121 replies to this topic

[BernieEc]

First of all to all F1 fans, I know you will notice the omission of Eau rouge. Though it is one of the most famous corners but looking over the weekends grand prix in Belgium i don't think it is that challenging as even the Marussias were taking it flat out. I do apologise for those that feel their favoured corners have been left out.

These corners are from my perrspective and represents my favourite corners. I have limited it to the current calendar. Although Turn 8 in Turkey was to good to be left off the list and I still hope one day it will return. You will also notice that Spa (Belgium) has 2 corners included. I don't think there was anything to pick from both and felt I would have done an injustice by not selecting them.

finally...the way my selection was made for the list of options was based on the them being fast sweeping corners that some cars can take flat out and usually represents a significant gain in lap time. I have not included any medium to low speed corners, so none of the the Monaco hairpins or corners are included here. Some will argue the wall of champions is not really a high speed corner....but this is taken flat out by most cars so i beg to differ. The list is not comprehensive but I wanted to limit the option to just 10, if not my lovely "Copse" would have made the list as well.

for the record....my favourite is Turn 8 Turkey hence why I had to bring it back on the list.

Edited by BernieEc, 04 September 2012 - 12:24.

[JRizzle86]

My only basis in comparing the corners playing F1 games. So i have no idea the G loading or actual surface condition or lets be honest little or nothing to how a real Formula One car behaves on any of these corners.

My only view being that due to the high down force the cars now carry through most corners like Eau Rouge or 130R are a lot more straight forward than they used to be. Excess run-off, barriers moved back and changed corner profiles have made this easier over the years too.

The one corner which still catches me out is turn 8 at Istanbul. To hook up all four apexes perfectly is a challenge higher than hooking up just one. It is a pity we don't race there any more.

[wingwalker]

After spending far too many hours mastering F1 Challenge and Rfactor: T9/10 at Bahrain. Combination of track going downhill and applying heavy trail braking makes it so easy to spin or at least lock up there.

As for the list 130R and Blanchimont shouldn't be on it IMO, both are easily flat out since years (and 130R was made easier around 2004). Merghulo at Interlagos isn't much of a challenge either - Ferradura (t6) and the next one are far, far harder to get right and so is T1.

[Rob]

Turn 10 at Bahrain is quite tricky because of the short downhill braking zone that is preceded by a quick left hander.

[thuGG]

Turn 1 is especially challenging for Grosjean;)

But seriously, I voted for Montreal's Wall of Champions. You have drive this chicane with maximum speed and agression but there is very small margin for mistake, so you have to get it right.

[F1ultimate]

Corner 8(Degner Curve) is tricky.

It's a 35-ish degree bend which you approach with high speed. If you get nervous and brake you'll get massive under street and fly straight into the gravel trap. Best approach is to slightly lift before the bend for some understeer, make a sharp turn to the right and floor the accelerator with commitment

[pingu666]

that stupid chicaney thing at singapour

[BernieEc]

that stupid chicaney thing at singapour

I think that will rate as a terrible corner as a lot of drivers most notably Hamilton complained about it.

[Trust]

Pouhon.

Edited by Trust, 04 September 2012 - 13:07.

[Brandz07]

The only one that isn't used anymore... -.- Turn 8 Istanbul.

[BernieEc]

has there ever been a year in which the wall of champions did not claim anyone........I think this year Maldonando was a victim...come to think of considering a lot of corners it seems Maldonando was a victim on most....

[Tardis40]

I would have went with the Lesmos from Monza instead of Parabolica

[GSiebert]

The only one that isn't used anymore... -.- Turn 8 Istanbul.

Its flat out, how can it be challenging ? And even if you get it wrong, there are 5km of run-offs.
I think the swimming pool chicane at Monaco is one of the few challenging turns remaining in F1, its fast, you can gain time if you get it right, but its the end of the race if you get it wrong.

Edited by GSiebert, 04 September 2012 - 14:37.

[Murdoch]

Pouhon.

I think I would of agreed if they hadn't replaced the gravel trap with tarmac

[BernieEc]

I would have went with the Lesmos from Monza instead of Parabolica

I thought about it and I must admit a bit of the popularity of parabolica made me slightly biased on that. Also after going at full throttle for most of the lap...I think the placement of parabolica is ideal for a perfect ending to a speedy lap.

