97 replies to this topic

[bourbon]

The problem with that approach is that you cannot fool all of your readers all the time. Some people are going to recognize when a newspaper/-portal is twisting stories and telling outright lies in order to attract more readers. The tabloids may not give a flying fart about this but other newspapers that have a reputation to lose will shoot themselves in the foot in the long term.

The majority of the readers don't give a shake. My grandpa is no way going to cancel his subscription to El Pais merely because of some hyped or even wrong article about Alonso and F1. He doesn't do so when the sports pages malign his beloved Barca. Even when he calls the paper trash, he's back to reading it the next morning, lol. It is largely infortainment - politics is a different matter of course, but sports and entertainment not so much.

[Skinnyguy]

The objective of papers is to sell, to make money, no matter how. In this case, they print what most people want to read and will make them buy the papers. Ethics in reporting the truth? Nahh, the important thing is the end result.

But F1 has been popular in Spain for nealy 10 years now. Surely a good part of the fanbase is not utter ignorant anymore. Proper F1 information would sell here.

You read the comments section in the news web and there´s a lot of people wondering what on Earth are they on. If it depended on Spanish F1 fanbase, I´m pretty sure Miquel, Lobato, Romojarro and all that rubbish would be on loooong holidays for sure. Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish fans that would do their job better than they do.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 28 November 2012 - 21:23.

[KnucklesAgain]

For a decent job I would have expected better then that. It about proving that it is illegal not proving it is legal.



In any case I have to defend the rest of the recent F1 coverage of El Pais. They have done a pretty good job and are my favorite Spanish newspaper for other reasons as well.

I remember all too well the way Lewis was treated by some of the very same newspapers. Nationalistic c*** at it's finest. It is not black and white but the Spanish newspapers seems to gravitate more towards the black then let us say the German one, which has also it's Bild but a broader quality press.

And the F1 articles in the quality press are complete and utter rubbish.

Edit:

But F1 has been popular in Spain for nealy 10 years now. Surely a good part of the fanbase is not utter ignorant anymore. Proper F1 information would sell here.

You read the comments section in the news web and there´s a lot of people wondering what on Earth are they on. If it depended on Spanish F1 fanbase, I´m pretty sure Miquel, Lobato, Romojarro and all that rubbish would be on loooong holidays for sure. Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish fans that would do their job better than they do.

It's the same in Germany, and they had nearly continuous 25 years of F1 dominance, 7 drivers in the field at times, and a history before that. RTL carried F1 for 25 years (after the public stations gave up because of cost), and they completely failed to nurture a knowledgeable audience beyond the motorsport enthusiast circles (which of course make decent numbers, but obviously still completely disappear in the masses). The RTL F1 team is terrible: pits reporter Kai Ebel is simply unbelievably dumb and without knowledge, race commentator Wasser is less annoying but doesn't know anything either, and the pre-race reporter König is a failure as well. They have Lauda and Christian Danner, but they are being dragged down by the other idiots. "Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish German fans that would do their job better than they do." And the articles in the general press are rubbish, as I mentioned.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 28 November 2012 - 21:37.

[Skinnyguy]

It's the same in Germany, and they had nearly continuous 25 years of F1 dominance, 7 drivers in the field at times, and a history before that. RTL carried F1 for 25 years (after the public stations gave up because of cost), and they completely failed to nurture a knowledgeable audience beyond the motorsport enthusiast circles (which of course make decent numbers, but obviously still completely disappear in the masses). The RTL F1 team is terrible: pits reporter Kai Ebel is simply unbelievably dumb and without knowledge, race commentator Wasser is less annoying but doesn't know anything either, and the pre-race reporter König is a failure as well. They have Lauda and Christian Danner, but they are being dragged down by the other idiots. "Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish German fans that would do their job better than they do." And the articles in the general press are rubbish, as I mentioned.

Sad to hear that´s the case there too mate. I can´t judge because I don´t know german, can´t read it or understand it at all.

I was surprised when there was people complaining about James Allen back in early 2000´s. Yes, he was shouty, and a bit biased, but it was a dream compared to what we had to stand: He praised his favourites and got excited when they were doing well, but he DID know his stuff and respected and rated rivals fairly. Yet he was always getting stick. I guess British fans had higher standards.

[1Devil1]

And the F1 articles in the quality press are complete and utter rubbish.

