114 replies to this topic

[King Six]

Some changes made to the circuit.

'Massa kerb' at Turn 8-9 extended from 5m to 15m (sausage kerb)

Height of all kerbs now 25 mm (they were earlier uneven)

Turn 2-3 and 7-8 have astroturf lining to provide additional safety to run-off areas

Special track sweepers at work, utilising built-in watermist system

Video screens around the track increased from 11 to 17

Single-day tickets starting from Rs 2,000 for Sunday race. 4,400 tickets for Sunday already sold, most after Schumacher's retirement announcement last week. This will be one of Schumi's last races

In place of GT1 race in December, the circuit officials are looking to host the final round of JK Racing Asia Series, MRF Championship and one round of VW Polo series as well

"Any circuit takes about two years to stabilise fully. In the first year, the time gap between start of the race and completion of construction was very little. This time around plenty of grassy banks have been added at different points on the circuit which should cut down on the dust. It was all mud underneath the temporary stand which has been tiled now.

"From October 1, we have banned any movement of cars on the track. We have got specialized track sweepers with builtin brushing and water-mist system too."

http://timesofindia....ow/16762267.cms

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Other news: No penalties for drivers doing stupid things at the previous Grand Prix. Expect more gearbox and engine penalties though, through the weekend.

Weather will probably be dry, the area could use some rain leading up to the weekend to scrub the skies and make for a less drab/smoggy/dusty sky.

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Thoughts:

Seeing as Red Bull dominated this circuit last year, I fail to see why Vettel won't do the same this weekend. Ferrari ought to be on damage limitation this weekend and hope for an Alonso podium, not sure if they're bringing updates to India or not. Teams might have some issues with that too due to the lengthy/awkward customs process in India.

The races tend to get processional this time of the year as the updates become less frequent and everything settles down rather quickly, the tyres become pretty much known and such. I'm guessing they will extend the DRS zone from last year to slightly improve things, but hopefully the race gives us something good.

[engel]

Ferrari ought to be on damage limitation this weekend and hope for an Alonso podium,not sure if they're bringing updates to India or not

My understanding is that they are supposed to introduce the final "big" update package in India, the customs issue relates to teams being unable to do the last minute new part arrives Saturday morning thing

[Atreiu]

They had two DRS zones last year, right?
McLaren will get it right, but then they'll find out it's lost. And Ferrari will have a tough time thinking what to do to save it. I'd bet on Vettel followed by Hamilton and either Button or Webber on the podium. Alonso's damage limitation will take him to fifth.

[vas04614]

lap around the circuit on Oct 5th

Edited by vas04614, 15 October 2012 - 14:04.

[Vickyy]

lap around the circuit on Oct 5th

the track indeed look much cleaner and greener.

[mprtc]

lap around the circuit on Oct 5th

That looks great

[MrAerodynamicist]

Has there been any of racing there, or is it a once-a-year Christmas special?

[Seanspeed]

lap around the circuit on Oct 5th

Lord, the driver was agonizingly slow.

Track does look good, though.

[Dalton007]

Lord, the driver was agonizingly slow.

Track does look good, though.

Painful to watch. He was barely hitting the apexes.

[showtime]

Painful to watch. He was barely hitting the apexes.

The apexes? He was barely hitting the throttle.

[vas04614]

Found this India names kerb after Massa

Ha haa........Generally corners are named after drivers/people but kerbs, really??

[eronrules]

i think this video will help with the circuit guide ...

[King Six]

It's weird I can't find any good onboard videos from last year, just a few half videos and a free practice lap by Rosberg. Not even the pole lap. Formula One is so outdated digitally...

[Baddoer]

Expect even more boring race than in Korea
Don't get me wrong, but this hairpin after the first corner is in very wrong place, rest of the circuit is pretty good.

Edited by Baddoer, 15 October 2012 - 17:04.

[showtime]

It's weird I can't find any good onboard videos from last year, just a few half videos and a free practice lap by Rosberg. Not even the pole lap. Formula One is so outdated digitally...

http://www.formula1....uid=2011103017O

Edited by showtime, 15 October 2012 - 17:24.

[Crossmax]

Turn 2-3 and 7-8 have astroturf lining to provide additional safety to run-off areas

More collectibles for Hamilton then!

[SpaMaster]

Rain is unlikely. Temperatures would be on the warmer side (27-32 deg C).

