94 replies to this topic

[Lola5000]

Ray.....I should have known the answer re the Alfa and Fitz,I owned in the early '80s one of the dealer team Alfa GTV's,the car that Sue Gibson (Ransom ?) and many others raced including Bell at the '77 race,it did about 4 or 5 1,000's.Sold it to a mate who sold it to his brother,shell was destroyed at Targa one year.I'm told CAMS have given permission for it to be re-shelled and logged as a Group C car.

[Ray Bell]

Christine Gibson... while pregnant...

And I've checked with Bruce Richardson regarding the '76 Bathurst event.

"We could see that the axles were the weak point in the car," he said, "so I told the drivers they had to be very careful not to put wheels off the edge, to look after the axles. Then when the car slowed, we naturally assumed it was an axle, and we could assume in our minds that the slipping we could hear was the diff."

After a couple of laps, however, it must have become clearer. Or maybe not. But I was there in the pits with those people as the last laps ran out, in among all the anguish (which was being televised all over Australia live) and it's quite likely that Bob and Ron have gone off to the presentation believing still it was an axle. But when the car was wheeled in Bruce could see it wasn't.

"The car didn't come back to my place after the race," he continued. "It had been at my place for about two months before the race being prepared, but it went back to Hoddo's own workshop and Ron Missen pulled it down. He found that the input shaft bearing's outer case had cracked and that had caused the seal to leak oil out the front of the gearbox onto the clutch."

[seldo]

Thats the one, a rear main seal in the engine soaking the clutch, at least I was the right end of the car!
The Stonie cartoon of that with Fitz running inside the r/r corner of the car is I think what skewed most people. The diffs and axles on the L34 were quite fragile. I think too the commentary on the day got it wrong. There was quite a coating of oil up the back of the car at the end.

Dont think so Lee. I was there and it was definitely gearbox or diff oil - as you would know there is no mistaking the acrid smell. But I think there was so much deliberate? mis-information spread that it's very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff...
As it drove past the pits it sounded like clutch slip, so I'd guess gearbox oil.
edit: Ray's post elaborates on the same issue.

Edited by seldo, 26 August 2012 - 00:32.

[GMACKIE]

Thanks for clearing the 'broken axle' thing up, Ray. I have always believed the 'slipping' was the LSD.......just shows that you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

[Lee Nicolle]

Thanks for clearing the 'broken axle' thing up, Ray. I have always believed the 'slipping' was the LSD.......just shows that you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

Greg, those cars used Detroit lockers, the Holden LSD would last about 5 min in a race application. With the wide slicks they used.
Though how those poor little axles [1" 23 spline] ever lived with the clunking and banging from those horrid things I do not know. But I dont think they were allowed to lock the diffs in those days. For mine I would prefer the LSD to drive but in experience they burnt out really quickly.

Having oil go forward from an Aussie box is something I have never experienced, whereas rear main leaks all too often on those cars.

I think the last car at Bathurst to have clutch slip was Skaife, just before he was hit by Jack Perkins. The fact that he was revving the ring out of it instead of rolling off to let the clutch grab and cool down was just plain dumb.
The mechanical sympathy that Fitz showed to get the L34 home seems to have disapeared with current drivers. The mechanical sympathy to drive those cars was far greater at all levels as they were fast and very fragile.
The Fords would have been a bit better in the driveline sense but suspension and engines in particular were very vulnerable with oil surge

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 25 August 2012 - 21:27.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
.....Having oil go forward from an Aussie box is something I have never experienced, whereas rear main leaks all too often on those cars.....

Bruce said he'd never seen a bearing do what this one did...

Good cause for the seal to fail.

[Paul Newby]

Ray.....I should have known the answer re the Alfa and Fitz,I owned in the early '80s one of the dealer team Alfa GTV's,the car that Sue Gibson (Ransom ?) and many others raced including Bell at the '77 race,it did about 4 or 5 1,000's.Sold it to a mate who sold it to his brother,shell was destroyed at Targa one year.I'm told CAMS have given permission for it to be re-shelled and logged as a Group C car.

This is not correct.

The intention was to reshell and log as a Group C car, but CAMS would not allow this. The owner did build up another shell and transferred the mechanicals over - but this is now a Group S Car.

I remember seeing the Group C car as a rolling shell outside a Melbourne workshop back in 2006 - it was deteriorating quite badly.

