47 replies to this topic

[mattferg]

Just for fun, not to rate drivers or imply an ability ranking, I've listed all the drivers in order of their 'championships ' won (this includes constructors!). Feel free to comment with your opinion! For clarification, for drivers with the same number I've prioritized WDCs won then gone by date.

1. Sebastian Vettel - 6 (3 WDCs and 3 WCCs)
2. Fernando Alonso - 4 (2 WDCs and 2 WCCs)
3. Kimi Raikkonen - 3 (1 WDC and 2 WCCs)
4. Mark Webber - 3 (3 WCCs)
5. Jenson Button - 2 (1 WDC and 1 WCC)
6. Felipe Massa - 2 (2 WCCs)
7. Lewis Hamilton - 1 (1 WDC)

Note: Constructors count for both, drivers only for the winning driver.

Let me know if I've forgotten anyone!

[sailor]

Just for fun, not to rate drivers or imply an ability ranking, I've listed all the drivers in order of their 'championships ' won (this includes constructors!). Feel free to comment with your opinion! For clarification, for drivers with the same number I've prioritized WDCs won then gone by date.

1. Sebastian Vettel - 6 (3 WDCs and 3 WCCs)
2. Fernando Alonso - 4 (2 WDCs and 2 WCCs)
3. Kimi Raikkonen - 3 (1 WDC and 2 WCCs)
4. Mark Webber - 3 (3 WCCs)
5. Jenson Button - 2 (1 WDC and 1 WCC)
6. Felipe Massa - 2 (2 WCCs)
7. Lewis Hamilton - 1 (1 WDC)

Note: Constructors count for both, drivers only for the winning driver.

Let me know if I've forgotten anyone!

Surely one WDC should be worth double that of one WCC

[seahawk]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

So I think it is:

1. Lewis Hamilton 1
2.
Alonso 0
Vettel 0
Button 0
5.
Kimi -1
6.
Massa -2
7.
Webber -3

[Clatter]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

So I think it is:

1. Lewis Hamilton 1
2.
Alonso 0
Vettel 0
Button 0
5.
Kimi -1
6.
Massa -2
7.
Webber -3

You could have had the best car, but teamed with a poor team mate.

Really not sure what the point of this thread is if it's not trying to make a certain drivers look better.

[LiJu914]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

By that logic Mika Hakkinens performance in 1999 was better due to crashing out of the Imola GP and Monza GP as it only ruined the WCC for McLaren but not his WDC.

[BenettonB192]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

So I think it is:

1. Lewis Hamilton 1
2.
Alonso 0
Vettel 0
Button 0
5.
Kimi -1
6.
Massa -2
7.
Webber -3

[eric2610]

And if your Name is Lewis Hamilton you get an extra point for beeing Lewis Hamilton and if you believe you are Aytron Senna you get an extra point for beeing Lewis Hamilton for which you get an extra point for beeing Lewis Hamilton again.
What else do we have? Oh yes how about an extra point for beeing equal to Fernando Alonso in your rookie year....


C'mon The intention of the Thread was to show who has achieved what in his career so far and I think it's a valid thread, maybe someone should ad how many times the driver has been runners up in the Championship aswell.

[seahawk]

But what is the point of such a list? It is easy to look at the statistics to see who won how many titles. If you want to draw any conclusions from it, you start using definitions of what achievement has to be ranked in which way to measure the success. But then again the statistics easily show who had the most success in F1.

[Seanspeed]

Really not sure what the point of this thread is if it's not trying to make a certain drivers look better.

Yerp

[sopa]

Actually made me wondering, how many drivers and by how much have been contributing to WCC's in the past. For instance Fisichella is a double WCC. Barrichello has lots of WCC's, while Coulthard has only one despite driving for top teams for long.

Mika Salo is a ~1/3 WCC.

Most incredible champion on the list would be Dave Walker (for most races was Lotus #2 in 1972), who along with Reine Wisell (only a couple of races) contributed precisely 0 points to Lotus WCC, which was singlehandedly delivered by team leader Fittipaldi.

[Anderis]

Is Luigi Fagioli a 1/10 WDC for sharing the race-winning car with Fangio in France in 1951?

