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Possible Alternative if the Nürburgring would close?


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#1 Sin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:12

Being a german I am worrying for the German GP at the moment, at least for 2013, there is still no announcement wether Nürburgring or Hockenheimring will hold it now.
With the financial crisis of the Nürburgring it is only worse that it isn't known yet and tickets can't be sold. And even if it will hold it this year, from the outside it seems to me like the track will close its gates soon.

Hockenheimring financially looks a little better but it seems to be in trouble as well from what the media says. So will the German GP be completely gone from the calendar in the next few years (which would be stupid since I wanted to go to Hockenheim 2014)?

What are the alternatives in germany? There is the Porsche testing track which would be perfect for me since easy to get to Picture, but I am pretty sure that this track won't be opened to race on for F1.

Then there is my personal favorite the Sachsenring Picture, which however holds mostly bike races (like Moto GP). And finally there is the Lausitzring Picture, which holds DTM Races and seems to be the most probable alternative to a second german GP, if Nürburgring vanishes.

These are the things how I see them, without having all too much knownledge. What are your opinions on that? Maybe instead of the German GP there will be a French or a Austrian GP again? Or one of the tracks I named? Or maybe another track (that I don't know about, being a n00b and all)?

I would be curious what you think.

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#2 SUPRAF1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:03

German presence in F1 is large enough that they'll definitely have a Grand Prix. I think extra funding will come in at the last minute, though i'm not sure from who :p.

In a way the German GP always saddens me. I watched F1 casually as a kid during Schumacher's dominating years and then stopped. I only just got back into it seriously around 2011 a few weeks before the German GP. I'd been playing a tonne of racing games, including SHIFT 2, which uses the word Nurburgring for the entire Nordschleife circuit.

So I was insanely excited thinking that the German GP was going to be held at Nordschleife circuit :rotfl:

Needless to say I was bitterly disappointed :p.



I think in the worst case scenario maybe Mercedes might fund the hosting fees? I can't imagine Bernie lowering it because then all other circuits would want it too.

Edited by SUPRAF1, 28 January 2013 - 06:03.


#3 GAZF1nut

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:08

Due to Vettel's current form I don't think they'll have an issue finding a new circuit...

Edited by GAZF1nut, 28 January 2013 - 06:09.


#4 seahawk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:15

If the German GP is not financially viable, it has to go. No need to use any form of government money to keep such an event. If even Hockenheim can not do it, nobody will.

#5 Sin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:12

Negotiations with the Nürburgring stopped

the article quotes: „Nach ausführlicher Prüfung Ihres Vorschlags können wir diesen für uns leider nicht als finanziell machbar akzeptieren und müssen unsere Verhandlungen beenden“ "After lengthy examination of your offer, we can't accept it as financially possible for us and have to end our negotiations."

http://www.handelsbl...er/7693864.html

#6 apoka

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:32

The management of the circuit was clearly a mess in the past. I still hope they find a way to solve the issues, but it has to be done quickly. There are less than 6 months left to organise everything and sell tickets, so I wouldn't be surprised to see less spectators despite Vettel/Rosberg/Hulkenberg (especially without MS on the grid).


#7 Clatter

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:16

Due to Vettel's current form I don't think they'll have an issue finding a new circuit...


If that were true then there would not be any issue to discuss here. The fact that the current circuits are in trouble is a good indication that a new one is not going to miraculously appear.

#8 Rinehart

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:07

If that were true then there would not be any issue to discuss here. The fact that the current circuits are in trouble is a good indication that a new one is not going to miraculously appear.


Personally I think its just a bit of posturing from Hockenhiem, Why pay Bernie's fee when the teams will DEMAND that there is a race in Germany due to the size of the market.



#9 Clatter

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:14

Personally I think its just a bit of posturing from Hockenhiem, Why pay Bernie's fee when the teams will DEMAND that there is a race in Germany due to the size of the market.


Possibly, but it's very late to start playing that game and despite any demands from the teams I think Bernie holds the cards.

#10 Rinehart

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:29

Possibly, but it's very late to start playing that game.


Precisely why they are playing it now.


#11 maverick69

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:10

I'm gonna go unorthodox and say the Norisring.

I reckon an F1 race on that track would be absolutely mental......... The F1 equivalent of Nascar at Bristol.

Edited by maverick69, 28 January 2013 - 10:14.


#12 jcbc3

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:15

I would love tp see an F1 car with 15 cm ground clearance navigating the bumps at Norisring. :clap:

#13 Rob

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:21

I think other than the Nurburgring or the Hockenheimring, the best bet is the Lausitzring. I can't imagine the Sachsenring being all that suited to F1 - imagine 20+ cars trying to find their way through the omega curve.

I like the Norisring suggestion, but only because it would amuse me. They'd never do it.

