1038 replies to this topic

[Sakae]

We do not know how many places Vettel would have lost due to his troubled Start, but what we do know, that despite that, Webber didn't had to move on him and make it even more difficult, and instead he could turn his attention on other cars, which he didn't for some reason.

[Raelene]

I disagree - I suggest you watch the start again - Webber did give him room - he couldn't be expected to stop a the first corner and say "after you" could he that would have caused more mayhem. He gave him a spot later, so why all the whinging - he played the team game, and moved over

[Sakae]

For me it dosen't really matter anymore so much how individual fans view this case, but Vettel had something to say about it, and normally he would not critique his team-mate, unless he had a case. Perception that I have is, that there is strained relationship between those two for some time which is not unique (Prost/Senna comes to my mind), but in difference to Prost/Senna, Webber's performance over time in support of WCC is suspect, and team undoubtedly should look at it. Massa, Webber, Button - all are very inconsistent, which a top team cannot tolerate.

[H2H]

The team did speak with Mark after the GP about his behaviour, which should have been rather obvious for everybody who watched the start phase. I don't think there will be big consequences as the big boss is a fan of him.

[ClubmanGT]

If I were Webber I would suggest it must have down to another technical issue - there's always at least one on his car.

[LoudHoward]

The team did speak with Mark after the GP about his behaviour

Can I ask where you heard this?

[karne]

The team did speak with Mark after the GP about his behaviour

And did Mark get to speak to them about the absolute lump of sh*t of a car he's had since Silverstone?

[Brother Fox]

95% of the rest of the grid would sell their soul to drive that 'lump if ****'

[EvanRainer]

I don't know, personally I give the benefit of the doubt to Webber regarding the start. It was another terrible start and he was being swarmed by cars and probably didn't know what the hell to do. It's easy to judge from your couch but in the car you're just trying to dodge people.

The problem was yet another one complete **** start.

[H2H]

Can I ask where you heard this?

Directly from Marko in the SportundTalk out of Hangar 7. So far it is not uploaded, watched it live.

[Thomas99]

I'm not surprised Vettel blamed Mark for the start, he blames everyone else for everything.

Remember him blaming Ricciardo at Abu Dhabi for something that was his own fault? Or Hamilton at Fuji 2007. Or Mark at Istanbul 2010?

Its just the default Vettel reaction to anything.

[EvanRainer]

What do you mean "blamed" Webber for the start. Vettel said Webber coming towards him made him brake early.

THIS IS CALLED BEING SIMPLY FACTUAL AS THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

It's amazing how people keep confusing stating THE FACTS for "complaining"

[H2H]

What do you mean "blamed" Webber for the start. Vettel said Webber coming towards him made him brake early.

THIS IS CALLED BEING SIMPLY FACTUAL AS THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

It's amazing how people keep confusing stating THE FACTS for "complaining"

Indeed.

[icecream]

in fairness, marko will have a shot at mark at any opportunity. as for the start, perhaps mark could have given more room, but then it's hard to say for sure unless you're sitting in his car and seeing what he sees. yes, perhaps vettel had to brake early, but that doesn't make it webber's fault.

i'd say the strategy for the start would be for each man to look after himself, and do his best, and then they can sort out the differences later. it's too chaotic to try anything else.

[Muzzyf1]

as an Aussie im really dissapointed in webber this year ! he is too inconsistent and im afraid he will be vettels puppy dog till he retires he had his chance and blew it.

god he was back slapping so much after the race it made me cringe ... time to retire webber

[MrFondue]

as an Aussie im really dissapointed in webber this year ! he is too inconsistent and im afraid he will be vettels puppy dog till he retires he had his chance and blew it.

god he was back slapping so much after the race it made me cringe ... time to retire webber

Or learn to operate a clutch, Mark.

[DrF]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104643

"Obviously with Sebastian's form, he's clearly on the front foot," Webber was quoted as telling reporters in Tasmania by Reuters.

"Not only from within our team but he's won three world titles on the bounce now so all the drivers have got to try and topple him.

"I don't go there thinking I've got to be playing a team role as such. I'm there for myself, to get the best results possible and to do that I need to be part of the team.

"So, no, I'm not going there thinking in a supporting role at all."

He really hates being asked this question time and time again!

I do wonder sometimes if he wouldn't be better off in a different team than Red Bull. He's obviously unhappy there, probably not getting the same treatment as Seb, yet keeps renewing his contract! I don't even think he gets paid very much.

Williams have a decent car now. Mark really should have approached them about a seat in 2013. Maybe he'll have a better 2013 but surely being in a team which is not so obviously dominated by another driver is more enjoyable than Red Bull (for Mark).

[boldhakka]

I thought Webber judged everything well, and did what he had to do. The start was probably closer than needed, but that's about it. If the team have a problem with it, they will replace him because he isn't really hiding his attitude from them. I don't think they will though, because they're quite happy with him. And he with them.

[sailor]

I thought Webber judged everything well, and did what he had to do. The start was probably closer than needed, but that's about it. If the team have a problem with it, they will replace him because he isn't really hiding his attitude from them. I don't think they will though, because they're quite happy with him. And he with them.

