52 replies to this topic

[BrokenBaculum]

Having watched the practice sessions of the Indian GP, a question formed in my mind:

Now that the circus is travelling to more South-East Asian countries, is a lack of colour (i.e the smoggy skies and grey circuits) detracting from the overall viewing experience of Formula One races?

This may sound a little weird, but whenever someone mentions a GP, I think in colours. Silverstone, for instance, is blue. Melbourne is green. Malaysia is turquoise, and so on. I appreciate that this may subliminally apply to the nation's flag, race sponsor and so on.

This quirk doesn't apply to all the races, and some share the same "colours", but China, Korea, and India are grey and dull, and this dampens the thrill of the race for me, despite attempts by the organisers to brighten up the tracks' surroundings.

Contrast those three races to Monza, Canada, and the former Austrian GP at the A1-Ring - beautiful circuits surrounded by colours, blue skies (mostly) and greenery. These features in turn heighten the viewing experience on TV.

I'm interested to know whether anyone else feels this way, and/or you dislike having that mist lingering above the circuits.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't think it is, but I have always wondered why Suzuka doesn't look more 'pretty'. It's always late in the year and late in the day so the lighting is rubbish, but as you say it(and Korea) looks hazy.

[Ravenak]

Interesting comment, I guess I must have felt the same at times.

But what really has impact on the ratings, is how famous a circuit is. If the Chinese Grand Prix had existed for 60 years like Monza, then you would consider it as a classic.

That's also why you like Malaysia, because it's been around for a while, although it isn't any less "grey" than the new circuits.

[Ravenak]

I don't think it is, but I have always wondered why Suzuka doesn't look more 'pretty'. It's always late in the year and late in the day so the lighting is rubbish, but as you say it(and Korea) looks hazy.

One of the reasons for this is that Suzuka has always been filmed through Fuji TV's lense (until 2012). They have always done things differently to occidental producers.

[GSiebert]

That's also why you like Malaysia, because it's been around for a while, although it isn't any less "grey" than the new circuits.

I think you're wrong, Sepang must be the only colorful modern track.

[Ravenak]

That's only because there is grass...

Replace the grass by asphalt and gravel and reconsider

[johnmhinds]

Probably doesn't really help that there are massive tarmac run off areas around all the new tracks, pushing the colorful advertising way off into the peripherally.

Add in that the track side advertising seems to be pretty standard across all the races now, mostly bland red, yellow and blue sponsors around the tracks, nothing that really stands out from race to race anyway.

[GSiebert]

That's only because there is grass...

Replace the grass by asphalt and gravel and reconsider

Not only grass but hills, trees, gravel ... It gives a natural look to the track, rather than just being a giant parking lot with grandstands made of steel and plastic.

[sailor]

Silverstone = blue?? how come ?

It looks a worse shade to grey to be really honest

Best circuit look wise has to be Abu Dhabi in modern ones and Spa in the classics.

And generally the modern tilke mammoths like Malaysia , India & China look much better than most of the classics other than Spa & Suzuka

Edited by sailor, 26 October 2012 - 13:14.

[BrokenBaculum]

Silverstone = blue?? how come ?

It looks a worse shade to grey to be really honest

Erm, I don't know in all honesty, it's just one of those things. It may have something to do with the Union Flags that are around the circuit, and also the Silverstone branding of the blue, red and white.

[Ravenak]

Probably doesn't really help that there are massive tarmac run off areas around all the new tracks, pushing the colorful advertising way off into the peripherally.

It's a pity we have now to rely on ADVERTISEMENT to judge a track's looks... Says a lot about the current state of F1, really!

Also, please watch this (for the 10000000 time ) : www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nxwn3OHkEw

... and tell me you don't like it because it's not colourful

Edited by Ravenak, 26 October 2012 - 13:16.

[johnmhinds]

It's a pity we have now to rely on ADVERTISEMENT to judge a track's looks... Says a lot about the current state of F1, really!

Also, please watch this (for the 10000000 time ) : www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nxwn3OHkEw

... and tell me you don't like it because it's not colourful

The thread is about how colourful tracks are though, not how good they are for racing...

As fun as Dijon looks to drive it's also bland as heck in that video with the almost uniformly grey crash barriers and white curbs.

[Alfisti]

100% agree that it hurts the viewing experience. There's no comparing the grey, dirty, bland looking India/Korea/Bahrain/Malaysia/China etc with the brighter/greener races in Melbourne, Montreal etc.

Malaysia should be better but it's always overcast.

