Jump to content


Photo

2011 spending England-based teams


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 11,133 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:19

England-based F1 teams have the obligation to file their year accounts at the London Company House.
This gives us some insight into the level of spending at these teams.
The following has been reported by AMuS:
  • Red Bull Racing - 207 million euros (42 million euros more than in the 2010 season).
  • Mercedes - 145 million euros (almost 100 million euros less than Red Bull).
  • Lotus - 155 million euros.
  • Williams - 111 million euros.
McLaren figures are yet to come out.

Appallingly low spending by Mercedes.

Edited by Timstr11, 24 October 2012 - 11:21.


Advertisement

#2 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 69,478 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:23

207 - 145 = 62

Not really 100.

I imagine a decent chunk of Red Bull's increase will be bonuses. Vettel won 5 races in 2010 and 11 in 2011.

I'm surprised Lotus is so high though.

#3 ayali

ayali
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:24

England-based F1 teams have the obligation to file their year accounts at the London Company House.
This gives us some insight into the level of spending at these teams.
The following has been reported by AMuS:

  • Red Bull Racing - 207 million euros (42 million euros more than in the 2010 season).
  • Mercedes - 145 million euros (almost 100 million euros less than Red Bull).
  • Lotus - 155 million euros.
  • Williams - 111 million euros.
McLaren figures are yet to come out.

Appallingly low spending by Mercedes.

How is 62 million "almost 100 million" ??

#4 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 24,873 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:26

How much of Mercedes' work and therefore expenditure is done elsewhere?

#5 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 5,975 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:27

Bloody hell! Red Bull splashing some serious cash in the RRA era...... Especially when you consider they get a works engine deal.

They made it count though!

#6 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 5,373 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:31

The article says Red Bull Technologies spent 245m EUR, out of which 207m EUR were allocated to Red Bull Racing. Then they compare RB Technologies' numbers to MGP's 145m. Odd.

#7 03011969

03011969
  • Member

  • 656 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:37

England-based F1 teams have the obligation to file their year accounts at the London Company House.
This gives us some insight into the level of spending at these teams.
The following has been reported by AMuS:
[list]
[*]Red Bull Racing - 207 million euros (42 million euros more than in the 2010 season).
[*]Mercedes - 145 million euros (almost 100 million euros less than Red Bull)...

Could I please borrow £100 off you, then pay you back £62?

I mean, that's almost £100 yes?

:)

Edited by 3011969, 24 October 2012 - 11:38.


#8 BackmarkerUK

BackmarkerUK
  • Member

  • 348 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:37

I assume Lotus is 'the team formerly known as Renault', and not Caterham. Would be interested to see how Team Lotus/Caterham and Marussia/Virgin stack up against the established teams and each other.

#9 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 5,373 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:40

How much of Mercedes' work and therefore expenditure is done elsewhere?

Engines and KERS stuff are designed and built at Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, not sure about gearboxes. I don't know if those costs are fully accounted for in MGP's budget or if they get a manufacturer's discount or something. But everything else is at Brackley as far as i know.

#10 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:01

Bloody hell! Red Bull splashing some serious cash in the RRA era...... Especially when you consider they get a works engine deal.

They made it count though!

We are yet to see McLaren spending. I remember McLaren and Ferrari budgets to be in $300 million range recently, which would be close to 200 million Euros.

#11 vas04614

vas04614
  • Member

  • 619 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:05

Why no FI's figures?

#12 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:56

the 100 million error probably means 100 million dollars, mixing currancies :well:

macca ones will be interesting :)

#13 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 24 October 2012 - 13:10

To think the original FIA-proposed budget cap (2009) was around 35 million euros! Didn't the new teams come in with this is mind?

#14 ayali

ayali
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 24 October 2012 - 13:26

Why no FI's figures?

I believe Force India is even later with filing their figures than they are with paying their bills ;)

#15 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 12,207 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 October 2012 - 13:28

Why no FI's figures?


