80 replies to this topic

[tkulla]

I would trust all of the WDCs except for Schumacher. The rest of them will play fair - Michael will push as far as he thinks he can without being penalized. But now the ruthless Senna/Schumacher era is truly over.

With so many of the top drivers being fair and with the FIA cracking down on the crash kids we could see a golden age of gentlemen racers again.

[goldenboy]

He still gets involved in way too much trouble recently.

All I can remember from 2009 on: In Spain 2009 he put Alonso on the grass when he was already alongside in main straight. In Nurburgring 2009 he tried to scare Rubens that was 100% alongside to lift on the start and they touched then he punctured Lewis´ tyre. In Brazil 2009 he choped across too late and wipe Räikkönen´s nose in the start. Oz 2010 he did a stupid move on Lewis and punted him out. Valencia 2010 he failed to understand a slow car in front would brake much earlier and went over him. Then there´s the Turkey incident. Singapore 2010 he tried to hold a place by keeping half a nose inside Lewis again (sure, Lewis turned in anyway, but putting half your nose there is not smart). In Monza 2011 his incident with Massa was not nice again. In Abu 2012 he turned into Maldonado.

And I´m sure I missed other stuff, I can´t remember these crazy recent season races too well.

well if you include every incident he has been involved in including those where he was not at fault and those that were also the fault of the other driver 50% or more I can't take your analysis seriously. I think he has a bade rep from years ago when he was too cheeky. He has had some absolutely awesome dices with guys the last few years and been clean as a whistle which I doubt many of the newer guys would have been capable of doing. (his 2 or 3 lap DRS battle with lewis last year was a highlight for me)

As for some of the rest:
Button and alonso are the cleanest although button is maybe a little too passive but that's only if you compare it to the way they drive today, he's old school!

Hamilton: brilliant and does things that make my jaw drop sometimes. Literally. Causes incidents in the last few years as he doesn't seem to have the intimidation factor in his favour as much anymore, but I don't find this a fault really as it doesn't result in serious crashes and he is the one who usually ends up worse off so far. And what can he do anyway? Become more submissive? That would just end up worse. I honestly was amazed when people were trying to apportion even a single % of blame to him for maldo valencia.

Massa: the last few years - horrible. I can't tell you how sick I am of his slow ass turning in and causing an incident and hearing him cry over the radio "did you see what he just did!!!" a moving speed bump trying to blame others for it

Vettel: has slipped under the radar here but I believe is almost on par with alonso.

Kobayashi: a hell of a lot better this year. Most improved player The last few years I thought he was just plain stupid although he was getting a lot of praise for it.

Perez, Ricciardo, kova, glock, you know the type of guys I'm talking about: pretty safe pair of hands, but don't seem to do anything spectacular. Vergne behind them but it's his rookie year. Stupid accident with the turn in but I don't believe it was intentional as many commentators seemed to think. Why would he intentionally do that? Hopefully is better next year.

Gro/mal: nuff said and all been said before.

Schumi: not going to go into that but I must say I saw him have some great clean dices this year, both times with ricciardo I think and was great to watch.

Rosberg: bit of a basket case. Too submissive then seems to get too aggressive (but not that often really) as probably someone in the paddock called him out about being such a pussy

And the clear winner is.... KIMI. In his first year back from a break absolutely schooled everyone on wheel to wheel racing. No rust on that guy! Incredible that his skills were that sharp after a few years out. A+++

Edited by goldenboy, 13 December 2012 - 01:46.

[PinkZepStones]

Trust: Kimi Alonso Hamilton button Kobayashi webber

Wouldn't trust: Schumacher Vettel grosjean Maldonado Perez.

[boldhakka]

Trust: Kimi, Jenson, Fernando
Don't trust: Webber, Grosjean, Vettel, Massa, Lewis, Pastor, Perez

Within the second group there are differences as well. Grosjean knows there's a problem and wants to fix it but cannot because his brain cannot think more than one move ahead. Webber is a blatent hypocrite.

[sopa]

Would you trust Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton at Curva Grande in Monza?

[Lights]

Says its all.

Was about to post the exact same video.

[Skinnyguy]

well if you include every incident he has been involved in including those where he was not at fault and those that were also the fault of the other driver 50% or more I can't take your analysis seriously.

There´s one of these in the 8 incidents list, made without more than memory, where there is surely lacking stuff. If you don´t want to take it seriously is your problem.

And I wouldn´t have had that incident.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 December 2012 - 15:03.

[Skinnyguy]

Was about to post the exact same video.

Even better:



From 0:40 on. It´s brilliant how they made it through turn 3 rubbing their sidepods.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 December 2012 - 15:07.

[bub]

Kimi, Button and Hamilton are at the top of the list of drivers I would trust wheel to wheel. Grosjean and Maldonado at the bottom.

[Skinnyguy]

Would you trust Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton at Curva Grande in Monza?

Or Schumacher

But yeah, these guys didn´t make it to my trust list because from time to time they decide to run people off to avoid having to fight them in the next braking zone.

[OO7]

Would you trust Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton at Curva Grande in Monza?

Trick question .

[2ms]

Basically, this question boils down to who has the best car control skills, who is the most intelligent, and who is the most composed under pressure.

Kimi is in a league of his own on these. Button and Vettel have similar intelligence and car control, but maybe not the same poise.

[Anderis]

Says its all.

Not really.

It's a shame that video with Maldonado and Grosjean driving alongside throughout turn 12 and 13 in China is no longer available at youtube.

While I agree Button and Raikkonen are both trustworthy in wheel to wheel battles, one video can't say it all.

