228 replies to this topic

[joora]

With all due respect Ross, do you know how socialist governments work? ^^^ that' says you're pretty naive.

I know firsthand how both, socialist(a.k.a. dictatorship) and so-called democratic(a.k.a. capitalist) governments work, and they are both bad, but because of different things.

[karne]

Think he himself is the one who chose to use the name?

Bruno himself has explained that his name was a "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" scenario.

(Leaving aside the fact that, as the son of a Senna, he is more than entitled to use his mother's surname...)

If he didn't use the name, he knew that people would make comment, or even assume that he was ashamed of his uncle. I can only imagine what some of the evil vultures on here would have said about him. If he did use the name, he was going to be placed under enormous and unrealistic pressure - which is exactly what's happened.

Add in the fact that Bruno's own father was killed only a year after his uncle and I can't even begin to imagine the level of emotions involved in choosing which name to use.

And if you are going to criticise Bruno for using the name of Senna, then you should also be criticising Ayrton, Fernando, Sergio, and any other of that Latin style where a child is given two last names.

[Pothead4Philosopher]

Well,

The fact is whatever name he (Bruno) used, he was not as fast as his uncle. No shame in that, but fair is fair -- he had his shot in F1 and didn't quite make it.

World won't end and his life will go on as well.

[noikeee]

So Bottas is just yet another pay driver buying a seat in F1? And he doesn't even have the merit of being a GP2 champion. I trust he will be treated with the same level of disdain as other pay-drivers.

Bizarre reply, not sure if serious or not. First there is a lot of confusion on whether he's even a paydriver or not. Then you speak as if winning GP2 was a requirement for getting into F1. GP2 has been a great talent pool at times, but not every driver follows that path and plenty of non-champions at that level have come good.

Bottas basically skipped that level at all by not even doing WSR neither, that is risky, and speaks volumes of how confident Williams are in his ability. He won championships at both previous levels which are FRenault (or FBMW) and F3/GP3, so is hardly the driver that would only be in contention for his money. If he even brings that much money.

In the past, up to 2003-ish there used to be a lot more drivers jumping from F3/GP3 level or lower into F1, sometimes they'd turn out to be a Kimi, an Hakkinen or a Button, sometimes a Pizzonia, a Magnussen or a Sato. It's a lot more uncommon nowadays and for Williams to do it indicates an uncommon level of confidence in him.

[Anderis]

This.

And if could, still would not. He won't be joining the grid because of money. Those companies mentioned would never pay that kind of amounts. He'll be there for another sort of reason. Get used with it.

Wolff: "Bottas is no economic harakiri"

Wolff says that Bottas has been successfull in securing sponsorship backing in Finland, and it was not meaningless. Williams wanted the best driver-sponsorship package and have found it in Bottas. Valtteri brings some serious money with him, get used with it. It may be not a primary reason why he gets a seat but it has helped him a lot if we are talking about racing seat at Williams in 2013. I actually think he is good enough to find a place in F1 without backing, but since it's very hard to find a proper sponsorship this days in F1, Bottas and Wolff decided to find some sponsorship in Finland. It makes no harm neither to a driver nor to a team, so why not to do it? Toto admitted this and he has no interest of making his driver looks like a pay-driver.

[Szoelloe]

In the past, up to 2003-ish there used to be a lot more drivers jumping from F3/GP3 level or lower into F1, sometimes they'd turn out to be a Kimi, an Hakkinen or a Button, sometimes a Pizzonia, a Magnussen or a Sato. It's a lot more uncommon nowadays and for Williams to do it indicates an uncommon level of confidence in him.

MS only raced in F Koenig, and F Ford in Germany, plus the German tin-top series, he had little to his name from any series considered to be F1 feeder. He was virtually unknown when he appeared at Jordan in '91, and dropped some jaws instantly. If Bottas is as talented as pundits say he is, skipping some feeder series will not hurt him. Although he was not racing, he was educated to be on the grid in the most effective way nowadays. Sir Frank usually knows a talent when he sees one, so lets see how he fares against a fast teammate as a rookie. He should be well prepared.

[motorhead]

This is a little bit OT, but wasn´t it that Gutierrez is bringin Sauber + 30 million. That is Ridiculous!!!

