52 replies to this topic

[Group B]

Simple 'hindsight' question really; given the chance to change history would Mac stand by their choice or pick one of the other candidates listed?

[Afterburner]

'GANDALF'. Jeez.

[george1981]

From that list Perez looks as good as anyone else. But if they were allowed to take anyone I'd say they'd go for Vettel. Being German he could be part of their campaign to persuade Mercedes not to run their own team anymore and go back to giving McLaren factory support.

[Group B]

'GANDALF'. Jeez.

Yeah, realised that just too late

Edited by Group B, 13 December 2012 - 15:19.

[boldhakka]

Where's Grosjean? I heard he handles pressure well.

[Afterburner]

Yeah, realised that just too late

Funny thing is that I've never even read/seen/played anything to do with LotR; I just felt like being a wise-a%s.

[matthewf1]

What is the obsession with the Hulk? Everyone bangs on about Perez's mistakes, yet the Hulk could have won in Brazil but he instead took out Hamilton and got himself a penalty. If this was Perez there would have been uproar.

Perez and Hulkenberg both had a few good races last year, but everyone seems to be only remembering the Hulk's because they were later in the season.

[Absulute]

Some people were waxing lyrical about Perez and demanding he be put in Massa's seat IMMEDIATELY before he signed up with McLaren.

A couple of decent performance from Hulk and he's suddenly one of the top drivers on the grid.

Odd.

[Burtros]

no-one on that list other than the one they have signed. Maybe Hulkenberg, yet to see what the fuss is about him though. Next year will show, he does look like one of the best of that group though.

As for Grosjean, as McLaren fan I wouldnt be upset to see him given a chance. He is so bloody fast that if he could get some consistency he could be amazing!

Edited by Burtros, 13 December 2012 - 15:42.

[Slartibartfast]

'GANDALF'. Jeez.

'RUDOLF'. Jeez.

[ayali]

I think they would still sign Perez.
Only other candidate would be Hulkenberg
The rest are OK drivers but nothing special
It's upto Perez (and Hulkenberg @ Sauber) to prove they are something special

Lastly one should consider that Perez comes with fringe benefits such as his nationality and Slim/Telmex

[UPRC]

Where's Grosjean? I heard he handles pressure well.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Nothing has really changed since Perez has signed so I don't see why they'd change their mind. Perez is still a question mark and Hulkenberg seems like a better bet.

[jee]

Where is Maldonado?

[Fastcake]

No, why would they? Perez is the best of those and has more than shown he has the talent to drive a top car.

[discover23]

there is a lot of hype with Hulk when his pace is still in question for being unable to outperform an aging Rubens Barichello something that Maldonado had no problem doing.
IMO he is consistent point scorer, but nothing special .. a journey man, worthy of a seat but not WDC material. Mclaren knew this and I believe that was the main reason why they did not go with him.. They already have Button for that.

Edited by discover23, 13 December 2012 - 17:00.

[gm914]

'GANDALF'. Jeez.

'RUDOLF'. Jeez.;)

'ADOLF'. Jeez.

Edited by gm914, 13 December 2012 - 17:00.

[LiJu914]

there is a lot of hype with Hulk when his pace is still in question for being unable to outperform an aging Rubens Barichello something that Maldonado had no problem doing.

1st Maldonado didn´t clearly outperform Rubens

2nd You know that Hulkenberg and Maldonado were teammates in GP2, right? Hulk was a rookie and PM had almost two years experience in the series: Guess who won the championship and who finished 6th?

Rubens had a good year in 2010 and could use his experience in a much better way than 2011, when Pirelli arrived and put F1 upside down.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 December 2012 - 17:05.

[Group B]

No, why would they? Perez is the best of those and has more than shown he has the talent to drive a top car.

Well, that's the question; the reason I asked it is that several different season end polls have not placed Perez uber highly, and many people would argue that he faded a touch in the second half of the season. As someone else suggested in a different thread, were they a bit too convinced too early?

[discover23]

1st Maldonado didn´t clearly outperform Rubens

2nd You know that Hulkenberg and Maldonado were teammates in GP2, right? Hulk was a rookie and PM had more than a year experience in the series: Guess who won the championship and who finished 6th?

Rubens had a good year in 2010 and could use his experience in a much better way than 2011, when Pirelli arrieved and put F1 upside down.