#14 jee

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:40

I would love tp see an F1 car with 15 cm ground clearance navigating the bumps at Norisring. :clap:


40 seconds lap times, Marussias caught for lapping after 2 laps :lol:

#15 Clatter

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:47

Precisely why they are playing it now.


If they are I think they will lose.


#16 maverick69

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:54

40 seconds lap times, Marussias caught for lapping after 2 laps :lol:


Yep!

I reckon there'd defo be a few drivers labeled as "cucumbers" after the race!

As they say - variety is the spice of life............

#17 noikeee

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:36

If neither Nurburgring and Hockenheim can pay, I think Bernie will still not want to set a precedent and just drop the GP for now, for this season at least. He wants to mantain appearances and won't give them any considerable discount, much less pay for the event.

The championship is getting VERY light on European races though, which means that sooner or later Bernie, even being Bernie, can't always win and will have to concede. I can't imagine Mercedes or a Vettel-led Red Bull being very happy at the lack of a German GP.

#18 wj_gibson

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:50

If neither Nurburgring and Hockenheim can pay, I think Bernie will still not want to set a precedent and just drop the GP for now, for this season at least. He wants to mantain appearances and won't give them any considerable discount, much less pay for the event.

The championship is getting VERY light on European races though, which means that sooner or later Bernie, even being Bernie, can't always win and will have to concede. I can't imagine Mercedes or a Vettel-led Red Bull being very happy at the lack of a German GP.


More likely the race will be allowed to drop and everyone will adopt the party line of pretending that all is rosy in the F1 garden and its new markets, despite evidence of considerable privately-held concern within the paddock about the demise of the European aspect of the calendar.

#19 BRG

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:59

We lost the French GP, the spiritual home of the sport, so I doubt if the German GP is sacrosanct either. Bernie will not hesitate to drop it if the cash isn't forthcoming.

But both countries SHOULD have a GP of course. The sooner that the despotic rule of Bernie/CVC is overthrown, the better. We had the Arab Spring, roll on the revolution.

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#20 Radoye

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:59

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but as far as i know only Hockenheim and Nurburgring hold a FIA Grade 1 license in Germany making them suitable for F1. All other tracks mentioned here are Grade 2 and below.

#21 ArnageWRC

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:01

If the finances aren’t adding up, then don’t pay. F1 isn’t the be all and end all – too many circuits are bending over for Bernie/F1. If they all made a stand and we ended up with hardly any European races, the teams would start demanding for changes.

As for the Nurburgring – I’m far more bothered about the N24 than the German Grand Prix.


#22 jee

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:28

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but as far as i know only Hockenheim and Nurburgring hold a FIA Grade 1 license in Germany making them suitable for F1. All other tracks mentioned here are Grade 2 and below.


Eurospeedway should be capable of Grade 1

#23 Clatter

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 13:12

If the finances aren’t adding up, then don’t pay. F1 isn’t the be all and end all – too many circuits are bending over for Bernie/F1. If they all made a stand and we ended up with hardly any European races, the teams would start demanding for changes.

As for the Nurburgring – I’m far more bothered about the N24 than the German Grand Prix.


The problem here is that they are all individual contracts running for different lengths of time.

#24 maximilian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 13:16

It's hard to find Germans stupid enough to pay Bernie's horrid fees.

#25 Fastcake

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 13:18

If the finances aren’t adding up, then don’t pay. F1 isn’t the be all and end all – too many circuits are bending over for Bernie/F1. If they all made a stand and we ended up with hardly any European races, the teams would start demanding for changes.

As for the Nurburgring – I’m far more bothered about the N24 than the German Grand Prix.


That's pretty much the issue. Bernie charges what he can get, quite naturally, and if the circuits are all willing to pay it then they haven't got much grounds for complaining over the price. Obviously there's plenty of Arabic princes who can throw away 50 million without consequence, but you can only run so many races in the Middle East and if the rest of the world can't meet the prices Bernie would bring them down a little.

#26 Sin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:31

as long as the 2014 Hockenheimring Race is at least save... I'm planning already to drive there... and I don't know which circuits have which license Grade I can't find anything online to that... but... you can always change a track to achieve a higher license

I for one know that in the past the Lausitzring and politicians of that area have shown intrest in hosting an F1 Race....

that my favorite is Sachsenring is because it is rather easy to get to :)....

Edited by Sin, 28 January 2013 - 14:31.


#27 Risil

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:33

I'm gonna go unorthodox and say the Norisring.

I reckon an F1 race on that track would be absolutely mental......... The F1 equivalent of Nascar at Bristol.


I like the Norisring suggestion, but only because it would amuse me. They'd never do it.


