95 replies to this topic

[Tarzaan]

It seems most of you doesn't know the topographical features of that area...

@ViMaMo, @ maverick69, etc.

And if you extend the straight from turn 10 to the start finish straigh, it still add just about 60-80 meters to that straigt, which change nothing imho.


@ViMaMo! The section between turn 1/2 to turn 5/6 is might be the best part of the track (+ the turn 8 to turn 10)


So imho the main strike direction is the extend of the start/finish straight about 200m (from the current 800m to 10000m , the second is to extend the nothern straight behind turn 6 (with about 100-150m).

[korzeniow]

It seems most of you doesn't know the topographical features of that area...

@ViMaMo, @ maverick69, etc.

And if you extend the straight from turn 10 to the start finish straigh, it still add just about 60-80 meters to that straigt, which change nothing imho.

It changes last corner that leads into main straight. Which is the biggest issue with this track.

I would made it even slower (more acuted angle of the corner) that you could attempt to pass into this corner.

[maverick69]

It seems most of you doesn't know the topographical features of that area...

@ViMaMo, @ maverick69, etc.

And if you extend the straight from turn 10 to the start finish straigh, it still add just about 60-80 meters to that straigt, which change nothing imho.


@ViMaMo! The section between turn 1/2 to turn 5/6 is might be the best part of the track (+ the turn 8 to turn 10)


So imho the main strike direction is the extend of the start/finish straight about 200m (from the current 800m to 10000m , the second is to extend the nothern straight behind turn 6 (with about 100-150m).

It shows an indicated 190 meters on Google earth.

Edited by maverick69, 23 October 2012 - 08:39.

[Tarzaan]

It changes last corner that leads into main straight. Which is the biggest issue with this track.

I would made it even slower (more acuted angle of the corner) that you could attempt to pass into this corner.

The change the last corner is doable much easier. Watch this:

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5985221

http://img11.imageve...ta_122_66lo.JPG

And - as I mentioned earlier - the lap times should not be decrease.

It shows an indicated 170 meters on Google earth.

OK, but then you have to extend that run-off area very, but there are a massive hill which is a good spectator area, so you loose that.

Edited by Tarzaan, 23 October 2012 - 08:47.

[ViMaMo]

It seems most of you doesn't know the topographical features of that area...

@ViMaMo, @ maverick69, etc.

And if you extend the straight from turn 10 to the start finish straigh, it still add just about 60-80 meters to that straigt, which change nothing imho.


@ViMaMo! The section between turn 1/2 to turn 5/6 is might be the best part of the track (+ the turn 8 to turn 10)


So imho the main strike direction is the extend of the start/finish straight about 200m (from the current 800m to 10000m , the second is to extend the nothern straight behind turn 6 (with about 100-150m).

Im not extending the main straight. You exit corner 10 onto a short straight and it leads to a bus stop chicane, then you get half the corner 13 and then the main straight. Im just removing corner 11 and 12, which are the mickey mouse sections, and retaining the latter half of the corner 13 leading on to the main st. The idea being cars can use that chicane to get bit closer the the cars in front with having the aero affected by the long corner 13.

Yes corner 1/2 are good but 2 doesnt do anything to aid overtaking, just hinders the rhytm, why not reshape it so as to give a better flow leading onto the next set of corners? Hence corner 5 needs to be sharper to slow down cars and aid overtaking. Keep the next sequence of corners as it is from 6 to 10.

[maverick69]

OK, but then you have to extend that run-off area very, but there are a massive hill which is a good spectator area, so you loose that.

The civil engineer in me says to regrade the hill and use the material to sort out the gradient between T10 an the last corner ;)

I do understand there is some sentiment about that viewing area....... But it in effect it would still remain........ Albeit "moved back" somewhat.

Edited by maverick69, 23 October 2012 - 11:34.

[PayasYouRace]

And - as I mentioned earlier - the lap times should not be decrease.

Why?

Going by last year, Hungary was the 3rd slowest track - FL 1'23.415 - Race 1:46'42.337*

The reason I chose last year was to compare more directly with Interlagos, which is also a fairly short track. FL 1'15.324 - Race 1:32'17.464.

Interlagos is a medium-fast track, about 8th fastest in F1. It has very short laptimes due to its short length but I don't see people complaining. The race still takes an hour and a half to complete the 305km. If anything, I'd hope to shorten and quicken the laptime at the Hungaroring to take it into Interlagos territory.


