78 replies to this topic

[Kucki]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

[PayasYouRace]

Same reason a clothing company did it in the mid-90s.

A good race team is a good race team, no matter where the money comes from. This one happens to be Sir Jackie Stewart's race winning team, just after a couple of ownership changes.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 22 November 2012 - 11:50.

[itsademo]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Oh come on you know its only the money red bull supply its not like they take their factory slaves and make them build racing cars.
all teams employ as a rule from the same small group of F1 people not from their owners business otherwise force India would have pilots as drivers McLaren would have accountants and red bull would have hyperactive energy drink junkies driving their cars.

edit add
your question is about as valid as asking how can red bull build a red bull and a torro rosso

Edited by itsademo, 22 November 2012 - 11:53.

[LB]

Jordan did make an energy drink. I liked it anyway

[F1ultimate]

Red Bull are succeeding because they are different and have a different corporate culture than Ferrari and Mclaren. They have given great power and responsibility to Newey which is a golden stroke in an era during which aerodynamic lead the performance race. If there was an engine war then Red Bull would be far worse off.

[Jazza]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Because it is a professional racing team that existed long before RedBull bought them. When RedBull have had enough of F1 they will sell the team to someone else, and if the new owners have the funding the team will continue to win. It is not as if the cars are being built in the RedBull energy drink factory, they just own the team.

RedBull are the 21st century Benetton, and I don't think anyone cared when they were beating other professional racing teams either. Other teams are and have been owned by banks, airliners, steel companies, etc. Who cares where the money comes form? They are all professional racing teams at the pointy end of the gird.

Edited by Jazza, 22 November 2012 - 11:56.

[smitten]

By paying even less attention to the RRA than the others?

[Hyatt]

the more interesting question would be: how is RB able to exploit Neweys potential while Mclaren completely failed to do so ...

[tifosiMac]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Maybe because they've put together a great group of people, many of whom were working in Formula One way before Red Bull sponsored a British team?

[David Lightman]

Coke are about to enter F1 according to the front page of this site…

[Diablobb81]

What does it matter where the money (and it's a lot of it) comes from?

Edited by Diablobb81, 22 November 2012 - 12:13.

[Enzoluis]

If RB is an Energy Drink car manufacturer, Ferrari is bank car manufacturer, Maclaren e mobilphone car manufacturer.

[jk]

It is not Ferrari bring the guys that produces the 458 on weekdays. The F1 teams are seperate entities and the name merely reflect who funds the operation. Not where the brainpower is coming from.

[HP]

the more interesting question would be: how is RB able to exploit Neweys potential while Mclaren completely failed to do so ...

DC answered that for you years ago. He told Newey of how more freedom he enjoys at RedBull compared to McLaren, which was an important issue that made Newey moved on.

[mattferg]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Red Bull and Torro Rosso - Money comes from Red Bull energy drinks
McLaren has sponsorship from Lucozade's owners
Ferrari has sponsorship from TNT energy drinks.
Mercedes has sponsorship from Monster
Lotus have sponsorship from Burn (Coke)
Williams HAD sponsorship from Hell energy drink.

They've tried!

Edited by mattferg, 22 November 2012 - 13:51.

[e34]

Jordan did make an energy drink. I liked it anyway

But, going by your avatar, you'll probably also like irn bru...

[fifi]

Jordan did make an energy drink. I liked it anyway

i think me and you were the only ones

[Vesuvius]

Since when have energy drinks built cars? engineers, mechanics and designers built the car, Red Bull only gives money for that..and that explains it, money and better group of people with fresh ideas.

Edited by Vesuvius, 22 November 2012 - 14:24.

[Linther]

Modern Formula 1 has nothing to do with building (road) cars. Reputable car making companies like BMW, Honda, Toyota or Mercedes haven't managed to build a championship winning machines.


Well, in fact Honda has, but pulled out before it won .

[sportingcp]

I believe the answer is Adrian Newey.

Edited by sportingcp, 22 November 2012 - 15:10.

[Dalin80]

Having more money then most car manufacturers in the world combined might help a bit too.

[Jimisgod]

[Abranet]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

How can you rationally explain that someone with over 1000 posts can ask such a silly question?

Does Newey design energy drinks usually and just decided to have a go at cars?

Edited by Abranet, 22 November 2012 - 15:27.

[Vieras]

I still think its weird that the publicity of building championship winning formula 1 car is more valuable for RedBull than Mercedes or Ferrari. Also Ferrari and McLaren should be able to use some of the Formula 1 research and development in road cars and the other way. How is it even possible that Red Bull is so involved in all kinds of racing, does anyone know how much RedBull spends on marketing?

[2ms]

I have no idea, it's beyond me, but it sure is wrong. A crime against humanity even. Completely unfair to poor Ferrari. How dare this team who gets their money not from a car company? It is like a spit in the face. Only teams associated with car companies should win, no matter how inferior

[w00dy]

By paying even less attention to the RRA than the others?

But nobody cares

[JRizzle86]

Heavy Financial support and Newey

[tifosi]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Yeah, cause Newey was just an energy drink maker.

[DaddyCool]

I wonder why RBR doesn't get rid 70% of its crew immediately. After all it's all up to Newey. Besides him you only need a team chief, 2 race engineers, and some guys who build up the motorhome / cook dinner.

[George Costanza]

It starts with Adrian Newey....