It was luck of draws that saved Webber.

Imagine if Vettel had DNFed and lost the title, his seat would be in serious trouble

[gm914]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104643



He really hates being asked this question time and time again!

I do wonder sometimes if he wouldn't be better off in a different team than Red Bull. He's obviously unhappy there, probably not getting the same treatment as Seb, yet keeps renewing his contract! I don't even think he gets paid very much.

Williams have a decent car now. Mark really should have approached them about a seat in 2013. Maybe he'll have a better 2013 but surely being in a team which is not so obviously dominated by another driver is more enjoyable than Red Bull (for Mark).

Webber's on about €10m per year.

[Kelateboy]

It was luck of draws that saved Webber.

Imagine if Vettel had DNFed and lost the title, his seat would be in serious trouble

I really don't understand why Red Bull renewed Webber's contract for another year. Red Bull obviously wanted a 2nd driver to complement their WC, and Webber is not exactly the submissive type that plays that role perfectly.

When will Red Bull ever learn?

[icecream]

When will Red Bull ever learn?

3*WDC + 3*WCC on the trot. when will they learn?

Webber should indeed do everything he can to win, but part of that is playing the team game as otherwise he may encounter reluctance when he needs help.

His quali has been pretty good this year, and it's my guess that the 2013 quali DRS changes are going to hurt seb more than mark. So if he can maximise more of his race results (getting off the line well would be a good start!), he may well have a more competitive 2013.

[v@sh]

3*WDC + 3*WCC on the trot. when will they learn?

Webber should indeed do everything he can to win, but part of that is playing the team game as otherwise he may encounter reluctance when he needs help.

His quali has been pretty good this year, and it's my guess that the 2013 quali DRS changes are going to hurt seb more than mark. So if he can maximise more of his race results (getting off the line well would be a good start!), he may well have a more competitive 2013.

He has already encountered reluctance when he needs help in the past. He was merely returning the favour in Brazil. I don't see why many fans are surprised, he said he wasn't going to help before the race and while he did squeeze Vettel at both restarts what did fans expect? Massa like help?

His qualifying has been much better this year but his Sundays have been rubbish in the second half the season. IMO I'd rather him switch to Renault and team up with Kimi.

He will never maximise his race results because he isn't consistent enough due to a) a crap start b) a Tilke circuit c) some mechanical fault that screws him over d) piss poor strategy e) him just being slow

Edited by v@sh, 30 November 2012 - 22:30.

[Ian G]

I really don't understand why Red Bull renewed Webber's contract for another year.

Mark is the only one of the 5 drivers that doesn't deal with Marko,he deals directly with Mateschitz and DM likes him,he said last year he can't imagine Mark driving for anyone else. Mark was in close contract talks with Ferrari around the time of his BGP win,he confirmed this in his interview with a Finnish Journo.Hamilton's new manager approached Horner about a seat so they knew there was a possible vacancy at Mac. for 2013,throw in reports that Renault/Lotus wanted him to partner Kimi & also Williams would welcome him back, RB had to act as obviously they felt the STR guys weren't ready.Very few drivers can pilot a F-1 car to its potential without hitting something or someone and Mark is one of the best of the current crop,if the stars align watch out in 2013,he will really give the WDC a shake given just a bit of luck instead of Murphy's law.

[icecream]

He has already encountered reluctance when he needs help in the past. He was merely returning the favour in Brazil. I don't see why many fans are surprised, he said he wasn't going to help before the race and while he did squeeze Vettel at both restarts what did fans expect? Massa like help?

Massa like help? Well, perhaps almost. I actually enjoyed watching Massa hounding people to help Alonso. Why wouldn't you help the team you work for achieve a WDC, especially given you aren't in contention. That said, I don't really have any problem with Mark's brazil race. He helped where he could, but at the start it don't think it's as straightforward as just letting anyone through.

[Skinnyguy]

He helped where he could, but at the start it don't think it's as straightforward as just letting anyone through.

It was really easy. It´s not even about him letting anyone throught, it´s about being smart.

When he got going there was a sister car inside and a red car outside him.

-If you move right towards the red car, the sister car can move right too, and gets a better angle into the corner, so do you. Then the red car has to go too wide with two cars between him and the apex, and either filters behind you, or you put him in the grass on the outside. You exit the corner first, the sister car second, and the red car third, or maybe even off.

-If you move towards the sister car, it gets a **** angle into the corner, just like you, and the red car drives around both of you with a smile on the face.

[LoudHoward]

Webber's on about €10m per year.

From what James Allen has said in the past, RBR pay a lower base rate, but pay a lot more for bonuses (points and podiums and stuff).

[Sardukar]

Webber is going to have the final bit of surgery on his leg to remove the metal plate. Hope it all goes well.

[Kelateboy]

Mark is the only one of the 5 drivers that doesn't deal with Marko,he deals directly with Mateschitz and DM likes him,he said last year he can't imagine Mark driving for anyone else. Mark was in close contract talks with Ferrari around the time of his BGP win,he confirmed this in his interview with a Finnish Journo.Hamilton's new manager approached Horner about a seat so they knew there was a possible vacancy at Mac. for 2013,throw in reports that Renault/Lotus wanted him to partner Kimi & also Williams would welcome him back, RB had to act as obviously they felt the STR guys weren't ready.Very few drivers can pilot a F-1 car to its potential without hitting something or someone and Mark is one of the best of the current crop,if the stars align watch out in 2013,he will really give the WDC a shake given just a bit of luck instead of Murphy's law.