I must say ticket prices are incredibly expensive in local money. Only hardcore F1 fans and corporate show-offs can attend. With this kind of pricing, they would never be able to get any common localites interested.

[Fastcake]

Looking far better than last year, more vegetation and less smog and dust is the way to go.

[H2H]

To be honest I like the track, it is perhaps the most distinct of the T ones. The elevation changes, some tricky corners and a flowing fast sector are good elements, I just hope that we won't have as much dirt outside of the racing line, it really made overtaking very difficult in 2011.

[akshay380]

Has there been any of racing there, or is it a once-a-year Christmas special?

No but the track was used for few track days and many corporate events. Next year they are hosting Superbike WC and few races from local series.

Rain is unlikely. Temperatures would be on the warmer side (27-32 deg C).

I must say ticket prices are incredibly expensive in local money. Only hardcore F1 fans and corporate show-offs can attend. With this kind of pricing, they would never be able to get any common localites interested.

I dont think ticket prices are that expensive. Starting Rs 3000 for a weekend ticket and 2000 for race day is quite good. What is expensive is traveling to the venue and accommodation. Main reason I could not afford it this year.

[packapoo]

Hope they don't use artificial grass there too.

[PayasYouRace]

I bought F1 2012 (XBox360) yesterday and had a chance to play the track for the first time. I liked it more than I expected. It had more of the feel of a classic track. Hoping we get a good race there this year.

[Vickyy]

I bought F1 2012 (XBox360) yesterday and had a chance to play the track for the first time. I liked it more than I expected. It had more of the feel of a classic track. Hoping we get a good race there this year.

I tried playing the circuit on F1 2011, lord, I couldn't put a single perfect lap in 20 odd tries.
On the point of expecting a good race, I am little apprehensive because of tight sector 2 and 3 and cake walk DRS passes in sector 1

[Jon83]

Was DRS particularly effective last year? I don't remember it being but then I don't have the best memory!

[MrMontecarlo]

Why do the teams use relatively low downforce configurations for this GP? I mean, last year they reached quite high top speeds and longest straight is not one of the longest of the championship. Common sense says you need high downforce for this track, with so many fast corners. It seems I'm missing something here.

Edited by MrMontecarlo, 16 October 2012 - 12:42.

[sailor]

Why do the teams use relatively low downforce configurations for this GP? I mean, last year they reached quite high top speeds and longest straight is not one of the longest of the championship. Common sense says you need high downforce for this track, with so many fast corners. It seems I'm missing something here.

They have sims etc which spits out the optimum DF levels. No manual intervention needed.

[PayasYouRace]

Why do the teams use relatively low downforce configurations for this GP? I mean, last year they reached quite high top speeds and longest straight is not one of the longest of the championship. Common sense says you need high downforce for this track, with so many fast corners. It seems I'm missing something here.

I don't think common sense does say you need high downforce for this track. It features long straights, and a number of tight corners where the aero load isn't as important for grip. The fast corner at the back of the circuit is also banked slightly, alleviating the need for higher downforce.

As sailor says. The teams will have done simulations as to what the best downforce levels are. Turns out for this track it's better to be relatively light on wing angle.

[goingthedistance]

Should be another good one for the Torro Rossos.

[SpaMaster]

No but the track was used for few track days and many corporate events. Next year they are hosting Superbike WC and few races from local series.


I dont think ticket prices are that expensive. Starting Rs 3000 for a weekend ticket and 2000 for race day is quite good. What is expensive is traveling to the venue and accommodation. Main reason I could not afford it this year.

Getting to the venue does not seem to be that straightforward. I would know more when I attend it once. NCR region is also expensive for accommodation as you say. But I do feel ticket prices are quite expensive for local population. When one talks of visiting a F1 race, you really need to be there for more than the race. Preferably all three day, but at least Saturday and Sunday. Rs. 2000 is too much for 2 hrs if you ask me. I am sure they would rip you off for food, water, snacks, etc. It's already Rs. 900 extra for bus commute to circuit. If you want to get a good taste of F1 as a first-timer, you need to be there for more than the race day, and for that Rs. 3000 is quite expensive in local terms. I am pretty sure it won't attract the common man, and may even distance him.

Edited by SpaMaster, 16 October 2012 - 15:11.

[Disgrace]

Should be another good one for the Torro Rossos.

Not necessarily. Williams have an identified aerodynamic issue with the front wing, for which updates may arrive. Sauber and Mercedes also had particularly poor weekends in Korea. Although Toro Rosso displayed great pace in the race, they'll need to qualify much higher than 16th and 17th to replicate their performance.

