it appears this is one of those cases.

EDIT: Your above post pretty much summed it up.

Edited by Afterburner, 29 March 2012 - 18:07.