128 replies to this topic

[ANF]

I want to lay this at veteran de la Rosa's feet.
It's natural, at that part of the track, that you want to go on the inside. de la Rosa should've been more awake I think.

I always thought it was stupid and dangerous to go for the inside there, especially if you're not sure the driver in front is expecting the move.

[2ms]

I am beginning to think that the main thing with Grosjean is that he is simply an idiot, as in that his IQ is very low, at least when it comes to making quick decisions as is part of the job of being an F1 driver.

It would be one thing if he just had poor spatial abilities or whatever. There's a whole additional layer on top -- he seems to have a very self-centered view where the kind of thoughtfulness needed for F1 simply isn't in his make-up. He just always thinks things like "ok now I must race to the pits to replace wing" without thinking at all of the other considerations such as other drivers on track. And he always seems to think his accidents are other people's fault. While setting all-time records for the most equipment destroyed in one season, I've seen precious little real taking responsibility for errors.

Anyway, he just doesn't seem to be improving. They gotta get him outta there. There's plenty of racing outside of F1. He'll be ok. Just let's not have him smashing everything into bits anymore in what is supposed to be the race of the 20 top drivers in the world.

[Eff One 2002]

PDLR probably should have used his mirrors.

[packapoo]

Was Pedro on a flying lap? If he was, then tough luck for Grosjean, Pedro was on the racing line.

Don't believe the HRT's have done a flying lap all season!?

[halifaxf1fan]

This! And if even Maldanado did know the way it's done, even under pressure of being in his last lap, I can't find any sense in Grosjean's move, even more in a track with wet spots. Maybe, being in Brazil, he feared 'not going for the gap' and so 'no longer being a racing driver'...

...... but there was no gap!

[travbrad]

...... but there was no gap!

There seemed to be quite a big gap between Grosjean's ears.

[Dolph]

They're not immaterial at all, this was just the latest in a long string of incidents, they're part of a pattern, and a long way off being immaterial, he's the only driver in years to be disqualified and this was just another example as to why that is, god only knows what he'll manage in the race tomorrow.

Grosjean's not been disqualified. The last time in F1 somebody was DQ'd was the Saubers in the 2011 season opener.

[Jejking]

1. Blue flags? Were shown REALLY late because both were already near the blue flag post and Grosjean was close.
2. DRS stuck or not, then it's Grosjean who needs to watch out because he is behind.
3. De la Rosa takes the complete inside line to start/finish flying lap. It's an usual way but not 100% usual.
4. With that being certain, Grosjean thinks he will be given enough room to pass so he tries to pass.
5. De la Rosa takes the tighter line anyway and Grosjean has no time to back out of it.

Verdict: de la Rosa had to be a bit more careful but I suspect his team didn't warn him in time. Plus blue flags were shown really, unnecessary late.
Grosjean had a great speed difference which was always going to make it harder because there is no 100% clear line to drive there. THere could have been enough space but the door was closed in his face and he had no time to back out of it.

Qualifying incident really.

[hijinx]

I guess you are blind. PDLR hit the side of RG's FW, so RG couldn't hit the back of the HRT.

I guess you are someone who enjoys the anonymity that such forums provide for you to lash out at people. Why is it hard to point your opinion out in a friendly manner? I suspect it is because you are someone who lives a daily life of being suppressed at work/home and this is the perfect outlet for you to be that type of person you so wish to be. I feel sad for you.

[Jimisgod]

De La Rosa was on a hot lap, was he not? I have never seen anyone pass there and why in the hell would you risk it in qualifying. Pedro didn't help, but Grosjean was already doing something dumb.

I think it's another case of stupidity by a driver with more sponsors than sense.

[MattPete]

After watching that video, I blame 100% on Grosjean.

Man, that guy just does not think! Part of being a top F1 driver (or tops in Indy or NASCAR) is being able to predict what other drivers might do. Grosjean is just not capable of putting himself in other people's shoes. He reminds me of my three-year-old, who, as sweet as he is, has no grasp of how his actions might affect others, or what others might do in a given situation.

