47 replies to this topic

[brucemoxon]

'They don't make them like they used to'. And a Good Thing, too.

I've been driving wedding cars these past few weeks, trying to keep body and soul under a roof while I seek a 'real' job.

An old car club contact runs a wedding car business here in Sydney, using old (he'd say 'classic') English cars. Mostly Jaguars.

He has several Mk 4 and 5 Jaguars, both fixed and drop-head. I'm yet to have a steer of any of these, but so far have sampled a pair of LWB Daimler Limousines - a 1961 V8 and a 1969 six, a Mk8 and a 3.8 S-Type Jaguar.

Ignoring the fact that it's a sweltering, humid summer here and none of these cars are air-conditioned, it's been interesting. Dealing with four-wheel drums (you're never sure which one is going to take up first), non-power steering that's both heavy and slow at the same time, fixed front seats in the Daimlers (good thing I'm not all that tall, is all I'm saying) and the challenges of working out which bits do and don't work and when, or under what circumstances, it's been fun.

Of course, brides who didn't realise the cars don't have air-con can be amusing, on one level. Scary if you're close though. And people often look at you strangely when, after they notice the absence of seat-belts, you promise to 'look for something soft to hit.'

The cars look magnificent. They're all either grey or silver, some with black, to avoid clashes with white bridal wear. But look closely... Poor panel fit, cracks in the trim, various Lucas electrical faults... Some of the twin-tank cars have only one working fuel pump - cannibalised to fix another car, for instance. And I got a flat tyre in the Mk8, with the groom and best man on board, on a day that set a new temperature record. I'd never had to deal with a wheel spat before!

Some pictures?

'61 Daimler. This car used to belong to the Governor of Victoria and Her Majesty QE11 has ridden in it. As an avowed Republican (Australian version) I'm not sure how to feel about that.



'68 Daimler (the same as the one blown up in Patriot Games - a good use)



Mk8



3.8 S-Type (my favourite so far. Not only the most modern and sporting, but has fewer faults. And goes like stink.)




But none of these are what I'd call 'Practical Classics' - cars you could drive daily.

Edited by brucemoxon, 23 January 2013 - 23:08.

[GMACKIE]

Very nice, Bruce.

Reminds me of a time, a few years back, when a friend asked if he could have a drive of my 1923 Peugeot '175'. "Sure Bruce" [his name was Bruce, also] I replied.

He was a Jaguar and Mini man, but a very experienced driver, so I wasn't worried. At the bottom of a hill, Bruce complained that the brakes didn't work, however, after quickly explaining that there was NO power assistance, I saw the brake pedal go down a bit harder, and we stopped at the stop sign.

When we got back to my place, Bruce remarked "They don't make them like they used to". Made me me feel quite proud......until he added - "Thank goodness!"

[seldo]

Sounds like the mob my daughter used for her wedding a couple of years ago. She had a silver and black MKV and a Princess R. One supposedly had "air" but, unusually, it wasn't working....
They were, as you state, ok from a distance but didn't really stand close scrutiny.
As the bride's father, I rode in the MKV with her, and it was a big reality check, and makes you realise how far we have progressed, and thank goodness for today's Asian electrics vs 'The Prince of Darkness'....

[arttidesco]

I was surprised to learn recently that the Daimler Majestic Major could do over 120 mph when new, hope you have the correct tyre pressures on it

[brucemoxon]

I was surprised to learn recently that the Daimler Majestic Major could do over 120 mph when new, hope you have the correct tyre pressures on it ;)

The V8 might, but the six has a really short diff - it's doing 3,000 rpm at 50 mph and is redlined at 5,500.

Actually, with that long wheelbase, it would be pretty stable at high speed. Just as long as you didn't have to stop in a hurry...




Bruce Moxon

[arttidesco]

The V8 might, but the six has a really short diff - it's doing 3,000 rpm at 50 mph and is redlined at 5,500.

Actually, with that long wheelbase, it would be pretty stable at high speed. Just as long as you didn't have to stop in a hurry...




Bruce Moxon

Yes it was the V8 I was thinking of, as you say bringing her to a stop from that speed might be interesting

[David Birchall]

I have a 1935 Bentley and used to use it for weddings when I owned the Bellhouse Inn. Very similar experience, people expected a/c, seat belts, sound system. They seemed to enjoy the "special occasion" more in an unusual car though. One time with the vehicle loaded with the bride in her finery, maids looking like jail bait and me in tails the bloody car wouldn't start! I diagnosed a blown fuse with a speed that left me impressed but probably not the bride...

