519 replies to this topic

[Ferrari2183]

Of course it does, what some have to realise though is that it doesn't emanate from the bottoms of either Fernando, or Lewis.

Oh I agree, but as I said it is asinine to deny that Newey has been a large part of Vettel's success. I've pointed out, in this very thread, that Alonso was winning the battle when the cars were relatively similar pace wise. Only since Singapore has Vettel been untouchable. Now unless you believe that both Vettel and Webber suddenly raised their games to the effect of 3 easy front row lockouts then I can't understand what the problem is with what Alonso and Hamilton have said.

[apoka]

It is not about downplaying his achievements... Alonso said that he is fighting Vettel and Newey. How exactly is that disrespectful of his achievements?

Well, obviously it suggests that the driver is a less important element in case of Vettel. I don't have an issue with the statement as such, but the mutual Hamilton/Alonso praise is a bit annoying (and of course they can hardly be objective on that matter). What's worse from a forum perspective, however, is the quality of some threads since Vettel is winning.

Also, is Perez the next best thing because he had a stunning drive in Malaysia? As I've said, these anomalies happen. Excuse me for not kicking up a fuss about it...

Vettel had a few stunning drives each year, so it's not exactly an anomaly.To compare Vettel and Perez at that state, you have to ignore what Vettel did in the past 4 years.

[Ferrari2183]

Well, obviously it suggests that the driver is a less important element in case of Vettel. I don't have an issue with the statement as such, but the mutual Hamilton/Alonso praise is a bit annoying (and of course they can hardly be objective on that matter). What's worse from a forum perspective, however, is the quality of some threads since Vettel is winning.

I don't think he's saying the driver is less important in Vettel's case. That's crazy, and of all people Alonso should know better. I think Alonso is saying that once again Newey has given Vettel a dominant car in the last few races because previously he was challenging them and beating them. To me it seems the problem is that Alonso and Hamilton rate each highly in which case this becomes a fan insecurity problem and not so much what the drivers have said.

Vettel had a few stunning drives each year, so it's not exactly an anomaly.To compare Vettel and Perez at that state, you have to ignore what Vettel did in the past 4 years.

This is correct but subsequent to 2008 Vettel has been in championship contending/winning cars. If he didn't have stunning drives in each year then it would be worrying. Anyway, what I was implying is that Vettel's drive in Monza 2008 can be likened to Perez' drive in Malaysia 2012 in that it was an anomaly. I don't think either performance proves anything and bringing it up is pointless.

[mnmracer]

What's all this about Monza 2008? As if it is going to convince people that Vettel can win in relatively poor material. I have news for you... Even the sun shines on a dogs ass every now and then.

I can pick out quite a few drivers who have won wet races or put in magnificent performances when they really shouldn't have been close but the point I think Alonso, especially, is making is that prior to Newey's package revamp when things between the cars were close is that he was beating Vettel regularly and now that is distant memory.

Because Ferrari hasn't been upgraded all season...
Double standards again T_T

[Ferrari2183]

Because Ferrari hasn't been upgraded all season...
Double standards again T_T

Why do you put words in my mouth? Nobody said the Ferrari hasn't been upgraded and I don't think anybody implied anything of the sort. Go and ask any F1 pundit if Ferrari had the fastest car at any stage of the season and you will be met with overwhelming consensus. Sure they've had a car capable of challenging but they haven't enjoyed what Red Bull has now.

I think this thread should be renamed to something along the lines of: "Vettel fans envious of the accolades bestowed upon Alonso for his drives this season." Because this is what it is really about. Not Alonso or Hamilton giving Newey credit for his hand in Vettel's success. Which is rather obvious it must be said.

[fastdriver]

Shame, FA and LH must be so frustrated. It takes man AND machine to win a championship. More machine than man but still a combination of the two (maybe 1 or 2 races can be more man than machine, but not championship). It has always been that way, it will always be that way. No need for them to downplay SB's achievement as if he's less deserving than they were when they won.

With that said, why is this thread still going on? And does it really matter who says what. When the year ends whomever win sit will be deserving. And those that don't...well some will sleep just fine while others probably won't.

[RealRacing]

I think this thread should be renamed to something along the lines of: "Vettel fans envious of the accolades bestowed upon Alonso for his drives this season." Because this is what it is really about. Not Alonso or Hamilton giving Newey credit for his hand in Vettel's success. Which is rather obvious it must be said.