Maybe next genaration of F1 driver´s will come from developing countries were power and wealth is concentrated to few. China "the land of human rights" is possibly going to have F1 driver soon. What about North-Korea - it is in the hands of their dictator...

[kpchelsea]

Bruno himself has explained that his name was a "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" scenario.

(Leaving aside the fact that, as the son of a Senna, he is more than entitled to use his mother's surname...)

If he didn't use the name, he knew that people would make comment, or even assume that he was ashamed of his uncle. I can only imagine what some of the evil vultures on here would have said about him. If he did use the name, he was going to be placed under enormous and unrealistic pressure - which is exactly what's happened.

Add in the fact that Bruno's own father was killed only a year after his uncle and I can't even begin to imagine the level of emotions involved in choosing which name to use.

And if you are going to criticise Bruno for using the name of Senna, then you should also be criticising Ayrton, Fernando, Sergio, and any other of that Latin style where a child is given two last names.

Yes i heard that Senna dropped the da Silva part of his name because its quite a common name in Portuguese similar to Smith in English

[kpchelsea]

MS only raced in F Koenig, and F Ford in Germany, plus the German tin-top series, he had little to his name from any series considered to be F1 feeder. He was virtually unknown when he appeared at Jordan in '91, and dropped some jaws instantly. If Bottas is as talented as pundits say he is, skipping some feeder series will not hurt him. Although he was not racing, he was educated to be on the grid in the most effective way nowadays. Sir Frank usually knows a talent when he sees one, so lets see how he fares against a fast teammate as a rookie. He should be well prepared.

Schumacher was German F3 champion he also won the prestiguous end of season Macau F3 race (after he crashed out Hakkinen, cough, cough,) he was very much a high profile junior talent thats why Mercedes paid to get him into F1

[Collective]

This is a little bit OT, but wasn´t it that Gutierrez is bringin Sauber + 30 million. That is Ridiculous!!!

Maybe next genaration of F1 driver´s will come from developing countries were power and wealth is concentrated to few. China "the land of human rights" is possibly going to have F1 driver soon. What about North-Korea - it is in the hands of their dictator...

Where do you get that figure from? Sauber sponsorship is not public but all I have read is nowhere near 30.

[kpchelsea]

So Bottas is just yet another pay driver buying a seat in F1? And he doesn't even have the merit of being a GP2 champion. I trust he will be treated with the same level of disdain as other pay-drivers.

Well Kobayashi has to find sponsorship to stay in F1 and join the ranks of disdained F1 drivers

[Collective]

So Bottas is just yet another pay driver buying a seat in F1? And he doesn't even have the merit of being a GP2 champion. I trust he will be treated with the same level of disdain as other pay-drivers.

Well, worst case scenario they just replaced a non-GP2-champion paydriver with another. No big deal.

[noikeee]

Schumacher was German F3 champion he also won the prestiguous end of season Macau F3 race (after he crashed out Hakkinen, cough, cough,) he was very much a high profile junior talent thats why Mercedes paid to get him into F1

Yep Schumacher did F3 to F1 like Hakkinen and Button (and Sato, Pizzonia, Magnussen, countless others at the time...), but with a stint in sports cars in-between and cameo DTM appearances.

[BRG]

Bizarre reply, not sure if serious or not.

It's pretty simple really. Would Bottas have got this seat if he didn't bring money to the team? If the answer is NO, then he is a pay-driver. Drivers like Petrov and Maldonado are repeatedly treated with contempt on this forum because they secured their seats with financial support to their teams. I merely wondered if Bottas would be treated likewise. Or is there some other factor that I have overlooked?

[autosportfan]

Well, Venezuela is neither the biggest nor the richest country around there, but Maldonado is the one who has much larger backing than any racing driver nowadays.

Finland has a small population but it's much richer than Brazil.

It's about finding people or companies who want to invest in you. I think Bottas had to gather around $10 m because there would be nothing to talk about otherwise. Toto clearly suggested Bottas did well in finding sponsorship backing. I'm sure he wouldn't say that if what Bottas managed to gather is not a large part of what Bruno brings.