[Ray Bell]

Only one thing to say here...

Wait until Terry Walker sees this thread!

[seldo]

Yes it was the V8 I was thinking of, as you say bringing her to a stop from that speed might be interesting

The Majestic Major was a pretty good gadget and I believe its 4.5 l V8 produced 230bhp at the time. They actually stopped pretty well due to 4 wheel discs

[Odseybod]

Sounds to me as though the maintenance has been, shall we say, a little skimpy, maybe not helped by the high temperatures (is that why the Mk VIII has its bonnet ajar?).

The DS 420 (Daimler six if you prefer) was actually based on the Jaguar 420G (alias Mk X), so should have discs all round - maybe the low final drive ratio was a special option for funeral directors? Glad the 3.8S is going well anyway, though it's starting to look a little crusty along its bottom

[Bloggsworth]

Am I right in my recollection of that Daimler V8 having hemi-heads. Someone definitely put one in the back of a Can-Am style big sports car, can't remember which.

[seldo]

Am I right in my recollection of that Daimler V8 having hemi-heads. Someone definitely put one in the back of a Can-Am style big sports car, can't remember which.

Yes - Correct. It was a pretty good thing at the time and used to make that large mass hurry along in a quite undignified fashion...

[arttidesco]

Yes - Correct. It was a pretty good thing at the time and used to make that large mass hurry along in a quite undignified fashion...

I understand the Edward Turners hemi head 4.5 V8 also pushed a Jaguar Mark X around MIRA at an average speed of 135 mph, which appears to have put Mr Lyons nose was out of joint, not sure if that was because he thought the speed was too fast for the Mk X or because his own best XK motor could not keep up.

[Ray Bell]

The Daimler 4.5 engine was also well-used on British hills...

There was a successful Felday Daimler, was there not?

[Tim Murray]

Yes indeed - Peter Westbury won the 1963 British Hillclimb Championship driving the Felday-Daimler. This used a supercharged version of the 2.5 litre Daimler V8 engine.

[Ray Bell]

Well that's not the 4.5, is it?

Though I believe I read somewhere that they used the same rods. Which were also component parts of the Repco-Brabham V8 engines.

[Tim Murray]

Well that's not the 4.5, is it?

Indeed, that's the point I was hoping to get across.

[bradbury west]

'They don't make them like they used to'. And a Good Thing, too....
I've been driving wedding cars these past few weeks, trying to keep body and soul under a roof while I seek a 'real' job....
An old car club contact runs a wedding car business here in Sydney, using old (he'd say 'classic') English cars. Mostly Jaguars.
He has several Mk 4 and 5 Jaguars, both fixed and drop-head.

Like these, which I saw when we were "down your way" in Sydney. ISTR they were down near the bridge. Apologies for the subdued colour, but it was getting towards early evening. There were also a couple of old white US convertibles, one a 4 door.
Pics taken on a little Fuji 450. Click on images for larger view.


Roger Lund. by whom copyright is claimed, all rights reserved.

edit

BTW ISTR that it was generally regarded that Donald Stokes' decision to bury ALL the new, unused, Majestic parts and spares under concrete was a simple act of jealous malevolence/malevolent jealousy because he realised the Majestic esp in V8 form, left the podgy old Mk X for dead.

Edited by bradbury west, 24 January 2013 - 15:08.

[RogerFrench]

Back in 1969 my wife and I, and another couple, were touring Skye in a couple of small sports cars, when we were both overtaken by one of those 4.5 Daimlers powering a hearse, fortunately unoccupied in the business area.
We met up with it a few miles along, at a watering hole, and the driver explained that he needed to hurry so he could get lunch before the next ceremony. I remember some banter about undertakers and overtakers, but that hearse could certainly hustle along!

[Allan Lupton]

I was surprised to learn recently that the Daimler Majestic Major could do over 120 mph when new, hope you have the correct tyre pressures on it ;)

We who were around at the time will tell you that all the performance figures of the Majestic Major and the SP250 except fuel consumption were much the same! That made the 'Major a sporting car for the older enthusiast, we thought. There was a limousine version too, but why pay for a car like that and let a chauffeur have the fun!