[joshb]

I'd say the Degner corners are more challenging than those on the loist. Very high speed entry, no space for error and only a very narrow track at that point, it really is eye of the needle, only at 150mph.

On the list I voted for Canada, purely because, again, there's no room for error. Turn 8 at Istanbul is a wonderful corner but you can get it wrong and not lose much. In Montreal, you get it wrong in the middle of the corner, you're in the wall in a heartbeat.

[John Player]

Campsa and Degner.

[Kingshark]

Its flat out, how can it be challenging ? And even if you get it wrong, there are 5km of run-offs.
I think the Piscine chicane at Monaco is one of the few challenging turns remaining in F1, its fast, you can gain time if you get it right, but its the end of the race if you get it wrong.

Are you serious? Many drivers couldn't even hold their head up during turn 8, hence calling it the four apex monster; and most circuits have large run-off areas nowadays but that doesn't take anything away from the corners themselves.

[BernieEc]

Are you serious? Many drivers couldn't even hold their head up during turn 8, hence calling it the four apex monster; and most circuits have large run-off areas nowadays but that doesn't take anything away from the corners themselves.

I think only the Bulls took it flat out in 2010.........most others lifted off

[Collective]

Per my videogame experience, it has to be that stupid chicane in Barcelona.

[Taxi]

from my experience on F1 2010/2011 there are some corners that i always mess and that are pretty hard to do without invalidate/lose a lot of time my laps:

1: Eau Rouge.
2: turn 6 At the Nurburgring
3: Turn 8 at istambul Park
4: the "S" and the the corner just before the end of sector one of Suzuka
5: Pouhon
6: The Hill at Monaco
7: Barcelona Campsa
8: Beckets
9: Padock entry Hokenheim.

[Taxi]

Per my videogame experience, it has to be that stupid chicane in Barcelona.

Stupid Chicane. Always crash there.

[Seanspeed]

Turn 10 at Bahrain is quite tricky because of the short downhill braking zone that is preceded by a quick left hander.

That'd definitely be on my top 5 most difficult corners on the calendar. A real pain.

As far as exciting corners that are also challenging, I'd say Wall of Champions chicane is up there and so would Degner curves at Suzuka.

[korzeniow]

Voted Turkey's Turn 8

There should be also China's first corner on the list. It's rather unusal breaking zone and very challenging to get it right braking from over 300 km/h

[sailor]

ed here. Some will argue the wall of champions is not really a high speed corner....but this is taken flat out by most cars so i beg to differ. The lis ..

Really?
Only if you consider the chicane as 2 corners and the second can be classed as full throttle exit after a heavy braking first corner.

[Brandz07]

Its flat out, how can it be challenging ? And even if you get it wrong, there are 5km of run-offs.
I think the swimming pool chicane at Monaco is one of the few challenging turns remaining in F1, its fast, you can gain time if you get it right, but its the end of the race if you get it wrong.

Eau Rouge is flat out? Is that not challenging? And besides, turn 8 is very rarely flat out!

[Zoetrope]

No matter what the result of the poll is, thinking all this corners through I realized how beautiful sport F1 is

[hotstickyslick]

Why are there only fast corners to choose from?

Blanchimont is on the list? And the 130R?

Edited by hotstickyslick, 04 September 2012 - 15:00.

[Baddoer]

Spoon. Downhill, off-camber, blind and double apex.

[Taxi]

Where can we see all the circuits with the names of the corners?

[GSiebert]

Eau Rouge is flat out? Is that not challenging?

Well ... no. Its impressive, but not challenging. The driver cannot make any difference in Eau Rouge.

Edited by GSiebert, 04 September 2012 - 15:16.

[BernieEc]

Where can we see all the circuits with the names of the corners?

try Wiki......

[BernieEc]

Well ... no. Its impressive, but not challenging. The driver cannot make any difference in Eau Rouge.

unless you want to pull of an overtake on someone like Maldonado.......then i will say your daring the Gods!!!

Edited by BernieEc, 04 September 2012 - 15:21.

[Taxi]

Well ... no. Its impressive, but not challenging. The driver cannot make any difference in Eau Rouge.

Erm... Kimi Raikkonen 2012.

[Tenmantaylor]

The poll results are pretty good. I chose Pouhon as even in modern F1 it only has 1 line and still can't be taken flat. It's like Eau Rouge used to be. Turn 8 is challenging and frustrating but Pouhon is more exciting.


Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka’s 130R
Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps Blanchimont

These two shouldn't even be in the poll, havn't been any kind of challenge in an F1 car for years.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 04 September 2012 - 16:55.

[Craven Morehead]

The driver cannot make any difference in Eau Rouge.

[Tenmantaylor]

He's right. Maybe on the first lap they tip toe a little after that its just picking a line with the foot to the floor. Unless you were referring to Massa?

[JRizzle86]

Its flat out, how can it be challenging ? And even if you get it wrong, there are 5km of run-offs.
I think the swimming pool chicane at Monaco is one of the few challenging turns remaining in F1, its fast, you can gain time if you get it right, but its the end of the race if you get it wrong.

First of all, i don't think it is flat in all the cars, especially with high fuel. Secondly and i quote, "The fast and long turn has been nicknamed "Diabolica", a play on Curva Parabolica at Monza. It is a quadruple apex corner with a load of 5g (5 times the acceleration of gravity) for 4 seconds". Unlike any other corner in F1.

[TFLB]

One I always find ridiculously difficult in computer games in Pinheirinho at Interlagos. Very hard to get the speed right.

[Bloggsworth]

Paddock Hill in the turbo era - 215MPH blind approach to a bend that suddenly appears to be way off down to the right...

[SCUDmissile]

Stupid Chicane. Always crash there.

don't worry. i think that is a bug.

Being a Suzuka/Interlagos fanboy, i have to say 130R (mainly because i can never get the apex and always go on the runoff on all the games of it.)
but really Degner is probably the most difficult corner on the calendar.

And Anthony Noghes in Monaco is a b*****d.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 04 September 2012 - 16:46.

[ArkZ]

Parabolica ,Pouhon also Variante Ascari is a nice challenge.

[Skinnyguy]

Suzuka 1-2. Always looks you coasted too slow into it when you passed it, and next time, once you push a bit more in the entry a little bit, you´re off.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 04 September 2012 - 16:26.

[Seanspeed]

Spoon. Downhill, off-camber, blind and double apex.

This one gets me a lot, I've gotta admit.

[Lights]

"Most challenging from an F1 drivers perspective"
"Calling for full use of one's abilities or resources in a difficult but stimulating effort"

Well that sounds about right.

The OP starts of well by omitting Eau Rouge, then sadly includes corners such as 130R, Mergulho, Maggots/Becketts and Blanchimont. While some of these might be the most spectacular, or show the strength of an F1 car, they're not really challenging for an F1 driver to get right.

Also, I'm not sure what types of games people in this thread play and how they do so (with a keyboard/gamepad, I can imagine you get a different look at this), but a lot of the corners I've read here (eg. 130R) won't really trouble F1 drivers.

My theory of what challenges an F1 driver the most is a high-speed approach followed by a rapid decrease in speed due to braking, partially at the turn-in point, aiming for an apex with no room for error, favorably including elevation and poor visibility (blind apex/exit), that will cost you a lot if you screw it up. The four corners that check these boxes the most are Pouhon in Spa, Degner in Suzuka, Parabolica in Monza and Turn 10 in Bahrain. Pouhon especially because of the incredibly high speed turn-in speed. Degner because of poor visibility and the tricky curbstones, Parabolica because of the high speed entrance, and mostly the fact that it has a continuously wide exit on the outside, meaning you're centimeters away from the grass for several seconds while on the limit of your car. Turn 10 in Bahrain because the decelerating takes place in phases, and the moment of turn-in/braking is incredibly hard to judge, and the apex easy to miss, although the consequences of getting it wrong are less due to the speed. But these 4 are the hardest to perfectly execute.

Other challenging corners, some that I haven't really seen here yet, might be Turn 1 and Turn 11 in Melbourne, Turns 7, 11 and 14 in Sepang, Turn 11 in Bahrain (opposite of Turn 10 really), Tabac in Monaco, Turn 8 in Montreal, Copse at Silverstone, Turn 1 at Hockenheim (tricky to get right, but with all that asphalt..., doubtful entry), Turn 4 at Hungaroring, Ascari at Monza, Dunlop and Spoon at Suzuka, Turns 9 and 11 at Korea, Turn 6 at India and the Senna S and Laranjinha at Interlagos. For the rest it's not worth a mention. I only covered tracks of the current calender btw.

