22 replies to this topic

[Bruce]

CAMS is investigating BAR in regards to JV's accident. Curiously, Williams is not being investigated.

Lauda has asked for an inquiry into the accident saying "An investigation must determine what Villeneuve did wrong".

Seems like everybody has already made up their minds doesn't it?

What possible purpose could said enquiries have except to lay blame for the death of the marshall? (when was the last time an enquiry was launched over a racing accident?)

It sounds disturbingly as though certain parties in F1 hope to distance themselves from the incident (and the preceding one at Monza) by isolating one scapegoat - and it looks like JV is "it"....

Lets hope saner heads prevail.

If not, expect a sanction for JV that will make MS's punishment in 1994 look like a cakewalk....

It would be nice to see the matter looked into properly before blame was given - but even if it was totally, completely JVs fault, he should not be blamed for the death of the marshal - it's just not done or fair to do so. It was not done at Monza. It was not done in Toronto when Krossnoff and the marshalls were killed. It was not done in Michigan at the 500 when spectators were killed. More so, even if JV is guilty of terminal over-optimism, the ensuing death of the marshal cannot be laid at his feet - it was an accident,and drvers are meant to take the sort of chances JV has and does.

The tone of Lauda's comment suggests that Lauda, anyway, has already found JV guilty and is just wondering what way to see him crucified...

[Ricardo F1]

There's no one to blame and I don't think they can do anything about it anyway - certainly the FIA won't do anything. Italy was always different due to the prosecution laws that had the Senna trial pointlessly going on for years.

[Gary Grant]

Just like Niki blamed an innocent Patrese in 1978 for Peterson's death. I wish he'd go back to Austria and stay there (perhaps after finally thanking the people who saved his life in 1976).I thought kangaroo courts of this nature were things of the past, but perhaps not...
Disturbing news all round.

[George Bailey]

It probably isn't helping JV's cause that he has been so willing to point the finger at other drivers for what he believed was dangerous driving. If JV has a right to say that this or that move wasn't just aggressive racing, but was in fact improper and dangerous behavior, then he leaves himself open to the same sort of scrutiny.

[Thunder]

From what i saw from the onboard and other mpegs, JV was not totally faulty, ralf braked too early. I know that this is the responsability of the back car but he really had nothing to do for it. Nobody else ,including Senna, could do something for it. Something was clearly faulty with Ralf's car. JV should not be punished for this.

[pRy]

If they are going to investigate this fully maybe they should check into why this was possible :

http://www.pry.u-net...unprotected.jpg

F1 is very lucky not to have lost several lives yesterday.

[The Swerve]

Where can I see the onboard shot from either JV's or Ralf's car?

[Thunder]

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=16948

[Bruce]

George - the difference is that JV was a driver being critical of another driver - happens all the time. Lauda is a team employee and senior statewsman asking for inquiries into JV's involvement with an accident that ended in a tragic death.

It's easy to shoulder the blame for a shunt, and JV has in the past (Canada last year comes to mind). No driver should be asked to shoulder the blame for an accidental death....

[MrAerodynamicist]

Jaxs only made comments shortly after the accident. There have not been any fresh quotes:

http://www.atlasf1.c...p/id/3780/.html
"Drivers Villeneuve and Olivier Panis refrained from commenting on the incident and Pollock said the team will make no comment until the investigation results are complete. "

[George Bailey]

Bruce,

I agree with you than Lauda is wrong here. I'm just pointing out that by commenting on the actions of other drivers in incidents that he himself was not in, JV leaves the door open for a closer look at his own style. A style that does not put an emphasis on extreme caution

[Bruce]

Agreed.

[Smooth]

They had to look at the reasons for a death last year in Monza as well (granted: Italy has some f***ed up laws in regards to injuries/deaths at sporting and public events). I don't see anything wrong with an investigation, it is a must. Why Lauda has to come out and basically blame JV for a death is really morbid, and totally out of line. The marshall was not protected, whether he was where he was supposed to be or not, and that is what the investigation will want answers for. Of course BAR is going to cooperate, and wisely shut their driver up.
IMHO every track should expect a huge wreck at every corner on every lap of every race. Preparing for anything less is not good enough, and the results can be tragic, as we have sadly seen twice in less than a year.

[Khan]

Whilst I agree with all said above - about not placing blame on Jacques, I think some of you are missing the point of the investigation. It is obvious that the driver was not at fault for the marshall's death - however, the matter of the team's fault should be investigated. Hypothetically speaking, if the wheels were attached to the car by faulty tethers, then we could certainly point the finger at someone, and not without cause. So it's not all about Jacques.


Khan.

[Williams]

If this investigation pulls the data records from both cars' black boxes, then perhaps we can see a little light thrown on the situation. It is so hard to tell just what happened by looking at videos.

However, I hope this doesn't turn into some sort blame-the-driver-for-the-trackside-death witch-hunt. The marshal died because of faulty defective trackside procedures and possibly faulty infrastructure, not because of the actions of the drivers. Somebody could have been killed there whether the accident started due to driver error, or if it started because a part broke on a car. That has to be looked at very carefully.

Unfortunately, it won't be looked at, because the driver investigation will become the smokescreen.

[AT-LAW]

I agree with Smooth: an investigation is a must, and it is done routinely whenever someone dies, not only in a car crah, but also in another kind of accident. In fact, it is compulsory.
On the other hand, maybe JV shall be considered responsible of the accident, but that will bring no more penalties than the moral one.

[pRy]

I performed a little investigation of my own this evening to try and understand what happened, the results are here :

http://www.pry.u-net...villecrash.html

[hedges]

Someone died probably because they are human and wanted to be as close to the action as possible. Generally, no one believes they will die, and we sometimes put ourselves or others in harms way because of this.

Although I have an opinion on who is more responsible for the coming together, I do not believe either driver to be in any way responsible for the death.

Someone paid their money and took their chances. As long as people are involved in anything, there will be lapses in judgement.

My prayers to the family.

[djned]

my question is why cams are investigating this at all, what punishment can they inflict on a competitor in an internationally governed event ?

nice investigation, pRy, but downunder we've already seen conclusive proof, as us aussies have said in another thread:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=16911

Mat said
I saw footage last night on one of the news channels here in Melbourne, showing the tyre go through the gap in the fence, used for the photographers and hit the marshall, it it's him on his left side, around the waist to lower ribs area, and you see him start get knocked to the ground, before they cut the footage.

djned rejoined with:
yes, that's right. if you'll imagine that the standard camera angle was extended a couple of inches to the left, that's what channel 9 down here was showing (i wonder how they could extend it so ?).

they used one of those nifty 'magnifying glass' effects to blow up the image of the tyre striking the marshal.

also, putsa was talking about the violence of the incident, channel 9 news also showed a home video of the accident, filmed from a spot on the track but on the other side of the gravel trap. the video was filmed really well, a panning shot tracking villeneuve flying through the air. the accident was shown real time and the speed that villeneuve carried up to the point he the kitty litter arrested his slide was scary to watch.

rip.

[Gudrun]

So have I..

[MattFoster]

Witch Hunt!

Lauda should learn to shut his mouth, he only looks like a fool when he opens it.

[theMot]

I rember JV saying how Raikonnen isnt ready for F1 and will probably cause accidents.....


who caused the accident on Sunday....

[MattFoster]

jv wasn't the only one to say that. Kimi proved them wrong