If Renault wants results, they should replace Big John with Kobayashi.

[Boxerevo]

De La Rosa was on a hot lap, was he not? I have never seen anyone pass there and why in the hell would you risk it in qualifying. Pedro didn't help, but Grosjean was already doing something dumb.

I think it's another case of stupidity by a driver with more sponsors than sense.

I Know people here is being hard on Grosjean and he is really dumb sometimes.

But please,explain me that line of Hrt,its was like he did want to enter the box later than he shoud had,for me it was a very strange crash.

I know that everybody "cuts" there,but they way the hrt was doing was simply very very strange,everybody is sure he didn't want to enter the pit box ?

.

Edited by Boxerevo, 25 November 2012 - 06:16.

[Boxerevo]

Saw now again,these HRTs are incredible slow,so slow that he really was "just" cutting.

Unreal difference speed for same class of racing.

Yeah,so was Grosjean fault,he has to know that these car are just that slow,i will not miss hrt for sure,what a pain for the other drivers,its just too slow man.

[boldhakka]

Pedro was a little naughty there.

[Muppetmad]

They're not immaterial at all, this was just the latest in a long string of incidents, they're part of a pattern, and a long way off being immaterial, he's the only driver in years to be disqualified and this was just another example as to why that is, god only knows what he'll manage in the race tomorrow.

You can put this incident into the pattern once you have ascertained who is to blame - his past incidents are irrelevant until you have done that. It's fallacious to assume that just because Grosjean is involved in an incident that it automatically means he is at fault and that it forms part of some general trend. Since we're here to discuss who was at fault for this incident alone, bringing up his past incidents seems premature when it has not been properly substantiated that Grosjean is at fault - and once again, I say that being at fault is different from being wise. de la Rosa turned into Grosjean's nose when it was already there - and Grosjean said afterwards that "I braked as much as I could", so he would have been even further alongside him otherwise and would have removed any doubt about de la Rosa needing to give room - so de la Rosa is at fault.

If any other driver had done the same thing as Grosjean yesterday, would you be blaming them any less? If the answer is yes, you're viewing this from the wrong perspective.

The car wasn't already there and the blue flags are irrelevant.

? So was this incident just a figment of my imagination? Of course the car was there, or else contact wouldn't have been made.

Edited by Muppetmad, 25 November 2012 - 07:42.

[eREr]

I guess you are someone who enjoys the anonymity that such forums provide for you to lash out at people. Why is it hard to point your opinion out in a friendly manner? I suspect it is because you are someone who lives a daily life of being suppressed at work/home and this is the perfect outlet for you to be that type of person you so wish to be. I feel sad for you.

omfg

Have you seen the video? I think you haven't, that's why you wrote absolutely incorrect "facts".. Grosjean hit the back of the HRT? LOL

Once more just for you: HRT's left rear wheel hit the side of RG's front wing.

Some illustrations:
You can see where is the end of the rear wing of the HRT and where is its rear wheel:


And now let's see where is the front wing of the Lotus:


The Lotus was beside the HRT when PDLR closed the door. Simple as that.

So how could you write that RG hit the back of the HRT? Please explain.

Here's the video again in HD: click here

Edited by eREr, 25 November 2012 - 10:24.

[Ham's Cranes Ltd]

Saw now again,these HRTs are incredible slow,so slow that he really was "just" cutting.

Unreal difference speed for same class of racing.

Yeah,so was Grosjean fault,he has to know that these car are just that slow,i will not miss hrt for sure,what a pain for the other drivers,its just too slow man.

De la Rosa had DRS broken. HRTs top speed is as good as any other F1 car.

[Wolfie]

It was Romain who was under investigation, not Pedro.

In the beginning of the season I actually felt so so sorry for Romain's 'bad luck', but when taking into account how he was in F1 already in 2009 (he was a disaster already then) and how he isn't taking responsibility for his actions, I seriously doubt he will ever learn from his mistakes. One has to admit being at fault before learning from it.