The next time I saw the Group C car was two months ago at the workshop of Tim Doyle in the NSW Southern Highlands. The original bodyshell had been painstakingly restored and the ex Foley Bathurst 77 class winning Group C GTV lives!

[brucemoxon]

This is not correct.

The intention was to reshell and log as a Group C car, but CAMS would not allow this. The owner did build up another shell and transferred the mechanicals over - but this is now a Group S Car.

I remember seeing the Group C car as a rolling shell outside a Melbourne workshop back in 2006 - it was deteriorating quite badly.

The next time I saw the Group C car was two months ago at the workshop of Tim Doyle in the NSW Southern Highlands. The original bodyshell had been painstakingly restored and the ex Foley Bathurst 77 class winning Group C GTV lives!

Strange, 'cause they allowed Steve Williams to reshell the #73 Bob Holden Escort after Jake rolled it at the last big meeting at Oran Park.

Oh well, the only thing that comes of expecting consistency is sadness. But it will be good to see another small-bore Group C car (hopefully) racing.



Bruce Moxon

[David Shaw]

That spot on the Great Western Highway, about 10km before you get to Bathurst, when you first catch sight of Mount Panorama.

Bruce Moxon

It is surprising the distance from which that quartz lettering can be seen, and it definitely gets me stirred up with anticipation.

Another couple of highlights for me, when the world came to Bathurst in 1987. The eligibility issue aside, it was great to have such a great field of tin-top drivers come and see what they had been missing out on. It raised the professionalism of our teams and it flowed on with many of the same visitors for a few years after. The highlight for me was Andy Miedecke taking it up to the WTCC big guns in a somewhat under-powered Australian built car.

The one I wish I did see was 1969 (the first I can remember is 1970 as a 7yo) when it was a tightly packed grid full of raw power. The first 20 spots on the grid were 350s and 351s.
From position 9 on the grid John Goss stuffed the start up well and truly, which sent a ripple effect right down through the grid. So bad was his start he was 16th coming out of Hell, where Mike Savva had gone paddock bashing down the inside in his GTHO. Goss passed 5 cars on the way to Quarry, then passed Bill Brown and Moffat (who had pulled off to the side unable to engage a gear for the time being) on the way to Skyline. He then got by Savva on the inside as they started the run down the hill, but the close following Brown was unsighted by Savva who moved back over and up the bank went Brown to cause pandemonium amongst the 85% of the field which were behind him.
It was then a tortoise and hare race, the HOs untouchable for pace but unable to keep their specially imported tyres together for more than a couple of laps at a time and the Bond/Roberts Monaro took the flag.

[Falcadore]

Strange, 'cause they allowed Steve Williams to reshell the #73 Bob Holden Escort after Jake rolled it at the last big meeting at Oran Park.

Oh well, the only thing that comes of expecting consistency is sadness. But it will be good to see another small-bore Group C car (hopefully) racing.



Bruce Moxon

As I understand it CAMS will allow a car already log booked as a Historic Group C to be reshelled to return it to racing, but will not allow a car to be reshelled in order to gain Historic Group C log book. Essentially to allow someone to repair from a shunt rather than use the allowance given to repair current racers to get around the strict rules of creating Historic Group C (or Group Nd) cars.

It is consistent to a point and yet also a double standard. But a double standard with some logic.

[Graham Clayton]

That was amazing,we saw the car about a week later,we were on our way to Silverdale and it was on the forecourt of a Dealer that was in that area.Roberts was lucky to walk away,it had no roll cage and was a mess inside.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=d2OZd_Pkhb8

 

According to Bill Tuckey in "Australia's Greatest Motor Race", the car ended up 60 metres down the slope against a tree. How did the ARDC officials manage to get the car back up onto the track? Did they attach a tow rope and winch it back up the slope to the track?

[Ian G]

According to Bill Tuckey in "Australia's Greatest Motor Race", the car ended up 60 metres down the slope against a tree. How did the ARDC officials manage to get the car back up onto the track? Did they attach a tow rope and winch it back up the slope to the track?

 

I'm not sure but probaly a crane,there are some big buggers in the Bathurst area.I was in a Rally in the 1970's out the back of Orange and a car ended down a gorge/cliff and the driver had to pay for a crane too come out from Lithgow(IIRC) and lift it onto a truck for removal.

[Stinky]

Hullo Guys.