Edited by Disgrace, 16 October 2012 - 15:15.

[Zava]

Not necessarily. Williams have an identified aerodynamic issue with the front wing, for which updates may arrive. Sauber and Mercedes also had particularly poor weekends in Korea. Although Toro Rosso displayed great pace in the race, they'll need to qualify much higher than 16th and 17th to replicate their performance.

you're saying that as if it was their genuine quali pace.

[Disgrace]

you're saying that as if it was their genuine quali pace.

To be honest, I wasn't paying enough attention to them in qualifying to know whether it was driver or car performance in qualifying trim that caused them to be 16th and 17th, which is why I didn't elaborate.

My point was that they need to resolve whatever that is to make use of their race pace, particularly as India's sector one and two are not dissimilar to Korea's sector one where JEV set purples all race.

Edited by Disgrace, 16 October 2012 - 15:39.

[Zava]

To be honest, I wasn't paying enough attention to them in qualifying to know whether it was driver or car performance in qualifying trim that caused them to be 16th and 17th, which is why I didn't elaborate.

My point was that they need to resolve whatever that is to make use of their race pace, particularly as India's sector one and two are not dissimilar to Korea's sector one where JEV set purples all race.

Ricciardo had a gearbox failure in Q2 and pulled over, yellow flags in s3 (iirc), at the very same time, Vergne was on a flyer with a purple s1... not sure if the yellow was the cause for his bad lap, maybe there was a mistake as well, but both were definitely capable of more.

[Baddoer]

Not necessarily. Williams have an identified aerodynamic issue with the front wing, for which updates may arrive. Sauber and Mercedes also had particularly poor weekends in Korea. Although Toro Rosso displayed great pace in the race, they'll need to qualify much higher than 16th and 17th to replicate their performance.

Toro Rosso and Force India should be good on these long straights after slow corners. They have monster top speed and good traction. Williams have poor top speed, Sauber have terrible traction. Mercedes... Ah, they are obviously already at next year.

[eronrules]

Toro Rosso and Force India should be good on these long straights after slow corners. They have monster top speed and good traction. Williams have poor top speed, Sauber have terrible traction. Mercedes... Ah, they are obviously already at next year.

now where have i heard that before ... seriously though, we heard the same BS of developing next years car with W01,W02 and now W03, WTF mercedes???

but that doesn't concern me, what does is as said before, sector 1 is pretty much similar to korea with straights, meaning our LotusF1 boys will suffer due to power sacrifice using coanda exhaust. on the upside, James allison have said that they're understanding the exhaust better and will be able to extract more out of it. not to forget both kimi and Grosjean will have the system. but i fear that in 1st sector, they'll suffer in the hands of mclarens, force india and toro- rosso (provided they quali in top 10). so it'll be an interesting race to watch.

[ViMaMo]

Just read this on a magazine, Jaypee paid Rs.245 crores (45 million US dollars) for license fee this year to the FIA. Last year they paid Rs.175 crores.

[King Six]

Just read this on a magazine, Jaypee paid Rs.245 crores (45 million US dollars) for license fee this year to the FIA. Last year they paid Rs.175 crores.

I really don't know how this is sustainable. Even with sellout crowds, all buying merchandise. Especially for a private company with no taxpayers money involved like it is in India. At least governments can say it is maybe a worthy investment because F1 might give a boom to the local economy, but for a private organisation. I don't really know. It's insane just how high the prices go up year on year, and it's criminal that most of the money just goes towards financing CVC and Bernie, whilst most of the teams struggle to stay on top of their debt and constantly have to chase pay drivers...this isn't even sustainable.

It's amazing how many governments and businesses get hoodwinked by Formula One. Bernie won't care when two, three or four tracks go bust because he'll always have some other suckers to jump in and sign a contract. So he can always charge however much he wants. At the end of the day you can only blame the organisers though, hosting an F1 event is a silly investment at best. Unless your country is absolutely mad about Formula One.

We'll see how F1 turns out eventually in India. They have a pretty good involvement already in the sport. Two drivers so far. Three team principles that are Indian or of Indian origin (Kaltenborn, Mallya, Fernandes) and a team registered under the Indian flag. It's a big market, but even then...the fees are extortionate.

[Seanspeed]

Rain is unlikely.

Its been a pretty dry year. Its only rained in one race so far, right?

