58 replies to this topic

[Skellen]

We've all heard how hard to drive were the beasts from the 50's and 60's. But which era had cars which were the easiest to drive? Was it maybe in the early 90's with the active suspension or the early 2000s with advaced traction control? Discuss!

[Smile17]

Generally, cars became harder to drive when the years gone by. More brains needed than in the past. It's just how you look at it. Nowadays it's much more than just finding the gaspedal.

[karlth]

We've all heard how hard to drive were the beasts from the 50's and 60's. But which era had cars which were the easiest to drive? Was it maybe in the early 90's with the active suspension or the early 2000s with advaced traction control? Discuss!

Every era had its challenges. Perhaps the cars of the early 60s were not as difficult as others due to the relative lack of power ?

[Bloggsworth]

Depends what you mean by easiest. Do you mean most forgiving? No car is easy to drive at race-winning pace, but cars like the 250F and the late 50s early 60s Coopers were drivable by good drivers just below race-winning pace, while Ferrari Dinos and Lotus 18s needed very good drivers to get them up to anything resembling front of the field pace.

[PayasYouRace]

That's a tough one isn't it?

Depends what you mean by easy. Back in the 50s and 60s the drivers weren't subjected to the same forces that they are now. They had a lot to do and had to concentrate but you could see that they didn't need the fitness levels needed nowadays. I'd imagine that the best cars from those days were also beautifully balanced machines which would respond very well to the drivers inputs.

Even in the early 90s days of active suspension and auto gearboxes and traction control, the cars were fairly crude compared to today. They needed looking after quite a lot too.

[BigCHrome]

2011 and 2012. With the Pirelli tires, the drivers aren't pushing at all, and everyone can drive to the required laptime. That's why spins and off track excursions are so rare.

[2ms]

I imagine the current cars are the easiest to drive. They have low horsepower compared to cars of the past, but all the benefits to handling, stability, general predictability provided by the more advanced state of modern engineering.

[SirRacer]

Well I don't know if there is a "harder to drive car"

Let's say that if there is a "standard difficulty" - 100%

Car 1 will be able to go 1.30.000 at that difficulty
Car 2 will be able to go 1.25.000 at that difficulty
Car 3 will be able to go 1.22.000 at that difficulty

You could say Car 1 is more difficult to drive than Car 3, but you could also say Car 3 is faster than Car 1

Edited by SirRacer, 08 July 2012 - 10:30.

[Crafty]

I would say early 90s cars. Active Suspension, traction control, fully automated gearboxes when all that stuff was banned everyone struggled to adapt.

[midgrid]

The relatively underpowered 1.5-litre cars of the early 1960s were generally reckoned to be easier and more straightforward to drive than cars produced to the formulae before and afterwards.

[Disgrace]

I would say early 90s cars. Active Suspension, traction control, fully automated gearboxes when all that stuff was banned everyone struggled to adapt.

That's what I would also point to. It helped make 1994 the worst F1 season in history as it was littered with considerable accidents with the likes of Lamy/Alesi/Montermini/Wendinger/Lehto all missing races as a result.

[BigCHrome]

That's what I would also point to. It helped make 1994 the worst F1 season in history as it was littered with considerable accidents with the likes of Lamy/Alesi/Montermini/Wendinger/Lehto all missing races as a result.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the 1993 cars were easy, more that the 1994 were very challenging.

[Currahee]

I remember being at Spa in 98 and Martin Brundle drove Fangios Merc around the circuit.

He said it was really awkward to drive. He said the steering wheel was too big and heavy and he also said his feet were about 2 feet apart.

I don't know how I remember this as I was quite drunk at the time.

[olliek88]

The cars from 61-65 were relatively speaking easy to drive, 1.5L engines and watching Sky the other day they had the GP from Brands in '64 (I think) and i think it was Jimmy Clark said the cars are really easy to drive, the second you get to the apex you could nail the throttle and had nothing to worry about.

[adam1312]

with traction control it takes skill away, driving fast without any help

[HoldenRT]

I imagine the current cars are the easiest to drive. They have low horsepower compared to cars of the past, but all the benefits to handling, stability, general predictability provided by the more advanced state of modern engineering.

This.. the only thing though is that they have to multi task more than ever.. in terms of KERS and DRS.. plus close qualifying.. competitive etc.. these aspects are maybe harder than they ever have before.