Mallya's got quite the reputation for being tardy with paperwork and bill paying. A few years back they got in trouble with Companies House for failing to deliver their accounts.

#16 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,362 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 24 October 2012 - 15:31

I would rather say that Mercedes' results are appallingly bad compared to the amount they've spent. Similar in performance to the Williams car with much more money, but with much better drivers, too, of course, hence the points gap.

#17 BoschKurve

BoschKurve
  • Member

  • 1,525 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 24 October 2012 - 15:36

Are these numbers taking into account any ways teams might be trying to hide spending through creative accounting?

#18 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 24 October 2012 - 15:48

I would rather say that Mercedes' results are appallingly bad compared to the amount they've spent. Similar in performance to the Williams car with much more money, but with much better drivers, too, of course, hence the points gap.


This is for 2011, not 2012.

#19 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 24 October 2012 - 15:50

not sure which is true.....some say 207 another says 245 million euros.....

Red Bull spent over $300 million in quest for 2011 F1 world title

Oct.24 (GMM) Red Bull has the standout budget among Formula 1′s UK-based teams and spent over $300 million to succesfully defend defend their 2010 title last year, according to a report Auto Motor und Sport.

Citing British companies data, the magazine said Red Bull Technology – the Red Bull Racing parent – had a budget of EUR 245 million ($316 million) in 2011 as Sebastian Vettel sped to his back-to-back drivers’ world championship.

Auto Motor und Sport said Red Bull’s budget last year was EUR 42 million higher than in 2010.

Brackley based Mercedes, meanwhile, reportedly spent just EUR 145 million in 2011 — a full EUR 100 million less than Red Bull.

Lotus’ 2011 budget was a reported EUR 155m, compared to Williams’ 111m.

McLaren’s figures are pending.

But the news about Red Bull coincides with a fresh wave of speculation in the paddock about the energy drink-owned team’s defiance in the face of the teams-governed Resource Restriction Agreement (RRA).

McLaren’s Martin Whitmarsh, however, fell short of accusing Red Bull of cheating.

“If they are ahead of us, it’s because they’ve done the better job,” he said


http://www.totalf1.c...F1_world_title/

Advertisement

#20 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,370 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 15:59

It's a misunderstanding.

The sum is 247m, 207m was spent by RB Racing and the rest by some other company but apparently also for F1.

Edited by Diablobb81, 24 October 2012 - 16:00.


#21 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 11,133 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:00

207 - 145 = 62

Not really 100.

I imagine a decent chunk of Red Bull's increase will be bonuses. Vettel won 5 races in 2010 and 11 in 2011.

I'm surprised Lotus is so high though.

I meant to say RedBull Technology has spent 245 million Euro (the accounts say that of that amount, 207 million euro was spent on RedBull Racing).

Edited by Timstr11, 24 October 2012 - 16:00.


#22 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 69,478 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:08

So some of that money went to Toro Rosso, presumably.

#23 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,050 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:20

So some of that money went to Toro Rosso, presumably.


Surely they're classed as two different ventures/businesses and as such have separate budgets? They're owned by Red Bull the company rather than Red Bull Racing/technologies.

#24 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 15,049 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:42

England-based F1 teams have the obligation to file their year accounts at the London Company House.
This gives us some insight into the level of spending at these teams.
The following has been reported by AMuS:

  • Red Bull Racing - 207 million euros (42 million euros more than in the 2010 season).
  • Mercedes - 145 million euros (almost 100 million euros less than Red Bull).
  • Lotus - 155 million euros.
  • Williams - 111 million euros.
McLaren figures are yet to come out.

Appallingly low spending by Mercedes.


This is the problem with the RRA and why I agree with Red Bull. How do we know that Mercedes Benz, as opposed to Mercedes F1, haven't also spent £100m towards their F1 efforts?
What if sponsors are paying drivers directly?