When Raikkonen won WDC in 2007 the sport personality of the year was some cross country skier... There is no loose money around nor willingness to help.... and in the end taxman takes it all anyway. It is possible to have a higher tax rate than what you earn.

[autosportfan]

Finland has some serious forest-industry, Nokia, and Valmet/Valtra, owned by Agco, but I guess they could still sponsor a finnish driver.

And yet they do not... None of them have had anything to do with F1 in recent decades...

[autosportfan]

So Bottas is just yet another pay driver buying a seat in F1? And he doesn't even have the merit of being a GP2 champion. I trust he will be treated with the same level of disdain as other pay-drivers.

[Disgrace]

I think people are confusing a social commentary on the forum to actual bashing...

[Anderis]

When Raikkonen won WDC in 2007 the sport personality of the year was some cross country skier... There is no loose money around nor willingness to help.... and in the end taxman takes it all anyway. It is possible to have a higher tax rate than what you earn.

Well, although this may be true, Toto Wolff basically confirmed Bottas secured a sponsorship backing that was substantial for the team to replace Senna's backing and it wasn't meaningless with securing his seat. Sure, you can pretend that in theory, Bottas had no chance of finding significant backing in Finland and you can ignore Wolff's words. But apparently, the reality is different. We will find out who Bottas' backers are in the next few months, don't worry.

And yet they do not... None of them have had anything to do with F1 in recent decades...

Wihuri and Kemppi are current Williams' sponsors and Nokia supported Salo during his stint at Tyrell.

[Risil]

Nice looking car, that.

Edited by Risil, 29 November 2012 - 21:51.

[autosportfan]

Well, although this may be true, Toto Wolff basically confirmed Bottas secured a sponsorship backing that was substantial for the team to replace Senna's backing and it wasn't meaningless with securing his seat. Sure, you can pretend that in theory, Bottas had no chance of finding significant backing in Finland and you can ignore Wolff's words. But apparently, the reality is different. We will find out who Bottas' backers are in the next few months, don't worry.


Wihuri and Kemppi are current Williams' sponsors and Nokia supported Salo during his stint at Tyrell.

I give up. You obviously did not read what I wrote.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Wihuri and Kemppi are long-term Bottas sponsors. From the F3 and GP3 days.

[billm99uk]

This is a little bit OT, but wasn´t it that Gutierrez is bringin Sauber + 30 million. That is Ridiculous!!!

I don't think you can say Gutierrez is really "bringing" $30m. It's just that the Slim deal has always been tied to getting Mexican drivers into F1 and, with Perez gone, realistically he's the only one available.

Edited by billm99uk, 30 November 2012 - 13:44.

[HistoryFan]

Antti Aarnio-Wihuri is supporting Valtteri Bottas. Is it the same one who was owner of the former Finish F1 team AAW Racing?

[Kalmake]

Antti Aarnio-Wihuri is supporting Valtteri Bottas. Is it the same one who was owner of the former Finish F1 team AAW Racing?

Yep.

[HistoryFan]

Thank you

why does he support Bottas?
Is he still involved in racing?
Is he supporting also other Finish talents?

Edited by HistoryFan, 06 December 2012 - 12:26.

[2ms]

When I watch interviews of Bottas, I get the feeling that he is very smart in the kind of manner that someone like Kimi or Button is very smart. Although he is a rookie, I expect him to be a very safe and smart driver. I think he's just what we need right now in this age of Grosjeans, Maldonados, Perezes, etc. I'm also pleased that we're actually seeing a new driver get into F1 on merit rather than due to being from some nation with market that X company wants to tap etc. It's been a long time since that...

[motorhead]

I don't think you can say Gutierrez is really "bringing" $30m. It's just that the Slim deal has always been tied to getting Mexican drivers into F1 and, with Perez gone, realistically he's the only one available.

Yeah, I should have chosen my words more carefully. BTW wasn´t it Maldonado who said when trying to get a Sauber deal that he can´t compete with 30million coming from Mexican sponsor.

[Risil]

Yeah, I should have chosen my words more carefully. BTW wasn´t it Maldonado who said when trying to get a Sauber deal that he can´t compete with 30million coming from Mexican sponsor.

I think Pastor quite possibly can.

If those figures are true though, perhaps we should lay off Maldonado as such an egregious pay driver.