*Not counting 4 hours at Canada. Also I realise Hungary was wet last year but it doesn't make much of a difference. This year the FL 1'24.136 - Race 1:41'05.503. 4 minutes after 300km is not much really.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 23 October 2012 - 09:23.

[Tarzaan]

Why?

Going by last year, Hungary was the 3rd slowest track - FL 1'23.415 - Race 1:46'42.337*

The reason I chose last year was to compare more directly with Interlagos, which is also a fairly short track. FL 1'15.324 - Race 1:32'17.464.

Interlagos is a medium-fast track, about 8th fastest in F1. It has very short laptimes due to its short length but I don't see people complaining. The race still takes an hour and a half to complete the 305km. If anything, I'd hope to shorten and quicken the laptime at the Hungaroring to take it into Interlagos territory.


*Not counting 4 hours at Canada. Also I realise Hungary was wet last year but it doesn't make much of a difference. This year the FL 1'24.136 - Race 1:41'05.503. 4 minutes after 300km is not much really.

I wrote laptimes nor average speed or race time;)

imho 1:15 as fastest lap is near the limit bacause the number of the lappings and I read somwhere the FIA or the FOM has the same opinion.

Imho laptimes should stay above 1:20...

Edited by Tarzaan, 23 October 2012 - 09:38.

[PayasYouRace]

I wrote laptimes nor average speed or race time;)

imho 1:15 as fastest lap is near the limit bacause the number of the lappings and I read somwhere the FIA or the FOM has the same opinion.

Imho laptimes should stay above 1:20...

Laptimes, average speed and race time are all related so I wasn't to know exactly what aspect you were referring to. So the backmarkers get lapped a few more times? That's not a huge problem. I'd say as long as the lap is over a minute it's fine. I'd rather have a short but medium speed track to a needlessly slow one.

[Tarzaan]

Laptimes, average speed and race time are all related so I wasn't to know exactly what aspect you were referring to. So the backmarkers get lapped a few more times? That's not a huge problem. I'd say as long as the lap is over a minute it's fine. I'd rather have a short but medium speed track to a needlessly slow one.

Laptimes and avarage speed not related. In Spa the laptimes are longer, but the avarage speed are much faster than in monaco or in hungaroring.

Backmarkers could be a huge problem in a tight track.

[PayasYouRace]

Laptimes and avarage speed not related. In Spa the laptimes are longer, but the avarage speed are much faster than in monaco or in hungaroring.

Backmarkers could be a huge problem in a tight track.

How seriously should I be taking you with a statement like that? Of course they are related, by what we call the length of the track.

Edit: Sorry for how that comes off but I'm really not buying this idea that the track needs to be longer and slower just to save on a bit of lapping of backmarkers. Hungary is already a tight enough track, and I'm sure it could benefit from being opened up, even if the track length is sacrificed. Think Interlagos and A1-Ring, both short and sweet and work great with modern F1 cars.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 23 October 2012 - 11:59.

[Alexis*27]

I'd want to be a bit more adventurous and dive into the forest in the centre!

[wj_gibson]

I'm sure I once read somewhere that the land plot for the circuit is doughnut-shaped - i.e. someone else owns the land in the middle of the circuit, so it could never really be extended into that interior.

[Jimisgod]

I'd want to be a bit more adventurous and dive into the forest in the centre!

that's awful

[Les]

I think if we say that all the issues of elevation/run-off and spectator areas can be solved so the back straight goes straight to the last corner then I think Maverick 69 has got it spot on (I also like how he done it by cutting and pasting other parts of the track!). Here is my fairly similar solution:

[PayasYouRace]

I do like the "Maverick" solution. Seems like the fastest and most overtaking friendly. It seems like a fairly good way of keeping the character of the track while making improvements. I would have suggested the same thing.

It's too sensible really, so it'll never happen.

[Jimisgod]

my solution

[maverick69]

I think if we say that all the issues of elevation/run-off and spectator areas can be solved so the back straight goes straight to the last corner then I think Maverick 69 has got it spot on (I also like how he done it by cutting and pasting other parts of the track!).

Thanks! All I can say is God bless Microsoft Paint! Although I'm sure there are some mortified "PhotoShoppers" out there!

