84 replies to this topic

[eronrules]

LDM hits out at Bernie Ecclestone - Autosport

"Since some people have used the expression 'It's a joke' in recent days, I would like to say that this is the real 'joke'.

"Yes, I'm referring to one of Ecclestone's phrases: my father always taught me that you have to have respect your elders, above all when they reach the point that they can no longer control their words. So I will stop there.

"Certainly, old age is often incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities."

i guess all good relation comes to an end, i'll bet LDM is missing the good favors form BE and thus this end to the love story.

[Skinnyguy]

This is getting more and more embarrasing for Ferrari. They should admit they were wrong and let it go. Yesterday Alonso said going to FIA was the right thing to do because there were some clueless fans that wanted an answer on a non issue.

This is one more step: Luca not only thinks complaining was the right thing to do, but attacks whoever is smart enough to realise that´s stupid. He implies Bernie is talking nonsense because he´s old, while what he said it´s spot on: complaining about a blatantly OK move is exactly what he said, a joke.

[Atreiu]

Yawn.
It's always a rally (sp?) after a rant or vice-versa when it comes to LDM.

[eronrules]

LDM is whining because FIA isn't Ferrari International Assistance anymore (makes one wonder what he did to jean todt to make him this disfavored) and Bernie switching side to Red bull ... (kidding)


seriously though, i though SD handeled this fiasco with professionalism saying it was just a matter of book keeping, then LDM had to open his pie hole. all this is doing is tarnishing Alonso's performance this year. (and i'm not even a Alonso fan)

[Tenmantaylor]

Luca, himself past retirement age, calling Bernie too old. Did Ferrari not get their way again and have to succumb to a logical outcome? Thought so.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 03 December 2012 - 12:52.

[LuckyStrike1]

Ferrari - Italian for sore losers

Who takes LdM serious anyway?

[Tombstone]

Who takes LdM serious anyway?

LdM

[Xpat]

It is always fun to watch two guys who don't mind stirring the pot have a go at one another.

[Creepy]

As much as Luca Di Montezemolo may be disliked, he's so damn right about this. Although rather than being too old the problem with Bernie is different, but it doesn't matter really. The overall point that Bernie should just leave F1 to other people is indeed spot on.

This is getting more and more embarrasing for Ferrari. They should admit they were wrong and let it go. Yesterday Alonso said going to FIA was the right thing to do because there were some clueless fans that wanted an answer on a non issue.

This is one more step: Luca not only thinks complaining was the right thing to do, but attacks whoever is smart enough to realise that´s stupid. He implies Bernie is talking nonsense because he´s old, while what he said it´s spot on: complaining about a blatantly OK move is exactly what he said, a joke.

Perhaps Bernie should have been more of a pro and let it go himself firstly instead of flame baiting with his digging against Ferrari. The case got closed, there was no need to have a go at Ferrari and say what they did was a joke.

If he flame baits he's got to expect some bites back!

Edited by Creepy, 03 December 2012 - 11:05.

[Diablobb81]

The overall point that Bernie should just leave F1 to other people is indeed spot on.

"The other people" being, of course, LdM.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 December 2012 - 11:05.

[Creepy]

"The other people" being, of course, LdM.

Eh?

[Skinnyguy]

As much as Luca Di Montezemolo may be disliked, he's so damn right about this.

Hope it´s sarcasm

The guy is ******** because another guy didn´t want to be pollitically correct and told him openly his team actions were "a joke". How can he be right by hitting back to a guy that has just stated the truth?

[eronrules]

"The other people" being, of course, LdM.

can u imagine the furors it'll cause if LDM is head of F1??? in all likeliness, CVC is working on some banker guy to take over F1.

[Sakae]

Who takes LdM serious anyway?

I do, despite occassional, but very few exceptions.

[ayali]

It is always fun to watch two guys who don't mind stirring the pot have a go at one another.

Exactly
Just the 2 most important men in F1 having a little tussle
Very entertaining, nothing more

[Creepy]

I really don't see the point of all this mockery, sarcasms and flame baiting. Luca is not bidding to run the FIA.

Hope it´s sarcasm

The guy is ******** because another guy didn´t want to be pollitically correct and told him openly his team actions were "a joke". How can he be right by hitting back to a guy that has just stated the truth?

