27 replies to this topic

[Kingsleyrob]

Oh dear

http://www.autoweek....RNEWS/120719856

Rob

[arttidesco]

[Ray Bell]

With 85 years of history, surely it will be able to salvage the 'ring...

The modern pestilence of 'developers' has created the problem, I wonder if a lynch mob is being mobilised?

[elansprint72]

When I read the story it reminded me of the Donington Park saga; that one tripped over early in the development/desecration process and fortunately had a happy ending.

[Duc-Man]

Let's look at it: the Nürburgring is in the middle of nowhere. Why would anybody go there if there is no race/event?
I'll surely don't drive 110 miles to go to a ... amusement park(?) I'll be through in about maybe 2 hours.
And I also won't go to that amusement park if there is races going on. That's why I go there in the first place.
I don't know why what fool came up with that 'amusement park' idea at all. Of course it was going to fail from the start.
Even the 'improved' museum they took down for the new 'big thing' wasn't that great. What was in there could have been displayed on much less space.

Hockenheim at the other hand is doing well and they offer nothing aside from the track,the races, the hotel and their little museum...

[hamsterace]

Let's look at it: the Nürburgring is in the middle of nowhere. Why would anybody go there if there is no race/event?
I'll surely don't drive 110 miles to go to a ... amusement park(?) I'll be through in about maybe 2 hours.
And I also won't go to that amusement park if there is races going on. That's why I go there in the first place.
I don't know why what fool came up with that 'amusement park' idea at all. Of course it was going to fail from the start.
Even the 'improved' museum they took down for the new 'big thing' wasn't that great. What was in there could have been displayed on much less space.

Hockenheim at the other hand is doing well and they offer nothing aside from the track,the races, the hotel and their little museum...

Absolutely Duc-Man. Lest we forget, the Eiffel is a remote and relatively poor part of Germany - and much of the original thinking behind the building of the circuit was for it to cure the unemployment problem in the area.

Sadly, there is an unfortunate secondary effect at work here as well. As I understand it, there has been considerable pressure (especially towards manufacturers testing on the Nordschleife) for their personnel to only stay in the new "official" Nurburgring hotels whilst they are using the circuit. This has had a detrimental effect on the numerous guest houses/ pensions and restaurants in the Adenau/ Nurburg/ Mullenbach area, and many have gone out of business as a result. Similarly, you can only purchase food and drink at official Nurburgring outlets via their top up card facility, meaning that the days of independant stallholders are pretty much numbered as well.

Not only have the developers taken the very existence of the circuit to the brink, they have also threatened the livelihoods of hundreds of businesses which rely on the circuit for their income as well...

[Duc-Man]

[quote name='hamsterace' date='Jul 19 2012, 17:49' post='5827993']
As I understand it, there has been considerable pressure (especially towards manufacturers testing on the Nordschleife) for their personnel to only stay in the new "official" Nurburgring hotels whilst they are using the circuit.
[quote]

As a manufacturer my response to such pressure would be: 'go play F*** yourself!'
Or I would take the cost for the hotel rooms out of the rent for the track.

[Bjorn Kjer]

There are always some smart event men ready to present cardboard constructions for Monopoly money and politicians always say yes to a front page picture. The New Nurburgring is such a sad story with intriges and silly suggestions being put to life (and death) for EU money of which they got no more thus causing this bankrupt !

[Charlieman]

I have never seen a race at the Nurburg Ring (that's what Pomeroy called it) but I cycled across it as a teenager. I'd cycled over lots of big hills before that (leave Nottingham at about 05:00 to be in a Blackpool pub at lunch time), but there was something so wearing about the Eiffel hills. It was the first time that I looked at a map and thought "you didn't get very far today". I can understand that Nurburg Ring is different in many ways.

The financial problems of the company that owns the Ring (the owner is effectively the federal state) and the operator are compounded because EU finance regulations have been "stretched". Transfer of operation to the owner requires that EU finance regs are again "stretched" and that many bank loans are written off.

Good luck to the federal state and local authorities who wish to regain control of the Ring. The theme park proposition -- in which they were complicit -- is hard to comprehend, and for the local citizens, I sincerely hope that government bodies can wriggle their way out of it.

[kayemod]

The Ring museum is the worst 'motorsport' museum I've ever been in, very little to see, unless you're hooked on video games. It's in a fairly rural area, but close to E31 & E44 Autobahns, so access is far easier than Silverstone and many other tracks. Whether the current GP track is worth going to is another matter of course, and many would say that European cars would be greatly improved if manufacturers stopped developing them to achieve better Nürburgring lap times. My heroine Sabine Schmidt managed to get a Transit van round there in 10 minutes, and surely that's fast enough for anyone.

[Amphicar]

The Ring museum is the worst 'motorsport' museum I've ever been in, very little to see, unless you're hooked on video games. It's in a fairly rural area, but close to E31 & E44 Autobahns, so access is far easier than Silverstone and many other tracks. Whether the current GP track is worth going to is another matter of course, and many would say that European cars would be greatly improved if manufacturers stopped developing them to achieve better Nürburgring lap times. My heroine Sabine Schmidt managed to get a Transit van round there in 10 minutes, and surely that's fast enough for anyone.