Edited by maverick69, 23 October 2012 - 16:11.

[BoschKurve]

I must be the only person who likes the Hungaroring as is. The need to increase overtaking is feeling to be a bit much now...it's the very fact that overtaking is not easy at this circuit that makes it so fantastic to watch. It also allows for defending since you do not have the wide tarmac areas seen at so many of the Tilkedromes. I'd also say the circuit has a fantastic flow to it.

[johnmhinds]

A lot of people seen to be straight lining 12-13 and then adding it back in at turn 3 which seems to defeat the purpose

If they really want to be adventures they could change the section from 10-13 and use that open space to create a more flowing mini Maggots-Becketts ('S' Curves) style section which would unbalance the cars coming onto the main straight and create more passing into turn 1.

[ViMaMo]

[Kvothe]

That chicane complex before turn 13 is an abomination.

[Frank Tuesday]

It seems most of you doesn't know the topographical features of that area...

@ViMaMo, @ maverick69, etc.

And if you extend the straight from turn 10 to the start finish straigh, it still add just about 60-80 meters to that straigt, which change nothing imho.


@ViMaMo! The section between turn 1/2 to turn 5/6 is might be the best part of the track (+ the turn 8 to turn 10)


So imho the main strike direction is the extend of the start/finish straight about 200m (from the current 800m to 10000m , the second is to extend the nothern straight behind turn 6 (with about 100-150m).

I think its funny that the idea of adding an incline between 12 and 14 to extend the straight is crazy, but tearing up and rerouting a road and gas station is easy.

[olliek88]

I should point out that T2 can't be moved further away from T1 as thats the support paddock, lose that space and you need to find somewhere to squeeze GP2, GP3 & the porches in!

[August]

A quick edit staying between roads around the track:



Made very much only overtaking spots in mind. The flat-out section from T3 would be about 1km long. That turn in the middle of the straight wouldn't require too much downforce so that the car behind would be in a disadvantage, yet maybe a car with worse tyres might be in trouble there. And after cars have had different lines (either to overtake or to defend) in that hairpin, there's another overtaking spot at the next quite long straight. Then I retained some of the nicest middle sector corners before a straight that ends up in a uphill braking zone. And the lap ends with a chicane that has a fast exit, what I think to be better for overtaking on the pit straight than the current hairpin.

And the distance is 4.6 km.

Edited by August, 23 October 2012 - 16:28.

[Disgrace]

That chicane complex before turn 13 is an abomination.

It's basically a slower yet end to the lap like Barcelona. Most of these suggestions are quite fun though.

[Dino2000]

Very good ideas around here.

Basically they were talking about 3.5 M budget, this is quite tight and does not allow plenty of changes. And the basic layout is quite good as is. So if all they want to get is another overtaking spot, I would rework swiftly turn 4, as the following picture:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Comments please.

[August]

Very good ideas around here.

Basically they were talking about 3.5 M budget, this is quite tight and does not allow plenty of changes. And the basic layout is quite good as is. So if all they want to get is another overtaking spot, I would rework swiftly turn 4, as the following picture:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Comments please.

If OP's translation about extension is correct, then I'd assume it to be more than just slightly changing a track.

About your edit; that's the easiest way to try to create an overtaking spot, another thing is if it'd lead to more overtaking, that turn before T5 may either make overtaking more difficult or enable taking different lines.

[Dino2000]

If OP's translation about extension is correct, then I'd assume it to be more than just slightly changing a track.

About your edit; that's the easiest way to try to create an overtaking spot, another thing is if it'd lead to more overtaking, that turn before T5 may either make overtaking more difficult or enable taking different lines.

Thank you. I can recall some overtakings in turn 5, at least one of Alonso over Michael. Turn 5 is wide enough to allow overtaking in the exterior where you have a good line for the next chicane. Even remember some tries before turn 4 but as is now it is too tight.

I like Hungaroring, is like a mini Nordshliefe because of the hills and the surrounding trees. I would don't like too much "tilkenization" of this track... please not more Yas Marinas!!!!!

Regards,

Dino

[SpaceHorseParty]

I have got a few proposals of my own. These would include widening of the track, installing tarmac run-offs in every corner and leveling of the track so that there wouldn't be any unnecessary elevation, but all in all it should maximise the overtaking opportunities. The races will be very interesting to watch.