Your post is a phalacy. That he may be ******** doesn't change that fact that what he says is true. Bernie should just retire. I don't care if it's because he's old or he just cares more about money than about F1 or just that we need to renew the FIA itself a bit.

And I thought one of the few things most of people agreed upon here was this! Funny how the feelings for Ferrari make people to clowd their judgement!

Edited by Creepy, 03 December 2012 - 11:23.

[Skinnyguy]

Your post is a phalacy. That he may be ******** doesn't change that fact that what he says is true. Bernie should just retire. I don't care if it's because he's old or he just cares more about money than about F1 or just that we need to renew the FIA itself a bit.

I´m not even talking about what BE should do with his life, I couldn´t care less. I´m talking about who´s right in this fight about Ferrari´s call to go to FIA over the non-yellow flag pass. And Bernie is 100% right calling that decission a joke, and Luca is wrong hitting back at that statement... because the statement is spot on.

Now you can keep babbling about what BE should or should not do, but the fact is that he seems to understand the sporting side of F1 quite better than LdM. He was wise enough to inmediately spot that the flag thing was a non issue when he got the evidence, unlike LdM.

[Fastcake]

How old is Luca again?

[Zava]

I have massive respect for Montezemolo.

[sailor]

This is getting funny.

I agree with Bernie that it was a joke ...
... but disagree with him that it was very un-Ferrari like.

Its actually very Ferrari -like.

[Gagá Bueno]

The whole behavior of Ferrari since the end of the WDC was surely not the most elegant way to admit defeat... And Mr. Cordero di Montezemolo's statement after having a go at Bernie, goes back to the usual dead horses he likes to flog, the predominance of aero and limited testing, so nothing really new here...

[Nobody]

He's right though, Bernie is too old and treats F1 like his personal Monopoly set

[Creepy]

I´m not even talking about what BE should do with his life, I couldn´t care less. I´m talking about who´s right in this fight about Ferrari´s call to go to FIA over the non-yellow flag pass. And Bernie is 100% right calling that decission a joke, and Luca is wrong hitting back at that statement... because the statement is spot on.

Now you can keep babbling about what BE should or should not do, but the fact is that he seems to understand the sporting side of F1 quite better than LdM. He was wise enough to inmediately spot that the flag thing was a non issue when he got the evidence, unlike LdM.

The only one here babbling is the people like you who brought out something completely off-topic pointlessly.

And again, I don't care about your considerations about LdM ability to run F1, that's pointless really since LdM is not even bidding to run F1. What it matters is that what he said in regards to Bernie is completely right! All the other, flamebaiting chitchat!

Edited by Creepy, 03 December 2012 - 12:22.

[Gagá Bueno]

So, now Schumacher is also one of the 'culprits'... And the samurai-gladiator-matador also has something to say, albeit not having so many titles as Fangio or Schumacher...

And about Bernie being old, who's capable of such a statement:

"It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. ( ) This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".

Should care more about his own glass house IMO.

Edited by Gagá Bueno, 03 December 2012 - 12:29.

[Skinnyguy]

The only one here babbling is the people like you who brought out something completely off-topic pointlessly.

Off topic?? Go have a read up there buddy. These two guys went for it not because they don´t like each other and fought in a pub, but because they have different views on Ferrari´s acts after flag controversy. This is exactly the topic.

What it matters is that what he said in regards to Bernie is completely right!

No, it´s not. He says he´s too old and that´s why he´s saying bullshit about Ferrari decission to go to FIA being "a joke". But actually, old or young, he´s spot on and not talking bullshit. The decission was "a joke", because anyone half-familiar with the sport knew the pass was leggit when all the evidence was out, yet a F1 team dared to "ask for clarification"

[Seanspeed]

Funny how the feelings for Ferrari make people to clowd their judgement!

Pretty much. Its the same people here making the same predictable sort of comments, though so I cant say its all unexpected.

[kpchelsea]

I find it somewhat laughable, all that LDM cares about is Ferrari, all this having more testing days especially for young drivers is so thay can make more use of their private test track. Alonso winning the WDC days after the final race because stewards missed an incident (which of course they didn't) would have been very good for Ferrari and Alonso but very bad for F1.