[George Costanza]

the more interesting question would be: how is RB able to exploit Neweys potential while Mclaren completely failed to do so ...

Not exactly fair...

With Newey at McLaren, they won 1998-1999, and could have easily won 2000 and 2003, and of course 2005 for a little luck on their side. Total of 5 championships for them, which is would have matched Williams 92-93-94-96-97 (WDC or WCC).

If only Frank Williams let Newey become the Technical Director of the team, he would have stayed there his whole time, I believe. And you can bet Williams would have won more championships with Juan Pablo or Ralf Schumacher in the his designed cars.

Edited by George Costanza, 22 November 2012 - 17:18.

[BoschKurve]

Newey's creations only work when they have a stable platform to work on.

His Leyton House cars only showed potential at smooth surface circuits like Paul Ricard where things were predictable.

When he went to Williams, while his creations did work, it took Patrick Head to make sure the reliability was there. One thing Newey is not known for is reliability.

The ban on development in all areas except aero benefits him more because it keeps the platform he works on stagnant.

[George Costanza]

Newey's creations only work when they have a stable platform to work on.

His Leyton House cars only showed potential at smooth surface circuits like Paul Ricard where things were predictable.

When he went to Williams, while his creations did work, it took Patrick Head to make sure the reliability was there. One thing Newey is not known for is reliability.

The ban on development in all areas except aero benefits him more because it keeps the platform he works on stagnant.

At McLaren, who was Newey's right hand man? Pat Fry? Mike Coughlin? Neil Oatley?

Newey and Head were legendary....

Who's Newey's right hand man at Red Bull?

I always wondered how Newey would get along with Ross Brawn.... Imagine that?

Edited by George Costanza, 22 November 2012 - 17:27.

[Jon83]

It isn't a case of a drinks company building a better car. Everyone involved in the car know what they are doing. It isn't as if Red Bull showed up in 2005 with a blank sheet of paper and all by themselves created this great car without hiring the right people.

Far too much emphasis is placed on what Red Bull is outside of F1. The racing team had been together prior to them becoming RBR. It is a statement that Lewis Hamilton made, probably as a joke, which has been carried for years.

[SCUDmissile]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

How can giants of football like Manchester United and Liverpool with illustrious history be beaten by the likes of Man City, Chelsea etc. ?

Money. RedBull have the highest budget in F1 right now, and they are under suspicion of breaking the RRA. They also spend this money on the right people.

[Cesc]

Red Bulll is more a brand that an energy drink company. They have a high value only as a brand.

Edited by Cesc, 23 November 2012 - 09:39.

[jstrains]

[ensign14]

Red Bulll is more a brand that an energy drink company. They have a high value only as a brand.

Indeed RB don't even make the drink. All the product is subcontracted - manufacture, bottling, canning, distribution. Red Bull is pretty much a marketing company that allows others to use its logo for a (large) royalty.

[OoxLox]

I think the question should be how can a team be built from relative obscurity to F1 dominance in only 8 years? You've got to give credit also to Horner, not just Newey, and the way he's structuring and running that team, because they've been in business 8 years and have won the WCC in three of them

[Thanatos]

Cardboard cutouts of the drivers???

[F1ultimate]

Cardboard cutouts of the drivers???

Nope. It's real people in the shot.

[LB]

i think me and you were the only ones

Must have been the Vodka

[paulrobs]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Unbelievable post. As others have said it's Red Bull money that pays for a professional F1 race car company to go racing.

[paulrobs]

How can you rationally explain that someone with over 1000 posts can ask such a silly question?

Does Newey design energy drinks usually and just decided to have a go at cars?

[Zippel]

If only Frank Williams let Newey become the Technical Director of the team, he would have stayed there his whole time, I believe. And you can bet Williams would have won more championships with Juan Pablo or Ralf Schumacher in the his designed cars.

Newey had been getting TD offers from other teams for a while before he left. He was happy at Williams. What ultimately made him leave was that he felt he wasn't being listen to in important decision making, particularly when it came to drivers. When Damon Hill wasn't renewed for 97, Newey also decided to leave.

[Tony Mandara]

Maybe these car companies should try making an Energy Drink

How would you explain rationally, why a company like Red Bull beats all those huge legendary car companies in there own discipline.

Going on this assuption must mean that Newey is seriously crap. A can of Red Bull gives diabolical drag figures!

[Kelateboy]

With Newey at McLaren, they won 1998-1999, and could have easily won 2000 and 2003, and of course 2005 for a little luck on their side. Total of 5 championships for them, which is would have matched Williams 92-93-94-96-97 (WDC or WCC).

Ferrari won 1999 World Constructors' Championship. Hakkinen won the WDC.

[RedBaron]

A name is just a name. The work being done in the garage and in the factory isn't done by men and women who normally blend drinks then then suddenly found themselves building F1 cars.

[RedBaron]

Indeed RB don't even make the drink. All the product is subcontracted - manufacture, bottling, canning, distribution. Red Bull is pretty much a marketing company that allows others to use its logo for a (large) royalty.

There was a very good series of TV shows in the UK on BBC called 'Super Brands' that outlined this. Interesting stuff.

[choyothe]

I think the real question is why couldn't Newey get it done at Mclaren and does he need to prove himself in an other team outside the comfort of RB to cement his legacy?

I say yes.