[Kyo]

Is Luigi Fagioli a 1/10 WDC for sharing the race-winning car with Fangio in France in 1951?

nope. the points were divided between both drivers.

[Nonesuch]

It's a shame Rubens is no longer in F1 - he'd have been right up there with Vettel!

[gm914]

It should of course, be based on how many trophies the drivers have on their display-case in their homes.

Edited by gm914, 11 December 2012 - 18:36.

[P123]

It should of course, be based on how many trophies the drivers have on their display-case in their homes.

Podium places?

1 Michael Schumacher 155
2 Alain Prost 106
3 Fernando Alonso 86
4 Ayrton Senna 80
5 Kimi Räikkönen 69
6 Rubens Barrichello 68
7 David Coulthard 62
8 Nelson Piquet 60
9 Nigel Mansell 59
10 Niki Lauda 54
11 Mika Häkkinen 51
12 Lewis Hamilton 49
13 Jenson Button 49
14 Gerhard Berger 48
15 Sebastian Vettel 46
16 Carlos Reutemann 45
17 Jackie Stewart 43
18 Damon Hill 42
19 Riccardo Patrese 37
20 Graham Hill 36

[MP422]

It should of course, be based on how many trophies the drivers have on their display-case in their homes.

You don't think that guy has trophies ? Lol.... so naive...

[gm914]

You don't think that guy has trophies ? Lol.... so naive...

Oh dear.
I was referring to the fact that he wasn't allowed to keep his McLaren trophies.
Little joke. Panties untwisted.

[Anderis]

nope. the points were divided between both drivers.

Yes, but in fact, Fangio wouldn't have got his share of points if Fagioli had failed to deliver.

[Jimisgod]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

So I think it is:

1. Lewis Hamilton 1
2.
Alonso 0
Vettel 0
Button 0
5.
Kimi -1
6.
Massa -2
7.
Webber -3

The butterfly effect: if you go back in time and squash a butterfly, Lewis wins the championship.

[scheivlak]

Actually made me wondering, how many drivers and by how much have been contributing to WCC's in the past. For instance Fisichella is a double WCC. Barrichello has lots of WCC's, while Coulthard has only one despite driving for top teams for long.

Mika Salo is a ~1/3 WCC.

Most incredible champion on the list would be Dave Walker (for most races was Lotus #2 in 1972), who along with Reine Wisell (only a couple of races) contributed precisely 0 points to Lotus WCC, which was singlehandedly delivered by team leader Fittipaldi.

Coulthard has two BTW: not only with Mclaren in 1998 but also with Williams in 1994!

[mattferg]

It was just to highlight what drivers have achieved in their careers - I think it's interesting and adds another perspective to drivers people write off, like Rubens.

2nd places in WDC:

1. Fernando Alonso - 2 (2010 and 2012, 2007 isn't official)
2. Kimi Raikkonen - 2 (2003 and 2005)
3. Jenson Button - 1 (2011)
4. Sebastian Vettel - 1 (2009)
5. Felipe Massa - 1 (2008)
6. Lewis Hamilton - 1 (2007)

Edited by mattferg, 12 December 2012 - 13:01.

[Jovanotti]

It was just to highlight what drivers have achieved in their careers - I think it's interesting and adds another perspective to drivers people write off, like Rubens.

2nd places in WDC:

1. Fernando Alonso - 2 (2010 and 2012, 2007 isn't official)
2. Jenson Button - 1 (2011)
3. Sebastian Vettel - 1 (2009)
4. Felipe Massa - 1 (2008)
5. Lewis Hamilton - 1 (2007)
6. Kimi Raikkonen - 2 (2003 and 2005)

[mattferg]

Thanks, only started watching F1 in 2004 so I wouldn't know that :-)

[sailor]

I think a WCC won should reduce one point from the score, as if you won the WDC and the WCC you just had the best car.

So I think it is:

1. Lewis Hamilton 1
2.
Alonso 0
Vettel 0
Button 0
5.
Kimi -1
6.
Massa -2
7.
Webber -3

LOL - good thinking

[TurboF1]

This will not end well... It seems some people are suckers for punishment.

