3900 replies to this topic

[Alarcon]

What? Is the character assassination necessary. Furthermore, the same can be said about Vettel, in most of the points that you have mentioned.

I have never saw SV downplaying Alonso or Lewis. Much more than this, he admire them. Please read it and you´ll find here a sportman.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18673555


Assasination? Is not "assasination" what Alonso have said???



Following his opinion, all indicates Alonso is fighting against not a top driver, and if he finally beats him, his victory won´t have any kind of glory.

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 10:33.

[LiJu914]

How did senna react in 1992?

He was moaning that all these driver-aids would take away the driver´s influence. 2 years later - when he was at Williams, but the aids just about to be banned - he now complained that driving would become more dangerous.

[choyothe]

He'd have a hard time claiming that though, lets face it ;-)

I don't see how they're being 2 faced btw, bitter yes.

I meant that Vettel wouldn't find it necessary to take credit away from his opponents in every interview in always mentioning this. And for example mentioning in a separate interview Kimi is the only guy sees being at his level while Alonso is winning. Call it small minded or whatever but Alonso and Hamilton possess a lot of traits I consider highly unappealing.

Edited by choyothe, 27 October 2012 - 10:31.

[showtime]

I have never saw SV downplaying Alonso or Lewis. Much more than this, he admire them. Please read it and you´ll find here a sportman.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18673555


Assasination? Is not "assasination" what Alonso have said???



Now all indicates Alonso knows is fighting against not a good driver, and should win him at the end.

Sooner or later Vettel is going to have a season with a not so dominant car and we'll see how he behaves. Well, we already seen in 2010 what happens when everything is not how he would like it to be but you seem to have forgotten.

[Zava]

Sooner or later Vettel is going to have a season with a not so dominant car and we'll see how he behaves. Well, we already seen in 2010 what happens when everything is not how he would like it to be but you seem to have forgotten.

seems like you forgot it as well. go and watch korea.

[joshb]

I'm not such a partizan fan to say its all Vettel and no Newey but they way Alonso, Hamilton and (a big chunk of the F1 community) simply dismiss his achievements rankles with me. Vettel is mentally good enough to cope with it and does his talking on circuit but it winds me up when every time he does a good lap, a good race, an overtake you've got the masses playing the 'car' or Newey card, as if no driver ever has benefitted from the best car, or the fastest car or a great designer(s).
Even this year, Alonso has driven a slightly better season but whoever wins the title deserves it, 100%, even if that man has not been the best driver that year.
You don't simply luck in to titles and especially the kind of stats he (and a few other current drivers) has

[oligc94]

I'm not such a partizan fan to say its all Vettel and no Newey but they way Alonso, Hamilton and (a big chunk of the F1 community) simply dismiss his achievements rankles with me. Vettel is mentally good enough to cope with it and does his talking on circuit but it winds me up when every time he does a good lap, a good race, an overtake you've got the masses playing the 'car' or Newey card, as if no driver ever has benefitted from the best car, or the fastest car or a great designer(s).
Even this year, Alonso has driven a slightly better season but whoever wins the title deserves it, 100%, even if that man has not been the best driver that year.
You don't simply luck in to titles and especially the kind of stats he (and a few other current drivers) has

I'm a Hamilton fan, but certainly don't believe that all of Vettel's wins and poles are merely down to the car. However, when both the RBR drivers have pretty scrappy laps and still get a front row lockout, you surely can understand why people point to the strengths of the car to explain that level of dominance?

[Alarcon]

Sooner or later Vettel is going to have a season with a not so dominant car and we'll see how he behaves. Well, we already seen in 2010 what happens when everything is not how he would like it to be but you seem to have forgotten.

This season he had just a dominant car in Valencia, Suzuka and Korea. 3 races from 16.
McLaren had at Hungary, Spa, Australia and Singapore. 3 races from 16.
Ferrari had at Silverstone, Hockenheim, Monza and Malaysia. 4 races from 16.

Actually after a difficult start, Seb was leading after the 4th race of the WDC.

Actually, after all those 16 races, he´s leading the WDC on the most equal and difficult season ever, with 7 different winners.

Alonso likes to say "when he had no dominant car I was leading"... but he forgets to say "why". Because if Seb wouldn´t have left at Valencia, again as he was after the 4th race, he would have lead... Seb got penalties, issues and a puncture because Narain and he´s leading. If you take out all the "bad luck" of both drivers, Seb would lead by much more points... and there he had not the best car.