Edit:



It's the same in Germany, and they had nearly continuous 25 years of F1 dominance, 7 drivers in the field at times, and a history before that. RTL carried F1 for 25 years (after the public stations gave up because of cost), and they completely failed to nurture a knowledgeable audience beyond the motorsport enthusiast circles (which of course make decent numbers, but obviously still completely disappear in the masses). The RTL F1 team is terrible: pits reporter Kai Ebel is simply unbelievably dumb and without knowledge, race commentator Wasser is less annoying but doesn't know anything either, and the pre-race reporter König is a failure as well. They have Lauda and Christian Danner, but they are being dragged down by the other idiots. "Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish German fans that would do their job better than they do." And the articles in the general press are rubbish, as I mentioned.

Can't agree as german user. RTL is a mess media company which relies on having a huge amount of viewers of course they stay on national topics, Vettel-Mania or Schumacher. To get a lot of people in front of the TV you need a simple concept. But as formula one "expert" you can switch to SKY or bother to try british TV. It will be the same in every country - money makes the world go around. But to dismiss the whole german market is bullocks. You have a lot of websites like AMuS (user of this forum use AMuS as reliable source) or F1total.com having a certain credibility. It's not a perfect market but not as bad as you want to describe. Formula One in Germany is not only RTL

Edited by 1Devil1, 28 November 2012 - 22:14.

[KnucklesAgain]

Can't agree as german user. RTL is a mess media company which relies on having a huge amount of viewers of course they stay on national topics, Vettel-Mania or Schumacher. To get a lot of people in front of the TV you need a simple concept. But as formula one "expert" you can switch to SKY or bother to try british TV. It will be the same in every country - money makes the world go around. But to dismiss the whole german market is bullocks. You have a lot of websites like AMuS (user of this forum use AMuS as reliable source) or F1total.com having a certain credibility. It's not a perfect market but not as bad as you want to describe. Formula One in Germany is not only RTL

That's what I said, the enthusiasts are numerous, but you will agree that they are not noticed in the general media. And yes there is AMuS, but their website comments are empty. As far as RTL goes, yes I know their business model. That does not change the fact that the coverage is bad (edit: and I don't mean focus on German drivers. Of course that can be expected and in fact was better re Vettel than re MS. I mean the general quality of the commentary. Ebel gets to talk to team bosses and drivers all the time, and regularly embarrasses himdelf, going on for 25 years. The best you can hope for is he asks a boring question). Wasser (and Danner did not object) said regularly, during the commentary, until at least 2011 (not sure right now about 2012), that when they talk about "purple times" they are referring to the color in the timing screen, "which unfortunately the viewers at home cannot see". Just a tiny example - it's inconceivable how anyone who concerns himself with F1 professionally can be unaware of LT.

And no, not everyone in Germany can get Sky. I cannot use satellite in my Berlin apartment, and the cable company proved unable to provide me with cable. Because DVB-T quality is spotty I use IP TV via Telekom, and they cannot agree on terms with Sky.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 28 November 2012 - 22:31.

[Miggeex]

Moneymoneymoney

Like someone said: stage of denial. Happens every time if some nation's own driver loses with a small margin. Possible explanations sells.

They aren't writing their own opinions. They are writing what the readers wants to read. And I'm talking about F1 media in general.

[artista]

And the F1 articles in the quality press are complete and utter rubbish.

Edit:



It's the same in Germany, and they had nearly continuous 25 years of F1 dominance, 7 drivers in the field at times, and a history before that. RTL carried F1 for 25 years (after the public stations gave up because of cost), and they completely failed to nurture a knowledgeable audience beyond the motorsport enthusiast circles (which of course make decent numbers, but obviously still completely disappear in the masses). The RTL F1 team is terrible: pits reporter Kai Ebel is simply unbelievably dumb and without knowledge, race commentator Wasser is less annoying but doesn't know anything either, and the pre-race reporter König is a failure as well. They have Lauda and Christian Danner, but they are being dragged down by the other idiots. "Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish German fans that would do their job better than they do." And the articles in the general press are rubbish, as I mentioned.

Sadly (for me, since I'm Spanish), I can assure you RTL is many, many times better than the Spanish TV.
I agree in your description of Ebel and Waßer but, at least, they don't insult drivers (for example, Lobato has called several times Räikkönen 'insensitive amoeba' or simply refers to him as 'the amoeba'), they don't insult spectators (a couple of weeks ago, Lobato said non-alonsists are abnormal and suggested something about not being good Spaniards), and they talk about what's going on in the race and don't focus just on Vettel (in Spanish TV, Gené usually has to poin Lobato out that something important is going on, like a crash or an impressive pass, because Lobato only talks about Alonso and the 'magic' he does).