I was talking about pace.. We all know that Maldo makes a ton of mistakes and lacks consistency, and Hulk is the complete opposite.

Edited by discover23, 13 December 2012 - 17:06.

[Group B]

I was talking about pace.. We all know that Maldo makes a ton of mistakes and lacks consistency, and Hulk is the complete opposite.

Yeah, he looked downright pedestrian in Brazil.

[Risil]

Well, that's the question; the reason I asked it is that several different season end polls have not placed Perez uber highly, and many people would argue that he faded a touch in the second half of the season.

Maybe a few of those many people have short memories.

It's a shame Perez and Hulk can't both obtain competitive machinery but given his performances at Malaysia, Canada and Monza I want to see how Perez does at Mclaren.

[Risil]

Yeah, he looked downright pedestrian in Brazil.

I dunno, he made fewer mistakes than Alonso and Vettel.

[Buttoneer]

Nothing has really changed since Perez has signed so I don't see why they'd change their mind. Perez is still a question mark and Hulkenberg seems like a better bet.

Agree with this.

Hulk would have been my first choice but perhaps when you weigh up the potential benefits and include the shadow of Carlos Slim Perez is a more compelling offering. Perez has still got some very impressive 2012 performances under his belt and I don't think he will disappoint, but he just might not set their world on fire.

[LiJu914]

I was talking about pace.. We all know that Maldo makes a ton of mistakes and lacks consistency, and Hulk is the complete opposite.

Ah pace, i see.

Hulk outqualified Maldonado 10-0 in 2009 and if i would analyze how every race unfolded back then, i doubt it would put a much brighter light on PM.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 December 2012 - 17:13.

[discover23]

Ah pace, i see.

Hulk outqualified Maldonado 10-0 in 2009 and if would analyze how every race unfolded back then, i doubt it would put a much brighter light on PM.

so he could not translate that raw speed to F1. It happens. not all GP2 champions set the world on fire.. Kovalainenen.. Rosberg...etc..

Edited by discover23, 13 December 2012 - 17:14.

[LiJu914]

so he could not translate that raw speed to F1. It happens. not all GP2 champions set the world on fire.. Kovalainenen.. Rosberg...etc..

Kovalainen is no GP2 champ.

And what´s exactly wrong with Rosberg?

There are GP2-champions and GP2-"champions". Some win it instantly (Hamilton, Rosberg, Hulkenberg) and some need a while (Grosjean, Maldonado etc.).

[Rikhart]

To this day i still can´t understand why mclaren didnt sign raikkonen, he´s one of the clear top 4 drivers in F1 (and a world champion, as opposed to a completely unknown factor), and was on a 1 year contract. I´m sure he wouldnt mind rejoining mclaren.

[discover23]

It is my opinion that by now Rosberg would have been driving a Mclaren/Ferrari/RedBull if he was a top dog or considered to be one by the team principals.
My whole point was to show that success in GP2 (Hulk vs Maldo) is not necessarily applicable when rating drivers in Formula 1 as their careers - post GP2 - can shift for better or worse depending on their results and how they fair against teammates.

Yes, I forgot that Kova was not a GP2 champ but he was very highly rated before he entered F1 and we all know how that went as soon as he was teamed up against Lewis.

[LiJu914]

It is my opinion that by now Rosberg would have been driving a Mclaren/Ferrari/RedBull if he was a top dog or considered to be one by the team principals.

Not saying that Rosberg is a secret superstar....but Jenson Button might ring a bell.

My whole point was to show that success in GP2 (Hulk vs Maldo) is not necessarily applicable when rating drivers in Formula 1 as their careers - post GP2 - can shift for better or worse depending on their results and how they fair against teammates.

Yeah, but you failed to show that for this specific example. Most fans, "experts", and even principals think, that Hulk had a way better season this year than Maldonado (despite winning a race). Your "triangle-comparison" via Barrichello is quite useless, which we can witness for many other comparisons of this kind.

[bub]

I think they'd still go with Perez because of the commercial aspects and the fact that there is a question mark over all the guys listed in the poll.

[PayasYouRace]

Sergio hasn't even sat in a McLaren yet. Perhaps this is a bit premature?

[Anderis]

there is a lot of hype with Hulk when his pace is still in question for being unable to outperform an aging Rubens Barichello something that Maldonado had no problem doing.

