21 replies to this topic

[Bean]

This is one of the rules/procedures that has baffled me for years now. When a safety car comes into the pits, you're allowed to pass immediately after the safety car line, which is usually before the final turn. However, if there's a safety car near the end of the race, it will ALWAYS peel into the pits on the final lap even if there are still problems on the track... but the rules say you CAN'T overtake on the final lap in this situation. In 2010 Michael Schumacher got caught by this at Monaco. In the confusion, he passed Alonso coming into final turn and was penalized 20 seconds for it after the race (it confused the marshals too, as they began waving green flags in front of him). It happened in Australia a couple years back as well... the safety car came in on the final lap and the drivers gunned it for the line.... even though they weren't allowed to pass.

The only thing the current procedure serves to do is cause confusion. In that confusion, there are tremendous safety risks. What if some drivers think the race is on to the flag, and the rest don't? Today in Brazil, on the final lap there was a stationary car at the final turn... the most dangerous part of the circuit... and yet they STILL let the safety car peel into the pits in the same exact area, creating the potential for chaos. Drivers may be told by their teams over the radio: "no overtaking, even though the safety car is coming in".... but what if they don't have radio? I imagine that this would be even more confusing to a rookie coming into the sport.

What would prevent all of this confusion? The answer is obvious: Just let the safety car lead the pack over the line. So why, in this age of doing everything possible to increase safety, does the FIA not make this most simple of procedure changes?

Am I missing something here?

[sergeym]

I guess the reason for this is to avoid SC "winning" the race by being first to cross finish line.

[ClubmanGT]

I wanted Schumacher to overtake everyone at the end so badly.

[DarthWillie]

Drivers should just know this

[chdphd]

It's so we get nice videos/photos of the winner crossing the finish line.

[Martijn]

Actually the rule was changed ("explained") after that Schumacher/ Monaco incident and a penalty applied based on this "explanation" that didnt exist at the time of the incident.

Still one of the weirdest penalties i've witnessed and an absolute disgrace at the time. Alonso got schooled theres no denying.

[lustigson]

In Schumacher's case, the rule was relatively new, wasn't it? For yesterday's Grand Prix, it was the way it was. (No safety car looks better on photos, I reckon.)

[froggy22]

lets not forget that there were yellow flags as well, so no overtaking would be legal anyway

[Mr.Wayne]

In Schumacher's case, the rule was relatively new, wasn't it? For yesterday's Grand Prix, it was the way it was. (No safety car looks better on photos, I reckon.)

There was no rule in Schumacher's case. The safety car was called in, and as per regulations, racing was resumed as usual. After Monaco 2010, the rules were changed so that racing on the final lap would be forbidden.
In Monaco 2010, Schumacher got penalized for making an overtaking move consistent with the regulations, under green flag conditions. That was, coincidently, the first and last race Damon Hill was an invited steward.

[sharo]

It's simply to avoid a Mercedes car crossing the line first Might create a false perception.

[lustigson]

There was no rule in Schumacher's case. The safety car was called in, and as per regulations, racing was resumed as usual. After Monaco 2010, the rules were changed so that racing on the final lap would be forbidden.
In Monaco 2010, Schumacher got penalized for making an overtaking move consistent with the regulations, under green flag conditions. That was, coincidently, the first and last race Damon Hill was an invited steward.

OK, I was under the impression that said rule had already been introduced, but the Schumacher incident probably triggerd it, then.

[engel]

The rule existed in Monaco 2010. The wording was just wrong for Monaco. It said

"If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

The thing is the safety car, in Monaco 2010, peeled off the race on the penultimate lap. So technically the race was not ending behind the safety car so technically Schumacher had every right to overtake.

It was subsequently cleared up to say:

"If the safety car is still deployed at the beginning of the last lap, or is deployed during the last lap, it will enter the pit lane at the end of the lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

[blackhand2010]

Whilst I know it probably wouldn't work in an F1 situation, but I do prefer the BTCC way of doing things; adding any laps spent under the safety car to the length of the race so the race will finish as a race.

[FredrikB]

It's so we get nice videos/photos of the winner crossing the finish line.

That. No other reason.

[Rob]

It's so we get nice videos/photos of the winner crossing the finish line.

It's daft. It's trying to pretend that the safety car wasn't there. Who cares if it's in the photos? Just leave it out.

[lustigson]

IndyCar has a similar rule, doesn't it? Green-White-Chequered?

[Jejking]

Good that you mention the yellows were still out. I was waiting for Alonso to blast past them and do an actual Monaco 2010 and let it come to the green table. That was his only chance really but with the yellow flags that was impossible.

[Atreiu]

It's stupid, keep the SC out, instruct the drivers to create a big enough gap for silly finish line photographs.

[One]

Whilst I know it probably wouldn't work in an F1 situation, but I do prefer the BTCC way of doing things; adding any laps spent under the safety car to the length of the race so the race will finish as a race.

[30ft penguin]

The rule existed in Monaco 2010. The wording was just wrong for Monaco. It said

"If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

The thing is the safety car, in Monaco 2010, peeled off the race on the penultimate lap. So technically the race was not ending behind the safety car so technically Schumacher had every right to overtake.

It was subsequently cleared up to say:

"If the safety car is still deployed at the beginning of the last lap, or is deployed during the last lap, it will enter the pit lane at the end of the lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

True. The problem was that the situation was ambiguous. The rules back then did not really distinguish between the situation "safety car period ends on the last lap and the drivers can race until the finish line" and "safety car period does NOT end on the last lap and there will be no racing until the finish line", because in both situations, the safety car would enter the pit lane on the last lap. So when, on the last lap of the race, the message "safety car in this lap" appeared on the TV screen, Schumacher etc. interpreted this as "the safety car period will be over and racing will be allowed from the white line at the pit lane entrance", because that message was exactly what WOULD have appeared on the screen in that situation.

So it was a case of "yes, it is true, the situation was ambiguous and your interpretation might have been valid, but we do not like it, so here's your penalty". And then they changed the rules so that it now is 100% clear that if the safety car is out at the START of the last lap, the race WILL ALWAYS end under safety car rules, even though the safety car will drive into the pit lane.

[RockyRaccoon68]

Actually the rule was changed ("explained") after that Schumacher/ Monaco incident and a penalty applied based on this "explanation" that didnt exist at the time of the incident.

Still one of the weirdest penalties i've witnessed and an absolute disgrace at the time. Alonso got schooled theres no denying.

Alonso got schooled? He was told over his radio that there was no overtaking!! Nothing quite like being objective, is there?

[JRodrigues]

lets not forget that there were yellow flags as well, so no overtaking would be legal anyway

There's nothing else to discuss.