30 replies to this topic

[908T]

What all can FIA control remotely?

Naturally at least the oncar-cameras and the activation of the DRS button, possibility for the driver to use the DRS.
But what else, if anything?

[GrosjeanFTW]

The "blow up Jensons engine" button, is a well known one.

[TheWilliamzer]

The "Unleash Pastor" knob in Charlie's dashboard.

[GrosjeanFTW]

The "Unleash Pastor" knob in Charlie's dashboard.

You win.

[Dolph]

The "blow up Jensons engine" button, is a well known one.

You mean the Button button?

[Dolph]

I've heared the knob for first lap crash was set to Grosjean in Australia and it broke off. They've been trying to fix it ever since but finally had to have Grosjean miss a race to just disconnect it.

[908T]

Well, nice jokes, but does somebody know what is actually possible to control remotely?

Earlier the teams could and did adjust just about everything via radio. Now they are not allowed to.
They can only monitor.

But the FIA is remotely controlling at least some things that are coupled to the cars electrical system, as we can see.

Might be nice to know what all?

[mgs315]

I'd guess the FIA can't actively control anything. The camera feeds are all beamed to FOM, the DRS activation light on screen, like the eligibility is worked out via telemetry and are adhered to in order to avoid penalties. I'm sure the systems behind them are controlled by the teams and are merely monitored though?

The idea of the governing body having active control over the cars sounds dodgy.

[pingu666]

the tv cameras might have some controls, but that's probably switching camera position

[908T]

I'd guess the FIA can't actively control anything. The camera feeds are all beamed to FOM, the DRS activation light on screen, like the eligibility is worked out via telemetry and are adhered to in order to avoid penalties. I'm sure the systems behind them are controlled by the teams and are merely monitored though?

The idea of the governing body having active control over the cars sounds dodgy.

They can actively control some things.

Like the radio controlled system actively makes it impossible for the driver to open the wing no matter if the driver presses the button.

So it would be nice to know what all really is possible since some things coupled to the cars electrical system clearly are remotely controllable.

And I do not necessarily mean that the FIA or FOM might be actively blowing up some carefully chosen Renault alternators by overloading the electrical system......

Edited by 908T, 10 September 2012 - 07:18.

[pingu666]

the warning lights would be sent to the car, blue flag one for example

[Buttoneer]

Well, nice jokes, but does somebody know what is actually possible to control remotely?

Earlier the teams could and did adjust just about everything via radio. Now they are not allowed to.
They can only monitor.

But the FIA is remotely controlling at least some things that are coupled to the cars electrical system, as we can see.

Might be nice to know what all?

I'll leave the thread open in case someone does chip in with knowledge but if not the jokes are great anyway and a lovely change from the bun fights. However, you may want to ask in the technical forum where you're more likely to find posters who might know.

[GSiebert]

Do they really remotely disable/enable DRS on the cars or just signal the drivers DRS is forbidden on their dashboard ?

Edited by GSiebert, 10 September 2012 - 08:51.

[908T]

Do they really remotely disable/enable DRS on the cars or just signal the drivers DRS is forbidden on their dashboard ?

As I have understood: Yes, they do remotely enable/disable the possibility to use the DRS.

Hopefully they are NOT disabling other things "because it is good for the sport", like certain alternators...

[Slowinfastout]

Dude, how the DRS concept functions is an interesting topic.. too bad you were just masquerading it to build your ******** house of cards..

[TheWilliamzer]

All I know is that DRS zones are the only thing that externally influence a component in the car, maybe radio as well. Everything else is limited by ECU, and I think there's a rule that forbids uploading data to the car in the race... I just think.

[learningtobelost]

Hopefully they are NOT disabling other things "because it is good for the sport", like certain alternators...

[908T]

Or maybe not a conspiracy!

But it would still be nice to know what all is possible to do with the existing remote control system.

And all this without somebody starting to cry "CONSPIRACY"!

[gm914]

RD: "...and this one activates the 'Automatic-Pout'. It's worth 8 tenths!"

[Slowinfastout]

Or maybe not a conspiracy!

But it would still be nice to know what all is possible to do with the existing remote control system.

And all this without somebody starting to cry "CONSPIRACY"!

I think you're full of it, but I'll bite anyway...

There is no radio control in the sense you make it.

With DRS, the way it works is the cars pass next to a timing device similar to what is at the start/finish line. If the system is enabled, then this will send an 'OK' signal to the car if it's within a 1 second interval of the previous car.

This signal goes to the control ECU and that basically determines if the driver is able to activate the DRS or not.

This doesn't interact with the car more than the timing or flag information all the drivers receive on their steering wheel, it's very similar in fact.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 10 September 2012 - 16:08.

[Gilles12]

I think you're full of it, but I'll bite anyway...

There is no radio control in the sense you make it.

With DRS, the way it works is the cars pass next to a timing device similar to what is at the start/finish line. If the system is enabled, then this will send an 'OK' signal to the car if it's within a 1 second interval of the previous car.

This signal goes to the control ECU and that basically determines if the driver is able to activate the DRS or not.