Purely from memory they retreived the Tony Roberts car by accessing one of the properties on Con Rod.

The paddock up under there was part of it.

One thing I am sure of.

If that car would have caught fire there was no way on earth any circuit fire gear could have got to it.

It was a long,long way down that slope.

Cheers.

Roger.

[GMACKIE]

Hullo Guys.

Purely from memory they retreived the Tony Roberts car by accessing one of the properties on Con Rod.

Cheers.

Roger.

Probably Kevin Catt's place.

[Stinky]

Hullo Again All;

This is nothing to do with racing but a humourous and vivid memory.

We were on the fire tender at Reid Park gates.

Before they shifted us to the other side.

A couple of hours into the race these five yahoos arrived. (decidedly "tired and emotional") and climbed a tree near us complete with two cartons!!

The race, had settled down so this mob were bored and started chucking cans at us!

Only thing was the cans were unopened.

We,of course had our gloves on and were catching them and stowing them in our Eskies.

After around an hour or so we had two dozen cans in the Esky.

Three coppers arrived to see what was going on.

We told them what had happened and the Senior copper asked how many cans we had.

A full carton was the reply."

Coppers said "We are off duty after the event we will help you drink them.

Over they go, drag the yahoos out of the tree and chucked them out.

Needless to say, a very convivial evening followed!!

Cheers.

Roger.

[Ian G]

Getting way OT but similar story with a close friend in the 1970's,he had just joined the NSW Police and one of his first jobs/deployments was the anti-apartheid demonstrations at the SCG South African football game,protestors were throwing golf balls at the Police cordoned  around the oval,he was a keen golfer so he went around looking officious and picked them up,he had several dozen balls by the end of the Test. 

[Ray Bell]

Easter 1966... Peter Brock waking up in an early Holden in the quarry on the infield side of the climb out of the Cutting...

 

1967, the same star-to-be constantly referring to the XR GTs as Customlines. Of course, it was abbreviated to either 'Cussies' or 'Cussos'.

[Lee Nicolle]

I think the most memorable moment for many is Bill Brown trying to cut a GTHO in half with a NSW Speedways Act sleeper fence. It was quite a good try but not quite.
The 'Stonie' photo book comment was very good too, with the pic of a very disheveled Brown 'sorry about your fence lady but it is a motor race' or words very close to that.
Being serious, it was a frightening accident with very good footage. And luckily Bill survived largely undamaged unlike a couple of other tragedys.
Dickys effort in the green XE deserves a mention, as does KB in the '6' Camaro with a broken wheel. There is ofcourse dozens of other on track incidents too. Including Lowndes outside pass on a sleepy John Bowe!

[GMACKIE]

Mount Panorama has a remarkable ability to permanently 'burn in' memories. Although my first race there was 50 years ago [Easter, 1963], I still vividly recall the first time down 'Con-Rod' in my daily-driver VW Beetle, at 102 MPH.

 

The rear-wheel-steer produced by the rear swing-axles became quite apparent, when the cross-wind hit the side of the car after the 'Hump'. The Beetle hopped sideways about a metre.....I thought a wheel fell off at first. After that I was ready for it....sort of.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle

I think the most memorable moment for many is Bill Brown trying to cut a GTHO in half with a NSW Speedways Act sleeper fence.....

 

I always pick up on this one, so it's not just you, Lee...

 

For convenience sake many did use 'sleepers' as posts for the fence required by the Speedways Act of 1957, however the fencing itself was never made of sleepers. The planks had to be 2" hardwood, I don't remember what the requirement was for width, and there was a stipulation regarding the gap between the planks.

 

Many flag marshal barriers etc were, though, built entirely of sleepers.

[Amaroo Park]

My favourite memory was having the privilege of working with Bob Holden in 1991 when Ranuo Aalltonen came out to co drive with him. Fantastic experience, great people too

[seldo]

Of many memorable recollections from Bathurst, one that was gratifying occurred after the fuel injection supposedly coming from Germany failed to arrive for our ZZ 1800 TC Gemini.
Headly McGee of speedway fame said he could do something in the remaining 10 days and cobbled up a constant-flow system for us that we fitted, untried and went Bathurst. After some fairly serious mixture problems in practise, I went to the local cop-shop, asked to see the duty sergeant, explained our dilemma and asked if there was a stretch of road where we could go and test a bit, using a trade-plate...
In a loud voice he proclaimed that, No!, unfortunately he wasn't able to give us permission to break the law, but then lowered his voice conspiratorially, and said - "but if you go out of town to the Molong Road about 8 miles out, there's a good long straight stretch there where you can have a go and not worry too many people....and, don't worry, we'll only be working the main road into Bathurst..."
We proceeded to the designated spot and blasted up and down the road in the dark for a bit, stopping in between runs to use a number drill on the injectors, and finally had it running half ok.
Our only interruption was from a local cockie who came to complain that we were disturbing his cows, but departed fairly quickly again clutching a carton of one of our sponsor's products, Cinzano.