ETA Reminded by Roger's tale, when John Salmons, one of our motor club rallymen, died we had great difficulty keeping up with the (Daimler) hearse as it ear'oled down the side roads from Hemel Hempstead to Garston crem. - seemed suitable as John always had been a press-on merchant

Edited by Allan Lupton, 24 January 2013 - 17:22.

[Sharman]

Mk V DFV548 Suede Green 21/2 which I drove many many miles was our first family Jaguar. It would just show 100mph on its very inaccurate speedo.
LNC 467 was not a Princess it was Sheerline, same engine though, also a family car, used to haul grandfather around, the only car he would travel in.
As an 18 year old turning up at the pub in it prompted questions about the location of the funeral. So low geared that 85 was top whack.

[brucemoxon]

The low gearing in the six-pot Daimler is to allow it to move its considerable bulk. Over two tonnes of it.

Those MkVs belong to an opposition firm. They do look nice, don't they? At least one organisation has fitted all their cars with more modern engines and gearboxes to provide greater reliability.

Our cars really do all need to come off the road and get a proper going-over. All of them have faults ranging from niggles to verging on unroadworthiness. The owner of most of the cars sees them as a business tool, not a collection of fine antiques.



BM

[Lee Nicolle]

As a business tool I suggest they should be better maintained. As hire cars are supposed to be. And as a business tool a brake booster and decent aircond makes them A safer and B a lot more hireable.
Over the years I have driven a few of those cars, I used to service a 50s Daimler hire car which was all of the above. A wonky vague old piece of crap.Though at least he knew what was going to fall off or break down next. I passed that job onto someone more interested in those cars.
My uncle owned a restored 3.8 manual mid 60s Jag, not hatefull but hardly pleasant either. Though he did not really like my Galaxie either! to a degree what you are used too. Though the vague slow steering on the Galaxie is defenitly the whole cars down fall. I am used to it but still do not like it.

[GMACKIE]

After driving my 30/98 Vauxhall [1921, E-type], with its two-wheel brakes, and 5.00x23" tyres, and 70MPH cruising speed, anything felt 'safe'.

Assuming all is well mechanically, what you MUST do is drive within the car's [and the driver's] capabilities at all times.

Modern cars, with all their cruise and climate control, quietness, etc. are perhaps TOO relaxing......I NEVER felt sleepy in the 'Thirsty'.

[Ray Bell]

True enough...

If you're a decent driver you can work around any problem without alarming your passengers. Hell, I just drove halfway across the USA without my wife ever finding out that we had a leaky front brake hose!

A testimony to the Torqueflite there.

[Lee Nicolle]

After driving my 30/98 Vauxhall [1921, E-type], with its two-wheel brakes, and 5.00x23" tyres, and 70MPH cruising speed, anything felt 'safe'.

Assuming all is well mechanically, what you MUST do is drive within the car's [and the driver's] capabilities at all times.

Modern cars, with all their cruise and climate control, quietness, etc. are perhaps TOO relaxing......I NEVER felt sleepy in the 'Thirsty'.

A mate [A sometime lurker on here] had a T model Ford but decided 2 wheel brakes and weird gearboxes etc were not very much fun. He upgraded to an A Model! A lot quicker, though his did lack for brakes but not pace. 100kmh on the freeway!!

[Terry Walker]

It's VERY embarrassing driving a Classic wedding car and having it lose a cylinder. I did a recent job in a Bentley S2 (V8) which went onto 7 and stayed on 7 all day. It's amazing how much effect it can have on everything: trying to make up for the reduction in power results in vibration, the reduction in torque affected the way the autobox worked, and the car shook when idling. All caused by a plug lead, but in those cars to get at the plugs you need a 4-post, 3-tonne capacity hoist and I didn't have one in the boot.

It's a lovely car otherwise, although the old 4-sp Hydra-Matic (High Dramatic) suffers from the inevitably thumpy shift from 2-3 and vice versa. Not too bad though for a 1938 Oldsmobile trans design.

I also punt a Daimler DS 420, which is near new, and runs exclusively on gas--not duel fuel. Way underpowered with a 4.2 six, but with the typically superb ride that Jag engineered into their cars (it's a Mk 10/XJ6 underneath). Plus a few Silver Shadows, which I happen to like. Shadows are good because they have a very modern feel, and amazingly tight turning circles. They also go like **** off a shovel, and have the really brilliant GM400 3-speeder. AND air-con. AND a boot big enough for a full-size esky or 2.