I was living in Germany during the years of the Schumacher dominance and, even if I don't like Schumi, I never felt attacked or felt the other drivers were being belittled on TV. You can compare that with what our TV said last week commenting Schumacher's new retirement and the 'thank you' in his helmet: they said something about Schumacher of course having to say 'thank you' because we had to stand his two pathetic years since his return. Yes, they used the word 'pathetic' and, yes, they din't even know Schumacher returned for 3 years.

I have installed a satellite receiver in my place, and I watch the races in German. It's 1000 times better.

Plus, you guys have some really good written media. AMuS is really reliable. I've had the pleasure to see how Michael Schmidt works and that's a real professional who checks his informations (and he's a really nice guy, too, always ready to help. A gentleman)

[repete]

Could you please provide that evidence (I have asked in the other thread too), instead of sighing, which is neither useful nor constructive? Thanks.

This is lap 4, track marshall on left is waving an obvious green flag.

http://s7.directuplo...28/xq7wq2yp.gif

If you think that flag is yellow, then you have other problems.

All this has been posted numerous times in the other threads.

[1Devil1]

That's what I said, the enthusiasts are numerous, but you will agree that they are not noticed in the general media. And yes there is AMuS, but their website comments are empty. As far as RTL goes, yes I know their business model. That does not change the fact that the coverage is bad (edit: and I don't mean focus on German drivers. Of course that can be expected and in fact was better re Vettel than re MS. I mean the general quality of the commentary. Ebel gets to talk to team bosses and drivers all the time, and regularly embarrasses himdelf, going on for 25 years. The best you can hope for is he asks a boring question). Wasser (and Danner did not object) said regularly, during the commentary, until at least 2011 (not sure right now about 2012), that when they talk about "purple times" they are referring to the color in the timing screen, "which unfortunately the viewers at home cannot see". Just a tiny example - it's inconceivable how anyone who concerns himself with F1 professionally can be unaware of LT.

And no, not everyone in Germany can get Sky. I cannot use satellite in my Berlin apartment, and the cable company proved unable to provide me with cable. Because DVB-T quality is spotty I use IP TV via Telekom, and they cannot agree on terms with Sky.

General Media is a market for the for the normal guy watching the races without live timing, a bottle of beer and Vettel flag behind his couch. I don't not get the point because you have the same phenomena in other countries. I used to live in spain for six month and the coverage was bad as in Germany. Alonso here, Alonso there. Your only opportunity as enthusiast is to use others channels/distribution. In times of internet it is easy to set up your computer to watch other channels in Britain for example. If you are interested in the sport and don't like the the general media presentation you find your way to satisfy yourself. This intension of this thread was that it seemed all spanish papers went mad and jumped on the wagon "Vettel has overtaken under yellow" before checking the obvious facts. For Germany except of Bild I can't see that happening.

[nada12]

The problem with that approach is that you cannot fool all of your readers all the time. Some people are going to recognize when a newspaper/-portal is twisting stories and telling outright lies in order to attract more readers. The tabloids may not give a flying fart about this but other newspapers that have a reputation to lose will shoot themselves in the foot in the long term.

Bourbon has touched on it already, but still: You'd think they'd lose those readers who see through the BS but from what I've experienced few people are actually willing to hold their habitual news outlet accountable when they realize that they're being fed crappy journalism. They'll bitch to everybody how bad the paper is, but at the end of the day the majority will still continue to consume it out of habit or unwillingness to change. If everybody held their papers accountable and stopped buying it I don't think this issue would arise.

[LiJu914]

This intension of this thread was that it seemed all spanish papers went mad and jumped on the wagon "Vettel has overtaken under yellow" before checking the obvious facts.For Germany except of Bild I can't see that happening.

No ? AMuS-report

As you can see, their research is lousy. They didn´t even get the Kobayashi incident right.
Since the age of the internet journos have become specialists in one area: Copy&paste + rephrase.

Edited by LiJu914, 28 November 2012 - 22:59.

[1Devil1]

No ? AMuS-report

As you can see, their research is lousy. They didn´t even get the Kobayashi incident right.
Since the age of the internet journos have become specialists in one area: Copy&paste + rephrase.

I read the article. They didn't claim Vettel overtook under yellow just rephrasing what youtube user or spanish media thought. It is a different approach to quote or rephrase a source or saying a driver did obvious something wrong and need to be punished. In the last part they argue regardless of Vettel did something wrong or not he cannot be punished anymore so in their view it makes no sense to check this situation again. I guess not every journo has the whole day time to sit here and wait for another gif. I can't see what AmuS did here wrong - common technic

[LiJu914]

Well they "jumped on the wagon" as you phrased it - their tone is secondary.

