87 replies to this topic

[desmo]

I'm hesitant to comment on the cutaway as I don't want to be unkind but yes, it isn't a Tony Matthews, that's for sure. It's a shame GM couldn't find the executive couch change to get it done right, this is a significant iteration of one of the true icons of modern industrial design.

[Tony Matthews]

I feel a lttle awkward about it, too. However, as David Kimble was uneccessarily dismissive of my work some time ago, I can live with it. What goes round, comes round, and I don't have to nice all the time, do I?

[NTSOS]

I feel a lttle awkward about it, too. However, as David Kimble was uneccessarily dismissive of my work some time ago, I can live with it. What goes round, comes round, and I don't have to nice all the time, do I?

Well......nah, of course you don't!

Juanito

[Magoo]

To me it's the difference between a perfectly good mechanical drawing and a real work of art.

One is sort of cartoonish or schematic while the other borders on photorealism, has the look and feel of metal. It's a machine. You want to oil it.

EDIT: I'm not saying they're not both really, really good. I am saying that one is objectively better.

Edited by Magoo, 05 November 2012 - 18:33.

[Grumbles]

When you see them together like that the difference is striking. There's something about the perspective of the camshaft in the Kimble drawing that doesn't look quite right. Having said that he has infinitely more talent than I could ever hope for so I feel like a bit of a git in being critical of it. As for Tony's work, it's simply stunning. I especially love his pencil drawings.

Edited by Grumbles, 05 November 2012 - 20:25.

[Canuck]

All of Tony's work that showed up here in various guises were what prompted my acquisition of Wright's Ferrari F1 book. I can't actually read, I just like to daydream at the pictures.

[MatsNorway]

Kimble has a line around most of the things, it makes the countours simpler to see. Its a sort of simplification for illustrative purposes. Or a time saver.. i found the valves to be odd looking.
that said the LT1 drawing is sharp, bright and crisp who i am a sucker for but its not as realistic.

LT1 the picture is in 2048 x 1638 pixels.

Tonys Ilmore is 1457 × 1428

Tony do you have a good scanner? i struggle to find a really high res picture of your drawings. bigger than 1600 x 1200.

I think this scan/picture looks to be better than most of the ones i find.
http://www.marchives... March Alfa.jpg

[Tony Matthews]

Kimble has a line around most of the things, it makes the countours simpler to see. Its a sort of simplification for illustrative purposes. Or a time saver.. i found the valves to be odd looking.
that said the LT1 drawing is sharp, bright and crisp who i am a sucker for but its not as realistic.

Quite right, Mat - I don't want to turn this into thread about technical illustration, but briefly, it is a case of two very different techniques. One is drawn in ink line on film, then airbrushed on the back so the lines take precedence, the other is drawn on water-colour board then painted, so all the lines are hidden. GM are obviously happy with the former, I couldn't stand doing it that way, but there isn't a best way, just different ways.

LT1 the picture is in 2048 x 1638 pixels.

Tonys Ilmore is 1457 × 1428

Tony do you have a good scanner? i struggle to find a really high res picture of your drawings. bigger than 1600 x 1200.

I think this scan/picture looks to be better than most of the ones i find.
http://www.marchives... March Alfa.jpg

There is a difference in resolution because the LT1 engine illustration was commissioned by GM to be used as advertising material - they paid for it and can/should use it as much as possible to get 'value' from it. Mine, apart from those that are not my copyright, should be bringing in some little extra income. Obviously, if everyone just downloads hi-res images and prints them, I lose out. The resolution chosen for Mac's Motor City Garage (say it loud and say it proud) is a compromise between what people want, and what we think they should get! The commercial scans that I have are nearly 300MB, reduced to about 100 MB when the background is removed.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 06 November 2012 - 08:27.

[MatsNorway]

I was expecting it to be a business reason. Who is understandable.

The assembly video of the LT1 had a few CAD bugs. most noticable was a pin in the bottom doing some dancing.

The motor seems to have been made completely with Autodesk products.

[gruntguru]

I was going to say, the Kimble looks like a rendered CAD drawing.