[Slackbladder]

LDM is whining because FIA isn't Ferrari International Assistance anymore (makes one wonder what he did to jean todt to make him this disfavored) and Bernie switching side to Red bull ... (kidding)


seriously though, i though SD handeled this fiasco with professionalism saying it was just a matter of book keeping, then LDM had to open his pie hole. all this is doing is tarnishing Alonso's performance this year. (and i'm not even a Alonso fan)

I think Bernie liking of certainly Vettel is well documented....

[Clatter]

I find it somewhat laughable, all that LDM cares about is Ferrari, all this having more testing days especially for young drivers is so thay can make more use of their private test track. Alonso winning the WDC days after the final race because stewards missed an incident (which of course they didn't) would have been very good for Ferrari and Alonso but very bad for F1.

Can't blame them for that.

[eronrules]

I find it somewhat laughable, all that LDM cares about is Ferrari publicity (he's more interested in running Italy than Fiat) ferrari is a PR machine to him, all this having more testing days especially for young drivers is so thay can make more use of their private test track. Alonso winning the WDC days after the final race because stewards missed an incident (which of course they didn't) would have been very good for Ferrari and Alonso but very bad for F1.

Edited by eronrules, 03 December 2012 - 12:53.

[kpchelsea]

As much as Luca Di Montezemolo may be disliked, he's so damn right about this. Although rather than being too old the problem with Bernie is different, but it doesn't matter really. The overall point that Bernie should just leave F1 to other people is indeed spot on.



Perhaps Bernie should have been more of a pro and let it go himself firstly instead of flame baiting with his digging against Ferrari. The case got closed, there was no need to have a go at Ferrari and say what they did was a joke.

If he flame baits he's got to expect some bites back!

Ecclestone got involved because he believed what Ferrari were trying to do was damaging to F1

[SenorSjon]

So, now Schumacher is also one of the 'culprits'... And the samurai-gladiator-matador also has something to say, albeit not having so many titles as Fangio or Schumacher...

And about Bernie being old, who's capable of such a statement:

"It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. ( ) This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".

Should care more about his own glass house IMO.

LdM is fighting for a while now against the aero dependancies of late and no longer the possibility to outpower your competiton with engine development. With the ban on testing, the money is just spend elsewhere, they haven't saved a dime by banning it.

[eronrules]

LdM is fighting for a while now against the aero dependancies of late and no longer the possibility to outpower your competiton with engine development. With the ban on testing, the money is just spend elsewhere, they haven't saved a dime by banning it.

actually they did. this banning of Testing has helped the midfield team to close to the big boys. 8 different winners and 5 diff constructors winning in a single season is a testament to that. well, if u have money and willing to spend it (like ferrari/macca/RB/mercs) you can always find different avenues to pursue, but CFD and wind tunnel can do so much as seen by MGP W03 and most top teams during first half.

also, reduced testing means reduced travelling, scheduling and workload specially considering we're bordering on having 22 races soon. CFD and wind tunnel boffins don't travel much. also reduces fuel cost, tire cost, manufacturing cost , engine cost etc etc. think like this, if there were frequent in season testing, how many engines/GB/Chasis would be needed??? i'm looking forward for a meaningful and balanced RRA .

[kpchelsea]

LdM is fighting for a while now against the aero dependancies of late and no longer the possibility to outpower your competiton with engine development. With the ban on testing, the money is just spend elsewhere, they haven't saved a dime by banning it.

Is not testing still not inherently much more expensive though?

[SenorSjon]

actually they did. this banning of Testing has helped the midfield team to close to the big boys. 8 different winners and 5 diff constructors winning in a single season is a testament to that. well, if u have money and willing to spend it (like ferrari/macca/RB/mercs) you can always find different avenues to pursue, but CFD and wind tunnel can do so much as seen by MGP W03 and most top teams during first half.

also, reduced testing means reduced travelling, scheduling and workload specially considering we're bordering on having 22 races soon. CFD and wind tunnel boffins don't travel much. also reduces fuel cost, tire cost, manufacturing cost , engine cost etc etc. think like this, if there were frequent in season testing, how many engines/GB/Chasis would be needed??? i'm looking forward for a meaningful and balanced RRA .

Did they? Or was it tire bonanza? Last year you had McLaren, RedBull and Ferrari dividing the podiums. Mercedes was distant fourth in a piece of no-mans-l;and and the rest was even more behind. Very few races had another team on the podium.
The Brits live near Silverstone and Ferrari has its tarmac playyard. Only HRT was not near a test track, but they are bankrupt. The money not spent on testing is spent elsewhere. That is the nature of F1. On track experience is way better for test drivers.