What a spectacular example of a fallacy this is! Throw in a distractor: this should really be about "Vettel fans envious of the accolades bestowed upon Alonso for his drives this season", make a sweeping statement: "Which is rather obvious it must be said", while neglecting to discuss the issue at hand. Textbook!

[Ferrari2183]

What a spectacular example of a fallacy this is! Throw in a distractor: this should really be about "Vettel fans envious of the accolades bestowed upon Alonso for his drives this season", make a sweeping statement: "Which is rather obvious it must be said", while neglecting to discuss the issue at hand. Textbook!

Newey's hand in Vettel's success is rather obvious. Or do you, as well, deny that?

And why don't you tell us what the issue is because I for the love of me cannot figure it out. Hamilton and Alonso rate each other highly... I see no problem with that. Newey has been instrumental at getting Vettel to the front... Again, I see nothing wrong with the statement.

Seems the problem is Vettel not being recognised to the same extent and as I've said that is more about fan insecurity than anything Alonso or Hamilton have said.

[fastdriver]

Ok ok ok, I'll be the first to say it: Seb is nowhere as good as LEwis and/or Alonso. He only wins championships when he has a superior car. Alonso and Lewis however managed to win WDCs in inferior cars...oh wait?

[Wolfie]

Ok ok ok, I'll be the first to say it: Seb is nowhere as good as LEwis and/or Alonso. He only wins championships when he has a superior car. Alonso and Lewis however managed to win WDCs in inferior cars...oh wait?

LOL, I'm also resting my case here with this:

Fans at present are debating who is more worthy of winning the title; Alonso has had an extraordinary year dragging results out of a less competitive car, but Vettel kept notching up the points and stayed patient early on when the Red Bull was struggling, then worked with his team to bring the car up to the dominant level it now enjoys. His part in that cannot be underestimated, even if Alonso and many fans dismiss it as all Adrian Newey’s work.


http://www.jamesalle...world-champion/

[jjcale]

LOL, I'm also resting my case here with this:

The redbull has never been "struggling" ... its always either been joint best car with the Macca or second best just behind the Macca. Recently it has become a 2011 style rocketship.

And therefore FA's comments are fair IMO

Edited by jjcale, 01 November 2012 - 17:47.

[Buttoneer]

Once agin, the topic under discussion is this;

Hello..

It might be only me, but does any one else also thinks that Alonso & Hamilton are jealous of Vettel?

Today at Delhi's podium ceremony, Alonso was so hesitant to say it was hard to beat Vettel today, he mentioned Red bull, generally I don't read alot into that, but lately - I can see a trend between Hamilton & Alonso finding it hard to accept how successful Sebastien is.

Last time in Korea after losing Alonso said he is fighting against Adrian Newey, than he says (not sure when) - himself & Hamilton are cut above rest of the field including Vettel, because Vettel has yet to win in a inferior car. Than Hamilton comes out & say Alonso should win title has Vettel has not won in inferior car.

I kind of have sympathy with Alonso & him saying all this as he is working hard & still cannot beat Vettel.

It's about the comments made by these drivers. Please try and stay on topic.

[RealRacing]

Newey's hand in Vettel's success is rather obvious. Or do you, as well, deny that?

And why don't you tell us what the issue is because I for the love of me cannot figure it out. Hamilton and Alonso rate each other highly... I see no problem with that. Newey has been instrumental at getting Vettel to the front... Again, I see nothing wrong with the statement.

Seems the problem is Vettel not being recognised to the same extent and as I've said that is more about fan insecurity than anything Alonso or Hamilton have said.

I think what we are debating here is: are LH and FA right in saying that Vettel's success has to be mostly attributed to his car, or are they saying this unjustly because SV's success is due to a complete package. "Newey's hand in Vettel's success is rather obvious" is not an argument supporting or denying the debate points, it's an absolute statement without backing.

"Seems the problem is Vettel not being recognised to the same extent and as I've said that is more about fan insecurity than anything Alonso or Hamilton have said."

This is also your POV, yet you seem to believe or want people to believe that it is a fact.

[Ferrari2183]

I think what we are debating here is: are LH and FA right in saying that Vettel's success has to be mostly attributed to his car, or are they saying this unjustly because SV's success is due to a complete package. "Newey's hand in Vettel's success is rather obvious" is not an argument supporting or denying the debate points, it's an absolute statement without backing.

"Seems the problem is Vettel not being recognised to the same extent and as I've said that is more about fan insecurity than anything Alonso or Hamilton have said."