But driving an average lap in the race is VERY easy compared to how it used to be. The cars have the best handling and aero and are low on revs and power. Only other thing about modern cars is the 'cliff' that the tyres have. But on an average lap.. they are 'driving to a laptime' as someone else said.

[BigCHrome]

This.. the only thing though is that they have to multi task more than ever.. in terms of KERS and DRS.. plus close qualifying.. competitive etc.. these aspects are maybe harder than they ever have before.

But driving an average lap in the race is VERY easy compared to how it used to be. The cars have the best handling and aero and are low on revs and power. Only other thing about modern cars is the 'cliff' that the tyres have. But on an average lap.. they are 'driving to a laptime' as someone else said.

They are easy in terms of having good grip, but it's a definite challenge to control the tires. Any wheelspin you get costs you seconds at the end of the stint.

[Zippel]

With the big run offs, smoother roads, and more aero to engine power ratio I'd say the modern cars easily.

[Atreiu]

I would say early 90s cars. Active Suspension, traction control, fully automated gearboxes when all that stuff was banned everyone struggled to adapt.

But the winners and strongest pilots were still the same from the turbo era through that early 90s phase until they retired. Only Schumacher joined and was quick to estabilish himself.

If they had been that easy to drive, newcomers would certainly have been much more competitive from the go.

Not to metion the Andretti experiment.

I think that barely having to push nowadays takes a lot of the tension off the drivers, but with KER and dozens of functions and controles to look after and use, it cant be easy, just less strenous.

[Skinnyguy]

None car is easy to drive near the limit, but less hard... It has to be early 2000's cars. You barely saw any corrections on the wheel -talking about front runners, bad cars on that era looked a total handful- and there was literally no need for throttle modulation.

Still there were challenges. Grooved dry weather tyres had ZERO tolerancy to the first drops, and while good cars nearly never slid, when they did you either lost a chunk of time or go off. Back then when someone had to make a correction he always would lost lots of time to cars around, now you see them doing it non stop.

[wingwalker]

Possibly 2006-7? Peak of the tire war so the tires were very grippy, lots of drivers were saying how much easier is to drive than year before because of newly introduced V8 so the balance of power/grip went even more into 'grip' directions, and teams were free to use traction control as anti locks on the rear axis.

[George Costanza]

Of the modern day drivers, only Michael Schumacher drove the whole grand scale of technological developments. 1991-1992 with the 6 speed manual gearbox, then '93 onward all technological progress (TC etc) then 2000s and so forth.

I wonder how every driver today would do in a Benetton B192...

Edited by George Costanza, 14 October 2012 - 23:47.

[keiichi]

I can't really pick any particular era that I consider to have had the easiest cars. On the other hand, if I were to pick the hardest cars to drive I think I would have to go with turbo cars from the 80's. Ridiculous amounts of power, huge lag, manual gearchange, etc etc etc. For me these were the cars where drivers had to work really hard to get the most out of them.

[BigCHrome]

None car is easy to drive near the limit, but less hard... It has to be early 2000's cars. You barely saw any corrections on the wheel -talking about front runners, bad cars on that era looked a total handful- and there was literally no need for throttle modulation.

Still there were challenges. Grooved dry weather tyres had ZERO tolerancy to the first drops, and while good cars nearly never slid, when they did you either lost a chunk of time or go off. Back then when someone had to make a correction he always would lost lots of time to cars around, now you see them doing it non stop.

Yeah, during the big arms race at about 2001-2004 the grip levels were ridiculous.

[Dolph]

None car is easy to drive near the limit, but less hard... It has to be early 2000's cars. You barely saw any corrections on the wheel -talking about front runners, bad cars on that era looked a total handful- and there was literally no need for throttle modulation.

Still there were challenges. Grooved dry weather tyres had ZERO tolerancy to the first drops, and while good cars nearly never slid, when they did you either lost a chunk of time or go off. Back then when someone had to make a correction he always would lost lots of time to cars around, now you see them doing it non stop.

No corrections, huh? Then what the hell is this:

[SUPRAF1]

Are you talking about just driving or driving well? If it's driving well (i.e. at professional F1 driver pace) then modern cars are very difficult to drive.

In terms of mental skill I think modern cars are the hardest to drive simply because you have to focus on so many things besides purely driving. In the turbos, your body would be knackered but mentally you'd be in less trouble.