I wouldn't have thought the Nurburgring was any closer to the E31 and E44 than Silverstone is to the M1 and M40. It is a long time ago (and no doubt the local roads have been greatly improved) but when I made my only visits to the 'Ring (in 1967 and 1968) access was far from easy! Totally agree with you about manufacturers not developing their cars around Nurburgring lap times - and about Sabine Schmidt!

[arttidesco]

The Ring museum is the worst 'motorsport' museum I've ever been in, very little to see, unless you're hooked on video games. It's in a fairly rural area, but close to E31 & E44 Autobahns, so access is far easier than Silverstone and many other tracks. Whether the current GP track is worth going to is another matter of course, and many would say that European cars would be greatly improved if manufacturers stopped developing them to achieve better Nürburgring lap times. My heroine Sabine Schmidt managed to get a Transit van round there in 10 minutes, and surely that's fast enough for anyone.

Last time I went to the Nürburgring Museum circa 1988 they had 917/20-001 I presume that has gone then ?

Shirley better to develop cars to achieve better lap times round the Nürburgring than Hockenheimring for example ?

This Sabine Schmidt sounds like quite a lady must be time I paid the Nurburgring another visit

[Duc-Man]

The Ring museum is the worst 'motorsport' museum I've ever been in, very little to see, unless you're hooked on video games.

Last time I went to the Nürburgring Museum circa 1988 they had 917/20-001 I presume that has gone then ?

The museum had three incarnations.
The first one was build with the Grand-Prix track in 83/84.
The second one was the 'Erlebniswelt' which was expanding the existing museum by adding two big halls with little exibits. That one opened in 98 and got demolished in 2007.
The tird one is the 'ring°werk' that opened in '09.
The original museum was a museum as such but was too small. The 'Erlebniswelt' had a good size but not enough in it so they added the interactive part to it. Can't say anything bout the 'ring°werk' because I can't be bothered.

About the exibits there: I tink everyting there was or is on loan from whoever owens the vehicles. I doubt very much that they actually own anything they display.
At my first visit of the first museum they had the 917 spyder with the flat 16 engine there.

What pisses me off is that they sacrified 3 parking lots with space for hundreds of cars close to the main grandstand at the start/finish line for this Idontknowhowtocallit thing. And there is no replacement at all.


PS: interactive sounds so much better than video-games, doesn't it?

[Michael Ferner]

Today I read in a German newspaper that Bernie Ecclestone had been considering buying the 'ring, and that Formula 1 races at the venue would then, "of course", have been guaranteed! Now, I'm not really surprised to find this level of corruption in the business world that is F1 today, what took me aback is how open it is spoken about!! Doesn't this worry those (of us) who still follow modern racing???

[arttidesco]

Today I read in a German newspaper that Bernie Ecclestone had been considering buying the 'ring, and that Formula 1 races at the venue would then, "of course", have been guaranteed! Now, I'm not really surprised to find this level of corruption in the business world that is F1 today, what took me aback is how open it is spoken about!! Doesn't this worry those (of us) who still follow modern racing???

It certainly worries me, but I am not in a financial position to do much about it

[RStock]

Today I read in a German newspaper that Bernie Ecclestone had been considering buying the 'ring, and that Formula 1 races at the venue would then, "of course", have been guaranteed! Now, I'm not really surprised to find this level of corruption in the business world that is F1 today, what took me aback is how open it is spoken about!! Doesn't this worry those (of us) who still follow modern racing???

Bernie owned, or still does I guess, part of the Turkish track in effort to help keep it afloat. Let's hope he doesn't do to the 'ring what he did for the Istanbul folks.

[Ralf Pickel]

Bernie already (during the last, the Nürburgring, GP weekend) stated he would not buy the ´Ring nor would it make sense to him.

[arttidesco]

Bernie already (during the last, the Nürburgring, GP weekend) stated he would not buy the ´Ring nor would it make sense to him.

Bernie speak for 'give it to me for nothing' IIRC

[Stephen W]

Today I read in a German newspaper that Bernie Ecclestone had been considering buying the 'ring, and that Formula 1 races at the venue would then, "of course", have been guaranteed! Now, I'm not really surprised to find this level of corruption in the business world that is F1 today, what took me aback is how open it is spoken about!! Doesn't this worry those (of us) who still follow modern racing???

Bernie already (during the last, the Nürburgring, GP weekend) stated he would not buy the ´Ring nor would it make sense to him.

I don't think that buying the 'Ring would fit in with Mr Ecclestone's business plan. However what might fit is a cheap contract with the 'new' owners, whoever they may be, to 'run the German GP'. This would (a) make financial sense to Bernie, and (b) probably be better for the 'Ring in the long term as a guaranteed German GP would draw in investment.

[Michael Ferner]

Yeah, but the question is, how can Mr. Ecclestone "guarantee" a Grand Prix at any one track? If I'd be doing business with these crooks, I'd have them answer that to a court!

