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Ferrari, Fernando and the Flaggate


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Poll: Ferrari, Fernando and the Flaggate (298 member(s) have cast votes)

What or who was behind Ferraris decision?

  1. An internal [Scuderia] review of the evidence convinced them to write the letter (25 votes [6.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.85%

  2. Pressure by (Spanish) media and sponsors pushed them (78 votes [21.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.37%

  3. Alonso and his manager wanted a protest (130 votes [35.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.62%

  4. Ferrari just wanted to clear the issue (78 votes [21.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.37%

  5. I have no idea (54 votes [14.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.79%

Did the "clarification" business harm Scuderia Ferrari? [edit: The motorsport team]

  1. Yes (147 votes [49.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.49%

  2. No (128 votes [43.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.10%

  3. I have no idea (22 votes [7.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.41%

Did the "clarification" issue cast Alonso in a bad light?

  1. Yes (142 votes [50.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.35%

  2. No (122 votes [43.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.26%

  3. I have no idea (18 votes [6.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

Vote

#1 H2H

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:13

With the case about the legality of the overtakes of Vettel closed for good it is interesting to focus on the other side of the story. There is already some discussion in the Ferrari and Alonso threads and it would help to centralize it in a new topic. Thus I postpone my forum absence ;)

Personally I think there are many interesting aspects about how the whole issue snowballed and how agents like the Spanish media, Ferrari and Alonso interacted. Especially the Ferrari case interests me as it is hard to make sense out of it. Why did they overtly close the chapter right after the race with LdM sending out warm letters of the suppliers and seemingly trying to turn the page in the interviews he gave? Why did Ferrari send the letter many days later despite having seen no sense to protest after the race? What role does the Alonso play in the whole story?

It is course difficult to reconstruct the story but we have an interesting timeline and input from various sources.

A timeline


25th: Ferrari did look already during the race into some of the issues, first informing Alonso that Vettel might have infringed the rules but later saying him that it was all clear. Alonso himself told the story this way after the race.

At least Sky F1 did bring it up, maybe trying to stir the pot, but so far as I know only about the case with Koba.

The overtake of Koba was relatively quickly deemed legal for obvious reasons already discussed elsewhere.


26th: Videos surface about the overtake of Vergne and go viral, also here on Autosport. (The most viewed ones on YT have Spanish titles and were posted on the 27th, the Italian one has also a quite some views)


27th: The issue is quickly picked up by the Spanish media which fuels the issue. The social motorsport media writes about it. Alonso tweets 'No tengo milagros, Yo hago de las leyes correctas mis milagros.' "I have no miracles, I transform the correct rules in my miracles"

His manager Luis Garcia Abad followed: "Donde hay poca justicia es un peligro tener razón" "where justice does not prevail, it´s dangerous being in the right"


28th-29th Newspaper like the Gazzetta and the Corriere della Sera report it, suggesting that Alonso pushes Ferrari to protest. They write that Ferrari considers it but that the chances are slim and that it could not look good. (Note that some articles got updated yesterday!)

ABC.es says "Alonso presiona a Ferrari para que presente una reclamación oficial" "Alonos pushes Ferrari to present an official reclamation"

The Corriere (link above) writes: "A Maranello ci pensano: hanno tempo fino a venerdì per decidere. Fernando Alonso preme in questa direzione." "At Maranello they think about it: they have time until Friday to decide. Fernado Alonso presses in this direction"


29th: The international media, first the motorsport/sport papers pick up the news. Among them are the most respected, like the BBC "The 31-year-old Alonso, who was world champion in 2005 and 2006, is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA."

Ferrari sends a letter, possibly already a day before, asking for a "clarification". "Ferrari has asked, in a letter, for a clarification from the FIA ​​about the overtaking of VET VER during the 4th round of the Brazilian Grand Prix," confirm the official tweet only a couple of minutes after Whiting responds to German AMuS that everyting was legal. He does so later on Autosport.