[Magoo]

Tonys Ilmore is 1457 × 1428

Tony do you have a good scanner? i struggle to find a really high res picture of your drawings. bigger than 1600 x 1200.

For the images at Mac's Motor City Garage, that's all me. Tony provides fairly enormous files and I scale them down.

I've selected the resolution to be large enough for folks online to be able to take everything in, but too small to be downloaded and commercially pirated by unscrupulous paper printing houses. The resolution we use still produces a larger image than could be found in a paper magazine double-trucked (opened two pages wide) and is more than sufficient for use as wallpaper/screensaver.

File size for speedy browsing is also a consideration. We also try to keep in mind that the story is viewed on everything from smartphones to 40-inch flat panel monitors... and one can easily adjust the image/page size in one's browser as well. You don't have to look at it in the size we gave you, whatever that is.

[Tony Matthews]

I notice that my earlier post gives the impression that the resolution used at MCG was a joint decision, in fact I had no say in the actual numbers, only expressed a mild concern. I'm happy. Well, not delirious, that would take a lottery win, but pleased with the result. Pleased, and proud to be involved.

Edited by Tony Matthews, 06 November 2012 - 12:36.

[Magoo]

I don't wish any credit, only the blame.

[GreenMachine]

I don't wish any credit, only the blame.

I am sure you will be very happy.

If helps, I could get you to carry the can for a couple of my stuff-ups ...

[Magoo]

I am sure you will be very happy.

If helps, I could get you to carry the can for a couple of my stuff-ups ...

Happy to. It's what I do, essentially... seek out colossal ****-ups and run directly into the middle of them.

[flacoman]

Interesting how the piston crown is used to generate swirl, looks like Micheal May's Fireball head in reverse

[gruntguru]

Yes, with a compact combustion chamber focused on the exhaust valve. Its the sort of thing designers end up with when they can't do a pent-roof.

[Canuck]

The first word that comes to mind when I look to describe Kimble's work is cartoon. I don't know why.

I don't want to sound dismissive because I'm a huge fan when it comes to (our) Tony's (our Tony - I like that - we claim this Tony in the name of sarcasm, wit and talent, go find your own) work. Having said that, I agree that his methods are unlikely to survive the passage of time if for no other reason than the demand for product right now. There is no reason though that an equally talented CAD / rendering monkey cannot create a virtual duplicate of his style. To write them all off as talentless hacks seems both presumptuous and somewhat Luddite. I'm not certain how one would imbue it with art and passion, but then I don't claim to be even a poorly talented CAD monkey.

Tony - is there somewhere that you offer your art to buyers today?

[Tony Matthews]

Tony - is there somewhere that you offer your art to buyers today?

Yes - tea and sympathy. Oops, I read that as 'something'! Print sales is a minefield, no-one has made a fortune out of marketing my work as prints, and on the two occasions that I was persuaded to do it myself, I lost money. But you never know...

There is a lot of work in a Dave Kimble illustration, the line art has to be drawn (there may be some CAD help, but there used not to be, and still may not be) and the colour has to be airbrushed. I am unworthy of most of the kindness shown here, and one thing I learned A Long Time Ago is that when it comes to technical illustration, or automotive and aviation art, some people's judgement is clouded by their love for the subject. However, I hope my passion for the vehicles and engines that I've cut away, and my admiration for the engineers, shines through.

[seldo]

Yes - tea and sympathy. Oops, I read that as 'something'! Print sales is a minefield, no-one has made a fortune out of marketing my work as prints, and on the two occasions that I was persuaded to do it myself, I lost money. But you never know...

There is a lot of work in a Dave Kimble illustration, the line art has to be drawn (there may be some CAD help, but there used not to be, and still may not be) and the colour has to be airbrushed. I am unworthy of most of the kindness shown here, and one thing I learned A Long Time Ago is that when it comes to technical illustration, or automotive and aviation art, some people's judgement is clouded by their love for the subject. However, I hope my passion for the vehicles and engines that I've cut away, and my admiration for the engineers, shines through.

