188 replies to this topic

[MrMontecarlo]

It's time to stop giving him any indulgence. We hear "he has a speed, he is very talented guy". Stop it

I hope it's a end of his career. It's better for Renault to support Pic.

What has Pic showed?

[Vesuvius]

Didn't he put Räikkönen on the grass during one Qualifying? I don't remember where exactly it was, GB, Germany or something like that.

Yes at GB, during the rain condition.

[scandyman]

Only good thing about MadGrog is whether he gets sacked or not his girlfriend maintains her job in the future races.

[artista]

Yes at GB, during the rain condition.

Oh thanks! I just remembered it was cloudy and dark, which meant it had to be north from the Pyrenees

[Fallout]

Only good thing about MadGrog is whether he gets sacked or not his girlfriend maintains her job in the future races.

megusta.jpg

What a lovely lady, I sincerely hope we're graced with her professionalism next year as well

[MortenF1]

As others have said, I knew there was a lot of mistakes, but seeing all his incidents listed; omg, that's insane! His speed is not in doubt, but with that crash-record he really doesn't deserve a second chance.
I asked in the silly-season thread if anyone knew if Total was known to be insistent on their drivers. I know they're not like Slim, but the question is, how big a sponsor are they really, and will Lotus feel they can afford to lose them? (Total has more space on the Red Bull btw)

[metz]

I think we all agree that Boulier has good reason for dumping Grosjean.
But reasons aren't important. He dumped Heidfeld for no reason at all.

[Watkins74]

Seemed like a nice kid with pace and then he had a bunch of first lap accidents. OK....let's give him another chance....and another.

Seems like has sealed his own fate to me.

[artista]

I think we all agree that Boulier has good reason for dumping Grosjean.
But reasons aren't important. He dumped Heidfeld for no reason at all.

In Spanish we say 'Mr Money is a powerful man'

[TheUltimateWorrier]

your theory makes sense -- you are saying because Gros objective is to beat Kimi as opposed to finishing races within his comfort zone. . .

Interesting. Part of me thinks that Lotus signed Raikkonen for this season as they believed Grosjean would beat/match him this year, similar to Hamilton/Alonso in 07, as they see him as the teams long-term 'star'. That hasn't worked out, but I suspect he'll stay next year. When your team boss is also your manager and the chairman of Genii Capital also backs your manager's sports management stable, it's hardly going to be detrimental to Grosjean's chance staying next year .

But team boss Boullier told French-language f1i.com: “We believe in him.

“For us he is a long-term project and we consider him to be similar to (what McLaren did with) Lewis Hamilton.

“He has shown he is able to do superb racing, but then of course there were some errors that sometimes cost him very dearly.

“More recently he has been a bit more cautious and has been building up again, but I am sure that in 2013 we will see the real Romain,” he added.

I think we saw the real Romain this year.

[Yhamm]

Will anyone make an incidents list for each drivers to have a fair comparison?
I always thought it was really stupid to point at one driver mistakes and totally ignore the others.

Edited by Yhamm, 27 November 2012 - 18:13.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Will anyone make an incidents list for each drivers to have a fair comparison?

What's stopping you providing the evidence to support your point, rather than relying on others to do the work for you?

I always thought it was really stupid to point at one driver mistakes and totally ignore the others.

Because the only other driver who's had as many incidents is Maldonado, but he seems to have calmed down.

[Yhamm]

What's stopping you providing the evidence to support your point, rather than relying on others to do the work for you?

because I didn't start making lists

[olliek88]

Hopefully he has a much better 2013 season. I think he's got it in him to impress on a consistent basis. This year was plagued not only by mistakes but also by a lot of bad luck that made things seem a lot worse.

He's a quality driver and not one that I'd like to see out of F1 because of this one difficult season.

He's made mistakes this year, no doubt about it, but things have been compounded by each incident that has occurred, not all of which were his fault. I think since Spa he has tried to drive too cautiously and think about things too much, Suzuka being a prime example for me, which made things worse, its clearly gotten into his head and is messing him up. The same happened to Lewis Hamilton in 2011, he came back this year with a clearer mind and arguably had his best season.

We've seen his peak performances have been high enough to suggest he has the potential to be a very good driver, i just hope he can come back next year with a clear head and put together a consistent run in the fly away races and then i believe we'll get to see the "real" Romain Grosjean.

[metz]

Will anyone make an incidents list for each drivers to have a fair comparison?
I always thought it was really stupid to point at one driver mistakes and totally ignore the others.

Let me start.