The Telegraph offers Ecclestones view: “In the rules and regs normally you have to protest,” the 82 year-old said. “They [Ferrari] missed that time. Then there is the fact that a green flag was shown, which nobody seems to dispute. It’s a complete joke. What they are saying in that letter is wrong. I don’t think there needs to be any action taken. It’s completely and utterly wrong."


30th: Ferrari accepts the FIA verdict.

“Ferrari duly takes note of the reply sent by the FIA this morning and therefore considers the matter now closed,” the team said in a statement on Friday.

“The request for a clarification from the FIA, regarding Vettel’s passing move on Vergne, came about through the need to shed light on the circumstances of the move, which came out on the Internet only a few days after the race,” said the team.


Red Bull says that they are “pleased, but not surprised, that the FIA has confirmed there is no case to answer regarding the 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix.”

“We are extremely proud of Sebastian’s incredible achievement and his third historic title, which makes him the youngest ever triple world champion,” the team added in a statement.


Ferrari seems to react to the backlash against the team by a statement of it's team boss, Domenicali:

"It was our duty to ask for a clarification to the FIA to understand what was the thing that was circulating on the web, without trying to diminish the victory of the driver who has won the title.

"But with the approach of seeking clarity and trying to understand what was the video that was on television. It was nothing more than that.

"So it was a very rational and very correct approach from Ferrari to make sure that we understood. We have received the clarification from the FIA, so we have taken notice of their position."

So far no direct apology was issued.


Thoughts

So there was a big flip-flop by Ferrari, but why? Ferrari is a big brand and certainly knew about the risks of losing and looking like a bad loser. They clearly look like any other team closely at what the competitors are doing on and of the track. So why did they sent the "wrong" (Bernie) letter, confirmed it and exposed themselves in such a way?

The reasons seems to be most likely come from Spain. Fernado was not impressed by other FIA decisions, in particular the one in Japan against Vettel and tweeted something which can get misunderstood as an attack on the FIA. His manager seems to state the point much clearer, writing that it is "dangerous to be right when justice doesn't prevail". The Spanish media does talk about Ferrari being "cowardly" if it doesn't protest. Italian media and their sources (also see The flying lap) report all that Alonso was pressing for a protest. All in all it seems after a review of the known facts to be the by far the most likely scenario.


Poll

You can make multiple choices, which make sense for the first question.

Edited by H2H, 02 December 2012 - 09:08.


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#2 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:28

Think you need to differentiate between Scuderia Ferrari and Ferrari S.p.A

I would think pressure came from further up the chain external to the F1 team itself

#3 rasul

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:28

28th: Newspaper like the Gazzetta and the Corriere report it, suggesting that Alonso pushes Ferrari to protest.


They really suggested it? May I have a link, please?

#4 H2H

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:29

They really suggested it? May I have a link, please?


I will try to link it all - there are just a lot of them...

#5 Wintermute

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:29

Lol @ the twitter comments. They are such bad losers :-(

#6 H2H

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:44

Think you need to differentiate between Scuderia Ferrari and Ferrari S.p.A

I would think pressure came from further up the chain external to the F1 team itself


Hm it would be interesting but quite some did already vote...

Edited by H2H, 30 November 2012 - 13:45.


#7 pRy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 13:54

I fail to see how it has any chance of harming Ferrari's business. They sell expensive cars. A question over a pass in the final race of the year isn't going to deter someone from buying a Ferrari. And I doubt it will deter any Ferrari fans from buying their merchandise either. So that's a slightly hysterical suggestion imho.

Ferrari saw the fuss online, got lots of questions about it.. asked the FIA to clarify the situation, the FIA clarified the situation, end of story. Ferrari didn't appeal the pass, they didn't appeal the clarification, they didn't lodge a protest. Had Ferrari not done so, perhaps people would have spent the next xx years suggesting the pass was illegal and slipped through the net because Ferrari didn't ask for clarity. The story is done with now.

No harm done to anyone.

#8 H2H

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:02

I fail to see how it has any chance of harming Ferrari's business. They sell expensive cars. A question over a pass in the final race of the year isn't going to deter someone from buying a Ferrari. And I doubt it will deter any Ferrari fans from buying their merchandise either. So that's a slightly hysterical suggestion imho.