And regarding time:
The Kobayashi-incident was already clarified on sunday evening and AMuS didn´t get the facts straight on wednesday...


It´s not like i´m annoyed by the german media - but i don´t think journalistic manners are oh so different from country to country.

[1Devil1]

Well they "jumped on the wagon" as you phrased it - their tone is secondary.

And regarding time:
The Kobayashi-incident was already clarified on sunday evening and AMuS didn´t get the facts straight on wednesday...


It´s not like i´m annoyed by the german media - but i don´t think journalistic manners are oh so different from country to country.

I think that is a good point, I don't know what the spanish media wrote in their articles if they referred to other source in a normal, mature tone I see no problem. But if you have every where headlines liked "Alonso was robbed" it would be a different situation. So what was the tone of these articles we have to know? Spanish natives?

[showtime]

Since I see some people are sincerely interested on the matter. Just to clarify I have avoided all the overtaking under yellow flags thing so don't have an opinion on the matter, I just don't care.

Someone asked why this media have readers if people who follows F1 surely would be aware of the poor journalism. The answer is rather easy, controversy news sell and they lure readers that generally don't pay attention to F1 news. I know people that barely know the name of the second driver of RBR or haven't seen a race before Sunday but yesterday they were talking about how Alonso has been robbed. As I said before F1 fans in Spain with knowledge enough to have a little bit of objectivity don't read sport media or sport sections on general media because they are s**t.
On the matter of why the media covering F1 is so bad the key word is ignorance. Before 2001 there were only a few journalist that could talk about F1 with some basis, most of them working for magazines. When Alonso raised TV and papers had a new source of news but instead of looking for pundits they decided to take journalist with zero knowledge to do the work, hoping they would learn during the process because... who is going to realize? For example, Lobato covered cycling, football and for a while he presented the sport section of the TV news. The truth is Spanish media is full of "specialist" that don't have a clue about F1 and the only interesting things you can read are some opinion columns from people related to motor racing. I'm pretty sure that if they are wrong on what they are reporting about the overtake of Vettel is not true is not because they are lying but because they smelled controversy and Alonso being the victim and they went for it ignoring the basic steps of reporting. Spanish forumers will agree that is common to see these websites having piece of news reporting the opposite to what they were reporting the day before, they have been caught several times using pics or news from Internet without caring to check them (specially hilarious was the time someone twitted them a photoshop of a football player going for a walk in Madrid and they made up a whole history of him doing the medical test). I can deal with national bias even if I don't think it's the way to go but what I found disgraceful is having to read/listen to journalist posing as specialist talking BS and when someone has a question that requires a little bit of knowledge they don't know how to scape from the trouble. I mean, it's not only where they came from but how is possible that someone like Carlos Miquel who has been covering F1 for more 10 years, having the chance to speak with the drivers, the engineers... with time and access to all the information he wants could have been so clueless? Even the pit reporter that has been there for 3 seasons and zero experience makes more sense than him! Believe me there's a lot more of ignorance than malice, I'm sure they are completely convinced about what they are reporting.

Once said that I have read a lot of British press and they have their own share of fanatics, the same for Germans.

[AlexS]

Journalist quality is bad overall, titles that don't match the text, he said/she said journalism, opinion inserted into news, increasingly fluff, "fait divers" and partisanship, i see it everywhere even in specialised magazines: from Military to CAD to 3D.

[gurney]

Married to a spanish wife it was really not nice to see how the spanish race media works and it is getting worse as my spanish is improving.
It is funny to see people here complain about the British media beeing biased. You aint seen nothing yet unless you have seen the Spanish race media at work. It is all about one man (and the odd shout out to PDLR).

And don't get me started on the Asturian (my wife is from Asturias) broadcast of the GP's.. it is hillarious in brief:
Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Asturias Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso, the german does something...Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso, The Englisman goes around a corner Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso Alonso, The Australian brakes for something, they don't even bother to learn the names of the other drivers.

Ofcourse there are good journalist aswell in the spanish media but what gets fed to the masses is in general horrendous, in big lines the whole world is out to get Alonso and Spain that is there struggle and the rest...there is no rest.
BBC, Sky as mass media or the Dutch TV which I also understand are very, very, very objective compared to annything I have seen in Spain.

[Bruce]

Whats wrong with Spanish tabloid media?

I suspect most tabloid media in any country suffers from sensationalism at various times.

Exactly.