This is also your POV, yet you seem to believe or want people to believe that it is a fact.

Well I think that Alonso's statement is self explanatory on the matter. He said that he is fighting Vettel and Newey. As in the package...

Here is the exact quote

"When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth.

"They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

Anyway, I think I will leave this thread now as a new race weekend is about to get under way.

[apoka]

Here is the exact quote [...] "They are first and second in all the races; [...]"

Actually, they were first and second in only one race this season so far. They were both on the podium in 3 out of 17 races.

Anyway, I think I will leave this thread now as a new race weekend is about to get under way.

Yep, I hope for an exciting race despite the track.

Edited by apoka, 01 November 2012 - 18:24.

[RealRacing]

Well I think that Alonso's statement is self explanatory on the matter. He said that he is fighting Vettel and Newey. As in the package...

Here is the exact quote: "When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth.

"They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."



Anyway, I think I will leave this thread now as a new race weekend is about to get under way.

Hmm are you saying that because FA says it, it's true? Because that would be...yet another fallacy. If not, please explain what you mean.

As far as the second quote, Apoka has come out with the facts, which would make Alonso's statement...which leads us to believe he's...

Edited by RealRacing, 01 November 2012 - 18:43.

[fastdriver]

So to paraphrase: Alonso was winning when cars were equal which means he was the difference. Then when someone else wins it's due to having a better car...
?

[showtime]

Q. (Gaetan Vigneron - RTBF) For all you: between Fernando and Sebastian, which is the driver who deserves the title the most, do you think?

VP: I think it's clear, for me, at the moment, today, that the Red Bull car has a big advantage compared to Ferrari. This year, Alonso did a fantastic job from the beginning; he's had a few crashes but all of us know that Ferrari is not on the same pace as Red Bull. It will be difficult for Ferrari but I think Ferrari also has the passion to win and they bring a lot of updates maybe for this weekend or another weekend. I really don't know, but what I can see at the moment is that Red Bull is the quicker car. That's it.

DR: I think he said that quite well. I think this season has been very hard to judge. It's been a very exciting season. I think anything can happen, so even if it is the case that the package of Vettel himself and the car is better at this stage, it doesn't confirm a World Championship. You have to get it done on Sunday and there are still three Sundays to go. Things can happen. I think they both have had their little bit of bad luck this season. I think, for now, they're going to go head-to-toe but yeah, we'll see. Obviously Red Bull's been the car to beat for the last four races or so, but I think the pace is always changing, and Ferrari's obviously got some good experience and some good people behind them, so I'm sure a surprise is not impossible either. See what happens, it's exciting. I would like to be part of it.

CP: Yes, I think maybe Sebastian is in a little bit better position than Fernando right now. From the last few races, they had a little advantage but I think it's still quite open and there are three races left. The championship is still quite close so anything can happen.

KK: For sure, I think Red Bull has the greater advantage but I think the last three races will be quite difficult to judge. At the moment, I think Sebastian has the greater chance but if there's something... if Sebastian misses one race, then I think there is a lot of chance for Fernando. We will see. But at the moment I think Sebastian has more chance.

FM: Well, I think both drivers have had a fantastic championship. I think Fernando did an incredible job up to now, Sebastian as well, especially in the second part of the championship, so I think we are not talking about one guy who has many victories and the other one not. I think we are talking about two drivers one of which will win and who we will say deserved it. But anyway, I hope Fernando will win.

JB: It's a very difficult one to answer. As Felipe said, they have both done a fantastic job this year. You would say that throughout the season, Fernando has been the more consistent. In the last few races, yeah, it's been a great job by Red Bull, but also a great job by Sebastian. He's been given the equipment and he's delivered. You don't win Grands Prix on your own, and you don't win championships on your own, so whoever comes out on top is the driver and the team that deserves to win it.

All jealous

[Ferrari2183]

Actually, they were first and second in only one race this season so far. They were both on the podium in 3 out of 17 races.

You do realise that Alonso's statement was made after qualifying. Red Bull had just come off the back of three straight front row lockouts.

Yep, I hope for an exciting race despite the track.

Indeed.

Hmm are you saying that because FA says it, it's true? Because that would be...yet another fallacy. If not, please explain what you mean.

As far as the second quote, Apoka has come out with the facts, which would make Alonso's statement...which leads us to believe he's...