[beeclown]

"Most challenging from an F1 drivers perspective"
"Calling for full use of one's abilities or resources in a difficult but stimulating effort"

Well that sounds about right.

The OP starts of well by omitting Eau Rouge, then sadly includes corners such as 130R, Mergulho, Maggots/Becketts and Blanchimont. While some of these might be the most spectacular, or show the strength of an F1 car, they're not really challenging for an F1 driver to get right.

Also, I'm not sure what types of games people in this thread play and how they do so (with a keyboard/gamepad, I can imagine you get a different look at this), but a lot of the corners I've read here (eg. 130R) won't really trouble F1 drivers.

My theory of what challenges an F1 driver the most is a high-speed approach followed by a rapid decrease in speed due to braking, partially at the turn-in point, aiming for an apex with no room for error, favorably including elevation and poor visibility (blind apex/exit), that will cost you a lot if you screw it up. The four corners that check these boxes the most are Pouhon in Spa, Degner in Suzuka, Parabolica in Monza and Turn 10 in Bahrain. Pouhon especially because of the incredibly high speed turn-in speed. Degner because of poor visibility and the tricky curbstones, Parabolica because of the high speed entrance, and mostly the fact that it has a continuously wide exit on the outside, meaning you're centimeters away from the grass for several seconds while on the limit of your car. Turn 10 in Bahrain because the decelerating takes place in phases, and the moment of turn-in/braking is incredibly hard to judge, and the apex easy to miss, although the consequences of getting it wrong are less due to the speed. But these 4 are the hardest to perfectly execute.

Other challenging corners, some that I haven't really seen here yet, might be Turn 1 and Turn 11 in Melbourne, Turns 7, 11 and 14 in Sepang, Turn 11 in Bahrain (opposite of Turn 10 really), Tabac in Monaco, Turn 8 in Montreal, Copse at Silverstone, Turn 1 at Hockenheim (tricky to get right, but with all that asphalt..., doubtful entry), Turn 4 at Hungaroring, Ascari at Monza, Dunlop and Spoon at Suzuka, Turns 9 and 11 at Korea, Turn 6 at India and the Senna S and Laranjinha at Interlagos. For the rest it's not worth a mention. I only covered tracks of the current calender btw.

Good post.

Alonso mentioned earlier this year that turn 14 at Sepang was the hardest corner to do well in F1. You've just come off the super fast 12/13 sweepers so it's hard to be precise on entry, the corner tightens and narrows to the apex, and there's the long back straight to punish anyone who doesn't get a good exit.

[Craven Morehead]

He's right. Maybe on the first lap they tip toe a little after that its just picking a line with the foot to the floor. Unless you were referring to Massa?

No he's dead wrong. There's not a corner on any racetrack in the world where the driver doesn't make the difference. The car doesn't know where the turn-in point is, nor the apex, nor the exit. The car doesn't balance itself on the limit of adhesion. The driver does all this. To suggest that the driver makes no difference in a corner like Eau Rouge is rediculous beyond the point of absurdity.

[Tenmantaylor]

No, you're being pedantic beyond the point of absurdity. If no braking or lifting is required the majority of the challenge of a corner is gone. Simple as that. A challenging corner requires the perfect combination of lifting, braking, turn-in timing, throttle feathering, balance finding, throttle reapplication and all in perfect synchronicity with the steering inputs. Eau Rouge requires non of these. You can take three completely different lines into it and barely lose time. Pouhon is many times more challenging than Eau Rouge in a modern F1 car and rewards the drivers who can overcome this multifaceted challenge rather than the base skill required of just picking a line.

[Lights]

Good post.

Alonso mentioned earlier this year that turn 14 at Sepang was the hardest corner to do well in F1. You've just come off the super fast 12/13 sweepers so it's hard to be precise on entry, the corner tightens and narrows to the apex, and there's the long back straight to punish anyone who doesn't get a good exit.

Yeah I agree, while making my post it was difficult to really decide a few that really stood out for me. Turn 14 at Sepang is definitely in my top 20, else I wouldn't have mentioned it, but most likely it would appear in my top 10 as well. Alonso saying that would probably influence me as well, I think he knows a bit more about this stuff than me...

[Currahee]

Spoon. Also a special mention for the S bends at the start.