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2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard Part II


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#4001 skidmarks

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:33

is this thread still running ?? cmon guys... i think its now established that JB is a great driver but he is not as good as Lewis Hamilton... no matter what happens until the end of the championship.. JB can be on his day the best out there... but that is not consistent enough...compared with LH... who is IMHO the best driver of his generation !


When I joined, I saw people thowing around the total scores of the drivers from the last three years, with a 1 point advantage to Button. Apparently, "this is the only score that matters". I'm not sure we can expect any sort of peace on the LH V JB front with that sort of "logic" being bandied around from both sides :)

Edited by skidmarks, 23 September 2012 - 06:52.


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#4002 ZooL

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:07

He originally said that we never would have known what Hamilton could do with the same configuration, yet the only time they ran the same config was in practice, when Hamilton was consistently slower with it, hence choosing the other wing. Practice times aren't gospel, but trends emerge from them. Drivers do qualifying simulations in FP3, that is a fact. We know that Hamilton and Button both did theirs in the same config, and that Hamilton was well off Button's pace, on several runs, not just the headline times. He was visibly having a lot of oversteer, complained about the balance and then switched to the other wing. It was only because of his lack of pace in practice that drove him in this wrong direction for qualifying, and yet apparently i'm 'naive and silly' for considering its importance.

In any case, i'm only trying to correct the nonsense that the different wing entirely explains Hamilton's deficit to Button that day. He lost out more time on the straights than he gained in the corners, but the amount he gained in the mid sector was still well below what was expected. But even if he had gained the expected amount mid sector, it still would have left him well down on Button's times. All the evidence points to him lacking the fundamental pace that weekend. Anyone can say 'we will never know what Hamilton would have done with the same config', but there's zero evidence to suggest he had Button matching pace, whatever the configuration. Presumably if Hamilton did have some pace up his sleeve that we weren't seeing in FP3, then he wouldn't have felt the need to go down a different route, and McLaren wouldn't have taken the unusual step of splitting their strategies when they knew one was better than the other.

So it's fanciful in the extreme to take the default stance that had they run the same config in qualifying that LH would have automatically matched JB, never mind beaten him. Button can proudly claim that weekend as a genuine out and out victory over his team mate in terms of performance, he doesn't get many of those. Even then, had FP1 and FP2 been dry it most likely would have been a lot closer - Hamilton would have had more time to properly dial himself into the track and I wouldn't be surprised if he shaded Button in qualifying, just as he does 90% of the time even when they're both happy with the handling of their car. Alas, Friday was a washout and for whatever reason Hamilton wasn't comfortable with the wing when Button was, and the rest is history.

Comparing this however to the headline times from free practice this weekend is a strawman. Vettel had a clean sweep of FP1, 2 & 3, but it was close - nip and tuck with Hamilton throughout, and there was evidence to suggest LH hadn't unleashed his full potential during the course of those sessions (running wide on one particular hot lap). The trend we saw from practice wasn't inconsistent with qualifying today, just that Vettel never put in a representative time in Q3 (his Q2 time was faster) Couple this with his post-quali reaction and Red Bull's obvious disappointment and it's clear that Vettel didn't deliver on his potential.

Paddy Lowe said they (JB) lucked into the setup at Spa, they were just taking gambles because of the washout sessions.

#4003 D.M.N.

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:20

Thread closed for technical reasons, please continue discussion here. :)