[Ogami musashi]

I don't think anybody here can answer that question and i'm not sure anyone has sufficient experience driving all of them to judge but however there's one problem i think in the OP question: the definition of "easy". Driving style has changed a lot with the introduction of downforce slick tyres fast gearboxes and electronics.

I'll take the two extremes to illustrate my point. If you take a pre 68 car, for many technical reasons stability was weak compared to today and more so because low grip meant limit of traction was easily reached. The main task of the driver was to control the car and both by necessity and because they could do it for the far lower cornering speeds+track designs they could slide (i mean lose temporarily traction on 3 wheels) and control it.

If you take an actual F1 car (reading that an F1 car is "low HP" is amusing...750 hp for ICE + 80 HP kers is not something i would call "low hp" especially if you compare to pre 92 cars, except the 85-86 era the power/weight ratios were equal or lower than now) the grip levels are much higher and stability (because of wings and progresses in suspension dynamics) is much greater which is actually a necessity to higher cornering speeds. In addition gearboxes are much faster. This has led to completely different driving styles were you can't afford to lose stability because with the speeds involved you're out of the track (hence why you see much less corrections) so you need to approach the traction limit by the lower margin, never overdriving it while at the same time the technological progresses mean you need to be ultra agressive.
Have you seen the recent cornering technics? (i mean really from the day of seamless gearboxes) you approach the corner around 300km/h you have to brake 75 meters before, trail braking is a must, and downshift all the way to the reacceleration point! then you re-accelerate much faster than in the 67 cars. I think to get a good idea of what it takes one should try a good simulator (like netkar pro or iracing) and see what it takes to post real competitive lap times. As some F1 drivers said the main challenge for them is to exploit the car potential to the max

To me then the two era were very different in term of driving style skills but on the overall i think nowadays are much harder because the require finer inputs at higher speeds+ the physical demands though the bravery of former drivers is so impressive.

Note that i speak about qualifying paces.

Edited by Ogami musashi, 15 October 2012 - 05:25.

[Jimisgod]

The turbo cars were bloody difficult to drive by all accounts. Plus a stick shift. Mentally challenging as you had to regulate absolutely every part of the corner not to muck it up.

[Massa]

2011 and 2012. With the Pirelli tires, the drivers aren't pushing at all, and everyone can drive to the required laptime. That's why spins and off track excursions are so rare.

This.

[Jejking]

with traction control it takes skill away, driving fast without any help

You couldn't be more wrong. 800BHP sends you into a spin in a flash. Some guy testing a Jag F1 2004 edition proved that.

[OoxLox]

I've no idea what cars were the easiest or hardest to drive, but I remember at the start of Melbourne 2008 seeing Massa become the first victim of the loss of traction control when he lost it putting the power down out of turn one and went into the barriers. Most of the changes made since 1994 were done to slow the cars down or make them safer in their own right, but that was one change that definitely made the cars harder to drive until everyone got used to it again.

[Jejking]

You couldn't be more wrong. 800BHP sends you into a spin in a flash. Some guy testing a Jag F1 2004 edition proved that.

It wasn't just some guy. Chris Harris tested one.

Link:

Does that look easy to you, to go fast AND maintain control?

[Nonesuch]

No corrections, huh? Then what the hell is this:

To be fair, that was in Imola. The next race, in Spain, was the first at which driving aids such as traction control etc. were once again allowed. The cars were of course never absolutely stable, but I don't think it's inaccurate that there was less need for such quick corrections in the years 2001-2007.

[Bloggsworth]

No F1 car has ever been easy to drive.

[The Kanisteri]

No F1 car has ever been easy to drive.

I disagree with you.

They are generally easy to drive, but battling against physics of G-forces, brake heat, grip of tyres, power og engine, smooth aerodynamics, selfcontrol of fear, guts.

It's like saying running is easy, it is. But getting times like Usain bolt, takes some effort, practise, practise and so on.

[blackmme]

I think the 1.5 litre cars from the early to mid 60's weren't considered to be particuarly difficult to drive compared with those that came before and after.

Regards Mike

[encircled]

I disagree with you.

They are generally easy to drive, but battling against physics of G-forces, brake heat, grip of tyres, power og engine, smooth aerodynamics, selfcontrol of fear, guts.

It's like saying running is easy, it is. But getting times like Usain bolt, takes some effort, practise, practise and so on.

Renault F1 demo straight line crash

Edited by encircled, 15 October 2012 - 11:31.