[Ray Bell]

This was one reason, of course, that the Brian Muir S4 remained registered...

 

Testing somewhere out on the Orange road was a regular thing for him.

[Amaroo Park]

In the early Nineties a Group A Corolla driven by a National Champion was put on a car trailer one night and headed out towards Blayney for some night time running in of the engine

[mouserat159]

Hi I don't know if I have the right forum or not, but I have a few photo that Dad took at the 72 Bathurst 500. Is this the right part of the forum to put them in?

[275 GTB-4]

Why not? The forum is a huge jumble of fascinating facts, priceless images and masses of mis-information not to mention hobby horses ridden by those with a hidden agenda  Post away

[Ray Bell]

Your photos will be great here, Joel...

 

We can sort out any misinformation on this forum fairly easily.

Edited by Ray Bell, 25 December 2013 - 19:06.

[mouserat159]

Thank you "275 GTB-4 and Ray, I post them here soon, hopefully tomorrow

[fredeuce]

The subject matter of this thread is somewhat open so rather than focusing on pure racing incidents and spectacles I will relate an experience I had when I was there in 1976 . I have been there 4 times in all ;'73 ,75,76 &77 when the cars did resemble a car you could buy and had a proprietry engine and the battles that took place were not just at the front of the field but also down the ranks among the other slower classes.

 

It was I believe the Sunday evening post race. There was to be a talk given by Colin Bond about something to do with racing and this was to take place at the NSW Police Boys Club in Bathurst. We decided that Bondy was a decent bloke and worth listening to so we would go along and have a listen. Problem. Where on earth is the Police Boys Club? We all figured that as it was affiliated with the Police then logic dictates it was going to be close to the Police Station. So we drive down into Bathurst from our camp up in Reid Park. We drive around a bit and then managed to find the sign for the Police station. We then had to find a car park as Bathurst was very busy at this time . We eventually find one a street or two away and walk back to the Police Station.  As we approached the station we could see quite a lengthy line up out the front . Having observed this we now contented ourselves that we had found the place and stroll up to join the que of around 40 people stretching out to the street . We get there an then ask some of the folk in front of us "Is this where the Police Boys Club is?"  Thinking we had all been good detectives and found our objective we were all ancitpating confirmation of what we believed. Then comes the reply, "Nah mate we've all been arrested and we're waitin' to  be booked by the coppers" . Great!! We were out of there quick smart . Eventually we found the place and stepped in, albeit somewhat late.

[mouserat159]

The following  photos are from 1972 Bathurst 500  taken from slides, that I ran thought the digital slide scanner. I hope the quality of them will be good enough to be worthy of being up on the forums.

 

Mouserat 159

 

 

[mouserat159]

 

[mouserat159]

 

[mouserat159]

 

 

 

 

[mouserat159]

This is Fred Gibson's roll over on the top of the mountain

 

 

 

[

 

/URL]

 

[URL=http://img827.imageshack.us/i/gim7.jpg/]

Edited by mouserat159, 27 December 2013 - 05:32.

[mouserat159]

 

 

 

 

Peter Brock on his victory lap of honour

 

[mouserat159]

 

 

 

 

[mouserat159]

[Ray Bell]

Good stuff there, Joel...

 

But you've got a bunch of them back to front.

[Lee Nicolle]

The subject matter of this thread is somewhat open so rather than focusing on pure racing incidents and spectacles I will relate an experience I had when I was there in 1976 . I have been there 4 times in all ;'73 ,75,76 &77 when the cars did resemble a car you could buy and had a proprietry engine and the battles that took place were not just at the front of the field but also down the ranks among the other slower classes.
 