[Kingshark]

Lewis Hamilton won the 2008 championship with a car that did not win the constructors. Therefore, he earns 3 points for being champion without the best car. He also stalemated Fernando Alonso in equal equipment in his rookie season. Another point. He also kind of won the 2007 and 2012 championships. Another two points.

Lewis Hamilton - 6 time World Champion and counting.

[mattferg]

Lewis Hamilton won the 2008 championship with a car that did not win the constructors. Therefore, he earns 3 points for being champion without the best car. He also stalemated Fernando Alonso in equal equipment in his rookie season. Another point. He also kind of won the 2007 and 2012 championships. Another two points.

Lewis Hamilton - 6 time World Champion and counting.

Except the McLaren was the best car, Lewis made a lot of mistakes and Kovalienen did terribly.

[mattferg]

Lewis Hamilton won the 2008 championship with a car that did not win the constructors. Therefore, he earns 3 points for being champion without the best car. He also stalemated Fernando Alonso in equal equipment in his rookie season. Another point. He also kind of won the 2007 and 2012 championships. Another two points.

Lewis Hamilton - 6 time World Champion and counting.

Except the McLaren was the best car, Lewis made a lot of mistakes and Kovalienen did terribly.

[Jimisgod]

Except the McLaren was the best car, Lewis made a lot of mistakes and Kovalienen did terribly.

Let the little kids have their fantasies.

[mattferg]

Let the little kids have their fantasies.

If Hamilton hadn't had a pitlane crash with Raikkonen in Canada, and the penalty/pitstop mishap in Malaysia (which as a result became Ferrari wins) McLaren might have won the constructors, and had the most wins that year. Also note how the number of poles between McLaren and Ferrari that year were equal, most were Hamilton's and the only race Kovalienen won, Hamilton had DNF'd. The McLaren of that year was a car capable of winning the constructors, but as shown many times since, if you have an underperforming teammate it kinda hampers your chances. Throw Button in that car instead of Heikki and you get a double for McLaren that year.

Oh, and Hamilton's drive through in Japan. Another win lost which would've added to the constructors. As well as Valencia too.

Edited by mattferg, 27 December 2012 - 02:36.

[SpaceHorseParty]

If Hamilton hadn't had a pitlane crash with Raikkonen in Canada, and the penalty/pitstop mishap in Malaysia (which as a result became Ferrari wins) McLaren might have won the constructors, and had the most wins that year. Also note how the number of poles between McLaren and Ferrari that year were equal, most were Hamilton's and the only race Kovalienen won, Hamilton had DNF'd. The McLaren of that year was a car capable of winning the constructors, but as shown many times since, if you have an underperforming teammate it kinda hampers your chances. Throw Button in that car instead of Heikki and you get a double for McLaren that year.

Oh, and Hamilton's drive through in Japan. Another win lost which would've added to the constructors. As well as Valencia too.

The thing is, it's unfair to subtract points for WCC because the best car of the year is not always obvious, like in 1988, 2002 or 2004.

[Aateli]

Except the McLaren was the best car, Lewis made a lot of mistakes and Kovalienen did terribly.

Kovalainen wasn't terrible in 2008. He had three mechanical failures in the races compared to Lewis's zero. He was also pretty much on the same level in qualifying, if not faster, compared to Lewis who is arguably top two qualifier today. However, Lewis got the edge in Q3 with race fuel on, which affected negatively every single race weekend of Heikki's expect Silverstone. After the accident in Spain Heikki had a string of bad races and bad luck just like Button had this year. 2009 is another story tho.

Edited by Aateli, 27 December 2012 - 11:03.

[P123]

Yeah, that's all good, but it ignores Ferrari's own mishaps, so it's a weak 'what-if' analysis.

[DanardiF1]

I thought this thread was going to be about what each of the drivers on the 2013 grid had won in their whole careers so far, building up a picture of how an F1 driver makes his way up the ladder...

[ensign14]

Yes, but in fact, Fangio wouldn't have got his share of points if Fagioli had failed to deliver.;)

And Fangio wouldn't have had a sniff of points had Fagioli been delivering...

[ensign14]

I thought this thread was going to be about what each of the drivers on the 2013 grid had won in their whole careers so far, building up a picture of how an F1 driver makes his way up the ladder...