If you can´t accept that is your problem.

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 10:44.

[keeppari]

I have hard time deciding which is more pathetic. Alonso being a whiny **** and sore loser or the Alonso/Ferrari fanboys trying to discredit what Vettel has accomplished with RBR in recent years by bitching about Newey-designed cars.

How many titles is Schumi really worth in your opinion then? I mean 2003 was the only title-winning season he didn't win 50% or more of all the GP's.

I kinda feel sorry for de la Rosa as well. He's clearly WDC-winning material and deserves it but unfortunately everyone else is ruining it by doing a too good of a job.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

I'm not such a partizan fan to say its all Vettel and no Newey but they way Alonso, Hamilton and (a big chunk of the F1 community) simply dismiss his achievements rankles with me. Vettel is mentally good enough to cope with it and does his talking on circuit but it winds me up when every time he does a good lap, a good race, an overtake you've got the masses playing the 'car' or Newey card, as if no driver ever has benefitted from the best car, or the fastest car or a great designer(s).
Even this year, Alonso has driven a slightly better season but whoever wins the title deserves it, 100%, even if that man has not been the best driver that year.
You don't simply luck in to titles and especially the kind of stats he (and a few other current drivers) has

Exactly it's very distasteful when they do that fans and drivers alike, just because Vettel is getting the most out of the cars he is given. The car may be a rocketship but someone still needs to steer the rocketship and it's not like anyone could just get in the Red Bull and stick it on pole or get it to win.

On Alonso and Hamilton's part they realise that they're not getting any younger and that Sebastian could have 2 or 3 titles more than them in the coming years and that really gets to them because before Seb burst onto the scene they saw themselves as the dogs b****cks.

[joshb]

I'm a Hamilton fan, but certainly don't believe that all of Vettel's wins and poles are merely down to the car. However, when both the RBR drivers have pretty scrappy laps and still get a front row lockout, you surely can understand why people point to the strengths of the car to explain that level of dominance?

of course. I even posted it was his scrappiest Q3 for ages, maybe on a par with Singapore where both drivers had problems. Q3 was a big anti climax today because very few drivers did really clean laps. Even Perez/Maldonado went slower than Q2, Button slower, Vettel and Webber made errors, Massa did too apparantly, Hamilton on his first run... did anyone do themselves justice in Q3???

[showtime]

This season he had just a dominant car in Valencia, Suzuka and Korea. 3 races from 16.

Actually after a difficult start, he was leading after the 4th race of the WDC.

Actually, after all those 16 races, he´s leading the WDC on the most equal and difficult season ever, with 7 different winners.

It´s so clear.

If you think that by Brazil people are going to see this season as the most equal and difficult season ever the you are more biased that I ever though you will be.

[ayali]

I'm not such a partizan fan to say its all Vettel and no Newey but they way Alonso, Hamilton and (a big chunk of the F1 community) simply dismiss his achievements rankles with me. Vettel is mentally good enough to cope with it and does his talking on circuit but it winds me up when every time he does a good lap, a good race, an overtake you've got the masses playing the 'car' or Newey card, as if no driver ever has benefitted from the best car, or the fastest car or a great designer(s).

Come on joshb don't let them wind you up
Just stick em on ignore or even better just enjoy the sour grapes from (some) sore losers


It's all reminiscent of Michael's Ferrari days when it was all the "dream team" and not Michael, this always happens when there's an utterly dominant driver. Then Michael, now Sebastian. Just enjoy while it lasts

[Alarcon]

I'm a Hamilton fan, but certainly don't believe that all of Vettel's wins and poles are merely down to the car. However, when both the RBR drivers have pretty scrappy laps and still get a front row lockout, you surely can understand why people point to the strengths of the car to explain that level of dominance?

Scrappy laps? YES. Lewis made a mistake on his first turn. ALonso on his second. Massa on his first. Button too...

All the drivers made scrappy laps.

Maybe you forget when at Malaysia this season, despite a REAL mistake on the last turn, even with it, Lewis did the pole. That´s what we call gap (McLaren has the best % gap on Q3). But today Seb did not make any mistake on his flying lap and this lap was faster than anyone. Simply.

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 10:47.

[choyothe]

Sooner or later Vettel is going to have a season with a not so dominant car and we'll see how he behaves. Well, we already seen in 2010 what happens when everything is not how he would like it to be but you seem to have forgotten.