For example, watch the Q2 times again in Valencia. http://en.wikipedia....pean_Grand_Prix
13 drivers within 98,489-98,780 laptime window, or better, less than 3 tenths between 13 drivers over nearly a 100 second lap. You can't design to that, I sincerely believe that was near the max tire laptime.

[SpaMaster]

Very classy from LdM as usual. He can speak all he wants. But the on-track results show the opposite. Another 2-3 years like this, nobody would even bother publishing such under-achievers..

[JRodrigues]

He's right though, Bernie is too old and treats F1 like his personal Monopoly set

Despite saying the truth, he said it for the wrong reasons. I have a word for that: hypocrite!

[swerved]

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has hit out at Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, suggesting the Briton may be too old to be running the sport.

Ecclestone, 82, was critical of the controversy generated after Ferrari decided to write to the FIA asking for clarification on Sebastian Vettel's pass on Jean-Eric Vergne during the season finale in Brazil.

Ecclestone said last week that Ferrari was too late to consider a protest, and labelled the situation a "complete joke".

"In the rules and regs normally you have to protest. They [Ferrari] missed that time," Ecclestone told the Telegraph.

"It's a complete joke. What they are saying in that letter is wrong. I don't think there needs to be any action taken. It's completely and utterly wrong."

Di Montezemolo, speaking during the Ferrari World Finals, was critical of Ecclestone, saying "old age" is often "incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities."

Di Montezemolo's comments on Ecclestone came after the Italian criticised the current lack of testing for younger drivers.

"We are constructors, not sponsors: I'm no longer happy that we can't do testing on tarmac and that you can't give any chance for young drivers to emerge," he said.

"Since some people have used the expression 'It's a joke' in recent days, I would like to say that this is the real 'joke'.

"Yes, I'm referring to one of Ecclestone's phrases: my father always taught me that you have to have respect your elders, above all when they reach the point that they can no longer control their words. So I will stop there.

"Certainly, old age is often incompatible with certain roles and responsibilities."


Simple 3 word paraphrase.


"We lost again"

[Sakae]

I'm not sure how Alonso is being dragged into this.

Had Alonso won championship, we would have this discussion in the first place. Alonso is however only a trigger to a further point, which is, interjection of new ideas is required, since F1 appears rudderless. LDM is right about many things, but instead being unhappy about Schumacher, he could perhaps calm down, and think if Alonso is really getting most of his cars, while whole organization is supporting him for several years now, and nothing much to show for with budget they have.

[H2H]

Simple 3 word paraphrase.


"We lost again"

The three word paraphrase is certainly part of the equation. LdM is nothing more and nothing less then the CEO of Ferrari and acts more or less accordingly although he could do it with a bit more class. Actually I do agree with him on the balance of areo vs the mech part of F1 and I think that the 2014 rules might be a good step towards it, but his comments about the lack of testing are certainly not for the benefit of the sport. Ferrari as an organisation worked for a long time very very well with a engineering approach based to a good degree to testing, testing and testing again on the track. The cuts to testing have arguably resulted in lower costs and are part of the reason why we saw such a rollercoast ride in the first part of the season.

[BackmarkerUK]

LdM makes one good point, in my opinion:

I'm no longer happy that we can't do testing on tarmac and that you can't give any chance for young drivers to emerge

Okay, so if he was really committed to giving young drivers tests, he could run them in free practice, like Force India, Sauber, Williams, Caterham, HRT and Marussia did this season. But I think there is an argument that teams should be allowed to do more testing (outside the normal test sessions and free practice sessions) in order to prepare them for seats and bring new talent through. The poorer/weaker teams can always sell their test seats to the highest bidders, as Minardi used to (even letting some no-hoper from Venezuela called Pastor Maldonado have his first drive in an F1 car). I realise though, that it would be difficult to get McLaren to stop using Gary Paffett as a 'young driver'.

[H2H]

Despite saying the truth, he said it for the wrong reasons. I have a word for that: hypocrite!

Sorry that I missed that. Brilliant...

[UPRC]

How old is Luca again?

36, though you'd never guess it. Stress it taking quite a toll on the poor man.