There are a few Jag Mk 8-9s around Perth running late model Falcon inline six engines and autoboxes, which fit in very nicely and are cheaper to service. There is also a stretch FJ Holden.

Bane of our lives are the endless procession of superstretched late model Hummers and Chrysler 300s. What amazes me is that these enormously long cars usually only have two doors at the very rear, so the passengers have to hands-and-knees down the enormous length to get out.

Ah, wedding car driving.

[brucemoxon]

Bane of our lives are the endless procession of superstretched late model Hummers and Chrysler 300s. What amazes me is that these enormously long cars usually only have two doors at the very rear, so the passengers have to hands-and-knees down the enormous length to get out.

Ah, wedding car driving.

The stretch Hummers are just vulgar.

Steve (owner) is keen to keep the cars close to original, so no retro-fitted AC for instance. He's also notoriously 'careful' with his money.




BM

[Lee Nicolle]

About 15 years ago here in Adelaide there was stretch everything! 55-57 Chevs, XY GT [mockup] XJ6, Fairlanes,Statesmans, stretch VW beetle as well as an A model hotrod stretch, Plus the usual American stretches, and Benzs, and Rollers etc.All about 4 feet longer than the original car.
These days umpteen Hummers, one in pink that the girls like, still the 'proper' stuff and the A model is still around.
Most of them including the proper ones are dreadfull though, they handle really bad. How they pass for hire car plates amazes me. I guess some of the odd stuff did not.

[D-Type]

Believe it or not, I have seen a stretched Lada - clearly somebody's idea of a joke.

[kayemod]

Most of them including the proper ones are dreadfull though, they handle really bad. How they pass for hire car plates amazes me. I guess some of the odd stuff did not.

One local authority in these parts did proper inspections of some stretched cars, decided they were unsafe, and took them off the road.

On the low gearing of those Austin Sheerlines, one elderly neighbour was fond of telling me how in 1950something, he once drove his from the centre of Bournemouth to Marble Arch for a bet, but he did the entire journey in top gear, never changing down once. There was no motorway or even dual carriageway in those days, and the A3 had traffic lights and went through town centres, so it can't have been easy.

[arttidesco]

Believe it or not, I have seen a stretched Lada - clearly somebody's idea of a joke.

... and I thought the stretch 2CV Dolly that used to be seen in Bristol was taking the Schumacher

[Terry Walker]

I've driven some 10-seater stretches, based on Fairlanes and (twitch) Silver Shadows. They are bastards because there are so many places you can't take them. Enormous turning circles, tendency to drag their bellies in driveways, nightmares to reverse. I don't drive them any more. Too much stress, no fun. Shorter six seater stretches are okay--eg the aforesaid Daimlers.

I don't know anything about steering geometry, but it seems to me a long stretch needs to have its ackerman steering geometry radically rearranged, since the original settings are for the original wheelbase.

There is quite an nice six-seat Silver Shadow stretch in Perth, where the rear compartment has the seats facing each other. It is based on a long-wheelbase with division model, which came originally with front and rear aircon. All the seats etc are original RR Shadow, and there are TWO rear compartment doors on the kerb side, so both rows of seats have easy exit. No undignified crawling around. The man who commissioned it didn't want the off "flat" look in the roof caused by straight panels, so he had the entire roof replaced with one from an XC Falcon station wagon, which had just the right curve to make the car look absolutely right.

Edited by Terry Walker, 26 January 2013 - 03:16.

[Allan Lupton]

I've driven some 10-seater stretches, based on Fairlanes and (twitch) Silver Shadows. They are bastards because there are so many places you can't take them. Enormous turning circles, tendency to drag their bellies in driveways, nightmares to reverse. I don't drive them any more. Too much stress, no fun.

Hereabouts there are or were some of those longer abominations that require the driver to hold a PSV licence. Most drivers one saw seemed not to understand any of the points Terry makes and one day, en route home from wedding duty for a friend's son in my 1910 Star I had great fun chasing a LHD stretch thingy into roundabouts . . .

[Bloggsworth]

The stretch Hummers are just vulgar.

Any Hummer is vulgar...