Yep

Just had a scout in the tech regulations

The ECU determines the DRS activation point (within 1s) and the driver activates it

The ECU is...

8.2.2 All control sensors, actuators and FIA monitoring sensors will be specified and homologated by
the FIA. Details of the homologation process may be found in the Appendix to these
regulations.

There is no positive input or remote control

But there is overly compromising the design of your alternator in the interests of performance

[908T]

There is no positive input or remote control

What do You mean by that?
There is lots of remote control as also You surely know.
Most people interested in F1 know that there are at least the FOM remotely actuated and controlled cameras and the FIA remotely actuated and controlled DRS.

Then what else there is, I do not know. I hope the teams do!!

[Slowinfastout]

... the FIA remotely actuated and controlled DRS.

I knew you were full of it.

carry on..

[908T]

I knew you were full of it.

carry on..

I did not understand that You have a big problem with the fact that FIA can remotely make the DRS-button active and that FOM can remotely control the onboard cameras.

[Slowinfastout]

Like I told you, it's no different from the car receiving timing information that is then displayed on the steering wheel.

But it's not about that, is it? The purpose of this thread is to somehow imply that the FIA is remotely blowing up alternators and ZOMG! lord knows what else..

Have fun.

[encircled]

Probably not the one you are looking for but this is a remote controlled 2009 F1 car.

http://www.youtube.c...2H9yof_c#t=126s

Edited by encircled, 10 September 2012 - 19:32.

[swerved]

RD: "...and this one activates the 'Automatic-Pout'. It's worth 8 tenths!"

You've inadvertently coined a new name for McLarens nose, the pout snout.

Whats next ? The Whinge Wing, The refusor diffusor, the rear plane of pain ?

[wrcva]

All I know is that DRS zones are the only thing that externally influence a component in the car, maybe radio as well. Everything else is limited by ECU, and I think there's a rule that forbids uploading data to the car in the race... I just think.

I think you are right. IIRC, in late 80s they came up with two-way telemetry systems that you could pretty much change everything real-time (including mapping) in addition to one way sensor readouts, but later they banned two-way systems I don't recall why - maybe costs and Charlie being a control freak:p .

Two way telemetry (telemetry and telecommand) is possible and was originally developed by TAG Electronics. This system started as a way to send a message to the driver to a system allowing the race engineers to update the car in real time, for example, changing engine mapping. However, the FIA banned two-way telemetry from F1 in 2003. F1 teams take a huge quantity of computer equipment to each race to help the drivers and engineers to find the right set-up and cure any car problems.

An F1 car can use two types of telemetry:
- real time information, which is sent in small packets (track position and basic sensor readings)
- a microwave burst, which is sent as the car passes the pits.

This data burst can contain around 4 MB of information giving the engineers a vital insight into the state of the car. The telemetry is transmitted by a small aerial located on the car. This is usually located on the sidepod or wing mirror nearest to the pits. A further 40 MB (or thereabouts) can be downloaded from the car by plugging in a laptop. The socket usually located in the sidepod or near the fuel filler. link

This stuff is also related to black boxes. There was a pretty detailed discussion about that in Senna Files

[scheivlak]

I don't recall why - maybe costs and Charlie being a control freak:p .

Costs were indeed the main reason. The decision followed a meeting between the FIA and the teams on January 15, 2003 and was applauded by Eddie Jordan and Paul Stoddart in particular. The top teams were less enthousiastic. The cost-saving package at that moment also included the current parc ferme rules, a future ban on traction control, a ban on spare cars and -at that moment- a proposal to ban pit-to-car radio and the implementation of standard rear wings and brakes in 2004 http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/9255/

[techspeed]

Oh, awfully sorry, I did not know that this FIA/FOM remotely controlling something was a sensitive issue to You.
Hopefully it has nothing to do with Your job or anything.

It's not a sensitive issue for anyone here, it's just that others are pointing out to you that the FIA has no control over the cars, but you keep on insisting they do. This is just frustrating.

The FIA has no remote control over the cameras, they just run all race continuously sending pictures back to the FOM broadcasting unit. The lens cleaning operates on a timer to clean the lens. Other series such as nascar and indycars have remote control cameras to rotate them, but those are self contained systems with no connection to the cars electronics at all.

The DRS system works by picking up the signals from the transponders fitted to the cars for lap timing. These are just a simple box that emits a number as a radio signal when it passes the timing sensors. When the sensor at the DRS activation line senses the following car is close enough, it then automatically sends a signal which tells the driver it is okay to activate the DRS, in exactly the same way that when a car is being lapped the sensors automatically send a signal that lights a blue light on the steering wheel. Nothing to do with any control or any human interaction at all, the FIA can't turn the DRS on or off themselves.

But if you still believe the FIA can control systems remotely, then apparently nothing we say is going to change your mind.

[pingu666]

i remmber some sport that had multi car cameras where the cameras where on all the time, but what was broadcast from car would be chosen by a director/camera guy. so if you where looking in cockpit at the driver, you couldnt also be watching from the bumper cam of the same car.