What did we see? We saw Vettel lose about 80 points towards Alonso for example on technical/other failures (or over 100 if you count his broken rollbar putting him off from a sure pole in Turkey and behind Webber), pick himself up mentally after the Spa mistake, then suffer another catastrophic failure at Korea only to come back to win the title. And this at the age of 22/23, yeah, what a terrible season from him.

[joshb]

This season he had just a dominant car in Valencia, Suzuka and Korea. 3 races from 16.
McLaren had at Hungary, Spa, Australia and Singapore. 3 races from 16.
Ferrari had at Silverstone, Hockenheim, Monza and Malaysia. 4 races from 16.

Actually after a difficult start, Seb was leading after the 4th race of the WDC.

Actually, after all those 16 races, he´s leading the WDC on the most equal and difficult season ever, with 7 different winners.

Alonso likes to say "when he had no dominant car I was leading"... but he forgets to say "why". Because if Seb wouldn´t have left at Valencia, another times, as he was after the 4th race, he would have lead... Seb got penalties, issues and a puncture because Narain.

If you can´t accept that is your problem.

To add on the start of the year. I watched the F1 show on Sky yesterday
To quote them it was like "It's been an amazing turnaround for Vettel who had a dreadful start to the season getting thrashed by Mark Webbe rin qualy and the races." and then now the car's good he's winning line
Granted Webber went 3-0 up in qualy but Vettel was up on points after 4 and 5 races, had Malaysia not been done by Narain and China been 2 laps shorter, he would've been 4-0 up in race finishes so this idea of being thrashed doesn't go. Yes he was unconvincing at times but good old media adding petrol to the fire.

[Alarcon]

If you think that by Brazil people are going to see this season as the most equal and difficult season ever the you are more biased that I ever though you will be.

I don´t care about people. I care about history.

And history is telling this season is the most difficult and equal season ever in F1 history. Never before with 6 WDC on the track and never before with 7 different winners the same year, and never before with only 2 tenths between the 1st and the 14th in some Q3.

It´s not a question to accept. That´s not an opinion, BUT A FACT.

If the driver you support is not leading this historical season, it´s not my fault.

You know there are still people who said they have seen Elvis...

[robefc]

To add on the start of the year. I watched the F1 show on Sky yesterday
To quote them it was like "It's been an amazing turnaround for Vettel who had a dreadful start to the season getting thrashed by Mark Webbe rin qualy and the races." and then now the car's good he's winning line
Granted Webber went 3-0 up in qualy but Vettel was up on points after 4 and 5 races, had Malaysia not been done by Narain and China been 2 laps shorter, he would've been 4-0 up in race finishes so this idea of being thrashed doesn't go. Yes he was unconvincing at times but good old media adding petrol to the fire.

He was under performing in some qualis but his racing was top notch, which I thought would actually have ticked a box that was lacking last year (not lacking because he couldn't race but that hadn't proved he could)

[joshb]

Come on joshb don't let them wind you up
Just stick em on ignore or even better just enjoy the sour grapes from (some) sore losers


It's all reminiscent of Michael's Ferrari days when it was all the "dream team" and not Michael, this always happens when there's an utterly dominant driver. Then Michael, now Sebastian. Just enjoy while it lasts

I've seen it for 3 years so i should be used to it but what point do you calling it luck and start thinking it's actually someone rather good?
For MS, his comeback has only solidified the opinion of those who call it the dream team and not MS talent.
I can only imagine the discussions/rants had the internet and forums been born 20 years before...

[toxicfusion]

This season he had just a dominant car in Valencia, Suzuka and Korea. 3 races from 16.
McLaren had at Hungary, Spa, Australia and Singapore. 3 races from 16.
Ferrari had at Silverstone, Hockenheim, Monza and Malaysia. 4 races from 16.

Hockenheim, really? the Ferrari was anything but dominate. Fernando got pole in the wet and then spent the race doing just enough to keep faster cars behind him.

A team being dominate to me shows when both cars are at the front end, where you've compared Vettel having a dominate car to McLaren and Ferrari. There is another Red Bull driver

[Alarcon]

What did we see? We saw Vettel lose about 80 points towards Alonso for example on technical/other failures (or over 100 if you count his broken rollbar putting him off from a sure pole in Turkey and behind Webber), pick himself up mentally after the Spa mistake, then suffer another catastrophic failure at Korea only to come back to win the title. And this at the age of 22/23, yeah, what a terrible season from him.