[aditya-now]

Perhaps Bernie should have been more of a pro and let it go himself firstly instead of flame baiting with his digging against Ferrari. The case got closed, there was no need to have a go at Ferrari and say what they did was a joke.

If he flame baits he's got to expect some bites back!

Bernie indeed was not diplomatical at all calling the request for clarification a "complete joke". There is probably some bigger issue beneath the surface, otherwise Bernie would not have had such a dig at Ferrari.

In terms of content, Luca di Montezemolo is certainly right. If testing were allowed again - not unlimited testing, but enough to give also young drivers a fair chance as well as help the teams test on track if their results on the drawing board are correct. It's always been part of the sport and the lack of testing makes F1 development increasingly a virtual exercise.

[aditya-now]

LdM makes one good point, in my opinion:



Okay, so if he was really committed to giving young drivers tests, he could run them in free practice, like Force India, Sauber, Williams, Caterham, HRT and Marussia did this season. But I think there is an argument that teams should be allowed to do more testing (outside the normal test sessions and free practice sessions) in order to prepare them for seats and bring new talent through. The poorer/weaker teams can always sell their test seats to the highest bidders, as Minardi used to (even letting some no-hoper from Venezuela called Pastor Maldonado have his first drive in an F1 car). I realise though, that it would be difficult to get McLaren to stop using Gary Paffett as a 'young driver'.

We see what running young driver tests on Fridays does to other young drivers who are trying to establish themselves like Bruno Senna. I hope Valteri Bottas will not face the same fate, that he cannot do Friday free practice on GP weekends. It would be certainly detrimental to his career.

[aditya-now]

The three word paraphrase is certainly part of the equation. LdM is nothing more and nothing less then the CEO of Ferrari and acts more or less accordingly although he could do it with a bit more class.

The whole episode makes me wonder if Alonso was indeed behind the request for clarification or if it was Montezemolo right away.

[aditya-now]

Ecclestone got involved because he believed what Ferrari were trying to do was damaging to F1

Ecclestone getting involved in this way leading to even more escalation - how wise is that?

[SpaMaster]

As much as Luca Di Montezemolo may be disliked, he's so damn right about this. Although rather than being too old the problem with Bernie is different, but it doesn't matter really. The overall point that Bernie should just leave F1 to other people is indeed spot on.



Perhaps Bernie should have been more of a pro and let it go himself firstly instead of flame baiting with his digging against Ferrari. The case got closed, there was no need to have a go at Ferrari and say what they did was a joke.

If he flame baits he's got to expect some bites back!

Or, Ferrari may have been a pro on this and did some proper check on the video before questioning the outcome of the season. The case got closed on Sunday in Brazil. There was never need to poke it with half-mind.

[aditya-now]

So, now Schumacher is also one of the 'culprits'... And the samurai-gladiator-matador also has something to say, albeit not having so many titles as Fangio or Schumacher...

And about Bernie being old, who's capable of such a statement:

"It is not acceptable that Formula One no longer transfers technology to our road cars. The aerodynamics is now becoming something which has nothing to do with the research. ( ) This cannot be a sport in which there is no longer testing on the track. We have run out of patience. We are car manufacturers, not sponsors. As Ecclestone said, 'it's a joke...'".

Should care more about his own glass house IMO.

Well, "Gaga Bueno", that man is the president of Ferrari, an important figure in the FIAT empire and a sought after manager who has received repeatedly offers to be minister of economy in Italy. He masterminded not only the 70s Ferrari era and the 90s/2000s Ferrari era, but also was the successful manager of the 1990 soccer world championship in Italy.

I take it that your qualifications, of course, are much higher than that.

[Gagá Bueno]

In terms of content, Luca di Montezemolo is certainly right. If testing were allowed again - not unlimited testing, but enough to give also young drivers a fair chance as well as help the teams test on track if their results on the drawing board are correct. It's always been part of the sport and the lack of testing makes F1 development increasingly a virtual exercise.

Right he might be, but when was Ferrari known for grooming young talent, excepting Massa? The initiative with the Driver Academy is pretty recent and did start ( wonder of wonders... ) exactly together with the testing ban 2009/10 IIRC. And I would really like to know if LdM would complain so much about aero dominance if Ferrari would have comparable know-how, personal and facilities as Red Bull...