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driverless cars to hit california ( sorry!)


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#1851 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 21:57

Like...never?

 

Well, if you'd like to give me an example. I've never seen or heard of one.



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#1852 gruntguru

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 23:06

 

"Tesla said in a statement that it was deeply saddened by the crash and is co-operating with police. “We understand that speed is being investigated as a factor in this crash, and know that high speed collisions can result in a fire in any type of car, not just electric vehicles,” the company said.

The Tesla’s battery reignited twice on Monday morning at a salvage yard where it was towed, Davie Fire Marshal Robert Taylor said.

 

Tesla said in a statement that it posts language on its website for first responders saying that fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish and that they should consider letting the battery burn while protecting exposures to buildings."

 

Hmm - Interesting, but petrol/diesel cars don't re-ignite over the next 24 hours after they have been removed from the crash site...

 

 

I would be shocked by this news but for the fact that a gasoline fire, in combination with a ruptured fuel tank creates a conflagration many times the intensity of a lithium battery fire.



#1853 BRG

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 19:57

I would be shocked by this news but for the fact that a gasoline fire, in combination with a ruptured fuel tank creates a conflagration many times the intensity of a lithium battery fire.

Really?  Having seen both, I know which I would prefer to tackle.  You can douse a petrol fire in a few moments.  Any trained race marshal will know the technique.  You can't put out a lithium battery fire no matter how much you try.  And it is FAR more intense and hotter than poor old petrol.



#1854 gruntguru

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 22:49

I will take your word on extinguishing although it seems EV battery packs (due to physical packaging style) do not exhibit the explosive characteristics seen in the various videos of laptop batteries etc.

 

As to intensity and temperature, the literature doesn't support your last sentence.

 

eg https://saemobilus-s...nt/2014-01-0428

 

"CONCLUSION

In this study, we conducted fire tests on gasoline vehicles and lithium-ion battery installing vehicles and obtained the following findings.

• Results of tests on vehicles that are run by two different types of battery indicated no explosion of batteries or scattering of battery materials for either type of battery.

• For LIB Vehicle-1, combustion of the battery continued after combustion of the vehicle had ended. However, no large differences in vehicle temperature were observed except inside the passenger area where the battery is installed, so it can be assumed that there are no significant differences in thermal influence around the two types of vehicle.

• Within the range of combustion gas analyzed, the maximum CO concentration measured above the roof was 564 ppm for the gasoline vehicle and 563 ppm for the lithium ion battery installing vehicle. There was thus almost no difference between the two types of vehicle. Furthermore, no HF was detected in either the gasoline vehicle or the lithium-ion battery installing vehicle."

 

As to the risk of a fire starting in the first place, estimates range from this:

"the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement saying that the agency does not believe the Volt or otherelectric vehicles are at a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles"

 

To this:

According to Tesla's data (via CNN Money): . . . gasoline powered cars are about 11 times more likely to catch fire than a Tesla.



#1855 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 23:30

Petrol

 

https://youtu.be/83BinHEbvvQ?t=219

 

Battery

 

https://youtu.be/bZ8IsMRFM5o?t=33

 

I rest my case



#1856 Bloggsworth

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 20:29

I will take your word on extinguishing although it seems EV battery packs (due to physical packaging style) do not exhibit the explosive characteristics seen in the various videos of laptop batteries etc.

 

As to intensity and temperature, the literature doesn't support your last sentence.

 

eg https://saemobilus-s...nt/2014-01-0428

 

"CONCLUSION

In this study, we conducted fire tests on gasoline vehicles and lithium-ion battery installing vehicles and obtained the following findings.

• Results of tests on vehicles that are run by two different types of battery indicated no explosion of batteries or scattering of battery materials for either type of battery.

• For LIB Vehicle-1, combustion of the battery continued after combustion of the vehicle had ended. However, no large differences in vehicle temperature were observed except inside the passenger area where the battery is installed, so it can be assumed that there are no significant differences in thermal influence around the two types of vehicle.

• Within the range of combustion gas analyzed, the maximum CO concentration measured above the roof was 564 ppm for the gasoline vehicle and 563 ppm for the lithium ion battery installing vehicle. There was thus almost no difference between the two types of vehicle. Furthermore, no HF was detected in either the gasoline vehicle or the lithium-ion battery installing vehicle."

 

As to the risk of a fire starting in the first place, estimates range from this:

"the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement saying that the agency does not believe the Volt or otherelectric vehicles are at a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles"

 

To this:

According to Tesla's data (via CNN Money): . . . gasoline powered cars are about 11 times more likely to catch fire than a Tesla.

 

Yes, all very well, but does a petrol fire spontaneously re-ignite 24 hours later, possibly in a closed building with no one there to attempt to re-extinguish it.



#1857 Greg Locock

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 23:28

Hot news. New tech may require new approaches to edge case problems.



#1858 Canuck

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 23:34

Edge cases? No way man, that's going to happen all day every day! All the time! Lithium is going to kill us all!!



#1859 BRG

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 19:20

And as if Elon Musk himself was monitoring this thread........

 

Might just be a stray cigarette butt, but let's not let that stop our fun!



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#1860 Canuck

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 19:42

Well, if it reignites later...

#1861 Bloggsworth

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 09:07

Hot news. New tech may require new approaches to edge case problems.

 

Perhaps the toxic foam they use on aircraft fires - Just what one needs in the middle of the high street.



#1862 Greg Locock

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 17:12

No, toxic foam in the shed where broken teslas are stored.



#1863 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 19:34

And as if Elon Musk himself was monitoring this thread........

 

Might just be a stray cigarette butt, but let's not let that stop our fun!

 

 

http://www.grandprix...arage-fire.html

 

 

ICE are dangerous! Ban F1! Ban Ferraris!



#1864 Bloggsworth

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 19:13

Report today that you are 6% more likely to be run over by an AV if you're not white/have lighter skin tones! This from computer modelling by universities as the AV companies won't release actual statistics...



#1865 gruntguru

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 22:04

Makes sense.

 - AVs are mostly designed and programmed by white guys.

 - Whites are more likely to be driving than walking. 

 

Was the report based on actual incidents? Were the vehicles in fully autonomous mode with no observer at the controls. If the sample size was statistically significant this would be sensational news - "hundreds of pedestrians run over by AV prototypes"



#1866 Bloggsworth

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:18

Makes sense.

 - AVs are mostly designed and programmed by white guys.

 - Whites are more likely to be driving than walking. 

 

Was the report based on actual incidents? Were the vehicles in fully autonomous mode with no observer at the controls. If the sample size was statistically significant this would be sensational news - "hundreds of pedestrians run over by AV prototypes"

 

No, I said: "This from computer modelling by universities as the AV companies won't release actual statistics..."



#1867 Greg Locock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 11:14

Sof if AVs run twice as many black pedestrians as white ones, but only run over 10% as many as human drivers, which is worse? AVs or humans? This is, of course, just silliness. Sure, the vision techniques need to be improved.



#1868 gruntguru

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 22:50

No, I said: "This from computer modelling by universities as the AV companies won't release actual statistics..."

Ahh missed that - sorry.

 

Any incident involving an AV gets hyper exposure in the media - and this forum. We haven't seen much - so I doubt there is much in the way of data.



#1869 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 14:41

https://www.independ...r-a8828096.html

 

Knock knock

 

Who's there?

 

Hacker

 

Hacker who?