In fact is funny Alonso lost the title because he was the top driver made the much mistakes.

Australia, China, Monaco, Valencia, Abu Dabi...

We have seen how reacted Alonso when things were not where belongs... Petrov have something to tell about.

Seb is only 25 years old and he is driving as one of 35. Not only fastest but with brain. Taking the pressure Alonso puts on him and delivering his 35 pole position so far. Hope he will stay focus just in him. He doesn´t need to downplay any other driver or try child mindgames. That´s the looser´s way and I just hope he will be always as cool, in the victory and in the defeat too.

[robefc]

Hockenheim, really? the Ferrari was anything but dominate. Fernando got pole in the wet and then spent the race doing just enough to keep faster cars behind him.

A team being dominate to me shows when both cars are at the front end, where you've compared Vettel having a dominate car to McLaren and Ferrari. There is another Red Bull driver

Hungary and Singapore are amusing as well

[Zava]

Hockenheim, really? the Ferrari was anything but dominate. Fernando got pole in the wet and then spent the race doing just enough to keep faster cars behind him.

A team being dominate to me shows when both cars are at the front end, where you've compared Vettel having a dominate car to McLaren and Ferrari. There is another Red Bull driver

hard to achieve with Massa in the other car...
and also that means you say red bull was only dominant in korea, right?

Edited by Zava, 27 October 2012 - 10:58.

[toxicfusion]

hard to achieve with Massa in the other car...
and also that means you say red bull was only dominant in korea, right?

Nope because Front end isn't the top 2. I'd say it was the top 3 or 4 maybe 5th at a push.

Also I was criticising comparing Vettel to teams rather drivers. One man versus Two, hardly forms fair comparisons.

[Alarcon]

He was under performing in some qualis but his racing was top notch, which I thought would actually have ticked a box that was lacking last year (not lacking because he couldn't race but that hadn't proved he could)

Seb has a lot of problems with the car behavior on the beggining of the season. He was "lost" and struggling and he even changed his spec at Malaysia qualy. I have an interview with Mark after China race where he recog. he was much comfortable with the car ever and he was very happy.

Actually when Seb adapted, he inmediatly beat again his teammate (a real fast guy over one lap), he was 0-3 on the first 3 races, and after that Seb beat him 11-3. Seb was feeling more confortable and confident with his car and that talks about how quickly and amazing was his work adapting to the new car.

However what I´m sure is M.Webber experience helped the team much more than Seb this season.

[showtime]

I don´t care about people. I care about history.

And history is telling this season is the most difficult and equal season ever in F1 history. Never before with 6 WDC on the track and never before with 7 different winners the same year, and never before with only 2 tenths between the 1st and the 14th in some Q3.

It´s not a question to accept. That´s not an opinion, BUT A FACT.

If the driver you support is not leading this historical season, it´s not my fault.

You know there are still people who said they have seen Elvis...

I will talk about facts when the season ends, by then we will know how many points Vettel has, how many the second has, when did he became champion, how may wins he has.... About your "facts" I don't how Schumacher or Button being a WDC is related to how difficult this season has been for Vettel. And the differences in Q... you are talking about some sessions at the beginning of the season, I'm sure there will be more sessions were Vettel has 2 tenths over the second driver.

[Alarcon]

Hungary and Singapore are amusing as well

Well, here you have the prove of your "amusing":

McLaren times at Hungary Q3 were 1:20.953 Hamilton + 1:21.583 J.Button= 2:42.536
Lotus times at Hungary Q3 were 1:21.366 Grosjean + 1:21.730 Kimi R. = 2:43.096
Red Bull times at Hungary Q3 were 1:21.416 S.Vettel + 1:21.715 M.Webber= 2:43.131


Now let´s go to Singapore:

McLaren times at Singapore Q3 were 1:46.362 Hamilton + 1:46.939 Button = 2:93.301
Red Bull times at Singapore Q3 were 1:46.905 S.Vettel + 1:47.475 M.Webber= 2:94.380

Dou you want the % or you will be able to do yourself.

McLaren was the dominant car in both tracks at qualy (much more if we consider Button as a "great qualifier"...) At Hungary Lotus was faster on race pace but not as Singapore where even Lewis recog. he was sandbaggin.

Now it´s my turn to "amusing".