[Creepy]

Well in the German media today I saw an article with the heading "Alonso Once Again a Sore Loser", and the "evidence" for this was a quote in which he said, "we didn't win the title, but we won the respect of everyone in the paddock this year and they saw we were the best." The same German media who applauded Schumacher's pathetic and unsporting pulling over to let Vettel by but then scream about unfairness any time Massa has helped Alonso out.
It's just dumb nationalistic journalism and every country has it.

Yep, it's not just a Spanish thing, finally someone who aknowledge this here.

EDIT: wow, I see others did too! I'm shocked!

They write what they expect the Spanish reader wants to read. The Contador saga was quite similar in this regard. In this sense the bar for quality is not set all too high.

Note that not even El Pais is doing a half-decent job.

In the end that happens if you let you bias disturb your judgement.

You talk like if "El País" was a nice media, while actually it's not. It's hugely biased while reporting stuff related to the financial crisis and the government. Their section in English is OK most of the times though, but sometimes it stinks to bias too.

El País used to be cute during the nineties, or maybe it wasn't even great back then and I just believe so because I was just too young

Edited by Creepy, 29 November 2012 - 00:56.

[Creepy]

Sadly (for me, since I'm Spanish), I can assure you RTL is many, many times better than the Spanish TV.
I agree in your description of Ebel and Waßer but, at least, they don't insult drivers (for example, Lobato has called several times Räikkönen 'insensitive amoeba' or simply refers to him as 'the amoeba'), they don't insult spectators (a couple of weeks ago, Lobato said non-alonsists are abnormal and suggested something about not being good Spaniards), and they talk about what's going on in the race and don't focus just on Vettel (in Spanish TV, Gené usually has to poin Lobato out that something important is going on, like a crash or an impressive pass, because Lobato only talks about Alonso and the 'magic' he does).

That about Kimi and Lobato was a thing of the past. He DID talk about him in such terms, but I don't think it's something that stands in the present time now. Just saying because you used present tense there and I think that's unfair now.

About the fans... I don't think it's really a big deal, I don't think that was an insult really, just some of his usual "idas de olla" to hail Alonso and his fans.

And I don't think Lobato only talks about Alonso, but I'd concede he does for most of the race. He also talks about other drivers and teams, but yeah, he's pretty focused on Alonso.

But well, I agree with you that Lobato's someone prone to be disliked. I do dislike him and I'm a hard die Alonso fan! But remember that technically Gene also belongs "to the Spanish press" (and Pedro will likely join soon again) so not even in A3 everything is so bad.

Edited by Creepy, 29 November 2012 - 01:44.

[nomi]

Is this Lobato prick an F1 expert ?

Does he have any racing technical qualifications?

Was he a racing driver before?

To have this racist prick on TV shows the standard Spanish have.

[Creepy]

Is this Lobato prick an F1 expert ?

Does he have any racing technical qualifications?

Was he a racing driver before?

To have this racist prick on TV shows the standard Spanish have.

Wow, that part in bold was a cheap attack.

And Lobato may be a lot of things, a hugely disliked commentator (as I pointed out, I dislike him too), but racist? Not everybody with such hair cut is a racist.

Edited by Creepy, 29 November 2012 - 02:23.

[nomi]

Spanish TV lacks competition that's why their standards is low, alot of their shows are hideous.

[prty]

No, it´s not the same everywhere.

-Spanish tabloids did report this crap story / other country´s tabloids would surely report this story.

-Spanish serious general press and media did report this crap story / other country´s serious general press and medio wouldn´t have reported this crap story.

-Spanish motorsport websites report this story / other country´s motorsport websites DID NOT report this story.

Uh-oh:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20531638
http://www1.skysport..._medium=twitter
http://www.jamesalle...#comment-686262

Anything else? Do you consider BBC a tabloid?

Edited by prty, 29 November 2012 - 02:38.

[Creepy]

Spanish TV lacks competition that's why their standards is low, alot of their shows are hideous.

The Spanish TV lacks competition regarding F1, but that's because Bernie asks just too much money (only A3 and TV3 could buy the rights in Spain).

Edited by Creepy, 29 November 2012 - 02:46.

[CrucialXtreme]

The Spanish TV lacks competition regarding F1, but that's because Bernie asks just too much money (only A3 and TV3 could buy the rights in Spain).

This is absolutely true mate. While in the states I saw that the US coverage, SpeedTV broadcasts their coverage from the headquarters in the US and only sends one guy to the races. They watch the world feed and comment from there. That shows that Bernie is asking for a lot of money. That & F1 viewership in the states is relatively low. But I will say the US F1 coverage is much much less biased than British commentary. Not even remotely close.