Ferrari saw the fuss online, got lots of questions about it.. asked the FIA to clarify the situation, the FIA clarified the situation, end of story. Ferrari didn't appeal the pass, they didn't appeal the clarification, they didn't lodge a protest. Had Ferrari not done so, perhaps people would have spent the next xx years suggesting the pass was illegal and slipped through the net because Ferrari didn't ask for clarity. The story is done with now.

No harm done to anyone.


I should have written "Scuderia Ferrari". As it is clear that everybody who thinks it harms Ferrari as a whole does so about the Scuderia/motorsport team I will edit that.

Edited by H2H, 30 November 2012 - 14:06.


#9 jonpollak

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:10

Ferrari to challenge Christmas

Alora....
Jp

#10 showtime

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:14

Another bashing thread open by one of the usual Alonso haters, yeiiii!

Edited by showtime, 30 November 2012 - 14:16.


#11 fastdriver

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:15

Ferrari to challenge Christmas

Alora....
Jp



Plus, the 2012 car was basically a bit of a turkey.’
:)


‘Fernando Alonso has the pace to deliver presents all over the world in just one night
:lol:

and Felipe Massa looks like an elf.
:rotfl:

#12 superuser

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:18

Ferrari to challenge Christmas

Alora....
Jp


Yeah, that was brilliant :) And has a better chance to succeed anyway :)

#13 Tsarwash

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:24

Another bashing thread open by one of the usual Alonso haters, yeiiii!

I disagree. I think that the tweets show Alonso and management in a bad light, but not Ferrari. Considering how contentious the issue was, I think that is is right for Ferrari to seek clarification. But Alonso's tweets suggest a sore loser to me.


#14 kosmos

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:25

Another bashing thread open by one of the usual Alonso haters, yeiiii!


Yep, not sure how people can think that Alonso and his manager, after 10 years in F1 could have thought for a second that there was a chance that FIA could have done something with the title. As Stefano explained this morning, the reason behind the clarification request was pressure from the social media, he even talked about dealing with social media and trying to "control" it in the future. But hey let's bash Alonso, he is the root of evil.

#15 Skinnyguy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:30

No idea, yes, yes.

No one knows the reason why they wanted clarification of anything when it was al crystal clear. And yes, the letter makes them all look bad, like if they wanted to win even if it was in a lame way.

#16 EvanRainer

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:38

I don't believe, or at least I don't want to believe Alonso pushed for this in any way as reported.

I don't think there is anything wrong with looking into the situation either.

The only thing I personally didn't like and I find a bit embarrassing for Ferrari is the letter. NOT because it makes them "sore losers" but because I feel in the end the caved under the pressure and pandered to the wishes of a bunch of morons and tin foil hatters on forums.

They could have conducted an investigation internally, come to the conclusion like everyone else did that there was nothing wrong and pretended they never thought there was an issue.

But no, they had to pander to the idiots in the end.

#17 Seanspeed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:38

I have no idea.

No.

No.

It only looks bad to people that enjoy seeing Ferrari in a bad light. The move was certainly legitimately questionable. You really cant blame a team for wanting clarification for it when a title is on the line. It'd be different if they were raging over it or something but they're not. Just wanted to make sure everything was done legally. Any other team would have done the same.

Also, putting it on Alonso is pretty pathetic and not supported by anything whatsoever.

Edited by Seanspeed, 30 November 2012 - 14:39.


#18 boldhakka

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:40

There really isn't a positive way to interpret Ferrari's action. If they really wanted just clarification they could have done it privately with the FIA. If they wanted to placate the social media, they could have issued a press release explaining that an internal review clearly absolved Vettel of any wrongdoing because the rules say so and so and the video evidence shows so and so.

It was an attempt to apply an asterisk next to the 2012 title, but it didn't work and made them look silly.

I suspect we will see some leaks suggesting that there is a difference in racing philosophy between Domenicali and Fernando.

#19 EvanRainer

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:40

Why did they need to ask for a clarification? Don't they know the rules?

They obviously followed the forums long enough to follow the "controversy", I'm sure they saw the debunking as well.