EDIT: McLaren has been much dominant so far than RB on qualy: they were "dominant" at Australia Q3, Malaysia Q3, Barcelona Q3, Monza Q3, Spa Q3, Hungary Q3 and Singapore Q3. 7 races out of 17 so far. RB was "dominant" at Valencia, Canada, Suzuka, Korea and India. 5 races out from 17 so far.

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 11:26.

[LiJu914]

Hockenheim, really? the Ferrari was anything but dominate. Fernando got pole in the wet and then spent the race doing just enough to keep faster cars behind him.

A team being dominate to me shows when both cars are at the front end, where you've compared Vettel having a dominate car to McLaren and Ferrari. There is another Red Bull driver

And in which way is it clear that RB or McL were faster in Hockenheim? Because Alonso didn´t leave Vettel and Button in the dust?
Hamilton and Massa fell to the back of the field after the start, yet they were faster than Webber (who started and finished 8th) throughout the race, despite having to deal with more traffic - with Massa being the fastest of these three guys.

[Jejking]

What did we see? We saw Vettel lose about 80 points towards Alonso for example on technical/other failures (or over 100 if you count his broken rollbar putting him off from a sure pole in Turkey and behind Webber), pick himself up mentally after the Spa mistake, then suffer another catastrophic failure at Korea only to come back to win the title. And this at the age of 22/23, yeah, what a terrible season from him.

To follow up on that, at that time he really was in the underdog position because Alonso and Webber were stealing all the thunder in the spotlights. Up until Abu Dhabi, with all the bad luck, it still seemed to be going on between FA and MW and SV was an outsider. He still did good but it wasn't like he had to carry the whole world on his shoulders before MW fell off the cliff.

[canaus]

I must admit I thought earlier in the year that maybe he didn't deserve the last two titles, but the way he's turned it around is impressive.

He really is without equal in this sport.

And another pole position!! Adrian did fantastically today, if he carries on like this people will class him amongst the all time greats.

[velgajski1]

I have hard time deciding which is more pathetic. Alonso being a whiny **** and sore loser or the Alonso/Ferrari fanboys trying to discredit what Vettel has accomplished with RBR in recent years by bitching about Newey-designed cars.

How many titles is Schumi really worth in your opinion then? I mean 2003 was the only title-winning season he didn't win 50% or more of all the GP's.

I kinda feel sorry for de la Rosa as well. He's clearly WDC-winning material and deserves it but unfortunately everyone else is ruining it by doing a too good of a job.

[Borko]

In fact is funny Alonso lost the title because he was the top driver made the much mistakes.

Australia, China, Monaco, Valencia, Abu Dabi...

Valencia and Abu Dhabi? it was Alonso's fault that SC came out in Valencia, and that his team made a wrong call? I can't believe what I am reading.

I know this is not Alonso topic, sorry.

[robefc]

EDIT: McLaren has been much dominant so far than RB on qualy: they were "dominant" at Australia Q3, Malaysia Q3, Barcelona Q3, Monza Q3, Spa Q3, Hungary Q3 and Singapore Q3. 7 races out of 17 so far. RB was "dominant" at Valencia, Canada, Suzuka, Korea and India. 5 races out from 17 so far.

I didn't realise we were talking only about quali, lotus were quicker in the race than macca in hungary and vettel was going fine in q1 and q2 in singapore, he had a poor q3 whilst jenson was 4th on the grid, hardly a dominant car.
Monza would have been interesting if alonso had the opportunity in q3.

[toxicfusion]

And in which way is it clear that RB or McL were faster in Hockenheim? Because Alonso didn´t leave Vettel and Button in the dust?
Hamilton and Massa fell to the back of the field after the start, yet they were faster than Webber (who started and finished 8th) throughout the race, despite having to deal with more traffic - with Massa being the fastest of these three guys.

Question wasn't to do with faster, but dominate. Ferrari were not dominate at Hockeinheim which what the original poster suggested. Who has gone on to compare qualifying as a sign of dominating, at none of the tracks originally listed have Ferrari been quickest of all, Fernando has but not Ferrari and weather provided a false picture of ultimate performance.

Edited by toxicfusion, 27 October 2012 - 11:49.

[Alarcon]

I didn't realise we were talking only about quali, lotus were quicker in the race than macca in hungary and vettel was going fine in q1 and q2 in singapore, he had a poor q3 whilst jenson was 4th on the grid, hardly a dominant car.
Monza would have been interesting if alonso had the opportunity in q3.