It was not like this.
Maldonado didn't outperform Barrichello with no problem. They were closely matched.
Also Hulkenberg was closely matched with Rubens in second half of the 2010. It took him some time to deliver, but when he did it, he was able to outscore Rubens in the second half of that season.

[g1n]

They should have signed MSC at least for one year, if that did not work out they could have always get someone else.

[Rybo]

Too early to call, but I think Hulk is a better driver. That said in sure they would have Hamilton back, they mad him a great offer that Mercedes bettered.

[Jimisgod]

They should have signed MSC at least for one year, if that did not work out they could have always get someone else.

not sure if serious

[Mc_Silver]

They would keep Perez.

I really cannot understand the hype about Hulkenberg. His performance in the first half of the season was way off. Only in the last 6-7 races, he performed better than his team-mate and he does not even have 1 podium finishes but still there are many people defending the idea Hulkenberg performed better than Perez. Some people have short-term memory really.

Perez's pace was outstanding in Malaysia, Monza, Canada and Monaco. Kobayashi and even other drivers were nowhere near him pacewise during these races.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 13 December 2012 - 19:43.

[MP422]

Perez and Hulkenberg make sense but realistically Perez did something in 2012 where as hulk not so much. Monza and Malaysia were exciting drives from the young mexican.

[showtime]

Im sure that contract has performance clauses so no panic at woking. Personally i would have liked to see jaime there but its not going to happen

[MP422]

Im sure that contract has performance clauses so no panic at woking. Personally i would have liked to see jaime there but its not going to happen

He got the raw deal.

[Anderis]

I really cannot understand the hype about Hulkenberg. His performance in the first half of the season was way off. Only in the last 6-7 races, he performed better than his team-mate and he does not even have 1 podium finishes but still there are many people defending the idea Hulkenberg performed better than Perez. Some people have short-term memory really.

Not only in the last 6-7 races. The general tendency was that Hulkenberg was performing better since Barcelona. Di Resta had a clear edge only between Malayisia and Bahrain (total amount of 3 races) and even in those 3 races the gap between them was very small (apart from Bahrain where Hulk had clutch problems). Since then, di Resta never really outperformed Hulk in two consecutive weekends.

He does not have even 1 podium finish but so didn't have their team-mates in the same car. I'm fairly sure this year's Sauber was giving much better opportunity to be on the podium on occassion than Force India.

This is not down to short-term memory in my case.

[ViMaMo]

Kobayashi !

[Nobody]

Hope Checo's got a good humble pie recipe, he'll be serving it to a lot of people next year...

just a hunch

[goldenboy]

Should definately have signed hulkenberg. But they have more data than we do.

[seahawk]

Perez all the way. Slim´s money and the interesting marketing options of a Mexican driver are way more interesting than another medicore German driver in a fast car.

[bourbon]

Last race-itis. I think McLaren would choose Perez now as they did then. He is a little sparker!

[Group B]

Perez all the way. Slim´s money and the interesting marketing options of a Mexican driver are way more interesting than another medicore German driver in a fast car.

Well if you consider Hulkenberg mediocre you either know more than almost all experts and fans, or you're completely cllueless, or you have an agenda. Pretty sure I know which ;)

Edited by Group B, 14 December 2012 - 08:15.

[LuckyStrike1]

Nothing has changed since they made the decision and all those options were there for them and the chosed Perez.

[billm99uk]

I wouldn't have too many regrets, unless they're looking for a "safe pair of hands" in 2013, which Perez certainly isn't. But then they wouldn't have picked him in the first place. Hulkenburg is probably the only one you'd seriously consider but then I think he is a little overrated at the moment since his better performances came near the end of the season, whereas Perez went on a late season crashing spree. And "You're only as good as your last race " round here...

[Talisman]

Well if you consider Hulkenberg mediocre you either know more than almost all experts and fans, or you're completely cllueless, or you have an agenda. Pretty sure I know which ;)

While I don't think Hulkenberg is mediocre I do agree with the original point. Hulkenberg still holds a German passport while Perez is still Mexican. From a marketing and income point of view I'd take a Mexican with its booming economy over a German, British or Japanese driver any day with their stagnating markets.

By Whitmarsh's own admission Perez is about the same on pace with his midfield rivals according to McLaren's observations. I think they've been clear in their own way as to why they signed Perez up and it isn't about his performance on track.