As for this Spanish media thing, it seems like many people are just having a go at them because they obviously prefer one driver who happens to be Spanish. All kinds of British commentators/journos have spoke of the incident on twitter since Sunday. No they haven't said Alonso was robbed but its definitely been talked about by many different media outlets not just Spanish media. Of course I would expect them to lean torwards Alonso because obviously because they're Spanish. Much the same way the British fawn over Lewis or Jenson, or the Germans over Seb or Michael. Do you think Japan doesn't focus on KOB?

It does seem Spanish journos have went a little too far, but they report what sells and it's not like others have not done the same. Personally I wish this **** would just be over so we can all start to focus on 2013. Long live F1

[BRG]

But I will say the US F1 coverage is much much less biased than British commentary. Not even remotely close.

You mean that the US coverage is even handed and doesn't concentrate especially on the American drivers and teams? That's very creditable.

[g1n]

Biased local media? Never in my lifetime.

[artista]

That about Kimi and Lobato was a thing of the past. He DID talk about him in such terms, but I don't think it's something that stands in the present time now. Just saying because you used present tense there and I think that's unfair now.

About the fans... I don't think it's really a big deal, I don't think that was an insult really, just some of his usual "idas de olla" to hail Alonso and his fans.

And I don't think Lobato only talks about Alonso, but I'd concede he does for most of the race. He also talks about other drivers and teams, but yeah, he's pretty focused on Alonso.

But well, I agree with you that Lobato's someone prone to be disliked. I do dislike him and I'm a hard die Alonso fan! But remember that technically Gene also belongs "to the Spanish press" (and Pedro will likely join soon again) so not even in A3 everything is so bad.

Adam, where have you been watching the F1 lately?
The guy went back to the 'amoeba' thing a few races back, during a free practice, the weekend Nira interviewed Räikkönen for the 'previo'. That's why I used the present tense. Even more, spectators complained about him calling Räikkönen amoeba and then he kept on using it to show how much he was over everything.
And that's not been the only name calling this year; I remember a free practice where he insulted Ralf Schumacher out of the blue, even if the guy is not in F1 any more.
I consider driver name-calling simply unacceptable.

I don't have so many hopes Pedro will be back commenting the races, that would mean he would have to travel to all races and if he isn't a team's test driver it won't happen I would live to have him back on that TV room, though, I always liked his way of commenting the races.

[Skinnyguy]

First of all, I apologize if the thread name was a breach of the rules of some sort, as the name was changed without me doing anything.

It wasn´t my intention to denigrate any group of people because I felt like that, I just pointed my finger there because the treatment of the flag-gate in the Spanish media was repulsive. So again, sorry if I broke the rules in some way.

[KnucklesAgain]

Sadly (for me, since I'm Spanish), I can assure you RTL is many, many times better than the Spanish TV.
I agree in your description of Ebel and Waßer but, at least, they don't insult drivers (for example, Lobato has called several times Räikkönen 'insensitive amoeba' or simply refers to him as 'the amoeba'), they don't insult spectators (a couple of weeks ago, Lobato said non-alonsists are abnormal and suggested something about not being good Spaniards), and they talk about what's going on in the race and don't focus just on Vettel (in Spanish TV, Gené usually has to poin Lobato out that something important is going on, like a crash or an impressive pass, because Lobato only talks about Alonso and the 'magic' he does).

I was living in Germany during the years of the Schumacher dominance and, even if I don't like Schumi, I never felt attacked or felt the other drivers were being belittled on TV. You can compare that with what our TV said last week commenting Schumacher's new retirement and the 'thank you' in his helmet: they said something about Schumacher of course having to say 'thank you' because we had to stand his two pathetic years since his return. Yes, they used the word 'pathetic' and, yes, they din't even know Schumacher returned for 3 years.

I have installed a satellite receiver in my place, and I watch the races in German. It's 1000 times better.

Plus, you guys have some really good written media. AMuS is really reliable. I've had the pleasure to see how Michael Schmidt works and that's a real professional who checks his informations (and he's a really nice guy, too, always ready to help. A gentleman)

Thanks for the info, sounds horrible. Though I have to say, as a Hill fan in Schu's early years, that the RTL guys did insult Hill. Thankfully much of the time I had English-language Eurosport with Ben Edwards and John Watson, the best commentary ever.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 30 November 2012 - 01:43.

[ArnageWRC]

I've no idea what percentage of the Spanish press is trash, but I'm surprised they're still at it. Most of the British tabloids would of been back to football by now.

How many of the British press are Motorsport/ F1 fans to start with? Some have reported on other sports before, and then become the F1 writer. I'm not totally impressed by the knowledge, or lack of, by some of them.