You being obtuse now. I am not saying that because Alonso says it, it must be true. I'm saying that an uproar is being made of statement which is largely true.

About your second quote... Unfortunately for you what Alonso said about first and second is fact!

[RealRacing]

About your second quote... Unfortunately for you what Alonso said about first and second is fact!

"They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

Just to confirm something: do you believe that this is a fact?

[RealRacing]

All jealous

All fallacies, or, better, fallacies repeated (from you, not the drivers). Go wild http://www.nizkor.or...res/fallacies/...

Edited by RealRacing, 01 November 2012 - 20:03.

[bourbon]

It is not about downplaying his achievements... Alonso said that he is fighting Vettel and Newey. How exactly is that disrespectful of his achievements?

Also, is Perez the next best thing because he had a stunning drive in Malaysia? As I've said, these anomalies happen. Excuse me for not kicking up a fuss about it...

I reckon Perez is the next best big thing. Similarly, it was easy to see that Vettel was. Not only because of Monza 2008, but because of how he drove throughout the entire year in the STRF. Forget about Monza - there are not enough excuses for all of the other stellar races he put in that landed the STRF above the RB car at season's finish - and ALL of the points except 4 were earned by Seb.

The bottom line is that Vettel is very talented. He has a great car. So in this case, driver + car is a brilliant combo at times.

Whether Alonso and Hamilton are jealous is largely immaterial, imo. There are occassions for all drivers, including Vettel, to be jealous of this or that - as in any profession. Right now, the important thing is for all of them to focus on what they are doing.

[Ferrari2183]

"They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

Just to confirm something: do you believe that this is a fact?

Not in all the races for the entire season. What he meant is recently. Again I will quote what he said.

"When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth.

"They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

Operative words being "had" and "now". Stop trying to spin what he said into a dig at Vettel and accept it for what it is.

Is it not fact that Red Bull qualified 1 & 2 in the last three races? Is it not fact that they were running 1 & 2 in the Korea and India races? In Japan Webber got hit by Grosjean at the first corner... Who knows how that would have turned out?

As I said, you're being quite obtuse about this.

[Ferrari2183]

I reckon Perez is the next best big thing. Similarly, it was easy to see that Vettel was. Not only because of Monza 2008, but because of how he drove throughout the entire year in the STRF. Forget about Monza - there are not enough excuses for all of the other stellar races he put in that landed the STRF above the RB car at season's finish - and ALL of the points except 4 were earned by Seb.

The bottom line is that Vettel is very talented. He has a great car. So in this case, driver + car is a brilliant combo at times.

Whether Alonso and Hamilton are jealous is largely immaterial, imo. There are occassions for all drivers, including Vettel, to be jealous of this or that - as in any profession. Right now, the important thing is for all of them to focus on what they are doing.

I can agree with the bolded part and I don't think Alonso is having a dig at Vettel. All he is saying is that now that Newey has weaved his magic both drivers are suddenly right up there when previously it wasn't the case.

I don't share your opinion of Perez and I will leave it at that.

[Sakae]

Of course Alonso is having dig at Vettel; I have no doubts about that.

[KnucklesAgain]

Of course Alonso is having dig at Vettel; I have no doubts about that.

You know better than Seb then:

"Wir respektieren uns beide sehr und schätzen den Umgang miteinander", sagte Vettel. "Manchmal sind die Dinge auch aus dem Zusammenhang gerissen. Der Respekt ist da und das ist das Wichtigste."

"We respect each other a lot and like to interact with each other ["umgang haben" also is "keep company with each other", etc.]", Vettel said. "Sometimes things ar not put in context. There is respect and that's the most important thing"

[KnucklesAgain]

Hmm are you saying that because FA says it, it's true? Because that would be...yet another fallacy. If not, please explain what you mean.

As far as the second quote, Apoka has come out with the facts, which would make Alonso's statement...which leads us to believe he's...

What he is saying is that your premise is wrong. You said "are LH and FA right in saying that Vettel's success has to be mostly attributed to his car", when Alonso didn't. He said "it's not only Sebastian", which is accurate and does not attribute his success "mostly" to the car.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 November 2012 - 21:34.

[RealRacing]

Not in all the races for the entire season. What he meant is recently. Again I will quote what he said.

Operative words being "had" and "now". Stop trying to spin what he said into a dig at Vettel and accept it for what it is.

Is it not fact that Red Bull qualified 1 & 2 in the last three races? Is it not fact that they were running 1 & 2 in the Korea and India races? In Japan Webber got hit by Grosjean at the first corner... Who knows how that would have turned out?