List of Drivers in the Last 7 Years that Received Race Bans for Driving Badly

1...R. Grosjeans

[Muppetmad]

Let me start.

List of Drivers in the Last 7 Years that Received Race Bans for Driving Badly

1...R. Grosjeans

It's hard to say Maldonado didn't deserve at least one ban in the past few years as well though.

[DutchQuicksilver]

It's hard to say Maldonado didn't deserve at least one ban in the past few years as well though.

But Maldonado has visibly learned from this. Hasn't been in any incident in the last few races.

[jokuvaan]

http://www.worldcarf...o-keep-grosjean

"The reason he is not yet confirmed for 2013 is because we have not yet had time to sit down and discuss it together with the engineers. Then we'll see.
"My desire is to see Romain in the car, but it depends more on him than me."

Are they actually pondering different options or just a spook tactic to make him drive better from now on?

Only reason that I can think of for delaying this is money, sponsor money, related to different driver options, who can bring what.

Edited by jokuvaan, 27 November 2012 - 22:31.

[Shiroo]

He is fast, but is it possible to fix his racecraft?...

[Sith]

He is fast, but is it possible to fix his racecraft?...

Can't fix it if you haven't got any to begin with...

[William Hunt]

this Grosjean hatred campaign on this forum is really getting embarasing.

[Pothead4Philosopher]

this Grosjean hatred campaign on this forum is really getting embarasing.

Hatred campaign?

I have been very outspoken in my hope that Lotus will replace him. I have even had some fun at his expense, but hatred? -- Nope.

Since you do not elaborate in any shape or form your own thoughts on RG's performance this year, let me ask you this. If he was not a pay-driver, having Boullier as his manager, would you think he would be still driving for Lotus -- and not gone the way Heidfeld did?

I like Romain, I just do not want him to drive in F1 any longer, as 26 races is long enough to evaluate and decide.

Edited by Pothead4Philosopher, 28 November 2012 - 03:19.

[hijinx]

Can't fix it if you haven't got any to begin with...

[Muppetmad]

But Maldonado has visibly learned from this. Hasn't been in any incident in the last few races.

That is true (he was involved in contact with Webber at Abu Dhabi, but I'd say that was a racing incident - if it was Grosjean in his position would everybody count it as another "hit"?), but I'm inclined to say that's beside the point of what metz is saying; to state that Grosjean is the only driver in seven years to receive a ban for dangerous driving is to suggest nobody else has been as dangerous. Meanwhile, Maldonado has used his car as a weapon three times in two years.

In relation to your point though, I'd say that Grosjean was placed in a vicious circle from which it would have been very difficult to escape. The ban knocked his confidence, which made him more conscious of his racecraft, which created more errors, which knocked his confidence, which created more errors... You get the picture. Although this isn't a satisfactory answer, I don't think we can really conclude if Grosjean has learnt from his mistakes this year until the start of next year: when the hysteria from this year has died down a bit and he's had time to reflect on what he needs to do. The same thing happened with Hamilton last year heading into this year, and the same thing happened with Petrov in 2010 heading into 2011.

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 November 2012 - 06:49.

[One]

Romain got raw speed, I do think, but he is not listning to the treack, in a sense that he keeps on doing the same stuff each time. This is a trouble for team as well as for him. He thought away point because he is a bit too careless and arrognat to other drivers and to the situation on the race track..., that is the impression I think. ON TV he looks like a good guy who is not arrogant, but that is something else. It looks like he is stiff in adjusting in the situation when racing scene develops, that is perhaps.

I think that he deserves a second chance, but the point is that there are another driver who can score more. Doing more aggressive strategy to employee three drivers can nbe a solution in this situation. Give Romain the track he excelled and the rest to Koba. Strange proposal, but it makes me think that there was NO driver who got race ban in the recent histroy of formula one, as long as I can recall....

[Vesuvius]

from GrandPrixDiary twitter:
Rumour that Lotus want more money from sponsor Total to keep Grosjean for
2013. Total are in the middle of a road safety
campaign and that..
..doesn't sit well with Romain
having so many crashes, so they aren't so keen.
Is that called a Total Recoil?

[swerved]

from GrandPrixDiary twitter:
Rumour that Lotus want more money from sponsor Total to keep Grosjean for
2013. Total are in the middle of a road safety
campaign and that..
..doesn't sit well with Romain
having so many crashes, so they aren't so keen.
Is that called a Total Recoil?