#25 darkkis

darkkis
  • Member

  • 898 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:48

They really shouldn't restrict spending. F1 is and always has been about innovations. Budget restrictions would turn F1 just into a dull series like Nascar.

#26 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 69,478 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 24 October 2012 - 16:50

No it wouldn't. And dull is relative. There's quite a few people who prefer NASCAR over F1. Several million in fact.

#27 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 30,922 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 24 October 2012 - 17:08

No it wouldn't. And dull is relative. There's quite a few people who prefer NASCAR over F1. Several million in fact.


I agree that there are a lot of fans who follow NASCAR over F1.

I disagree that the FIA, FOTO and whoever is on this should have any say on how much or how little a team is spending in their quest for wins and championships. The FIA should write rules and regulations which did not force the teams to invest untold Brazilians on eking out the last precious fractions of a second, and FOTA should concentrate on making the sport appealing and much cheaper for regular people to attend.

:cool:

#28 King Six

King Six
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 17:40

FOM's only interest is to give Bernie and CVC as much cash as they can grab their hands on. And apparently as it is for the next concorde agreement Bernie and co want to increase their share even further at the expense of the teams.

The truth is FOM should be run non-profit in terms of itself (i.e: paycheques to Bernie and CVC) and all the earnings should go towards the teams. It's absurd how much Bernie and CVC take out of the sport.


Edited by King Six, 24 October 2012 - 17:44.


#29 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 69,478 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 24 October 2012 - 17:45

They should be able to make some profit, but I'd treat FOM as a team. So if there's 12 teams we split the pot 13 ways. Though I might have a 14th 'entry' consisting of all the race promoters/tracks, since they take a bath on sanction fees.

#30 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 24 October 2012 - 17:51

England-based F1 teams have the obligation to file their year accounts at the London Company House.
This gives us some insight into the level of spending at these teams.
The following has been reported by AMuS:

  • Red Bull Racing - 207 million euros (42 million euros more than in the 2010 season).
  • Mercedes - 145 million euros (almost 100 million euros less than Red Bull).
  • Lotus - 155 million euros.
  • Williams - 111 million euros.
McLaren figures are yet to come out.

Appallingly low spending by Mercedes.


Is information on data sharing between STR and RBR known (that is, if any)? Based on having the same owner, and STR is admittedly a (driver) development team for RBR, I think the question is then legitimate one. (Intangible benefits not included in their budget that was submitted).

Edited by Sakae, 24 October 2012 - 17:54.


#31 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 October 2012 - 17:59

FOM's only interest is to give Bernie and CVC as much cash as they can grab their hands on. And apparently as it is for the next concorde agreement Bernie and co want to increase their share even further at the expense of the teams.

The truth is FOM should be run non-profit in terms of itself (i.e: paycheques to Bernie and CVC) and all the earnings should go towards the teams. It's absurd how much Bernie and CVC take out of the sport.

You are absolutely right. But you are making too much sense! :) F1 is FIA's series. Ecclestone's company got a 100 year contract to it during the 80s/90s commercialization efforts. So, teams are not able to get what they want like you say. An alternative to that would be to form their own breakaway series. They don't want to/can't do that. So.. Technically even today the teams can bargain the share they think they can push with the alternative of forming a breakaway series or something. They dictated lot of things that way in 2009. So, let's see.

#32 King Six

King Six
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 24 October 2012 - 18:18

I wonder what the figures are in terms of how much Bernie/CVC get vs how much the teams get. I remember reading somewhere it was something like 50/50 but I don't know. It should be more like 20/80 to the teams at the least. Sure, FOM does things like logistics, but the teams can do that themselves if they had the extra cash.

#33 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 24 October 2012 - 21:04

Yep, teams are getting screwed over like crazy by FOM. Though, they can only blame themselves by not staying together in FOTA and signing deals with Bernie on their own (cough cough Ferrari cough). They deserve it by being greedy idiots.