[Goron3]

I have got a few proposals of my own. These would include widening of the track, installing tarmac run-offs in every corner and leveling of the track so that there wouldn't be any unnecessary elevation, but all in all it should maximise the overtaking opportunities. The races will be very interesting to watch.

LOL that is simply incredible.

Edited by Goron3, 23 October 2012 - 18:37.

[Tarzaan]

I have got a few proposals of my own. These would include widening of the track, installing tarmac run-offs in every corner and leveling of the track so that there wouldn't be any unnecessary elevation, but all in all it should maximise the overtaking opportunities. The races will be very interesting to watch.

OK, you are the winner...

[Atreiu]

Haha well done!

[my_own_shadow]

Judging by the budget available, it should be like this: Aquarena Haiprin! There will be incredible view from Aquapark hills.

[olliek88]

Am i the only one who thinks the Hungaroring is as boring as sin? For me it has all the negatives of a street circuit (tight, hard to overtake, dull races) and none of the benefits (driver challenge, zero run off, sense of speed) Rip the place up and start again! The location has potential.

[jee]

[Fulcrum]

+1

[Mauseri]

I think the chicane should be removed, and one or two fast kinks added to the circuit, and 3rd sector could be lenghtened with a fast 135 deg corner and a medium slow 180 deg corner. This is what character of the track is made of. Together with the sweeping second sector which could be lenghtened with one more sweep.

I think it's already a great drivers circuit as it is, but it could be even more.

Edited by Mauseri, 23 October 2012 - 23:14.

[BigCHrome]

I must be the only person who likes the Hungaroring as is. The need to increase overtaking is feeling to be a bit much now...it's the very fact that overtaking is not easy at this circuit that makes it so fantastic to watch. It also allows for defending since you do not have the wide tarmac areas seen at so many of the Tilkedromes. I'd also say the circuit has a fantastic flow to it.

This!! Great Post.

Every idea I've seen so far will completely kill the circuit and turn it into another standardized characterless crap track.

[loki]

Or have the the track run up the hill. Like they did in Austin. For which they created a hill. Twice the size of this sand dune.;)

The elevation changes in Austin are natural to the area. The T1 hill was already there. It wasn't built. They did though regrade it and profile it but it was already a hill. Any of the elevation changes at he Hungaroring could be accomplished by modern civil engineering and excavating equipment.

[Anderis]

Am i the only one who thinks the Hungaroring is as boring as sin? For me it has all the negatives of a street circuit (tight, hard to overtake, dull races) and none of the benefits (driver challenge, zero run off, sense of speed) Rip the place up and start again! The location has potential.

I think in simillar way. As long as there is no rain, there are almost 0 battles for position on the circuit. Yes, there can be one circuit in the calendar which can bring little overtaking opportunities and unique characteristics as a some kind of a challenge for drivers and teams, but there is Monaco and it's enough. On other circuits I want to see some entertaining fights between drivers every race and Hungaroring, as it is now, doesn't allow it. From my point of view, it's the worst track in the current calendar and if it's set to stay in F1 for years, I want it to be rebuild to ensure more overtaking opportunities.

[lustigson]

The one track that they should bomb, is Barcelona. That's had far more boring Grands Prix over the last 20-odd years than the Hungaroring.

If there would be changes to the latter circuit, though, they should consider straightening turn 4 to ease the entry to turn 5, and perhaps tighten turn 5, and straighten turn 10 to ease the way to turn 11.

This way, turns 5 and 11 have longer straights in front of them, enabling cars to follow eachother towards said turns easier, and improve the odds of overtaking at those turns.

[Baddoer]

I like Hungaroring, it has some really decent cornerns, epsecially in sector 2. The chicane kills a bit of flow, but otherwise i like this circuit as is.

[OO7]

Judging by the budget available, it should be like this: Aquarena Haiprin! There will be incredible view from Aquapark hills.

I hope you don't mind my_own_shadow, but I edited your image to show a couple of my ideas .

Hungaroring Version 1:



Hungaroring Version 2:

[Baddoer]

I would like to see some banking added to turn three and last corner to encourage overtaking on following straights.

[August]

Judging by the budget available, it should be like this: Aquarena Haiprin! There will be incredible view from Aquapark hills.

Quite good considering the budget. Maybe T4 could be a bit faster and then that hairpin a bit farther. And no T6 chicane.