Which would of course be extremely interesting. I remember a British GP programme from circa 1988 doing so, most drivers had a list of lower formulae successes. One exception was a driver whose sole lower success was winning the British Fusegear FF1600 title a decade before. Fortunately for him Nigel Mansell's later F1 world title eclipsed most of the others' achievements.

[03011969]

I thought this thread was going to be about what each of the drivers on the 2013 grid had won in their whole careers so far, building up a picture of how an F1 driver makes his way up the ladder...

Quite. Either this one needs re-titling to '2013 Drivers and what they've achieved so far in F1', or a new thread is needed. Or both.

[P123]

Quite. Either this one needs re-titling to '2013 Drivers and what they've achieved so far in F1', or a new thread is needed. Or both.

I don't think it's even that, if the OP is anything to go by it's a confused mix of what driver/drivers have achieved.

[Vesuvius]

Vettel 3WDC, 1 Silver. 3WCC,1silver
Alonso 2WDC,2silvers, 1Bronze. 2WCC,1silver,3Bronzes
Kimi 1WDC,2silvers,2Bronzes. 2WCC,1silver,3 Bronzes
Button 1WDC,1Silver,1Bronze. 1WCC,3silvers,1bronze
Hamilton 1WDC,1silver. 0WDC,3silvers,2 bronzes

Edited by Vesuvius, 27 December 2012 - 14:04.

[Kvothe]

I don't think it's even that, if the OP is anything to go by it's a confused mix of what driver/drivers have achieved.

Indeed nevermind the Op's rather blatant agenda.

[Bloggsworth]

And if you don't approve of the driver deduct another point, so Button none - He's useless, give him a supermarket trolley...

[Dolph]

Thanks, only started watching F1 in 2004 so I wouldn't know that :-)

That doesn't explain it.

[Dolph]

Ok, I got my own system that's surely the best:

WDC won with different teams:

1. Fernando Alonso - 1
1. Kimi Raikkonen - 1
1. Lewis Hamilton - 1
1. Jenson Button - 1
1. Sebastian Vettel - 1

[DanardiF1]

Quite. Either this one needs re-titling to '2013 Drivers and what they've achieved so far in F1', or a new thread is needed. Or both.

I know a new thread has been made since, but surely we know what the 2013 drivers have achieved in F1? There's 5 World Champions, 1 with 3 titles, 1 with 2 titles and 3 with 1 each... simples.

[mattferg]

Indeed nevermind the Op's rather blatant agenda.

I don't really have one tbh, unless you're silly enough to think I'm anti-Lewis. I'm not at all :-) I like Vettel and am pretty ambivalent to the rest, except Alonso, who I'm not a big fan of.

[wepmob2000]

Kovalainen wasn't terrible in 2008.............. He was also pretty much on the same level in qualifying, if not faster, compared to Lewis who is arguably top two qualifier today. However, Lewis got the edge in Q3 with race fuel on, which affected negatively every single race weekend of Heikki's expect Silverstone.

Well he wasn't on the same level as Lewis in qualifying then was he..? Basically he was great in qualifying except in Q3 when qualifying performance really counts

[Sakae]

Lewis Hamilton won the 2008 championship with a car that did not win the constructors. Therefore, he earns 3 points for being champion without the best car. He also stalemated Fernando Alonso in equal equipment in his rookie season. Another point. He also kind of won the 2007 and 2012 championships. Another two points.

Lewis Hamilton - 6 time World Champion and counting.

I perceive both, McLaren and Hamilton alike, as perennial underachievers. Too much talk and boasting without results, if you consider P2 as a pedestal for first looser in line. History of ups and downs, lacking stamina associated with a thoroughbred to prevail in rat race that F1 is.
If I may, please spare me of talk disassociating Hamilton from McLaren, for he personifies to a great deal what McLaren is today. No other driver in history of F1, IMO, had so much given to him over the years, and what he has done with it, other than run away from the problem?

[Zava]

Well he wasn't on the same level as Lewis in qualifying then was he..? Basically he was great in qualifying except in Q3 when qualifying performance really counts

IIRC he was always running with fuel for 4-5 more laps than Lewis. he got lower fuel only for one weekend, guess which one was that.