Edited by Seanspeed, 18 October 2012 - 15:46.

[King Six]

Sauber arriving early. I always chuckle at the 80's style ground effect look the cars have when in shipment mode.

[Vickyy]

I really don't know how this is sustainable. Even with sellout crowds, all buying merchandise. Especially for a private company with no taxpayers money involved like it is in India. At least governments can say it is maybe a worthy investment because F1 might give a boom to the local economy, but for a private organisation. I don't really know. It's insane just how high the prices go up year on year, and it's criminal that most of the money just goes towards financing CVC and Bernie, whilst most of the teams struggle to stay on top of their debt and constantly have to chase pay drivers...this isn't even sustainable.

It's amazing how many governments and businesses get hoodwinked by Formula One. Bernie won't care when two, three or four tracks go bust because he'll always have some other suckers to jump in and sign a contract. So he can always charge however much he wants. At the end of the day you can only blame the organisers though, hosting an F1 event is a silly investment at best. Unless your country is absolutely mad about Formula One.

We'll see how F1 turns out eventually in India. They have a pretty good involvement already in the sport. Two drivers so far. Three team principles that are Indian or of Indian origin (Kaltenborn, Mallya, Fernandes) and a team registered under the Indian flag. It's a big market, but even then...the fees are extortionate.

Agreed, slashing ticket prices make things worse as far as revenue flow is concerned for any private player. But as far as jaypee is concerned, they were looking up this circuit as a brand maker, as a stepping stone for being a global infrastructure giant. And also, this venue is not like Korea, circuit was occupied for lot more commercial activities (try youtubing about the circuit, you will see plenty of videos). I read an article last year, they are expecting to reach break-even in 5-6 years, not sure if that included yearly feed-bernie fee. I reckon if they can get occupancy of likely 60-70% and with much interest of indian autmotive industry to launch events every now and then, Jaypee would do just fine wrt negative cashflow.

[Goron3]

Its been a pretty dry year. Its only rained in one race so far, right?

Yup, in Malaysia. Though we had wet weather at various points of the weekend at Silverstone, Germany, Hungary and Spa (woah, 4 in a row..has that happened before?!). Brazil is likely to be the only remaining race where we could expect wet weather.

[MortenF1]

I am expecting Lotus to be back to, or atleast very close to the competitiveness they showed at Hungaroring, with greater knowledge of their new exhaust lay-out, but also warmer weather. Ferrari, already showing great form in Korea, should pose a serious threat to Red Bull in the race, with their final development push in place for this GP. McLaren probably needs updates as well, to be able to live with the Red Bull and the prancing Horse.
In short, this should be a very tightly contested race all through, with Sauber, Force India and Toro Rosso likely to scrap in the race, most likely to joined by Mercedes and Williams, with a now working front wing.

[SamH123]

What with the coanda exhaust seemingly affecting their power I'm not sure Lotus will cope with the straights well enough
I would guess that the advantage in hot conditions that Lotus enjoyed is gone now (teams understand tyres better) but I do hope you're right anyway!

[MortenF1]

The straights can be a downside for Lotus, true, but they've often been able to tune in a lot of top speed, so hopefully they'll manage this time without trading in too much speed elsewhere. About the temps, even if they understand the tires now, there's still inherent qualities with each chassis, so some is sort of trapped with what they've got anyway.

[Alfons]

Going for the entire race weekend , went last year as well. Thoroughly enjoyed it , the dust last year quite a lot but the organizers this year have been cleaning the track for the past month . Most of the grass has grown nicely and looks great.

Track days do happen at the track but not as often as Silverstone , so the track surface is extremely smooth .

I have a spectator's guide to the Indian grand prix on my blog

[ViMaMo]

Hope to see an in-depth account into the track and raceday experience on the blogs.

[Alfons]

Hope to see an in-depth account into the track and raceday experience on the blogs.

http://alfonsjosef1....grand-prix.html

[hijinx]

http://alfonsjosef1....grand-prix.html

Hi Alfons,

I asked some questions in the traveling to a GP thread but seems no one has answered. I hope you can help me....
(1) I would like to know if I can bring bottled water supplied by the hotel I'm staying in, and if I can bring food that is store bought cos I'm worried about the hygiene of food at the circuit.
(2)Also I wanted to know about the professional cameras that are supposedly not allowed. I would like to know if a cannon 5D is considered professional? I also have a cannon 20D which will be my back up if 5D is considered professional. Is a cannon 20D also considered professional?
(3)Are there any restrictions for lens? I have the 50-500mm one and a smaller one (I think 40-400mm). Would any of those be a problem?


