16 replies to this topic

[Wirra]

I’ve just been watching my recently arrived Goodwood 2012 DVD and couldn’t help but notice the number of botched starts and I wonder if this was due in large part to the Starter’s technique. I recall that here in Oz the Starter would raise the flag with 5 seconds to go and then drop it to start the race. At Goodwood it was up and down in one motion but it appeared many drivers didn’t react until the downward movement. Was the 'up-down' always the Starter technique in the UK?

When I raced I always watched the Starter's technique to anticipate what would happen in my races. Some had a slow upwards movement, a short rock steady hold pattern and then a downward movement. Others would fast up, long hold (5 second) then down - some of those would have a give-away little extra raise before the downwards movement. I got the feeling some drivers at Goodwood were anticipating this ‘5 second’ technique.

This is in no way a criticism of the Starter who was very consistent but rather a query that drivers hadn’t bother to familiarise themselves with the Starter’s technique.

[arttidesco]

Was the 'up-down' always the Starter technique in the UK?

On the only two starts I made, at Brands Hatch, I was always so far back on the grid I could never see the starter, I just took off when everyone else did, thinking about it I'm not sure if there was a flag man or a light signal

[kayemod]

That doesn't surprise me at all, and I'd guess that sitting so low down in most cars, only those close to the front would see the flag drop clearly. That would be the main reason for changing over to lights, then everyone gets the same chance to anticipate the start, assuming there are no F1 type track sensors of course. And unless your name is Pastor Maldonado.

Edited by kayemod, 18 December 2012 - 09:36.

[Allan Lupton]

Our starters used the quick up-down movement in England as the opportunity to jump the start is minimal. That is particularly the case with handicap starts.

I believe that many races are started using light signals these days, though perhaps not in "historic racing", and of course the Goodwood event does attract competitors from overseas where start signals may include the 5 seconds aloft, then drop, that Wirra mentions. People used to that last could be caught out by the quick up-down of course.

[Stephen W]

Having a flagman is a bit OTT after all it is supposed to be a HILLCLIMB. At hillclimbs the driver goes after he gets the green light. That is to say the clocks only start when he breaks the beam at the start NOT when the light goes green or the flag drops.

I did notice at Cholmondley this year that the people who hillclimbed & sprinted made far better starts than the racing drivers - I suspect it's because they get more practice at starts than the racers.

[David Beard]

Having a flagman is a bit OTT after all it is supposed to be a HILLCLIMB.

I assumed the discussion was about the Revival...

[Catalina Park]

I used to try and watch the starter on previous races, it didn't matter if it was a flag or lights.
With the usual starters at my local tracks I used to take off when I knew the flag was going to fall or when the light was going to going to change and not wait for it to actually happen.
Except for that one time at Bathurst when I anticipated everything except for sticking the car in the correct gear and stalling at the start.

[Allan Lupton]

I used to try and watch the starter on previous races, it didn't matter if it was a flag or lights.
With the usual starters at my local tracks I used to take off when I knew the flag was going to fall or when the light was going to going to change and not wait for it to actually happen.

That's the way to do it!
Unless you're in the first race of course.

[AAGR]

I may have noted this elsewhere, but in the 1960s I clearly recall that when Jack Brabham was in his pomp, and would often start from Pole, he usually 'ran' the starts himself.

Several drivers used to say : We don't watch the starter. When Jack goes, we all go with him ....'

AAGR

[rbm]

having raced at the revival in 2011 (and as the first car race of the weekend) I can say with being mid grid on a wet track I had half an eye on the flag and the rest on the cars futher up the track - going over the top of another car is not great in my experiance.

Will I remember the how the flag was used in 2011 by 2014 if I am luck enough to get another invite - I doubt it.

Edited by rbm, 18 December 2012 - 13:42.

[HeskethBoy]

Will I remember the how the flag was used in 2011 by 2014 if I am luck enough to get another invite - I doubt it.

Perhaps a Driver's Briefing should include an explanation from the Starter explaining how and what they will do - especially as the events include drivers from all round the world where differing starting methods are used. Could prevent / minimise start-line dramas and damage?

[Lee Nicolle]

Glen Dix always did it well, you got 30 sec, 10 seconds 5 seconds then start. And it was on that so you could count it down in the car. none of this hide the flag caper. The lights are really like that too, though I did prefer a good starter like Glen.

[Catalina Park]

Glen Dix always did it well, you got 30 sec, 10 seconds 5 seconds then start. And it was on that so you could count it down in the car. none of this hide the flag caper. The lights are really like that too, though I did prefer a good starter like Glen.

Glen was awesome. You knew exactly what was going to happen and when. Such precision. I loved the theatrical way that he looked at his watch in an almost salute so that you knew he was counting down the seconds, then the way he unfurled the flag raised it and lowered it in such a precise manner.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, it was like a salute...

Precision unmatched, and a bit of flair as he waved the chequered flag as well.

[bradbury west]

Perhaps a Driver's Briefing should include an explanation from the Starter explaining how and what they will do - especially as the events include drivers from all round the world where differing starting methods are used. Could prevent / minimise start-line dramas and damage?

I was under the impression that the CoC who did the very rigorous drivers' briefing was John Felix, who is also the starter with the flag. Perhaps DCN can correct me if I err.
Roger Lund

[Stephen W]

I was under the impression that the CoC who did the very rigorous drivers' briefing was John Felix, who is also the starter with the flag. Perhaps DCN can correct me if I err.
Roger Lund

Correct Roger; John has been officer commanding for several years at Goodwood's Revival.

[john winfield]

I was having a look at flag technique at the start of British Grand Prix, and other events, in the early 1970s. Many races involved a swiftly raised flag, short hold of around a second, then quickly down. I can't see any clear footage of Dean Delamont starting the 1971 GP but I presume Regga began to creep while the flag was raised, so DD refused to drop it until he stopped, the result being half the grid moving into handy gaps while the well-behaved stayed still! Regga half way to Copse.
I like the mobile starter's gantry at Brands - it looks very exciting. The flag waver seems almost in line with the poleman and, immediately the flag is dropped, his helpers wheel him at high speed back into the pit exit lane. Surely a starter must have occasionally tumbled head first onto the track? Or at least been left high and dry, as the pack approached, by disgruntled 'helpers'?

At the 1972 GP at Brands (4.15min approx), the starter's mobile gantry is just off the track; looks terrifying if anyone were to veer to the right!

Edited by john winfield, 20 December 2012 - 10:42.