As I said, you're being quite obtuse about this.

Just seeking clarification about what FA meant by "all the races".

Still, as someone has already said, doesn't this seem a dig at SV, or a very arrogant implication about himself: "When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth."They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

When WE (ME and Ferrari) had equal cars WE (ME and Ferrari) were leading the WDC. Now, that they are leading, we are fighting NEWEY. In other words, when WE are winning, it's because of the package, but when THEY are winning, it's only Newey? No wonder this guy came in last in the "what driver do you like best" poll...

[KnucklesAgain]

Just seeking clarification about what FA meant by "all the races".

Still, as someone has already said, doesn't this seem a dig at SV, or a very arrogant implication about himself: "When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth."They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

When WE (ME and Ferrari) had equal cars WE (ME and Ferrari) were leading the WDC. Now, that they are leading, we are fighting NEWEY. In other words, when WE are winning, it's because of the package, but when THEY are winning, it's only Newey? No wonder this guy came in last in the "what driver do you like best" poll...

And once again you invent something that never was said in order to get upset about it.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 November 2012 - 21:43.

[RealRacing]

And once again you invent something that never was said in order to get upset about it.

Instead of "we are fighting NEWEY", the exact words were "we are fighting against a Newey car", is this correct?

[Ferrari2183]

Instead of "we are fighting NEWEY", the exact words were "we are fighting against a Newey car", is this correct?

That would be correct. He is crediting Newey for a car that now allows the drivers to qualify on the front row at every race.

If anything, the other Red Bull engineers are hard done by in the statement because he is giving Newey all the credit for the car. This is not uncommon though because Byrne received all the accolades for the Ferrari monsters.

[FigJam]

We were talking about FigJam's idea of 'general consensus', which is not the general consensus when you rate the opinions.

Whos opinions? I'm not talking about wannabe experts on this forum or elsewhere, more what you'd expect if you walked up and down the pitlane and grilled people in the know.

In the end they are also only opinions...but from people far more qualified to comment. From that over the last few years I've gathered that, rightly or wrongly, most still have Alonso and Hamilton as the benchmarks for various reasons. Unfair to Vettel?? Yeah most likely.

I can see their reasonings behind it all though. For most of the last 2 or 3 years, Alonso and Hamilton have been racing at the very limit 100% of the time just to give Red Bull something to worry about. Vettel hasn't had to generally push that hard 60% of the time, they've been that fast.

Also...Alonso and Hamilton have gone up against each other previously in the same team. Lewis has also taken on Jenson Button, another World Champion.

Vettel hasn't had a teammate of particular note yet. Sorry but Webber has simply never genuinely cut it when it matters.

So you can qualify opinions as you like....but there are so many variables. Which means I take a general consensus reasonably seriously, particularly when its from people in the know.

[RealRacing]

That would be correct. He is crediting Newey for a car that now allows the drivers to qualify on the front row at every race.

Ok, how is that different?

[KnucklesAgain]

Instead of "we are fighting NEWEY", the exact words were "we are fighting against a Newey car", is this correct?

Man, you are really playing dumb. No it is not correct, the quote in full was
"When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth. "They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

[RealRacing]

Man, you are really playing dumb. No it is not correct, the quote in full was
"When we had similar cars to everyone, we were leading the championship. Now we are fighting against a Newey car," Alonso said after qualifying fifth. "They are first and second in all the races; it's not only Sebastian."

You underlined that part, so I asked: Instead of "we are fighting NEWEY", the exact words were "we are fighting against a Newey car".

So, again, the exact words were:"...we are fighting against a Newey car". Do you agree with this?

[Sakae]

You know better than Seb then:


"We respect each other a lot and like to interact with each other ["umgang haben" also is "keep company with each other", etc.]", Vettel said. "Sometimes things ar not put in context. There is respect and that's the most important thing"

Sebastian is sometimes too kind.


His boss / read the article and you will find out what RB thinks:

Alonso's comment last week that he was fighting Red Bull's chief technical officer Adrian Newey, the genius behind the RB8, was taken to be backhanded criticism of the 25-year-old German, who has enjoyed the best car for most of the last three seasons and is a firm favourite to make it a hat-trick of championships in 2012.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz2B2a3Homy

Edited by Sakae, 02 November 2012 - 05:43.

[Peter Perfect]

Hello..