[The Kanisteri]

Renault F1 demo straight line crash

He failed to adapt power of engine, grip of tyres. Though driver is experienced on other quick vehicles, he is rather newbie with F1 cars.

[tormave]

Is the question about which cars were easy to drive slowly enough for an everyday Joe, or about which were easy to drive at competitive pace? Through the development of downforce and driver aids the challenge of driving on the limit has just transformed rather than disappeared. I think it's Mario Andretti who said that if everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough. This has been true through the decades of F1 evolution.

[goingthedistance]

I recall reading recently that today's cars are so much easier to steer that strength, particularly in the upper arm area is no longer important at all. So we have this trend towards emaciated drivers due to KERS and weight restrictions instead.

[BRG]

Impossible to answer. This is comparing apples with oranges & with bananas & with grapes.

A 100cc kart is ultra simple to drive - just a throttle and a brake pedal and a steering wheel. But if you aren't fit enough, ten laps will see you knackered beyond belief (I speak from experience!).
A modern F1 has so many controls and adjustable parameters that drivers need to have fifteen fingers on each hand.
A 1960s 1.5 litre F1 was very simple by comparison, but after the several thousand manual gear shifts needed to complete Monaco, your hand would be like hamburger with blisters.

And so on. Each generation has different challenges. Just to trundle around, probably a 1950s car would be easiest, as long as you weren't trying to really press on. But to complete a 1950s era GP around the Nordschlieffe in one would be daunting to say the least.

[Skinnyguy]

No corrections, huh? Then what the hell is this:

That's a car totally planted in braking, turn in, and apex. But with 870 hp and no tc, so it's a challenge exiting slow corners. Sadly that's not at all representative of early 2000's, but the exception, since tc was with us 90 x cent of that era. For me 2001-2007 cars are the answer for op question.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 15 October 2012 - 15:57.

[wingwalker]

I recall reading recently that today's cars are so much easier to steer that strength, particularly in the upper arm area is no longer important at all.

Oh, that's a given with power steering. BTW, when it was first introduced and what was the last F1 car without it?


But if people say early 00's were the easiest, than what about the 2006/7? Less power, more downforce, same driver aids.

[panzani]

Current ones, then 2013 ones, then 2014 ones, then 2015 ones ... and so on.

[OfficeLinebacker]

No corrections, huh? Then what the hell is this:

Boy he sure is greedy with the throttle, isn't he?

[flavio81]

I would say early 90s cars. Active Suspension, traction control, fully automated gearboxes when all that stuff was banned everyone struggled to adapt.

Alain Prost -a driver that is generally of frank opinions- said in 1993 that the (ultra-advanced) Willams car wasn't so easy to drive as it appeared. Of course, everybody made fun of his comments at the time. But years before Riccardo Patrese -a very frank driver- had declared that when trying the active suspension Williams car in 1991 (versus the passive one), the active was much more difficult to drive because of a lack of feedback on the grip when cornering.

[flavio81]

Instead of the "easiest", i would say the hardest car to drive was the Renault RS01 driven by JP Jabouille (1977, 1978, 1979):

- First turbo car. Was down on power out of the turbo rev band; when the turbo kicked in, a **massive** amount of power was suddenly transferred to the rear wheels. Try driving that in the wet.

- Turbo lag was massive and in the order of seconds. So the driver (JPJ) had to preemptly step on the gas in advance to when he actually needed the power.

- Prototype engine overheated/melted/exploded at almost every race. The car was nicknamed "the yellow teapot" because of this.

After years of DNFs, JPJ was able to actually score poles and win with such cars. Hats of to Jabouille.

Edited by flavio81, 15 October 2012 - 17:39.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I can't speak of the real life racing, but I know that in iRacing I find wingless cars to be far easier to drive competitively, for three reasons. The lower cornering speeds don't tax my reflexes as much, it's easier to know the limit when you don't have a downforce component that is variable with speed, and going over the limit kills your lap time rather than your car. In a heavily downforced car, you can be more than 10 mph off the limit in the corner, and still feel like that's the best you can do.

[ZooL]

2011 and 2012. With the Pirelli tires, the drivers aren't pushing at all, and everyone can drive to the required laptime. That's why spins and off track excursions are so rare.

This.

I remember when Hamilton said he's not racing the car.

Webber just said this weekend he's racing to look after the tyre.

[RealRacing]

For what it's worth Hamilton drives Senna's McLAren