Well we were talking about quali, mate. Because a lot of people are assuming RB is dominant in India too... where they did the pole by just 2 tenths and there is still a race to come!

That´s why I said it.

Seb had not a poor Q3 at Singapore. The track temp. changed and he lost the grip, as he said. Just look his teamamte. The difference was still the same between them in Q1 a half a second than was at Q3.

On qualy. McLaren has been faster than the rest during almost the season. Australia, Malaysia, Barcelona, Monza, Spa, Hungary and Singapore. While on race pace they only were the dominant car in Australia, Monza, Spa and Singapore. In any case, a little bit dominant than RB on both.

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 11:56.

[Sakae]

I heard nice things from Vettel about Alonso and Hamilton, yet for once I am yet to hear reciprocated compliment. Both drivers, Alonso and Hamilton are what they are, which perhaps explains why I don't like or respect either of them.

Good momentum, possessed by the speed, all ready for the main event. Good luck, keep going!

Edited by Sakae, 27 October 2012 - 11:56.

[Alarcon]

Question wasn't to do with faster, but dominate. Ferrari were not dominate at Hockeinheim which what the original poster suggested. Who has gone on to compare qualifying as a sign of dominating, at none of the tracks originally listed have Ferrari been quickest of all, Fernando has but not Ferrari and weather provided a false picture of ultimate performance.

Well, maybe now you would like to re-write what some people have they said about 2011 season history...

Vettel was quickest of all... but not RB. In fact without Seb on the track, Webber would not have been WDC and scored less pole positions than McLaren.

;)

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 11:59.

[LiJu914]

Question wasn't to do with faster, but dominate. Ferrari were not dominate at Hockeinheim which what the original poster suggested. Who has gone on to compare qualifying as a sign of dominating, at none of the tracks originally listed have Ferrari been quickest of all, Fernando has but not Ferrari and weather provided a false picture of ultimate performance.

Fair enough, but as you said "...faster cars behind him" it read to me as you would suggest, that others had an advantage that day.

[canaus]

To add on the start of the year. I watched the F1 show on Sky yesterday
To quote them it was like "It's been an amazing turnaround for Vettel who had a dreadful start to the season getting thrashed by Mark Webbe rin qualy and the races." and then now the car's good he's winning line
Granted Webber went 3-0 up in qualy but Vettel was up on points after 4 and 5 races, had Malaysia not been done by Narain and China been 2 laps shorter, he would've been 4-0 up in race finishes so this idea of being thrashed doesn't go. Yes he was unconvincing at times but good old media adding petrol to the fire.

Vettel was in front because of Webber's usually bad starts or strategy mistakes(Malaysia, Spain), otherwise in the first 6 races Webber was faster, apart from Bahrain of course.
I understend that it's frustrating for you to see so much people, including Hamilton and Alonso trying to diminish Vettel's achivements, but you have to blame only Vettel, for his quite poor show when the car was not dominant and so planted as it's today.
On the other hand, it's poor show for some Alonso fanboys with this constant trolling about Newey and car. No driver won a WDC, by himself. It's a team sport.

Otherwise, can't understand Vettel's fans saying Seb was poor today, because all drivers made mistakes in Q3. It seems this track is certainly not easy to drive.

[canaus]

This season he had just a dominant car in Valencia, Suzuka and Korea. 3 races from 16.
McLaren had at Hungary, Spa, Australia and Singapore. 3 races from 16.
Ferrari had at Silverstone, Hockenheim, Monza and Malaysia. 4 races from 16.

Actually after a difficult start, Seb was leading after the 4th race of the WDC.

Actually, after all those 16 races, he´s leading the WDC on the most equal and difficult season ever, with 7 different winners.

Alonso likes to say "when he had no dominant car I was leading"... but he forgets to say "why". Because if Seb wouldn´t have left at Valencia, again as he was after the 4th race, he would have lead... Seb got penalties, issues and a puncture because Narain and he´s leading. If you take out all the "bad luck" of both drivers, Seb would lead by much more points... and there he had not the best car.

If you can´t accept that is your problem.

There haven't been a race where Ferrari was dominating. Don't be ridiculous.

[canaus]

Well, maybe now you would like to re-write what some people have they said about 2011 season history...

Vettel was quickest of all... but not RB. In fact without Seb on the track, Webber would not have been WDC and scored less pole positions than McLaren.