[kayemod]

Yeah, but the question is, how can Mr. Ecclestone "guarantee" a Grand Prix at any one track? If I'd be doing business with these crooks, I'd have them answer that to a court!

Famously, Bernie's word is his bond, so they could probably trust him, but I rather doubt if he's exactly pulling all his own strings at the moment, especially in Germany, with all that bit of unpleasantness that he's going to have to go through in Bayern. If things start looking bad for them by association, I can see CSC trying to disentangle themselves from any Bernie connection, in an attempt to protect their Golden Egg, they're going to want to sell that, sooner or later.

[DogEarred]

This enterprise was predictably doomed to failure for all, and more, of the reasons listed in preceeding posts.

I love to do some laps there once in a while & I'm sure I speak for others here when I say I get a feeling of being ripped off, taken advantage of & feeling positively unwelcome these days.
This failed 'business opportunity' will surely not be recoverable. In the natural order of things it would surely die.

The wish for most of us old scrotes & enthousiasts here would be solely for the preservation of the Nordschliefe 'free spirit' driving opportunity but to that end, it would require funding, one way or another, from taxpayers.
That would surely be of little interest, if not subject to the positive hostility, of all but a few nostalgic or wealthy enthousiasts & boy racers.

Although constructing the track, probably the only good thing he did, that Mr. Hitler still manages to torment us nearly 70 years after his demise...

Lastly, while I bow to Sabine Schmidt's excellent skills in most probably beating my Ford Transit lap time, I am still holding on to my self-claimed Morris Marina lap record!

Let's hope we can keep enjoying the best feeling you can have in (the front seat of) a car....

[Allan Lupton]

Although constructing the track, probably the only good thing he did, that Mr. Hitler still manages to torment us nearly 70 years after his demise...

Please can we not credit the construction of this track to that man, or his party.
It is well-known that construction started in 1925 and the track opened in 1927 and the National Socialists were not even the largest party in the Reichstag until 1932.
If you need a German politician's name to credit the 'Ring to, Konrad Adenauer, who was Mayor of Cologne then and (post second War) Chancellor of the Federal Republic, is your man!

[ktrhe]

Let's look at it: the Nürburgring is in the middle of nowhere. Why would anybody go there if there is no race/event?
I'll surely don't drive 110 miles to go to a ... amusement park(?) I'll be through in about maybe 2 hours.
And I also won't go to that amusement park if there is races going on. That's why I go there in the first place.
I don't know why what fool came up with that 'amusement park' idea at all. Of course it was going to fail from the start.
Even the 'improved' museum they took down for the new 'big thing' wasn't that great. What was in there could have been displayed on much less space.

Hockenheim at the other hand is doing well and they offer nothing aside from the track,the races, the hotel and their little museum...

You´re right! The real problems at the Nürburgring startet when they build up the "Ringwerk". It seems to be a kind of amusement park, but there is nothing. Except an roller coaster that never run, few resturants, a hotel and a casino. From Cologne is the Ring about 60 miles away, with a big amusement park near by to reach with public transport, with running roller coaster and so on. When they start to plan the "NEW NÜRBURGRING" in the end of the seventies, they was thinking about a amusement park also. But back at this time they denied it out of the reason that you wrote. In 2007 they was thinging it is a grat idea to build this stuff and tryed to find a private investor. But the investor was a cheater, but they already startet to rebuild the aera. So the county (Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz & Kreis Ahrweiler) had to give them the money. It coast all together about 350 Millions Euros to build up the new grandstands, roller coster and ringwelt. Neverless the expectet vistors never came. If you come to the ring, away from the Big events like 24 h race, F1 Grand Prix, Rock am Ring, the ring werk is like a dessert. No one around there, even the Ferrari Store ist closed since last year.
I hope the can preserve the race track and the Nordschleife. Evrything else they can turn down, it was just wasted money and it cost a lot of money just to keep it open.

[Tim Murray]

Please can we not credit the construction of this track to that man, or his party.

To add to Allan's comments, in the period 1925-27 the Nazi party had only a handful of Reichstag seats and Hitler himself was unable to run for any public office as he was not officially a German citizen.

[mfd]

Yeah, but the question is, how can Mr. Ecclestone "guarantee" a Grand Prix at any one track? If I'd be doing business with these crooks, I'd have them answer that to a court!

Perhaps just words Michael - conveniently the talk of rescue of the 'ring coinciding with "other problems" in a German court, or is that reading too much into it?

[Michael Ferner]

Yeah, but the question is, how can Mr. Ecclestone "guarantee" a Grand Prix at any one track? If I'd be doing business with these crooks, I'd have them answer that to a court!

Well, a German DA has finally indicted Mr. E., and I can't see how it can take much longer for other jurisdictions to follow suit. Is it just senility catching up with him, or the usual arrogance of a man way too mighty? Anyway, his days are numbered, it seems. A pity just that it happened forty years too late...

[Allan Lupton]

Don't mention petrol coupons. . .