[Skinnyguy]

...one video can't say it all.

True. Want counts is what we´ve seen from them over the years.

[jrg19]

Lewis vs Mark at Korea 2011 was a great battle no contact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/15326210

From about 4:40

[ed24f1]

I think that if it was Maldonado or Grosjean that tried to overtake or get overtaken through Eau Rouge there'd still be bits of cars in the trees.;)

Edited by ed24f1, 13 December 2012 - 16:32.

[SpaMaster]

Agree with Button and Raikkonen being the drivers you can trust totally both in terms of skills and character (that is not being dirty).

Agree with Webber on okay with overtaking, but no so with defending. There is a reason why he is called Mark "The Chopper" Webber.

You absolutely cannot trust Maldonado, Grosjean and Perez at the moment. I don't think Grosjean is dirty, but just a problem with skills. With the other two, the problem is more than skills.

Alonso and Schumacher can absolutely handle any wheel to wheel situation in terms of skills, but both can be dirty at times, Schumacher more so than Alonso.

Hamilton is a supreme racer 95% of the times, but can lose his mind totally the remaining 5% times. So, during that 95% times, his skills are elite along with Button, Raikkonen, Alonso and Schumacher.

I have to make a mention on Heidfeld among the recent drivers. Has fantastic wheel-to-wheel skills, very sensible like Button and Raikkonen.

everybody except Maldonado, Grosjean, and maybe Hulkenberg.... Fail....

You are being way too harsh on Hulkenberg. That was just one incident. Get over it.. Not enough to drawn conclusion on a character.

[jrg19]

I have to make a mention on Heidfeld among the recent drivers. Has fantastic wheel-to-wheel skills, very sensible like Button and Raikkonen.

Forgot about Heidfeld, 40 odd consecutive classified finishes speaks for its self.

[2ms]

Agree with Button and Raikkonen being the drivers you can trust totally both in terms of skills and character (that is not being dirty).

Agree with Webber on okay with overtaking, but no so with defending. There is a reason why he is called Mark "The Chopper" Webber.

You absolutely cannot trust Maldonado, Grosjean and Perez at the moment. I don't think Grosjean is dirty, but just a problem with skills. With the other two, the problem is more than skills.

Alonso and Schumacher can absolutely handle any wheel to wheel situation in terms of skills, but both can be dirty at times, Schumacher more so than Alonso.

Hamilton is a supreme racer 95% of the times, but can lose his mind totally the remaining 5% times. So, during that 95% times, his skills are elite along with Button, Raikkonen, Alonso and Schumacher.

I have to make a mention on Heidfeld among the recent drivers. Has fantastic wheel-to-wheel skills, very sensible like Button and Raikkonen.


You are being way too harsh on Hulkenberg. That was just one incident. Get over it.. Not enough to drawn conclusion on a character.

My opinion is that Hamilton loses his mind on average about 10% of races and Alonso about 5% of races. Every season you see Hamilton cock up about 2 races for no reason other than apparent psychological breakdown. Every season you see Alonso cock up about 1 race for no reason other than apparent psychological breakdown.

[darkkis]

Trust: Räikkönen, Button, Vettel

Not trusting: Hamilton (tends to force people off to grass), Grosjean (just too crash prone), Maldonado (doesn't know when to give up..)

[Muppetmad]

I always love this video - both Kubica and Button clearly trusted each other enough to make that work.

[Levike]

I think Senna was quite fair. The case was just he was not an easy to take on...and was certeanly not easy to intimidate.
But i think if somebody was up for the task that there is no room for error then the duels were pretty exciting.Like with Mansell and Alesi.

A good example :



Levike

[noikeee]

Kubica (Kubica vs Massa in wet Japan, pretty fair both).

That was absolutely NOT fair, they were pushing each other out of the track again and again. Granted "out of the track" was still tarmac, and it did make for a fun battle but it's still not the sort of manners I want to see in F1.

[mangeliiito]

This one was sooo good!
I think Kimi learned a lot of knowing exactly where the car is in WRC

[BullHead]

Any of the drivers TBH, cos they hold superlicenses and are a lot more skilled than I am.
One opponent I would not trust is the PS3 - I've seen that bugger cheat.

[Skinnyguy]

That was absolutely NOT fair, they were pushing each other out of the track again and again. Granted "out of the track" was still tarmac, and it did make for a fun battle but it's still not the sort of manners I want to see in F1.

It´s hard to find a worse example for fair racing

[SpaMaster]

^ Yes, absolutely. But I think that was more about Massa than Kubica. An example of fair racing from Kubica came at the same track one year later with Raikkonen.

Edited by SpaMaster, 14 December 2012 - 18:56.

[Skinnyguy]

^ Yes, absolutely. But I think that was more about Massa than Kubica. An example of fair racing from Kubica came at the same track one year later with Raikkonen.

Yeah I remeber. He showed how to defend for several laps very well down that massive straight without doing anything fishy.

[Muppetmad]

^ Yes, absolutely. But I think that was more about Massa than Kubica. An example of fair racing from Kubica came at the same track one year later with Raikkonen.

Ah, yes. There used to be a video of it on YouTube, it's a real shame it's been removed - it was a master class in defensive driving.

[Jimisgod]

Trust: Button, Alonso, Raikkonen, Kobayashi, Hulkenberg, Vettel

Middle: Hamilton (remember 2011?), Massa, Webber, Perez

Not trust at all: Maldonado, Grosjean, Schumacher (because of this)

Edited by Jimisgod, 14 December 2012 - 20:23.