;)

Comedy gold

[Alarcon]

Vettel was in front because of Webber's usually bad starts or strategy mistakes(Malaysia, Spain), otherwise in the first 6 races Webber was faster, apart from Bahrain of course.
I understend that it's frustrating for you to see so much people, including Hamilton and Alonso trying to diminish Vettel's achivements, but you have to blame only Vettel, for his quite poor show when the car was not dominant and so planted as it's today.
On the other hand, it's poor show for some Alonso fanboys with this constant trolling about Newey and car. No driver won a WDC, by himself. It's a team sport.

Otherwise, can't understand Vettel's fans saying Seb was poor today, because all drivers made mistakes in Q3. It seems this track is certainly not easy to drive.

It should be much more frustrating for other fans to see how a young driver is kicking the Lewis and Alonso asses since 2010. And even much more for Lewis and Alonso. That´s why I doesn´t care about what they say.

Learn this, mate:

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (J.Swift)
After 2008 win at Monza, Seb was a diamond, praised by all of the people in F1, the rookie of the year, the future... in the moment this "future" become "present"... Alonso and Lewis lost their "status" and records and inmediatly were frustrated. Its a common thing in sports and we have seen many times, there will be always one driver/sportman better than you. Always. And it will happen to Seb someday.

Wait 2 or 3 seasons without Vettel defeats and we will see a lot of people (including drivers) prasing him again.;)

Edited by Alarcon, 27 October 2012 - 12:21.

[canaus]

It should be much more frustrating for other fans to see how a young driver is kicking the Lewis and Alonso asses since 2010. And even much more for Lewis and Alonso. That´s why I doesn´t care about what they say.

Learn this, mate:

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (J.Swift)
After 2008 win at Monza, Seb was a diamond, praised by all of the people in F1, the rookie of the year, the future... in the moment this "future" become "present"... Alonso and Lewis lost their "status" and records and inmediatly were frustrated. Its a common thing in sports and we have seen many times, there will be always one driver/sportman better than you. Always. And it will happen to Seb someday.

Wait 2 or 3 seasons without Vettel defeats and we will see a lot of people (including drivers) prasing him again.;)

Comedy gold again Keep it up. But don't expect to be taken seriously by someone.

[whitevisor]

And again another boring RedBull romp into the sunset. Just give them thew trophies already.

[Longtimefan]

And again another boring RedBull romp into the sunset. Just give them thew trophies already.

yeah, get it over with, put us out of our misery.

God forbid if we want to see any actual 'racing' these days..

[Massa_f1]

It should be much more frustrating for other fans to see how a young driver is kicking the Lewis and Alonso asses since 2010. And even much more for Lewis and Alonso. That´s why I doesn´t care about what they say.

Learn this, mate:

"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." (J.Swift)
After 2008 win at Monza, Seb was a diamond, praised by all of the people in F1, the rookie of the year, the future... in the moment this "future" become "present"... Alonso and Lewis lost their "status" and records and inmediatly were frustrated. Its a common thing in sports and we have seen many times, there will be always one driver/sportman better than you. Always. And it will happen to Seb someday.

Wait 2 or 3 seasons without Vettel defeats and we will see a lot of people (including drivers) prasing him again.;)

Alonso and Lewis where meant to be the 2 top dogs of the new post Schumacher era. Sadly for them one young kid called Sebastian Vettel came along. Now all they can do is try to is claim it is all the car. Anyway i for one love it. It will be even more amusing if Seb moves teams and still beats the two of them.

Edited by Massa_f1, 27 October 2012 - 12:40.

[Zava]

but you have to blame only Vettel, for his quite poor show when the car was not dominant and so planted as it's today.

the car was not dominant in the first 14 races, and Vettel was second in the points. how is that a quite poor show?

[canaus]

the car was not dominant in the first 14 races, and Vettel was second in the points. how is that a quite poor show?

Make an effort and read all my post please. I was speaking quite clearly about first races.

[Sakae]

And again another boring RedBull romp into the sunset. Just give them thew trophies already.

...would you be happier if you see Hamilton and Alonso trading lead instead Vettel getting in the mix? I do not know about you, but Vettel is not romping anywhere yet. If he pulls lead a few seconds that's just because he too, like a car, has to work for it, right?

Edited by Sakae, 27 October 2012 - 12:49.

[krea]

Make an effort and read all my post please. I was speaking quite clearly about first races.

Vettel was leading the standings after 4 races