[wewantourdarbyback]

How many of the British press are Motorsport/ F1 fans to start with? Some have reported on other sports before, and then become the F1 writer. I'm not totally impressed by the knowledge, or lack of, by some of them.

Well there's me. Although I'm writing news at the moment.

[Creepy]

Adam, where have you been watching the F1 lately?
The guy went back to the 'amoeba' thing a few races back, during a free practice, the weekend Nira interviewed Räikkönen for the 'previo'. That's why I used the present tense. Even more, spectators complained about him calling Räikkönen amoeba and then he kept on using it to show how much he was over everything.
And that's not been the only name calling this year; I remember a free practice where he insulted Ralf Schumacher out of the blue, even if the guy is not in F1 any more.
I consider driver name-calling simply unacceptable.

I don't have so many hopes Pedro will be back commenting the races, that would mean he would have to travel to all races and if he isn't a team's test driver it won't happen I would live to have him back on that TV room, though, I always liked his way of commenting the races.

Pedro is the best ever commentator Spain ever had, so I hope a team asks him to be their test driver, even if test drivers don't do much nowadays... A3 could pay him money or something! I hope at least we have him for sure during the European races.

Edited by Creepy, 30 November 2012 - 12:00.

[Tsarwash]

I don't want to take this too off topic, but when the press are fed quotes like this,

"It is a shame because, after such a long season that we really fight in all conditions, we raced 18 races and not 20 - and being second by three points is not a lot. But that is the way it is." ..... Domenicali also said that there was no doubt that Alonso's title was wrecked in Belgium and Japan, and not lost in Brazil. "Watch the facts," he said. "Zero points in two races so we have done what we have done with 18 races. The others had 20 – and the points were over 20 races. These are facts, not words."

Then it is not surprising that they get a bit one sided. All of the top drivers had a healthy slice of bad luck beyond their control, I suggest that Vettel and Hamilton were denied the most guaranteed points. Which makes this press release just dire. But I'm sure the other teams all release equal amounts of bullshit to the press.

[Coops3]

I agree with the OP. I get that some publications' primary aim is to write what their readership wants to read, but I think that publications which reach wide audiences have a moral duty to get their facts right.

Edited by Coops3, 30 November 2012 - 12:24.

[RealRacing]

But F1 has been popular in Spain for nealy 10 years now. Surely a good part of the fanbase is not utter ignorant anymore. Proper F1 information would sell here.

You read the comments section in the news web and there´s a lot of people wondering what on Earth are they on. If it depended on Spanish F1 fanbase, I´m pretty sure Miquel, Lobato, Romojarro and all that rubbish would be on loooong holidays for sure. Yet for some reason they´re still doing a dream job, getting paid for it, and ashaming us worlwide I´ll repeat: there´s thousands of Spanish fans that would do their job better than they do.

Well, if you stop to think about it, there's a reason they are still doing their job: they sell. Make no mistake about it, the minute a "rational" fanbase outsells an ignorant one, they will be either forced to adapt or let go. The objective of a mass medium, sadly, is not necessarily to inform or educate, but to sell. And they will do whatever it takes. If you have time check out Mario Vargas Llosa's last essay, "La Civilización del Espectáculo" for some good analysis on this matter.

You also have to take into account the matter of target markets. Printed media are, nowadays, geared more towards a target that demands those kinds of headlines: hard fans, nationalists -who don't give a s**t about the sport but only about a (insert nationality here) sportperson winning- and also the occasional "rational" fan that enjoys some patriotism once in a while. Most of the older, wiser, true sport fans look for their information elsewhere.

Having said that, and insisting on my previous post, F1 has also become geared towards this type of public more and more. Why do you think it has become so profitable and so popular? BE has made sure that, increasingly, it caters more to a mass audience: the opening of the German market with MS and then the Spanish one with FA has tremendously increased viewing and GP assistance figures for example. The inclusion of terrible circuits in parts of the world where F1 was never important before is another hint. The growing importance of "pleasing the fans" and turning F1 into a spectacle (tyres, DRS, et. al.) are also indicative of this trend. And going further (and knowing BE), some people might suspect that the close championships of recent years are no coincidence either...

So, I would say that the reporting of F1 nowadays, is a reflection of what F1 is or is becoming, which is, IMO, a business more than anything else. The media or their employees are not the problem, the owner of the circus and the audience he targets are.

[Rocket73]

OK, this topic is getting mentioned in the Vettel flaggate topic, and sometimes it´s going well OT, so let´s discuss it here:

For me this is exactly the problem...sensationalism...the -gate suffix that is used in f1 is such lame attempt to create a scandal and this is blatant sensationalism...

the leveson report has highlighted this in all press and people are finally really taking notice at last...

if you are sick of them then don't do it yourself...