[r4mses]

Having watched the practice sessions of the Indian GP, a question formed in my mind:

Now that the circus is travelling to more South-East Asian countries, is a lack of colour (i.e the smoggy skies and grey circuits) detracting from the overall viewing experience of Formula One races?

[...]

Yes.

When I'm watching a GP race, I want them to race along side individual and colorful landmarks(?) - the forests of Spa/Hockenheim/Monza, the lake and river in Melbourne/Montreal, the ups and downs at Nürburgring/A1 Ring/Interlagos surrounded in GREEN.

All those new tracks in the Middle East and Asia look boring, the same and dull - tarmac, sand, tarmac, sand, tarmac, sand... and occasionally a single palm tree they somehow forgot to fell.

Edited by r4mses, 26 October 2012 - 13:34.

[Ravenak]

The thread is about how colourful tracks are though, not how good they are for racing...

As fun as Dijon looks to drive it's also bland as heck in that video with the almost uniformly grey crash barriers and white curbs.

I still think it's a huge fancy: in the 60s/70s, all the tracks looked grey because of their lack of infrastructure. And people were still able to enjoy the racing.

It's just people being greedy and always wanting more.

Jeez, it's still amazing cars going around amazing race tracks, I don't need colourful ADS on the side of the track and hills and whatnot.

[Nahnever]

This 'Jaundiced' look that the Indian GP seems to have is really off-putting. It takes the colour, speed and Magic out of the cars.

[GSiebert]

in the 60s/70s, all the tracks looked grey

Sure

[goingthedistance]

Yeah the haze, particularly in the morning, makes it a bit tougher than usual to make things out. More than anything I just feel bad that people live with that air quality.

In terms of a lack of colour, I at first interpreted your post as a lack of personality, both in the paddock and in the coverage (Sky). Both of these are issues for me. I do find things to corporate, too dull. I also find that Sky's coverage is very pedestrian, and lacks heart. It's all surface stuff, I find myself not very interested in their background pieces. BBC have the clear edge for me, in that they don't talk down at their viewers and there is a very difficult to put into words quality about their coverage that simply engages me more. I do hope that the BBC continue to participate in the coverage next year. For my part I'm going to find a way to stream the BBC radio over the top of the Sky images for the rest of the season.

[V8 Fireworks]

Now that the circus is travelling to more South-East Asian countries, is a lack of colour (i.e the smoggy skies and grey circuits) detracting from the overall viewing experience of Formula One races?

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, I am sorry to say.

The fact is huge metropolis of multi-millions DO exist.* Yes, many days the inversion occurs and the pollution is trapped causing a smoggy sky.

However, the fact is that these cars he pollution causing motor vehicles are very often thousands and thousands of Mercedes-Benzs, Renaults (Nissans at least) and even a surprisingly large number of Ferraris ! Therefore bluntly the races will go and that is that.

Blame the FIA for abolishing the European championship instead of creating the world championship separately if you must.

*For a country dweller used to living on a hobby farm in strolling distance to a beach in a town with one local shop, one school and a bar they are indeed dreadful place.. although London is also a crowded metropolis just without as many skyscrapers, but still liberal measures of traffic jams and folks crammed into uninspiring cramped terrace homes!


The crappiness of Tilke circuits is a separate issue really. There a plently of great, colourful and wildly unsafe street circuits such as Macau available if Bernie should wish!

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 26 October 2012 - 13:48.

[Ravenak]

Sure

[img]https://fbcdn-sphoto...3_2424168_n.jpg[/img

[img]https://fbcdn-sphoto...3_1655591_n.jpg[/img

[img]https://fbcdn-sphoto...3_4351113_n.jpg[/img

[img]https://fbcdn-sphoto...13_724208_n.jpg[/img

[img]https://fbcdn-sphoto...13_219653_n.jpg[/img

That's highly saturated and contrasted pictures. I could go back to the "real feel" in a few minutes with Photoshop...

We're talking TV here.

Edited by Ravenak, 26 October 2012 - 13:46.

[Ravenak]

However, the fact is that these cars he pollution causing motor vehicles are very often thousands and thousands of Mercedes-Benzs, Renaults (Nissans at least) and even a surprisingly large number of Ferraris ! Therefore bluntly the races will go and that is that.

Plain wrong. Have you been to Korea? It's more than 99% Korean cars.

By the way, I was in Yeongam 2 weeks ago and I thought the landscape was beautiful there.

[GSiebert]

I could go back to the "real feel" in a few minutes with Photoshop...

Please do, you'll still get something better than any of the modern track.

[johnmhinds]

As much as people are ragging on new tracks it's nice to see the Circuit of the Americas track is trying something unique with the paint over the tarmac run off areas.