Sorry for piling these questions here but I dun want to make my way to the circuit and be denied entry cos of my cameras, for example. I may skip friday morning practice and go to Taj Mahal. I hope you have some information for me, thanks... so many restrictions, I'm already regretting this trip, sigh...

Edited by hijinx, 19 October 2012 - 04:32.

[BackOnTop]

Hi Alfons,

I asked some questions in the traveling to a GP thread but seems no one has answered. I hope you can help me....
(1) I would like to know if I can bring bottled water supplied by the hotel I'm staying in, and if I can bring food that is store bought cos I'm worried about the hygiene of food at the circuit.
(2)Also I wanted to know about the professional cameras that are supposedly not allowed. I would like to know if a cannon 5D is considered professional? I also have a cannon 20D which will be my back up if 5D is considered professional. Is a cannon 20D also considered professional?
(3)Are there any restrictions for lens? I have the 50-500mm one and a smaller one (I think 40-400mm). Would any of those be a problem?


Sorry for piling these questions here but I dun want to make my way to the circuit and be denied entry cos of my cameras, for example. I may skip friday morning practice and go to Taj Mahal. I hope you have some information for me, thanks... so many restrictions, I'm already regretting this trip, sigh...

Hi Hijinx,

1- Outside food & beverages, including bottled water is not allowed. Last year we had carried tasty 'Muffins' in our bags, but we had to leave it at the checkpoint @ the Stand Gate. After parking, each walk-in entry gates leading to the stands have x-ray machines where the bags must pass through.... & it apparently is good enough to show Muffins

2- Professional Cameras are allowed, or well, were allowed last year where I carried my Nikon D-90 with battery pack, and 70-300mm Lens. So I think 5D should not be a problem.

3- I suggest you carry only one Big Lens.. either the 50-500mm or the 40-400mm, and maybe one smaller Kit sized Lens (e.g.24-70mm). The security guys are very friendly overall, but they get a bit on edge seeing a lot of electronics in the bag due to India's history with terrorism. So it's best not to carry more than what is necessary.

Added Info:
- Restrictions for Formula 1 spectators here in India is not that bad, and you will breeze through with the above suggestion. Although the ticket lays down many restrictions, it's not that bad overall.

-Food & Beverage like burgers, rolls, coke, redbull & bottled water etc are available @ every stand of the circuit. And is easily accessible... approx 10 minutes to buy & get back to your seat.

-Saturday Qualyfing starts @ 2 PM... so it's best to leave your hotel @ 9 AM to avoid any traffic hinderance. It's better to reach the circuit by 10AM and chill around then to be stuck in entry traffic at 3PM

-Sunday Race starts @ 3 PM... and again, it's best to leave your hotel @ 9AM to avoid massive hindrance. Last year, we left our home for the circuit @ 9AM, reached the track at 11AM, and then walked around and chilled out on grass banks, visited eating stands, took a lot of pictures... and before we knew it, it was already 3 PM.

Once the race finished & we were heading out of the circuit... we saw a lot of cars (latecomers) still coming into the track. So i don't want you be to one of them

-About Agra: It's about 3 hours drive from Delhi/NCR @ 250Km distance. The Yamuna Expressway is brilliant with 4*2=8 Lane roads.... and it's really fast. If you leave in the morning, say about 7 AM.... you can easily make it back to your hotel by 6PM, or 10PM if you take it really easy.

Visit Taj Mahal first & the Agra fort second if possible... and have lunch when you can. Head back after visiting the Fort.

-No need to regret your trip if you play it safe and go to the circuit before time. Also, Delhi & India is not what they show on Discovery/Natgeo to put fear on foreigners.

Like all cities, if I visit New York & choose a hotel in the Bronx.... I will have a bad time as a tourist. So choose wisely where you stay. Delhi has hotels thats worth $5 as well as Hotels thats worth $1000 per night. The area you choose will define your trip in India.

PS- If you can provide the area name where your hotel is situated, I will be able to give you exact distance/time/locality info as well. So have a good trip... and don't dread, just embrace everything.

Edited by BackOnTop, 19 October 2012 - 06:36.

[ViMaMo]

http://alfonsjosef1....grand-prix.html

You could add the circuit map to your blog.