It might be only me, but does any one else also thinks that Alonso & Hamilton are jealous of Vettel?

...

Yes. Show me a driver on the grid who doesn't want the best car. There's obviously respect between the drivers but that doesn't stop them believing that they're the best, and even the best driver still wants the best car.

[WatchingF1since4yearsold]

Yes. Show me a driver on the grid who doesn't want the best car. There's obviously respect between the drivers but that doesn't stop them believing that they're the best, and even the best driver still wants the best car.

this, exactly this, heck this should really just end the thread frankly as it sums it up perfectly.

[Buttoneer]

Deleted bestest eva driva posts. This thread is not about that; please respect the wishes of the OP and do not try and hijack it for your own purposes.

[KnucklesAgain]

You underlined that part, so I asked: Instead of "we are fighting NEWEY", the exact words were "we are fighting against a Newey car".

So, again, the exact words were:"...we are fighting against a Newey car". Do you agree with this?

No I don't, because I am able to read 2 sentences in a row.

[KnucklesAgain]

Sebastian is sometimes too kind.


His boss / read the article and you will find out what RB thinks:



Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz2B2a3Homy

"It is very simplistic to say it is all about Adrian," Horner said. "Yes, it is Adrian's technical team but you have to have all of the elements doing their bit.

Agreed, it's not only Newey, it's not only Sebastian. OBVIOUSLY.

Also your article writer does not ignore Newey either, so why must Alonso?

Alonso's comment last week that he was fighting Red Bull's chief technical officer Adrian Newey, the genius behind the RB8, was taken to be backhanded criticism of the 25-year-old German, who has enjoyed the best car for most of the last three seasons and is a firm favourite to make it a hat-trick of championships in 2012.

[mnmracer]

Agreed, it's not only Newey, it's not only Sebastian. OBVIOUSLY.
Also your article writer does not ignore Newey either, so why must Alonso?

The problem is that Alonso ignores Vettel.

[KnucklesAgain]

The problem is that Alonso ignores Vettel.

By saying "It's not only Sebastian"?????

[fastdriver]

By saying "It's not only Sebastian"?????

By saying he is driving against a newey car, implying anyone driving it would get same result.
The more i read the quote, the more i realise how arrogant FA is.
..when we were in equal cars We were leading.

Like WTF! Someone would argue then that surely that would indicate the cars were not equal

[fabr68]

By saying he is driving against a newey car, implying anyone driving it would get same result.
The more i read the quote, the more i realise how arrogant FA is.
..when we were in equal cars We were leading.

Like WTF! Someone would argue then that surely that would indicate the cars were not equal

The cars were not equal back at the beginning of the season. Red Bull qualyfied ahead of Ferrari most of the time. Just not a pole position to run away with the race.

[fastdriver]

So if FA goes on to win the remaining races will that mean the cars are equal again?

[fabr68]

So if FA goes on to win the remaining races will that mean the cars are equal again?

For as long as both Red Bull cars qualify 0.5-1.0 seconds ahead of both Ferraris I dont think you can say all cars were equal.

[mnmracer]

The cars were not equal back at the beginning of the season. Red Bull qualyfied ahead of Ferrari most of the time. Just not a pole position to run away with the race.

If you don't know there's a difference between qualifying pace and race pace, you should Google 'Trulli train'.
Red Bull's had an advantage in the earlier races (Ferrari obviously better in Malaysia's changing circumstances), Ferrari was on par if not faster a couple times from Barcelona on. The cars were not equal, but that doesn't mean they were always not equal on one side.

[Creepy]

The problem is that Alonso ignores Vettel.

Alonso has praised Vettel in the past. Aknowledging that RBR has a guy like Newey is not ignoring Vettel. For heaven's shake, how many times I have to read in this forum about the lack of attention/praise Vettel has... I highly doubt Alonso is ignoring Vettel. And nothing of what he says is a reason to change this.

[Zava]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103950

"If we get pole it will be fantastic, but we shouldn't get our hopes up; Sebastian has a faster car," Hamilton said.

"But I'm going to give it my all, everything I can and hope maybe his lap isn't so great and mine is. If we get ahead it will be a huge bonus for us."

I wonder when he concluded that? in fp1 when he was in front by 0.7, or in fp2 when he was in front by 0.5 before he didn't improve much on the softs?

"It was very difficult to get the time [on the option] - we had a good time on the prime, but people seemed to find eight tenths on the option and I wasn't able to get anytime out of it.