[V8 Fireworks]

Plain wrong. Have you been to Korea? It's more than 99% Korean cars.

I'm sorry.

Korean is an exception perhaps.

To my understanding the Chinese factories of BMW and Mercedes churn out very large volumes of motor cars, which are very very common on the roads.

Chinese "home brands" are quite rare in fact, I guess as the very numerous wealthy Chinese would rather have a prestige German badge while the masses would tend to stick to brands like Volkswagen or Chevrolet or Japanese brands (assuming they will not be attacked by rioters).

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 26 October 2012 - 13:58.

[Ravenak]

Please do, you'll still get something better than any of the modern track.

I'm not defending the modern tracks, I don't really like them either. On this playlist, I'm driving on the Korean circuit (agreed, by night, but I still got the feel of its conception): http://www.youtube.c...nIjrI3jguQzM1SL

... and I say I don't even know the layout because I didn't bother to learn it, since I think it's pretty boring.

What I'm really saying, is that the "colour" pretense is an excuse for people who are never happy. Those tracks will probably evolve in the right direction if they can get more affluence in the future. It takes time.

Edited by Ravenak, 26 October 2012 - 13:57.

[PayasYouRace]

I'm sure this is all down to perception.

Is Monaco colourful and vibrant? Or is it a mass of grey armco/track/buildings with white yachts and a bit of water? Probably depends on whether the sun is out too.

Those pictures from the 1970s (thanks GSiebert ) are wonderful, and really capture the colour of what is often only seen in black & white. While the colours are probably forced a bit by the kind of photography, I'm sure they fit into a lot of people's memories of those events.

[Jimisgod]

Having watched the practice sessions of the Indian GP, a question formed in my mind:

Now that the circus is travelling to more South-East Asian countries, is a lack of colour (i.e the smoggy skies and grey circuits) detracting from the overall viewing experience of Formula One races?

Build one in Cambodia or Laos or even Thailand and race there in December or January and you won't have a cloudy or wet race for 100 years. Insular SE Asia is harder, but generally around July or August or September there is sunshine most of the month.

India is just near Delhi and Shanghai is near... yes, so of course there is smog. They're massive polluted cities.

The problem is that instead of having native forest right up to the track or patches of green grass like in Europe, it's mostly carpark tarmac. Hockenheim is dismal like that nowawdays, too. And the new Silverstone is no better either.

[Jimisgod]

Sure

Holy hell where is that!

[Ross Stonefeld]

Monza on the way to Parabolica

[Jimisgod]

Monza on the way to Parabolica

I guessed Monza by the Italian flag, but never ever seen those mountains before.

[Ravenak]

And just to show that on site, it's somewhat colourful, 2 pictures I took on Thursday:





There is potential. They are putting grass everywhere, you have the coloured marks on the track, they just need didn't build all the infrastructures they initially wanted.

+ it's a TV problem, I think.

[Alfisti]

Colour is not just actual colour, it's a combination of the landscape or being part of a vibrant, energetic city etc. The modern tracks seemed plonked into the middle of nowhere and the generally crappy weather in these areas doesn't help.

How anyone can watch Montreal or Melbourne and say they don't look any better and more enjoyable on TV than China or Korea is beyond me. You wan tto get on a plane and go to Melbourne or go eat some poutine ...... i cannot see that happening in the drab looking modern locations.

[Buttoneer]

We had a thread a couple of years ago which discussed the same sort of question, although essentially the point was that to look at a track it could have been anywhere in the world with nothing to make it particularly stand out as typical or appertaining to the country in which it was located.

I think the point was that the Bahrain circuit should have been very obviously in a desert with sand dunes and a paddock which looked like a bedouin tent, China should have blue & white porcelain outbuildings and the Circuit of the Americas should have a grandstand shaped like a stetson hat. Or something.

I would recognise Spa, Monza, Monaco and Melbourne from many angles, I'm sure, but Turkey, Korea, etc not so much.

So I'm not seeing the colours, or lamenting the lack of them, but I do agree that I like my circuits to be distinctive and recognisable but perhaps it does come with age and familiarity rather than design?

[Jimisgod]

Colour is not just actual colour, it's a combination of the landscape or being part of a vibrant, energetic city etc. The modern tracks seemed plonked into the middle of nowhere and the generally crappy weather in these areas doesn't help.

How anyone can watch Montreal or Melbourne and say they don't look any better and more enjoyable on TV than China or Korea is beyond me. You wan tto get on a plane and go to Melbourne or go eat some poutine ...... i cannot see that happening in the drab looking modern locations.

