12 replies to this topic

[seahawk]

After having read countless pages in countless thread of people trying to find out if one driver is better then the other, I thought about he last 20 years in F1 and realised that most "great drivers" won their titles in cars designed by either Adrian Newey or Rory Byrne. So maybe discussing the drivers is of lesser importance than discussing the designers. Why is it that apart from some random flukes other designers have mostly been able to bring cars, that were just nearly as good as the ones designed by those 2 greats.

[Peter Perfect]

After having read countless pages in countless thread of people trying to find out if one driver is better then the other, I thought about he last 20 years in F1 and realised that most "great drivers" won their titles in cars designed by either Adrian Newey or Rory Byrne. So maybe discussing the drivers is of lesser importance than discussing the designers. Why is it that apart from some random flukes other designers have mostly been able to bring cars, that were just nearly as good as the ones designed by those 2 greats.

Just look at the Hamilton vs Button thread, there's less scope for conspiracy theories with car designers

Honestly though, it does make you wonder what sets those two apart from the others. How much actual design work do they get involved with? Is it that they're better at weighing up which parts of the design are weak and concentrating resources in the right areas?

[Tenmantaylor]

They are masters of improvisation. When people think of engineering they think of maths, physics and long equations. These are important but the gut instinct and creativity to try something in a particular way is what sets Newey apart from the rest. Creativity and pragmatism trump science in this respect. Remember when McLaren realised their octupus exhaust system was shite and just decided to copy Newey?

[BetaVersion]

After having read countless pages in countless thread of people trying to find out if one driver is better then the other, I thought about he last 20 years in F1 and realised that most "great drivers" won their titles in cars designed by either Adrian Newey or Rory Byrne. So maybe discussing the drivers is of lesser importance than discussing the designers. Why is it that apart from some random flukes other designers have mostly been able to bring cars, that were just nearly as good as the ones designed by those 2 greats.

"Designer" is a vague terminology in here. "Newey and Byrne" is like "Apples and Oranges", if you know this expression.

Adrian is a top aerodynamicist, while Byrne is nothing related to aerodynamics.

The thing is not about "designers" individually. But the best group of engineers who provide the best car to the WDC most of the times. And this have ALWAYS been the case in F1.

The car always mattered way more than the driver and always will untill F1 remains a non-spec series.

Byrne was in Ferrari many years and Ferrari lost tittles in many of those years. It's was not him that made this lot of difference but the aero guys together with a good engine group and etc.....

Edited by BetaVersion, 26 October 2012 - 20:51.

[Tenmantaylor]

The car always mattered way more than the driver and always will untill F1 remains a non-spec series.

How often do team mates finish next to each other in the WDC?

[oetzi]

How often do team mates finish next to each other in the WDC?

I was just about to ask, how may times have teammates both managed to win a championship in either designer's cars? (Not in the same year, obviously.)

[BigCHrome]

They are masters of improvisation. When people think of engineering they think of maths, physics and long equations. These are important but the gut instinct and creativity to try something in a particular way is what sets Newey apart from the rest. Creativity and pragmatism trump science in this respect. Remember when McLaren realised their octupus exhaust system was shite and just decided to copy Newey?

They didn't copy the RBR exhaust system just because it was designed by Newey. Considering how well it worked, I'm sure they had done some research on it over the winter.

[SCUDmissile]

Ironically, Newey isn't the chief designer of these RB's
That is Rob Marshall, also designer/important cog iirc in the Renault's of Alonso's days.

There is a lot of talent at every team, but it seems RBR have a super team right now of aero guys who are working very well together.

[JSDSKI]

Byrne, Brawn, Fry are brilliant engineers.

Newey is a brilliant artist. He's an excellent aero guy and problem solver - but it's his eye that pushes him to the top.

[GotYoubyTheBalls]

The Brawn myth has been de-bunked. He is no good. I think Merc have begun to realise this.

[MP422]

Byrne, Brawn, Fry are brilliant engineers.

Newey is a brilliant artist. He's an excellent aero guy and problem solver - but it's his eye that pushes him to the top.

I'd give the nod to James Allison, Paddy Lowe, Tim Goss, and Nicolas Tombazis as well.

Edited by MP422, 27 October 2012 - 03:00.

[seahawk]

"Designer" is a vague terminology in here. "Newey and Byrne" is like "Apples and Oranges", if you know this expression.

Adrian is a top aerodynamicist, while Byrne is nothing related to aerodynamics.

The thing is not about "designers" individually. But the best group of engineers who provide the best car to the WDC most of the times. And this have ALWAYS been the case in F1.

The car always mattered way more than the driver and always will untill F1 remains a non-spec series.

Byrne was in Ferrari many years and Ferrari lost tittles in many of those years. It's was not him that made this lot of difference but the aero guys together with a good engine group and etc.....

I would say that Byrne´s stay at Ferrari from 1997 to 2004 did not see many years in which his cars lost many titles and even then he mostly lost to cars designed by Adrian Newey. Logic also tells me that a good development team should always come out on top, but looking at the results those 2 giys come out on top quite often, regardless of the team they are working for. I wonder why.

[KnucklesAgain]

This could be a very interesting thread if we knew more about what's actually going on.
At least with drivers people *think* they can see enough on track to form a opinion (whether that's actually true or not)