Why did they have to go public? To appease all the idiots that's why. And I find that a bit disappointing.

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#20 Seanspeed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:44

Oh god, I just saw the votes. The majority of people think this was Alonso's doing?

I'm out. :lol: Just a bashing thread now.

Edited by Seanspeed, 30 November 2012 - 14:45.


#21 w00dy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:46

It was an attempt to apply an asterisk next to the 2012 title, but it didn't work and made them look silly.


There are quite a few asterisks next to WDC titles anyway.

On the other hand the Germans are the only ones in Europe left with any money so from Bernie's business perspective it makes sense to have Vettel as champion.


#22 four1

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:54

Another bashing thread open by one of the usual Alonso haters, yeiiii!

Yep. It appears that the opening poster wasn't around this forum in 2007 after the last race that year but here's a link to an article to bring him/her up to speed:
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/7055644.stm

I can't remember if anyone had started a similar poll back then and substituted" McLaren" in place of "Ferrari". In hindsight though, it doesn't appear that 'Fuelgate" brought any harm to McLaren so I'll put my bet on a similar fizzling out of this matter when it comes to Ferrari.

Maybe if Twitter had been widely used back in 2007, it might have added more excitement/paranoia/bashing to the whole situation but you likely would have still seen it downplayed in this Autosport forum.



#23 Skinnyguy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:58

It only looks bad to people that enjoy seeing Ferrari in a bad light. The move was certainly legitimately questionable.


You´re wrong in both.

Anyone understanding the flag-gate -which is really easy with all the evidence that has emerged- knew that the move was not questionable at all.

Ferrari asking clarification makes them look bad, because either they fail to understand the incident -which makes them look stupid- or understand it but want to see if they still got something out of it -which makes them look malicious-. Fernando´s tweet makes the same question arise: did he fail to understand the issue or just wanted to see if it would stick somehow?

#24 w00dy

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:00

Yep. It appears that the opening poster wasn't around this forum in 2007 after the last race that year but here's a link to an article to bring him/her up to speed:
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/7055644.stm

I can't remember if anyone had started a similar poll back then and substituted" McLaren" in place of "Ferrari". In hindsight though, it doesn't appear that 'Fuelgate" brought any harm to McLaren so I'll put my bet on a similar fizzling out of this matter when it comes to Ferrari.

Maybe if Twitter had been widely used back in 2007, it might have added more excitement/paranoia/bashing to the whole situation but you likely would have still seen it downplayed in this Autosport forum.


This is the Alonso bashing thread, please don't remind us here that Lewis could have been 6 times world champion with the greatest team ever. thx

#25 boldhakka

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:01

Anyone understanding the flag-gate -which is really easy with all the evidence that has emerged- knew that the move was not questionable at all.

Ferrari asking clarification makes them look bad, because either they fail to understand the incident -which makes them look stupid- or understand it but want to see if they still got something out of it -which makes them look malicious-. Fernando´s tweet makes the same question arise: did he fail to understand the issue or just wanted to see if it would stick somehow?


Yep. And we know they are not stupid.

#26 eronrules

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:05

WHY ????

#27 EvanRainer

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:21

Oh god, I just saw the votes. The majority of people think this was Alonso's doing?

I'm out. :lol: Just a bashing thread now.


For what is worth, I rolled my eyes when I saw the results of the poll. I don't think there is anything wrong with the thread though.

#28 sailor

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:27

It only looks bad to people that enjoy seeing Ferrari in a bad light. The move was certainly legitimately questionable. You really cant blame a team for wanting clarification for it when a title is on the line. It'd be different if they were raging over it or something but they're not. Just wanted to make sure everything was done legally. Any other team would have done the same.

Also, putting it on Alonso is pretty pathetic and not supported by anything whatsoever.


If the bold part is what you think ...


Oh god, I just saw the votes. The majority of people think this was Alonso's doing?

I'm out. :lol: Just a bashing thread now.


.... then why are you upset that people think Alonso pushed for it.
It presents Alonso as the "smart guy" to push for a clarification which Ferrari otherwise may have shied away from.