This. Judging by where Monza is, I could tell you a few places in Asia where you could put tracks and outdo even Austria or whatever for scenery and gradient changes. But a modern track isn't just a scenic drive anymore, it's a massive carpark like thing that covers the entire landscape, for safety reasons. Therefore they wind up in open fields or useless lands that happen to be within distance of a major centre. I would not want something like that ruining a nice landscape, so maybe it's a good thing.

The "open road" circuit with a few houses alongside is pretty much dead. They either closed or were converted into "permanent circuits" like Spa or Bathurst (almost). Or you get "concrete canyon" street circuits like Singapore, or "parklands" circuits like Australia where the land is already a park and you work around that. Modern circuits require huge spaces and most of those nowadays are in areas that aren't of great aesthetic quality.

So I'm not seeing the colours, or lamenting the lack of them, but I do agree that I like my circuits to be distinctive and recognisable but perhaps it does come with age and familiarity rather than design?

Nope. I'm young enough to have only started following when the first of these new circuits were entering F1. Aside from the fist corner of Bahrain, which I remember because it is tight, the rest I have no idea. I can't recall any of Abu Dhabi, India also, and I can only think of bits of Korea because it happened last week. Valencia is just too frustratingly long to drive on any game and only the corner after the bridge sticks in my mind. Familiarity comes from liking the look of them.

There are too many corners that blend into nothing on the modern tracks, and so many are interchangeable, not just because of how he cars take them, but because they are all surrounded by 10km of tarmac.

Edited by Jimisgod, 26 October 2012 - 14:41.

[GSiebert]

Speaking of landscapes, nothing beats Phillip Island

[muramasa]

some talks about haze, but haze doesnt mean pollution, at least for Suzuka and Korea when it's ever hazy there it's not because of pollution.

As Ravenak said, yeongam and the whole surrounding region is beautiful. I havent been there but I can tell that for sure by pics and infos available out there. It's just that they havent made most out of it to build the circuit.

I dont know about Shanghai and Buddh, maybe pollution is bigger issue there, as even in Tokyo and Osaka it's still a major issue, but dont forget that for many parts of Asia incl Japan and Korea, haze is part of nature charm.

[goingthedistance]

some talks about haze, but haze doesnt mean pollution, at least for Suzuka and Korea when it's ever hazy there it's not because of pollution.

As Ravenak said, yeongam and the whole surrounding region is beautiful. I havent been there but I can tell that for sure by pics and infos available out there. It's just that they havent made most out of it to build the circuit.

I dont know about Shanghai and Buddh, maybe pollution is bigger issue there, as even in Tokyo and Osaka it's still a major issue, but dont forget that for many parts of Asia incl Japan and Korea, haze is part of nature charm.

In Korea perhaps, that looks different. But there is a serious air quality issue in Indian cities.


"Delhiites are breathing poison. If you thought CNG had made the Capital's air cleaner, then it's time for a reality check. The alarming pollution levels have blackened Delhi's air to such an extent that it ranks alongside coal town Jharia and unregulated industrial hubs like Ludhiana, Raipur and Kanpur.

And it's the ever-increasing numbers of diesel-guzzling passenger cars and trucks plying unregulated on the city's roads that are largely to blame for the situation.

Before you dismiss it as an alarmist report of the green lobby, here are some hard facts: The respirable suspended particulate matter (RSPM) in the Capital's air is touching 250 micrograms per cubic meter (ig/ m3), four times the prescribed level, while the concentration of nitrogen oxide (NOx) is 50-55 ig/ m3 - way above the permissible upper limit of 40ig/ m3. If you don't realise, just how alarming the increase is, here are some more figures: the RSPM levels in the Capital in 2005 were 110 ig/ m3 and 154 ig/ m3 in 2007. Needless to say, these pollutants are linked to diseases ranging from bronchitis and asthma to lung infection and birth defects.

http://indiatoday.in...s/1/204286.html

http://india.blogs.n...d-than-beijing/

Edited by goingthedistance, 26 October 2012 - 14:54.

[plumtree]

some talks about haze, but haze doesnt mean pollution, at least for Suzuka and Korea when it's ever hazy there it's not because of pollution.

As Ravenak said, yeongam and the whole surrounding region is beautiful. I havent been there but I can tell that for sure by pics and infos available out there. It's just that they havent made most out of it to build the circuit.

I dont know about Shanghai and Buddh, maybe pollution is bigger issue there, as even in Tokyo and Osaka it's still a major issue, but dont forget that for many parts of Asia incl Japan and Korea, haze is part of nature charm.

Second that. In fact, Mark Sutton said that for the first couple of days of Korean grand prix the weather was wonderful. Also I thought a lot of still pictures from Suzuka weekend were rather beautiful.