I never understand why it is OK to stretch a car to twice its length for "entertainment", but quasi-criminal if you take 2 crashed cars and mate a good front-end to a good back-end.

[Mistron]

My Pal runs a very similar fleet of wedding cars, largely without problems or incident - they have, I think, about 26 cars, ranging from Pre war SS/Jaguars through to '80s Daimler limos and 2 or 3 VW campers. I've driven a fair few of them and seen a wide range of Brides and their mothers on what seems to be a generally stressfull day......

On one ocassion the driver of a Bentley parked outside the brides house on a local job and went to let her know he was there when she was ready. On retuning to the car to wait he discovered it was on fire. This was rather inconvenient, as you can imagine! (Turned out a fuel bowl on the bulkhead had cracked, dumping fuel onto the exhaust, I think). The brides father had seen the fire and called the fire brigade whilst the driver got the small extinguisher from the boot to deal with it.

He then called the office who dispatched an identical car on a trailer and collected the the smouldering one. The ammusing thing was that he managed to deliver an apparently identical 50 year old car to the house BEFORE the fire brigade arrived!

The Bride appeared to take all of this in her stride, and it later transpired that she had just assumed 'old cars must just do that'! I suppose she had other things to worry about at the time, and she apparently rather enjoyed having her photo taken with the firemen too!

I've seen many a bride (and their mothers) who would not share this relaxed view.

Just shows that even well maintained and regularly used old cars have the potential to balls up even the best of plans. John maintains that the resultant publicity (local news) worked out well - lots of brides figured that their ability to replace the car quicker then the fire brigade could arrive said more about the service than the small inconvenience of the car catching light! Lucky it happened on a local job!!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Bloggsworth
.....I never understand why it is OK to stretch a car to twice its length for "entertainment", but quasi-criminal if you take 2 crashed cars and mate a good front-end to a good back-end.

Which reminds me of a story I once heard...

A plumber in Melbourne had several clients who had become slow in paying. Maybe the building industry was slack at the time, anyway all of his clients soon got to know he was about and chasing the debts.

One of them went to him, cap in hand, "Look mate, I'm pretty broke, but I do have a '64 Dodge Phoenix at home that's had a huge biff up the tail, the front's all right and the mechanicals are all good. How about you take that for part of my debt?"

A strange request, but this plumber thought it was better than sending the bloke broke before he could get paid and he should get something for the remains of this Dodge.

Then another one came to him, "I've got a '64 Dodge Phoenix that's run up the back of something at home, it's okay from the windscreen back, maybe you could wreck it out and get some of the money I owe you out of that?"

Neither of the debtors knew of the other or of the other's offer. But the plumber soon engaged an engineer to rope the two halves together with an extra few feet in the middle. He drove it around for years, taking the kids' football teams to matches etc.

It now lives somewhere in South Australia... and I'm assured it was very sound structurally.

[BRG]

Ah, wedding car driving.

I thought that I read a story that some UK authority or other had decided that wedding cars are effectively taxis and should therefore comply with the rules for those, including criminal record checks for the drivers. Is this happening?

[brucemoxon]

My Pal runs a very similar fleet of wedding cars, largely without problems or incident - they have, I think, about 26 cars, ranging from Pre war SS/Jaguars through to '80s Daimler limos and 2 or 3 VW campers. I've driven a fair few of them and seen a wide range of Brides and their mothers on what seems to be a generally stressfull day......

On one ocassion the driver of a Bentley parked outside the brides house on a local job and went to let her know he was there when she was ready. On retuning to the car to wait he discovered it was on fire. This was rather inconvenient, as you can imagine! (Turned out a fuel bowl on the bulkhead had cracked, dumping fuel onto the exhaust, I think). The brides father had seen the fire and called the fire brigade whilst the driver got the small extinguisher from the boot to deal with it.

He then called the office who dispatched an identical car on a trailer and collected the the smouldering one. The ammusing thing was that he managed to deliver an apparently identical 50 year old car to the house BEFORE the fire brigade arrived!

The Bride appeared to take all of this in her stride, and it later transpired that she had just assumed 'old cars must just do that'! I suppose she had other things to worry about at the time, and she apparently rather enjoyed having her photo taken with the firemen too!

I've seen many a bride (and their mothers) who would not share this relaxed view.