Ahh Tony - you are too modest...

[JacnGille]

I am unworthy of most of the kindness shown here,...

Hardly!

[Powersteer]

Whoever did that drawing could not get the piston top angles correct and the exhaust intake valve size is beyong F1 stuff.

[MatsNorway]

Whoever did that drawing could not get the piston top angles correct

Is it kinda leaning towards us too much?

You can prove this?

[Powersteer]

Where the valves seat on the pistons, on Kimble's drawing looks more like a dome than a pocket and I doubt that exhaust intake valve ratio is acceptable unless they want to run longer lift duration exhaust. Comparing the two drawings, Kimble is showing off Tony Matthews don't need to.

[Powersteer]

Kimble sharp with a lot of lines, Matthew's smooth. There is feel to Matthew's work. Kimble's sharpness also exaggerate his mistakes. I'd say I would have Matthews work on a hard back but Kimble certain good for a 'basic' book, bling! bling!

[Magoo]

Really, Tony's other accomplishments pale in comparison to his recent work on behalf of that great British dish, cauliflower and cheese. Until now, Americans just haven't known what they were missing. Upon his gentle and persuasive urging I tried it and I am thereby forever in his debt. The brief for cauliflower and cheese: every bit as delicious as the great American comfort food, macaroni and cheese, but with a nice healthy garden vegetable substituted for all those dreadful pasta carbs. Good, and good for you! Additionally, endless spice and variety can be introduced in the form of bacon, ham, gourmet cheeses, etc. Try it fellow yanks, you won't be sorry. Tony Matthews: artist, raconteur, friend of vegetables.

[Tony Matthews]

And quartered hard-boiled egg, that goes well in cauliflower cheese. I some times think that cauliflower is a bit like a soup stone. That is an illustrator's perspective on it.

[slucas]

What's a soup stone like? Does it make you dizzy and craving for "tater chips" ?

[Tony Matthews]

[gruntguru]

Where the valves seat on the pistons, on Kimble's drawing looks more like a dome than a pocket and I doubt that exhaust intake valve ratio is acceptable unless they want to run longer lift duration exhaust.

Are you seeing the pocket as a dome or the dome as a dome? Personally I see the pocket as a pocket and the dome as a dome.

Edited by gruntguru, 17 November 2012 - 04:05.

[Magoo]

[gruntguru]

Damm. I was seeing that pocket as a dome!

[MatsNorway]

I too had the shape wrong.

i feel silly. But now the shape makes more sense.

But could someone tell me why they still angle the valves? surely they could have made them straighter?

Angling towards center is easier to understand because it leaves more space towards the wall when the valve goes. but not sideways.

Edited by MatsNorway, 17 November 2012 - 17:48.

[Tony Matthews]

I have to agree that it is not as clear as it should be. It isn't always easy to show exact contours, but it isn't helped by the technique used, where both internal and external edges/corners are shown as a black line.

[gruntguru]

But could someone tell me why they still angle the valves?

To make the ports straighter while keeping the intake manifold low I guess. Also allows a more compact rocker since it is only turning the force 160 odd degrees rather than 180.

[carlt]

Roughly speaking, a U.S. gallon is a so-called wine gallon while an Imperial gallon is a so-called ale gallon. Both countries were once on the wine gallon but in the early 19th century Britain adopted the ale gallon, as I understand it.

we couldn't stand the constant whining from the colonies

[Magoo]

I too had the shape wrong.

i feel silly. But now the shape makes more sense.

But could someone tell me why they still angle the valves? surely they could have made them straighter?

Angling towards center is easier to understand because it leaves more space towards the wall when the valve goes. but not sideways.

Is there a particular benefit to making the valve parallel to the bore?

[Magoo]

I have to agree that it is not as clear as it should be. It isn't always easy to show exact contours, but it isn't helped by the technique used, where both internal and external edges/corners are shown as a black line.

Even in the photo above, I tweaked the contrast way up to make the reliefs more evident. Depending on the angle, the relief can turn inside out and look like a bas relief. Another photographic illusion.