I don't deny some of new circuits lack the feels but there are some other factors which is beyond their control. For example, in Yeongam around the time of a year (late autumn) grass is already turning yellow. The late start time (3:00PM local, two hours later than European ones, if you don't count DST) doesn't help the cause either. Around the end of the race the sunlight isn't as plentiful as it was earlier. Then naturally the picture gets less vivid.

Edited by plumtree, 26 October 2012 - 15:06.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I guessed Monza by the Italian flag, but never ever seen those mountains before.

They're called the Alps

[SUPRAF1]

It's funny that we're complaining about smog in a motor racing forum when it's caused by cars .

I think tracks that are clearly defined look prettier in general. Run-off areas seem to detract from the viewing pleasure for me, because it feels like someone went to a car park and put pylons to make a "race track". There's also a "vibe" that's hard to describe associated with GP's like Montreal or Spa which, regardless of whether it's bright and sunny or pouring with rain, is always present. It's not purely limited to classics, as I felt it in Singapore too. You could tell there was a buzz in the air even through the TV. I'm pretty new to F1 so I didn't hold any biases for or against a track.

Greenery is very important too, especially if they have grass instead of tarmac runoff. For me the most beautiful picture of F1 is the overhead shot of a car going through the post eau-rouge straight, a tiny ribbon of road fringed on either side by the Ardennes. Can't seem to find a picture though

[AlexS]

Now that the circus is travelling to more South-East Asian countries, is a lack of colour (i.e the smoggy skies and grey circuits) detracting from the overall viewing experience of Formula One races?

I feel that way too.

Edited by AlexS, 26 October 2012 - 15:58.

[uffen]

It's funny that we're complaining about smog in a motor racing forum when it's caused by cars .

I think tracks that are clearly defined look prettier in general. Run-off areas seem to detract from the viewing pleasure for me, because it feels like someone went to a car park and put pylons to make a "race track". There's also a "vibe" that's hard to describe associated with GP's like Montreal or Spa which, regardless of whether it's bright and sunny or pouring with rain, is always present. It's not purely limited to classics, as I felt it in Singapore too. You could tell there was a buzz in the air even through the TV. I'm pretty new to F1 so I didn't hold any biases for or against a track.

Greenery is very important too, especially if they have grass instead of tarmac runoff. For me the most beautiful picture of F1 is the overhead shot of a car going through the post eau-rouge straight, a tiny ribbon of road fringed on either side by the Ardennes. Can't seem to find a picture though

To be fair, autos contribute to smog but they are not the whole story. There are industrial sources, rail, marine, air. Visually, a lot depends on how the local landscape handles the air currents - does it keep the smog in a bowl or is it allowed to dispurse.

[fosters35]

I woke early this morning and put FP 1 on and the first thing i thought was how annoying the smog was just like it has been in a couple of races recently.
While it doesnt ruin my viewing, it is annoying and i find myself not watching as much.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't think it's just smog. Suzuka isn't next to Tokyo or anything.

[chdphd]

As much as people are ragging on new tracks it's nice to see the Circuit of the Americas track is trying something unique with the paint over the tarmac run off areas.

Bahrain has been doing this sort of thing for a few years now.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Stars?

[rolf123]

Silverstone is blue??

Either you avidly remember the Fosters sponsorship or you mean the rain. Otherwise, I don't see the blue except for the stripes on the kerbs.

Silverstone is just one flat airfield remember.

[Alfisti]

There's also a "vibe" that's hard to describe associated with GP's like Montreal or Spa which, regardless of whether it's bright and sunny or pouring with rain, is always present.

This. You can feel the good times in Montreal or melbourne, feel the history in Spa or Monza, you can sense the money in Monaco etc. India? Korea? China. Bleh.

[sesku]

This may sound a little weird, but whenever someone mentions a GP, I think in colours. Silverstone, for instance, is blue. Melbourne is green. Malaysia is turquoise, and so on. I appreciate that this may subliminally apply to the nation's flag, race sponsor and so on.

Haha... I though I am the only one with that weird feeling. I always associate each track with a different colour theme, mostly based on the colour the track kerb and tyre wall especially for the track that exist pre-2002 season. For example:-
Australia/Brazil- Green and gold
Malaysia - White and turquoise
Imola/A1-Ring - Green
Silverstone/Nurburgring- Blue and white
Spain - Red and yellow
Monaco/Montreal - Red and white

Maybe because of the track sponsorship or the colour of the flag of the country.

[Kop Alonso]

I have never really noticed the kerb colours before , except Paul Ricard , where the kerbs were in the colour of the drink branding