Is it only lack of spatial awareness or is he also dumbstruck? What I have seen is how RG sees an opportunity, an opening, and goes flatout for it without taking others in consideration, i.e. he has no respect for drivers on the track. The NASCAR-guys could teach him a lesson, since they would not tolerate his behavior and they would push him out in every race, lol.

Formula One is considered as the royal class of motorsport, it's a sport for gentlemen who are so good that they can race each other in a fair sportsmanship spirit. Guys like RG ruin the sport for those who expect to see the best of the best on track.

Mosley opposed Kimi in 2001, Kimi had no experience of driving formula cars and he was conscerned that Kimi would put other drivers in danger. At the end of 2001 Mosley urged all other drivers to learn from Kimi, hence spatial awareness, fair sportsmanship, good manners and respect for others can well be things that Romain will never learn.

What's the point in having everyone be scared of him? Sure, they will learn to give him way in order to save their own race but what's the point with that?

Drivers are only feeding his bad manners by always giving him way. Remember the start in one GP where Kimi was behind Maldonado and Romain a few positions behind Kimi? Romain just blazed from the outside and sandwiched Kimi between himself and Maldonado. Kimi's only way to salvage his race was to back off in order to avoid a collision.

I seriously doubt that Romain will learn from this, he has had time enough already. He turned down Jackie Stewart's offer to help him two or three times already, that's arrogance. Maldonado got a mentor and was willing to learn and look at him!

This is spatial awareness and it's something that Romain's teammate has had ever since he began his career in F1, please take a look at it, it shows clearly what is demanded from F1-drivers - or should be demanded, since F1 is the royal class of motorsport: http://indavideo.hu/...imi_vs_Hamilton

[Wolfie]

You can put this incident into the pattern once you have ascertained who is to blame - his past incidents are irrelevant until you have done that. It's fallacious to assume that just because Grosjean is involved in an incident that it automatically means he is at fault and that it forms part of some general trend. Since we're here to discuss who was at fault for this incident alone, bringing up his past incidents seems premature when it has not been properly substantiated that Grosjean is at fault - and once again, I say that being at fault is different from being wise. de la Rosa turned into Grosjean's nose when it was already there - and Grosjean said afterwards that "I braked as much as I could", so he would have been even further alongside him otherwise and would have removed any doubt about de la Rosa needing to give room - so de la Rosa is at fault.

If any other driver had done the same thing as Grosjean yesterday, would you be blaming them any less? If the answer is yes, you're viewing this from the wrong perspective.



? So was this incident just a figment of my imagination? Of course the car was there, or else contact wouldn't have been made.

It's just that these things happen so often and he ruins the race for others by wrecking their cars also. What if Lotus would have to pay for all the destruction RG has made on track?

This is what Pedro said:

"After the incident qualifying was over for me, the car was completely bent," de la Rosa told Spanish television. "It's just one of those things you don't understand.

"He could have overtaken me under braking for the first corner. There was no room there. He bent my car, he punctured my tyre and it also affected the DRS, so it was pretty tough qualifying."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104525

[Martijn]

Im just happy nothing went seriously wrong there; that Brazil pitlane entrance scares the bejeezus out of me and it could well have ended up with one out of control car slamming into the pitwall head. During the race as well, if one car has to pit and the other try to slipstream it (like Patrese/Berger in Estoril).

Can't believe that pit entry hasnt changed yet, with just a bit of tarmac and paint and a few rules you can make it a lot safer i think.

[Ze Bum]

This is spatial awareness and it's something that Romain's teammate has had ever since he began his career in F1, please take a look at it, it shows clearly what is demanded from F1-drivers - or should be demanded, since F1 is the royal class of motorsport: http://indavideo.hu/...imi_vs_Hamilton

In the video Kimi's hands move so quick that my computer has trouble showing it.

[hijinx]

omfg

Have you seen the video? I think you haven't, that's why you wrote absolutely incorrect "facts".. Grosjean hit the back of the HRT? LOL

Once more just for you: HRT's left rear wheel hit the side of RG's front wing.