#29 Seanspeed

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:32

If the bold part is what you think ...




.... then why are you upset that people think Alonso pushed for it.
It presents Alonso as the "smart guy" to push for a clarification which Ferrari otherwise may have shied away from.

62 people voted that Alonso was behind it.

Yet only 36 people think that it didn't paint Alonso in a bad light(or just dont know/care).

I'll leave it to you to make the connection.



#30 superuser

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:42

Stupid stunt from Ferrari/Alonso, trying to tarnish the Vettel's WDC. They knew there was no chance in hell of the result being changed, but they still did it. Talk about overreaction and sour grapes.

#31 kosmos

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:49

Stupid stunt from Ferrari/Alonso, trying to tarnish the Vettel's WDC. They knew there was no chance in hell of the result being changed, but they still did it. Talk about overreaction and sour grapes.


Ferrari can't win, isn't it?, if they do nothing, all the people pussing them from Spain/Italy will say they are cowards, weak, and bend over Red Bull or/and FIA, if the do something, even something as inoffensive as asking for clarification, sour grapes, losers, bla bla. The same old story. Domenicali already explained today that the reason behind it was the pressure, not to discredit Vettel or to get the title for Alonso but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good bashing.

#32 superuser

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 15:52

Ferrari can't win, isn't it?, if they do nothing, all the people pussing them from Spain/Italy will say they are cowards, weak, and bend over Red Bull or/and FIA, if the do something, even something as inoffensive as asking for clarification, sour grapes, losers, bla bla. The same old story. Domenicali already explained today that the reason behind it was the pressure, not to discredit Vettel or to get the title for Alonso but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good bashing.


If the fans were their concern, then there was one simple thing they could do - make an official statement that they saw the evidence and it shows that the pass is not illegal. That would have been enough to calm down their rabid fans. But no, they had to hide behind FIA's back. No wonder Bernie is pissed and I'm sure FIA is not thrilled with them too. The request for "clarification" was the cowardly thing to do when knowing too well there is nothing to clarify.

Edited by superuser, 30 November 2012 - 15:53.


#33 kosmos

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:10

If the fans were their concern, then there was one simple thing they could do - make an official statement that they saw the evidence and it shows that the pass is not illegal. That would have been enough to calm down their rabid fans.


I don't share your opinion, and probably you didn't read the stuff writted in Spain and Italy, but I did, and people wanted them to go to FIA and ask "WTF is going on, the overtake was illegal", making an statement will cause the radbid fans as you call them, to call Ferrari cowards for not facing the FIA (they are already doing it), in my opinion it's clear what happen, they didn't wanted to appear as weak to the people making pressure in Spain/Italy but they didn't want to protest the result of the race either, so they found a middle ground, the clarification, something that didn't pleased the rabid fans and at the end is hurting Ferrari's image, unfairly in my opinion. I don't think there is any dubious move by them, but some people will find their way to make them look bad. Anyway, this is a free world, and everyone is free to have their opinion.

Edited by kosmos, 30 November 2012 - 16:12.


#34 superuser

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 16:25

that didn't pleased the rabid fans and at the end is hurting Ferrari's image, unfairly in my opinion.


This was never going to work - the clarification request just made the things official, additionally fueling the firestorm in Spain/Italy. It just shifted the blame from Ferrari to FIA. No wonder Ferrari's image was hurt.

#35 Realyn

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 17:10

Ferrari can't win, isn't it?, if they do nothing, all the people pussing them from Spain/Italy will say they are cowards, weak, and bend over Red Bull or/and FIA, if the do something, even something as inoffensive as asking for clarification, sour grapes, losers, bla bla. The same old story. Domenicali already explained today that the reason behind it was the pressure, not to discredit Vettel or to get the title for Alonso but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good bashing.

I prefer weak, honest human beings who are open about their frustration of loosing the world championship over any kind of person Ferrari/Alonso are right now.

What a stupid excuse, saying they just did it because of the pressure.

