13 replies to this topic

[kayemod]

It's been fairly widely reported that one thing that Lewis Hamilton is asking for in any new McLaren contract, is the right to keep any trophies he wins. This of course would be a quite radical departure from the Company's long-established policy. I don't know when this started, presumably when Ron Dennis took over at the ailing McLaren, but apparently the line toed by the likes of Prost, Senna, Watson, Rosberg and all the others isn't good enough for young Lewis, though many would say that he has some way to go before he matches the stature of some of the names I mentioned. After his inconsistency, and the problems that he's caused the team over the time he's driven for them, I'd be amazed if Ron is prepared to concede on this, and it strikes me that Hamilton's general bargaining position is becoming weaker the longer both parties delay agreement, his options are few and diminishing. What I've been wondering is how long McLaren have had this policy, does it date from Ron's accession as I've guessed, but more importantly, do any other teams enforce the same thing, and were there any others in the past? I know that Frank Williams has often said that he values the constructors' title and trophies far more than the WDC, so he probably wouldn't be too interested in drivers' pots, but do all the other constructors feel the same, what has been the position of Ferrari for example?

To back this up, just think about what ensued after Alain Prost dropped his Monza trophy into the crowd all those years ago, by all accounts, it took Ron quite a while to get over that, he was rather cross to put it mildly, it meant a great deal to him. Nigel Roebuck's account of this in the current issue of Motor Sport is somewhat at odds with the version given by Joe Ramirez in his book Memoirs of a Racing Man, and we'll probably never really know the details, unless of course Ron decides to pen his memoirs. Now that would be a book worth reading...

[Vitesse2]

... unless of course Ron decides to pen his memoirs. Now that would be a book worth reading...

... but in need of a good editor

(Sorry - couldn't resist. Carry on ...)

[kayemod]

... but in need of a good editor

(Sorry - couldn't resist. Carry on ...)

I'd like to recommend Donald Rumsfeld for the job.

"There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know, we don't know."

But seriously, Ive long admired Ron Dennis as much as almost anyone else in racing. An easy figure to make fun of given his prolixity and somewhat tortured loquacity, but not many have achieved as much as he has, and he's not finished yet. I'd say that the current state, good or bad depending on your point of view of course, of F1 owes almost as much to Ron as it does to Bernie, he almost invented current standards of presentation.

But back to my original question, McLaren's trophy policy, your thoughts please.

[BRG]

But back to my original question, McLaren's trophy policy, your thoughts please.

My thoughts are that it is of little real importance and is only serving to allow you a chance to have a go at Hamilton?

[Bauble]

I have no ideas on the matter, but I wonder if there is any rule/law/ precedent that decides the ownership of trophies? Programmes usually say the winner will receive .........., but who is the winner car (entrant) or driver?
I know that many drivers have trophy cabinets, so it is probably all included in contracts these days, and obviously McLaren like to keep them for themselves, which seems fair enough as it is the team that wins the race not just the driver.

As to Hamilton wanting to keep those he wins - it fits with his image!

My own personal trophy cabinet (a dresser draw full of socks) holds the two medals I garnered during my career as one of Britains bottom cyclists. (as opposed to top, to avoid unseemly remarks.)

[midgrid]

I don't understand why it should be a problem for Hamilton anyway, as the drivers are routinely given exact replicas of the trophies they hand over to the team.

[Eaglenindy]

I, being a Yank don't understand this. At the podium ceremonies, the WINNING DRIVER gets a trophy/cup/sculpture/ungodly ugly piece of "art" and the WINNING TEAM also gets a (what appears to be a like) trophy/cup/sculpture/ungodly ugly piece of "art". Why does the team want both? It to me sounds like greed on McLaren's part. Isn't that the idea of 2 trophies? One for the driver and one for the team? Is Dennis really as big of a ****** as this sounds?

[thirtytwo]

I don't understand why it should be a problem for Hamilton anyway, as the drivers are routinely given exact replicas of the trophies they hand over to the team.

A replica worth a fraction of the real thing on the open market would be a start.

[Bauble]

In'Challenge Me The Race' Mike Hawthorn talks about the problem of storing trophies, concerned about the attraction to burglary, so it sounded as if he kept his pots.

[Catalina Park]

The current crop of drivers get how many trophies a year? Half a dozen?
The Golden Boy might have earned 4 or 6 trophies on a good weekend.
You can probably see why Lewis is complaining.

All my trophies are in a box in a cupboard. Damn ugly things that take up too much space. Maybe I should ship them off to Lewis for safe keeping.

[king_crud]

Didn't Alan Jones sell his off a few years when strapped for cash? So Frank must have let him keep them

[Gregor Marshall]

My thoughts are that it is of little real importance and is only serving to allow you a chance to have a go at Hamilton?

Agreed, am not especially a Lewis fan but if that's what he wants then fair enough - the drivers in other teams get to keep theirs.
I suppose I'm lucky to have many of my own trophies from football (blasphemy I know!!), but I also have just under 400 motor racing trophies of my late fathers but then from my records of my father's racing there should be just over a 1,000 trophies but he let car owners keep, gave them away, ex-wives have some.
I also donated a 1930s BRDC trophy (to the BRDC) four years ago that my father had bought and I've never seen it agian as the BRDC won' let me - thanks!!
Lewis is lucky to be in a position to display his trophies for friends, family, etc to look at; I have 400ish trophies of significant interest that are stuck in boxes that no-one will ever see, so fair play to Lewis.

[bradbury west]

I cannot really abide such posturing as LH is reputed to be displaying over the trophies. Imagine if it was a deal breaker, and he walked away because Ron would not accede. Anyway, he who pays the piper calls the tune, as the drivers were forcibly reminded by the team owners when they had their little lock-in in ZA in the early 80s. Think also of Rosberg's reported comments, by NSR IIRC, over their obligation to race on the las Vegas?? car park's broken up but hastily resurfaced track, again in the 80s. Perhaps the world has changed since then and tails now wag dogs, but ingratitude is always an undesirable trait. Not for nothing was RD called Uncle Ron.
Roger Lund

edit.
ISTR a piece/comment in Autosport years ago about Prost' McLaren contract running to something like 32 pages with all aspects covered in detail, so these things are nothing new. But then, these drivers are not Jim Clark or Stirling Moss.
RL

Edited by bradbury west, 31 August 2012 - 13:50.

[kayemod]

I've been to Maranello, but I've never paid a visit to the home of Ferrari, but anyone know their attitude to trophies, they must have accumulated many hundreds over the years. Enzo was famously unsentimental regarding pensioned-off race cars, but do they have a massive display of silverware like McLaren do, and who gets to keep what?