They could get Kobayashi or Hulkenberg at a much cheaper price, and I bet either of these drivers won't pull the stunt of squeezing their teammate into T1 in the title deciding race.

Before you accuse me of being Webber's hater, I was hoping for Webber to win the Brazilian GP (you can search my post after Q). But his move at the start was uncalled for - he was not a team player and certainly not a 2nd driver material. Any competent 2nd driver would net Red Bull the WCC in the last 2 years; 2010 might be debatable as Webber was on better forms that Sebastian until he hurt his shoulder in the mountain biking incident prior to the Japanese GP.

[bourbon]

The only criticism I might have would be the start because considering he was out of contention, I think the team game mandated that he not hinder Vettel with his choices which would mean avoiding that not-very-tight squeeze that would make Vettel have to make a tough choice. As we see what happens in the midgrid (not just this race), top cars feeding into the midgrid can be disastrous - and that was the case here, although it came out alright. Seb played his role in electing to act in a super safe manner - but Mark knew he would, so...

On the other hand, Later, Mark went wide to avoid what was a pressure cooker situation with Vettel and Kobayashi 3 abreast and he escorted Vettel past the HRT (was that Narian?) So Mark did play the team game - perhaps a little roughly, but yeah, I don't think one can say he didn't play the team game at all. That is about as much as you can expect.

I just want them to race one another at GPs when both are in contention. That is the most important thing.

[goldenboy]

I think he almost crapped his pants when they were 3 wide with koba at the restart and saw the possibility of him accidentally tagging vettel

[choyothe]

It was really easy. It´s not even about him letting anyone throught, it´s about being smart.

When he got going there was a sister car inside and a red car outside him.

-If you move right towards the red car, the sister car can move right too, and gets a better angle into the corner, so do you. Then the red car has to go too wide with two cars between him and the apex, and either filters behind you, or you put him in the grass on the outside. You exit the corner first, the sister car second, and the red car third, or maybe even off.

-If you move towards the sister car, it gets a **** angle into the corner, just like you, and the red car drives around both of you with a smile on the face.

It's not exactly rocket science.

[Kelateboy]

Just watched ESPN Starsports interview of Webber, and he explained the reason for re-signing with Red Bull.

"Not many drivers walk away from Adrian Newey's cars."

"He was a big factor in me staying."

[Sardukar]

Just watched ESPN Starsports interview of Webber, and he explained the reason for re-signing with Red Bull.

"Not many drivers walk away from Adrian Newey's cars."

"He was a big factor in me staying."

hardly suprising, newey cars have always been the best on the grid, webber would be an idiot to move to another team.

[eronrules]

Webber has succesful leg surgery back home - yallaf1

Just ahead of the 2009 season, the now 36-year-old badly broke his leg in a downhill mountain cycling crash during his outdoor adventure challenge in Tasmania.

Now, four years later, Webber has had another operation on the leg, mere days after contesting his Tasmanian challenge yet again.

“Hospital trip planned a while back,” he announced on Twitter. “I needed further surgery from previous injury. All good and on the mend.”

Posting a photo of his hospital breakfast, the Red Bull driver added: “Hospital brekkie in bed. Leg finally all done.”

[goldenboy]

Remember this livery? never have I hated yet loved a car so much...

http://www.youtube.c...ature=endscreen

Edited by goldenboy, 14 December 2012 - 17:52.

[encircled]

Car development didn't favour Vettel - Webber

Webber admitted in 2011 that he struggled to adapt his driving style to the exhaust-blown diffuser compared to Vettel, but when asked by ESPN if the Singapore update took this year's RB8 away from him in relation to his team-mate Webber replied: "Not really, no.

"Singapore's been a track - there and Hockenheim - that were the two venues that were probably my weakest performances of the year, although we had a howler with strategy in Singapore to rub salt in the wounds. So not really; I was strong in Suzuka, I was very strong there and Seb and I were on the front row. I was strong in Korea, I was strong in India.

"So I was not uncompetitive after Singapore, it was just that we had an alternator, we had Grosjean, we had things which are like dropping your toast and it lands butter-side down or whatever. That's just the way things were going at some stages."

[Ragingjamaican]

Remember this livery? never have I hated yet loved a car so much...

http://www.youtube.c...ature=endscreen

Used to love that livery!

Looking back at it now, the HSBC logos ruined it a little, if it was more metallic green-ish, it would have been amazing. I remember one season they even had gold rims

[goldenboy]

The first race I ever saw, just stumbling through the channels one sunday afternoon. Hooked! Loved how paul stoddard had to borrow champagne from mclaren





I've never been able to find video of salo spinning off while about to take webber, don't think I've yelled at a screen so loud before!

some more minardi love followed by their super early DRS innovation...

Edited by goldenboy, 17 December 2012 - 07:17.