Just read this also, apparently from Amus though being repeated elsewhere

“Many suspect that Gerard Lopez will persuade Grosjean’s sponsor Total to spend more money,” read the report by correspondents Tobias Grunen and Michael Schmidt.

“But even Total has a problem with this protege. The French oil company has a safety campaign for public roads, and the face of a ‘crash driver’ doesn’t fit.”

http://www.f1zone.ne...at-lotus/17057/

[nomi]

Good business from Lopez to squeeze Total for more money, after all Total pushed for Grosjean French driver.

[eronrules]

from GrandPrixDiary twitter:
Rumour that Lotus want more money from sponsor Total to keep Grosjean for
2013. Total are in the middle of a road safety
campaign and that..
..doesn't sit well with Romain
having so many crashes, so they aren't so keen.
Is that called a Total Recoil?

i think what Lopez meant was Sponsorhip + damage caution money + publicity damage allowances , it'll be a hard bargain as Total is now sponsoring 2 French drivers. but if i were Total Boss men (which i'm not ) i'd swap Pic with Grosjean for a cooldown period, make no mistake RG is blindingly fast on his days, but most of the days he's just pure Blind.

[BackOnTop]

Romain got raw speed, I do think, but he is not listning to the treack, in a sense that he keeps on doing the same stuff each time. This is a trouble for team as well as for him. He thought away point because he is a bit too careless and arrognat to other drivers and to the situation on the race track..., that is the impression I think. ON TV he looks like a good guy who is not arrogant, but that is something else. It looks like he is stiff in adjusting in the situation when racing scene develops, that is perhaps.

I think that he deserves a second chance, but the point is that there are another driver who can score more. Doing more aggressive strategy to employee three drivers can nbe a solution in this situation. Give Romain the track he excelled and the rest to Koba. Strange proposal, but it makes me think that there was NO driver who got race ban in the recent histroy of formula one, as long as I can recall....

Inconclusive!! A few qualifying gains is good so far, but raw paced drivers don't go backwards to their team-mate during raceday. Kimi & Hamilton for example.

I'd say Grosjean got Good Speed, on a Good Day so far. So did De laRosa & Alex Wurz who were good enough to finish on the podium.

Kimi Raikkonen & Lewis Hamilton got Raw Speed. They finish on Podium on decent days & on good days, win races.

[wepmob2000]

He seems really likable, and definitely has the raw speed, but there's also a lot of good drivers who haven't done as many stupid things who are in lesser seats or out of F1....

If I was in charge at Renault-'Lotus' I'd be phoning Nick Heidfeld to see what he's doing next year, Renault need a fast and steady No-2.

Edited by wepmob2000, 28 November 2012 - 19:24.

[MortenF1]

He seems really likable, and definitely has the raw speed, but there's also a lot of good drivers who haven't done as many stupid things who are in lesser seats or out of F1....

If I was in charge at Renault I'd be phoning Nick Heidfeld to see what he's doing next year, Renault need a fast and steady No-2.

Heidfeld will never come back to Enstone, I'm pretty sure.

[wepmob2000]

Heidfeld will never come back to Enstone, I'm pretty sure.

Probably true, but its really Renault's loss (I cannot think of this team as 'Lotus', they are to Lotus what I am to championship clog-dancing)

Edited by wepmob2000, 28 November 2012 - 19:26.

[seahawk]

He seems really likable, and definitely has the raw speed, but there's also a lot of good drivers who haven't done as many stupid things who are in lesser seats or out of F1....

If I was in charge at Renault-'Lotus' I'd be phoning Nick Heidfeld to see what he's doing next year, Renault need a fast and steady No-2.

Heidfeld, I doubt but Glock for example should be an option. (Sutil too but that is even more unlikely than Heidfeld)

[gm914]

http://www.f1zone.ne...at-lotus/17057/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's 6 teams that have been interested in Kovalainen this year, according to Finnish MTV3.

If Bild played music videos, we'd have a real battle on our hands

[seahawk]

Alguesuari might be an option. There was always the rumor that CEPSA backed him and CEPSA belonged to Total when the sponsor deal with STR was signed.

[wepmob2000]

Heidfeld, I doubt but Glock for example should be an option. (Sutil too but that is even more unlikely than Heidfeld)

Any of these three would be excellent, all proven, fast, and reliable drivers.

[Red17]

Alguesuari might be an option. There was always the rumor that CEPSA backed him and CEPSA belonged to Total when the sponsor deal with STR was signed.

CEPSA made it quite clear from the start that the sponsorship was not driver related.

[tarmac]

He really got mentally destroyed in Hungary and then it was just downhill