[Skinnyguy]

Sorry, not aware of that. To me as a non native the -gate term does just mean controversy.

Back on topic, some are still not satisfied. Carlos Miquel tweeted today:

"It´s not going to change anything now, but here you can see that the stewards of the controversial post only wave their flag for those exiting the pitlane". And adds this video



The video shows action from who knows which session, who knows which lap, where you can see a marshall waving probably blue flags for those exiting the pitlane. You can tell it´s definetely not lap 4 of the race for the weather, fieldspread, lack of yellow lights in the previous LED screen to the marshall post... but still it serves him to have a go

Edited by Skinnyguy, 30 November 2012 - 18:13.

[Jovanotti]

Bingo. The way Kulta writes you would think he is doing PR for KR. So every country has their Stooges.

Kulta's name in a thread about fanboyish tabloid journalism? Oh, well...

[Talisker]

I believe F1 "journalism" is pretty poor in general, but there's a good reason for that. In many other sports there is good investigative journalism, with journalists probing the behaviour of governing bodies, whether its related to disciplinary processes, financial irregularities, corruption, drugs, or just general incompetence and mismangement. But FOM has complete control over F1 so it just doesn't happen. If journalists rocked the boat they might not get their press passes, access to the drivers, the paddock, the pits etc. James Allen, for example, does a great job, but nonetheless it's still just generally analysis. Very interesting analysis, but there's little challenge of how F1 is run or anything that FOM does. Websites like Autospost have some analysis and comment, but most of their news items are regurgitations of press releases, i.e. they're just part of the F1 PR machine.

[Morbus]

Only for (color)blind people, it is not clear that Vettel did an overtake under yellows.

It's you who's blind, apparently. I don't know which instance you're referring to, but they were all legal. The shadier one is the pass on the toro rosso at the back straight, but there's a marshal waving a green flag WAY before the pass took place. Before the green flashing light too, but that's besides the point.

[Skinnyguy]

...

LOL at your signature!! Voted you 5 stars just to annoy you

[artista]

Sorry, not aware of that. To me as a non native the -gate term does just mean controversy.

Back on topic, some are still not satisfied. Carlos Miquel tweeted today:

"It´s not going to change anything now, but here you can see that the stewards of the controversial post only wave their flag for those exiting the pitlane". And adds this video



The video shows action from who knows which session, who knows which lap, where you can see a marshall waving probably blue flags for those exiting the pitlane. You can tell it´s definetely not lap 4 of the race for the weather, fieldspread, lack of yellow lights in the previous LED screen to the marshall post... but still it serves him to have a go

Skinny, it's Carlos Miquel, what he says is simply worth nothing, it never was and it never will.
Do you remember he was also one of those trying to sell how the Lotus were taking Alonso out to help Red Bull?

This guy is never going to admit what he's been saying the last few days was plain wrong and just denotes his lack of knowledge of the sport and that he doesn't check his facts at all. Moreover, you know who is Eloy Entrambaguas (I hope, I wrote his family name right)? He was right in something he said this week: this non-story was giving all the Spanish Formula 1 sites a huge amount of 'clicks'. And there you have another reason for certain journalists to keep on going with a story that's more than over: to have people listening/reading them and to have something for next year to have the people listening/reading them, when they base their informations in how evil cheating Vettel stole heavenly magic Alonso his more than deserved title using dirty tricks and how, in reality, it's Alonso the real 3 times champion and blah, blah, blah.

As I said, it's Carlos Miquel, don't 'burn your blood', everybody knows he's not worth it

[Rocket73]

The -gate suffix comes from the Watergate scandal...trust me it wasn't a controversy, it was a genuine full on scandal that shook the world...

For me the readiness for so many to try and turn any little thing in f1 into something of a similar magnitude is the entire problem and the press, wrongly but driven by profit, are just feeding on it and encouraging it...

But apologies if my post came across as a bit aggressive..

[Tsarwash]

Has anybody seen this BBC story ?
Basically everything that has been presented, but with new 'unseen' footage to prove the point.

previously unavailable in-car feed

is the clip that has been on youtube for nearly a week now. How can they present this as a 'news' story ?

[Skinnyguy]

Has anybody seen this BBC story ?
Basically everything that has been presented, but with new 'unseen' footage to prove the point.
is the clip that has been on youtube for nearly a week now. How can they present this as a 'news' story ?

That story should have been presented with big flashing text saying BREAKING NEWS