Btw, I killed a person yesterday. It was because I had such a bad day and was full of presure. But please don't judge me. Please, don't bash me. It wasn't me who did it. It was the thing called "pressure?"-

#36 showtime

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:15

I prefer weak, honest human beings who are open about their frustration of loosing the world championship over any kind of person Ferrari/Alonso are right now.

What a stupid excuse, saying they just did it because of the pressure.

Btw, I killed a person yesterday. It was because I had such a bad day and was full of presure. But please don't judge me. Please, don't bash me. It wasn't me who did it. It was the thing called "pressure?"-


The thing is none is going to judge you or bashing you because you were under pressure or not, you are going to jail because killing people is not an acceptable behaviour. The same way asking for a clarification of a certain situation is not good or bad, who cares why they did it when the action is harmless. The only people making a big drama of that clarification are precisely the people complaining about it being an strategy to tarnish Vettel's WDC. How the hell a positive clarification could possibly tarnish anything? On the contrary it makes crystal clear the pass was totally legit and should have ended it. This matter would be cold dead if not for the hate towards Alonso/Ferrari, you are doing the work you are accusing Ferrari of by keeping this discussion alive.

#37 Smile17

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:23

Ha, it's the Ferrari-effect, people over-analyse everything they do.

#38 superuser

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:26

Ha, it's the Ferrari-effect, people over-analyse everything they do.


Well, you got to agree that wanting "clarification" on something that can change the outcome of the championship after the fact is a pretty big deal and doesn't happen every year.

#39 fabr68

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:31

Conclusion of the poll is you do not need facts to hate on a driver.

Can somebody post the youtube video where Alonso and his manager were pressuring Ferrari to ask the FIA a question?



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#40 scheivlak

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:41

I can't remember if anyone had started a similar poll back then and substituted" McLaren" in place of "Ferrari".


It's difficult to substitute something that hasn't happened yet :D

That said, your memory seems to have failed because there was a 2931 posts thread including a poll in 2007 about McLaren pretty much among this line http://forums.autosp...showtopic=97643  ;)

#41 Sakae

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:52

* Decision to protest was not a logical development, but afterthought (maybe sponsor, maybe LdM).
* Protest may or may not worsen negative perception about that team, we do not know yet, but it is doubtful that result will be positive.
* Alonso - perception of a sore looser just dosen't go away, regardless whether he was consulted or not, and whether his fingerprints are on it or not

Edited by Sakae, 30 November 2012 - 18:52.


#42 Uwe

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:12

All that "we don't want to question Vettel's title, just seeking for clarification" talk is nothing but a load of rubbish. Would Ferrari have written their letter to the FIA if it had not been Vettel but Petrov who overtook Vergne? Would they have felt the urgent need to clarify that matter with green flags being shown before green lights? For sure not.

We know why they did it. And they harmed their reputation and they know it.

#43 bourbon

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:33

Ferrari??

That team fired my childhood hero, Prost and he was out for a year, then my next hero Kimi, and he was out for 2. So, as I think most know, I have no liking for that team.

The good news is that they can't do anything at all to further hurt their reputation with me, lol.

As for Alonso, I figure he demanded the team protest - and Ferrari caved to keep him happy. That is precisely the perception I have of Alonso. My perception is built completely on the GATES he has been involved in (directly and indirectly) in the past - and mostly, his actual words about those events and the people directly responsible (i.e., Briatore). And also his words and actions, heard and seen with my own eyes and ears.

I don't hate or even dislike Alonso - outside of F1 he is likely a bang up dude. However, I do often take issue with his words, actions and behavior relative to Formula 1 and I suspect he was deeply involved in the Gates.

Edited by bourbon, 30 November 2012 - 20:33.


#44 redbarron

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:36

I'm not sure why people think Ferrari didn't have a right to ask for an explanation from the FIA. The FIA should have closed this on race day rather then make it the mess its become. The venom from people on here towards Ferrari and Alonso is pathetic to say the least, and makes me wonder how old the majority of forum members really are. It least there are a couple of sensible people on here that can have a decent ADULT conversation without slagging off drivers, teams or forum members!!