Some illustrations:
You can see where is the end of the rear wing of the HRT and where is its rear wheel:


And now let's see where is the front wing of the Lotus:


The Lotus was beside the HRT when PDLR closed the door. Simple as that.

So how could you write that RG hit the back of the HRT? Please explain.

Here's the video again in HD: click here

I merely asked you if you would be nice enough to point your opinion out without having to be mean - calling people blind! I have seen a video of it several times since as someone else posted a video after I asked that question. From the angle that I could see, I understand that Grosjean's wing got snagged by PDL's something (maybe tyres???!!!). I can't be sure. In a normal road situation, such a scenario would mean that the person behind was too close and was not fast enough to react to what the car in front was doing - like tail-gating. So if you are traffic police, would you deem the driver in front or back to be guilty? In my opinion, this incident is exactly the same situation. But of course, you are entitled to a different opinion.

Finally, once again, you dun have to be mean or sarcastic just because you can. It tells much about what kind of person you are when you are afforded anonymity. After this response from you, I dun feel sad for you anymore than I pity your colleagues, friends and family members. This is my last reply to you as I feel it leads nowhere. Good day to you.

[Longtimefan]

It's only a matter of time until Grosjean hurts or kills someone.

I only hope 'Total' come to their senses sooner rather than later.

[Music Lover]

I am beginning to think that the main thing with Grosjean is that he is simply an idiot, as in that his IQ is very low, at least when it comes to making quick decisions as is part of the job of being an F1 driver.

It would be one thing if he just had poor spatial abilities or whatever. There's a whole additional layer on top -- he seems to have a very self-centered view where the kind of thoughtfulness needed for F1 simply isn't in his make-up. He just always thinks things like "ok now I must race to the pits to replace wing" without thinking at all of the other considerations such as other drivers on track. And he always seems to think his accidents are other people's fault. While setting all-time records for the most equipment destroyed in one season, I've seen precious little real taking responsibility for errors.

Anyway, he just doesn't seem to be improving. They gotta get him outta there. There's plenty of racing outside of F1. He'll be ok. Just let's not have him smashing everything into bits anymore in what is supposed to be the race of the 20 top drivers in the world.

Apart from the IQ thing (that isn't appropriate IMHO) I agree 100%

Again a stupid move from GRO.
A smarter driver would have backed off as next lap would have put him EASILY in the 17th to get to Q2.
PDL was on a timed lap and for HIM that lap was important, again something that GRO failed to understand. Respect for other drivers? And again he risked Kimi (on his way back to the pit) amd MS
As I said many times this years, sooner or later GRO going to cause a accident where someone get hurt. It was really really close with Fernando!

[Music Lover]

It was Romain who was under investigation, not Pedro.

Good info.

This is spatial awareness and it's something that Romain's teammate has had ever since he began his career in F1, please take a look at it, it shows clearly what is demanded from F1-drivers - or should be demanded, since F1 is the royal class of motorsport: http://indavideo.hu/...imi_vs_Hamilton

WOW, you cant be other that impressed by Kimis spatial awareness and blistering fast reactions!
Great drive from Hammy as well!!!

[AlexS]

? So was this incident just a figment of my imagination? Of course the car was there, or else contact wouldn't have been made.

A small front part of the car (the front wing) was there in the last moment of the closing . So do you call space to pass when a driver only has to do is to put a front wing at last moment?

Then you make accidents in all corners... or do you think that F1 is Scaletrix?

[Tenmantaylor]

Have any of the people here who think that Grosjean wasn't at fault for this accident ever competed in any kind of motorsport?

[Dolph]

Then you make accidents in all corners... or do you think that F1 is Scaletrix?

Wow, did you yourself come up with that insult? That's brilliant!

Edited by Dolph, 26 November 2012 - 23:57.

[Muppetmad]

A small front part of the car (the front wing) was there in the last moment of the closing . So do you call space to pass when a driver only has to do is to put a front wing at last moment?

Then you make accidents in all corners... or do you think that F1 is Scaletrix?

I apologise, I misunderstood you. It just seemed a bit bizarre to me to suggest that the car wasn't there, but now you've explained it I see your point.