Just shows that even well maintained and regularly used old cars have the potential to balls up even the best of plans. John maintains that the resultant publicity (local news) worked out well - lots of brides figured that their ability to replace the car quicker then the fire brigade could arrive said more about the service than the small inconvenience of the car catching light! Lucky it happened on a local job!!

I tell them that if nothing goes wrong, they don't have any good stories to tell later.




Bruce Moxon

[Bloggsworth]

I thought that I read a story that some UK authority or other had decided that wedding cars are effectively taxis and should therefore comply with the rules for those, including criminal record checks for the drivers. Is this happening?

I hope so...

[Lee Nicolle]

I've driven some 10-seater stretches, based on Fairlanes and (twitch) Silver Shadows. They are bastards because there are so many places you can't take them. Enormous turning circles, tendency to drag their bellies in driveways, nightmares to reverse. I don't drive them any more. Too much stress, no fun. Shorter six seater stretches are okay--eg the aforesaid Daimlers.

I don't know anything about steering geometry, but it seems to me a long stretch needs to have its ackerman steering geometry radically rearranged, since the original settings are for the original wheelbase.

There is quite an nice six-seat Silver Shadow stretch in Perth, where the rear compartment has the seats facing each other. It is based on a long-wheelbase with division model, which came originally with front and rear aircon. All the seats etc are original RR Shadow, and there are TWO rear compartment doors on the kerb side, so both rows of seats have easy exit. No undignified crawling around. The man who commissioned it didn't want the off "flat" look in the roof caused by straight panels, so he had the entire roof replaced with one from an XC Falcon station wagon, which had just the right curve to make the car look absolutely right.

That is what I was talking about. The XJ6 was the worst, it was near non directional. My business was on a busy main roads corner and we used to watch them go past regularly. The Jag defined 'push' at about 20kmh.
A lot of these devices are sagged in the middle too. look at the rooflines and door gaps. That includes a factory 70s Benz limo, clearly not the best of builds.
Here at least they dont seem to check for basics like steering geometry, or even the correct tyres. Just the so called safety like belts, seats, lights indicators and basic structural flaws.
While they are supposed to be engineered it seems a lot of consulting engineers have no idea whatever about the basics of steering. Just the structures. The same with hotrods and some wild custom stuff too. So many 'engineered' street rods that are so badly engineered as the be lethal.
Again the inspection station hassles people about laminated side windows [clearly marked but not slightly down in the door!], serviceable suspension bushes but forget basic geometry, and totally 'bound up' suspensions. Where on a beam axle effectivly both wheels go up on every bump,, or as a mate calls it a 2" I beam front sway bar! And this is the way they seem to have been done for decades.

[brucemoxon]

And so today, the 3.8S came home on the back of a truck; victim of a collapsed rear wheel bearing.

Old Mr Mechanical Sympathy here felt the movement and saved the day - the wheel stayed on the car! But boy does it have some negative camber now!

I hate old cars.




Bruce Moxon

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps you've finally found your calling in life, Bruce?

Did the tilt tray complete the trip to the church?

[GMACKIE]

I hate old cars.




Bruce Moxon

Old cars, modern cars.....ALL cars need proper maintenance.

[brucemoxon]

Did the tilt tray complete the trip to the church?

The car had the decency to wait until we were just a few minutes from the reception before failing.

Greg, you're right. Maintenance would be nice.




Bruce Moxon

[seldo]

The car had the decency to wait until we were just a few minutes from the reception before failing.

Greg, you're right. Maintenance would be nice.

Bruce Moxon

I guess these old cars just aren't up to the vigours of drifting.....;)

[brucemoxon]

I guess these old cars just aren't up to the vigours of drifting.....;)

They're probably not. And wash your mouth out for suggesting I would have any involvement in such a thing.

Motorkhanas and rallies, though... But not in these cars - would be pointless and frustrating.




BM

[arttidesco]

'They don't make them like they used to'. And a Good Thing, too.
But look closely... Poor panel fit, cracks in the trim, various Lucas electrical faults...

At least we can say the Daimler Majestic Majors panel fit was consistent



A couple of weeks ago some friends of mine sheltering from the heatwave in Alice Springs popped by and announced they were going to get married here in the UK, having declared they were against any wedding presents because they wished to travel light I offered the services of my Golf to transport Bride and Brides Father to the registry office and thence to a feast fit for kings. Nice fitting panels but unlikely to be etched to deeply in the memory of an otherwise perfect day