#45 four1

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:46

It's difficult to substitute something that hasn't happened yet :D

That said, your memory seems to have failed because there was a 2931 posts thread including a poll in 2007 about McLaren pretty much among this line http://forums.autosp...showtopic=97643  ;)

As I wrote, I couldn't remember. Thanks for looking it up and shedding light on it. :)

So yes, it's clear now that McLaren was not harmed by their actions in 2007. Neither will Ferrari be harmed.

#46 josepatches

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:47

It was "closed on race day".

It was Ferrari who ask for an explanation



#47 Lone

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 20:49

I'm not sure why people think Ferrari didn't have a right to ask for an explanation from the FIA. The FIA should have closed this on race day rather then make it the mess its become. The venom from people on here towards Ferrari and Alonso is pathetic to say the least, and makes me wonder how old the majority of forum members really are. It least there are a couple of sensible people on here that can have a decent ADULT conversation without slagging off drivers, teams or forum members!!


I'm an Alonso fan but I understand the critisism that comes with the possibility of Alonso beeing the instigator of trying to overturn the championship result. I mean I think Alonso is the best driver but that doesn't mean that I like him trying to win the title this way. And please don't play this Adult issue because I believe that I am "more adult" than most of the forumers. I'm an Alonso fan but not a blind Alonso fan.


#48 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 21:01

The FIA should have closed this on race day rather then make it the mess its become.


But that's the point : everything was clarified on race day. They even looked into Vettel during the race and found nothing wrong. There never was an issue except some eager fans with a 2 pixel video which was deceiving.

So why question the championship with a non-issue? Except to have a lame excuse for underperforming. Even when they conceded they couldn't admit that Vettel did nothing wrong.

Edited by Diablobb81, 30 November 2012 - 21:03.


#49 showtime

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 21:33

Ferrari??

That team fired my childhood hero, Prost and he was out for a year, then my next hero Kimi, and he was out for 2. So, as I think most know, I have no liking for that team.

The good news is that they can't do anything at all to further hurt their reputation with me, lol.

As for Alonso, I figure he demanded the team protest - and Ferrari caved to keep him happy. That is precisely the perception I have of Alonso. My perception is built completely on the GATES he has been involved in (directly and indirectly) in the past - and mostly, his actual words about those events and the people directly responsible (i.e., Briatore). And also his words and actions, heard and seen with my own eyes and ears.

I don't hate or even dislike Alonso - outside of F1 he is likely a bang up dude. However, I do often take issue with his words, actions and behavior relative to Formula 1 and I suspect he was deeply involved in the Gates.


So you have an idea strongly based on perceptions, suppositions and suspicions plus the interpretation (always negative of course) of Alonso's words and actions. You will twist every word or action from him to make it look bad because you decided to believe everything he does is fundamentally bad.
Then your dear Vettel after winning a WDC, instead of just celebrating, decides to dedicate some words to their criticise rivals (that must be the sportsmanship and class you are always bragging about). But not by a reasoned explanation of facts but with mysterious words: "dirty tricks". When asked if he could elaborate, he refuses cowardly because he wants to throw the stone but hiding the hand,let's just see if something sticks, after all is Alonso and Ferrari, I'm sure my fans will be happy to fill the blanks. One would expect that you, having strong ideals and allegedly not hating or disliking Alonso, would follow the same rule applied to him and Ferrari and would criticise Vettel. Oh but you decided his move was worth of prise, because he spoke openly (even if he didn't explain his cryptic words), only after winning and not making much noise (in case it could backfire or worse, open a war against the other teams with RBR having a lot of hidden corpses) only enough to give something to talk about. I think this is called double standards.

#50 drunkenmaster

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 22:19

Well, Alonso's recent Twitter post shows clearly he's a sore loser, apparently he considers himself as the "true champion", so I have no doubt about who was behind it.

Posted Image


Spiegel Online BTW claims to have learned exactly that from FIA sources:

Thus all speculations are over, which said that Vettel could lose his title at the "green table" because of two questionable overtakes. From FIA sources SPIEGEL ONLINE learned: This scenario was never open for debate. The topic was only brought up by the management of vice-champion Fernando Alonso.

http://www.spiegel.d...l-a-869985.html