It was I believe the Sunday evening post race. There was to be a talk given by Colin Bond about something to do with racing and this was to take place at the NSW Police Boys Club in Bathurst. We decided that Bondy was a decent bloke and worth listening to so we would go along and have a listen. Problem. Where on earth is the Police Boys Club? We all figured that as it was affiliated with the Police then logic dictates it was going to be close to the Police Station. So we drive down into Bathurst from our camp up in Reid Park. We drive around a bit and then managed to find the sign for the Police station. We then had to find a car park as Bathurst was very busy at this time . We eventually find one a street or two away and walk back to the Police Station.  As we approached the station we could see quite a lengthy line up out the front . Having observed this we now contented ourselves that we had found the place and stroll up to join the que of around 40 people stretching out to the street . We get there an then ask some of the folk in front of us "Is this where the Police Boys Club is?"  Thinking we had all been good detectives and found our objective we were all ancitpating confirmation of what we believed. Then comes the reply, "Nah mate we've all been arrested and we're waitin' to  be booked by the coppers" . Great!! We were out of there quick smart . Eventually we found the place and stepped in, albeit somewhat late.





But don't you realise in these times we must have racing where everyone is the same. And every player must win a prize. Or they will not be PC!
V8 Stupidcars has just got that stupid,, and oh so expensive that it must be good. Our masters tell us so.
We should only expect half a field of cars, planned slow downs so the also rans can catch up and if the Cof C and staff don't like you you can be relegated back in the field. Motorsport? Naah I don't think so.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 27 December 2013 - 20:45.

[GMACKIE]

Good point, Lee....Motor Racing 'died' [for me, that is] when the dreaded "Safety Car" was introduced into this country. They are up there with rabbits and cane toads !

[Dale Harvey]

Good point, Lee....Motor Racing 'died' [for me, that is] when the dreaded "Safety Car" was introduced into this country. They are up there with rabbits and cane toads !

Yes, I agree.

 

Dale.

[GMACKIE]

Murray's Corner, Easter,1963.......front trailing arms 'flexing' to the limit.

 

Pretty sure Bill Forsythe took this photo.

 

[Lee Nicolle]

Good point, Lee....Motor Racing 'died' [for me, that is] when the dreaded "Safety Car" was introduced into this country. They are up there with rabbits and cane toads !

About 1 time in 6 there maybe a reason for a safety car. The rest is a waved yellow,, at least usually. Though at Bathurst a couple of years ago they called a safety car for a broken down car, off the track that had been there for at least half an hour. With about 30 min to go!
Have you noticed that the lesser mortals can still race [with yellows] in the same situation at the same meeting that the Thupercar gods cannot! Schenken is not a race director but a choreographer!

[cooper997]

A couple of my snaps from the first weekend of October 1993 Bathurst Tooheys 1000 - an era when cigarette money was being handed out for mobile billboards.

 

Frank Gardner's 2.5 litre BMW M3's during preparation for the event. Lead car being the Longhurst / Soper car with the Blanchard / Allam behind.

 

 

Printing presses got busy once the grid was known for the Castrol grid card handed out soon after.

 

 

Glenn Seton Racing Falcon EB pit stop and driver changeover. As can be seen quite a lot's going on. Seton helps AJ in, Allan Grice commentates for Channel 7 during the live coverage.

The GSR crew member, leaning forward in the sunnies is Paul, who has a engineering business in Melbourne these days. He helped build the Sierras and Falcons with GSR. Fabricating the cages and the like, His corner was RH front wheel and brake during race pitstops. He told me he had finished when I snapped this and was checking the driver changeover went smoothly. Seton and Jones being somewhat different in their physique..

 

 

Stephen

 

 

[ellrosso]

I grew up watch the Newsreel clips from about 1965 - 67, mainly showing the crashes, screeching tyre sound effects etc, etc. I don't think I've ever missed watching the telecast from when it became the regular thing but I didn't get to actually go there till 1997.

I was shooting on the Linhof 6x17cm Panorama camera at the time (as well as 35mm of course) so that posed its own set of issues, but I absolutely loved it. Having a photographers pass was an added plus, especially in practice as you could get to different areas on the inside of the track, and what a track in the flesh! So quick and unforgiving.

Really happy for Larry and Ingall to win that year. Very interesting on the grid before the start. Brock was surrounded by people (his final Bathurst at the time - big deal of course) whereas Larry surrounded himself with his family so nobody could get close. Jack and his sister were practically jumping out of their skins with excitement - so

enthusiastic. Great event.