40 seconds lap times, Marussias caught for lapping after 2 laps :lol:


+3 :up:

#28 Sin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:38

if we want to go extreme, why then not the AVUS Circuit :p.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVUS
but well that isn't used for races anymore and Lausitzring is the replacement for it

#29 teejay

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:41

Mercedes supplying engines and a lot of dollars to the sport

Vettel reigning wdc

They will work something out.

#30 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:42

Correct me if i'm mistaken, but as far as i know only Hockenheim and Nurburgring hold a FIA Grade 1 license in Germany making them suitable for F1. All other tracks mentioned here are Grade 2 and below.


The terminology grade 1 and 2 are deceptive, as there's little difference in terms of track quality between them (though pit facilities may differ) - the essential difference is that it costs more to apply for grade 1 status, and only brings with it the possibility of having an F1 race, so most tracks (which don't want/can't afford/don't think they would get an F1 race) don't bother applying. Lausitzring would definitely have no problem getting upgraded from grade 2 to grade 1 if there was going to be an F1 race there.

#31 jonpollak

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:44

if we want to go extreme, why then not the AVUS Circuit


Been reading up on history I see...das ist ein gutes Mädchen
Jp

#32 goingthedistance

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 14:53

It's going to be a bummer of a summer for F1 if we lose the German GP. That means there'll be only a couple of races for the entire summer - with a month between Silverstone and Hungary, then another month until Spa. So three races in eleven weeks or something like that.

As much as I like the fly-aways the European season is the heart of F1 to me, and to see it so diminished would be a massive shame.

I hope Bernie is just grandstanding about the deal at this point. The Nurburgring is a wonderful track, such a shame it's a basket case money-wise.

#33 ApexMouse

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 17:43

I wonder if Madeschitz will stump up some cash and get the Osterrieichring in the slot. Close enough to germany, similar vibe. A few million and throw a few grandstands up. :confused:
Hope it is at the ring though. Maybe if bernie and CVC leeches were booted we wouldnt have several bankrupt teams and circuits. I shan't continue.

#34 Atreiu

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 18:13

Maeschitz being a sentimental billionaire? I doubt it. He already throws enough in Red Bull itself.

I think this will be like Spa 2003, gone for a year and then back. If not, then France, just gone. Either seems more likely than last minute funds miraculously appearing, IMO.

That Germany cant secure a GP is apalling.

Edited by Atreiu, 28 January 2013 - 18:19.


#35 ed24f1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 18:20

Due to Vettel's current form I don't think they'll have an issue finding a new circuit...

Have you seen the crowd levels at the recent German GPs? I wouldn't be so sure....

#36 Sin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 18:45

Have you seen the crowd levels at the recent German GPs? I wouldn't be so sure....


well with the location of the Nürburgring in the middle of the Pampa I even need 12 hours per train to get there and I'm from germany (I just need 6 to Budapest)... Hockenheim is slightly better with Mannheim close by still rather far away from the really big cities. Also I think there was football EM around that time, which might have pulled more people with F1 being so god damn expensive. Lausitzring being close to Berlin maybe would pull in more people watching....

Edited by Sin, 28 January 2013 - 19:05.


#37 apoka

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 19:04

That Germany cant secure a GP is apalling.

It's more a problem of previous mis-management of the circuit und unwillingness of the state to invest lots of tax money than an encomical problem of Germany.

#38 Physicist

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 19:05

Sachsenring or Oschersleben?

#39 sniper80

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 20:09

The Ringpark was a complete joke, I went there in the hope to find great things, but nothing, even the new museum s*cked. They should have left everything like it was.

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#40 Sakae

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 21:12

if we want to go extreme, why then not the AVUS Circuit :p.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVUS
but well that isn't used for races anymore and Lausitzring is the replacement for it

It would be the fastest, and most dangerous track of them all. Renault powered cars would be slated for a quite a bad spanking by current Mercedes engines. FiA would never endorse it without mods.

#41 Doughnut King

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 21:25

If Nurburgring isn't secured, I doubt they'll be a replacement.

Is there ever any good news in motorracing lately?

#42 Ali_G

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:37

Time to bring the German GP back to Avus.

#43 PayasYouRace

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:02

In terms of other circuits I can only imagine Lausitzting being suitable for F1. I think Sachsenring is too small. Oschersleben might be OK but it isn't a very exciting looking track.

#44 seahawk

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:13

That Germany cant secure a GP is apalling.


It is not apalling, it is long overdue. Wasting tax payers money on such events has to stop. Either those events can make money and pay for themselves or let them die. Bernie can charge more and more because more and more countries are paying those events. The circle would never end.


#45 Risil

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:38

It is not apalling, it is long overdue. Wasting tax payers money on such events has to stop. Either those events can make money and pay for themselves or let them die. Bernie can charge more and more because more and more countries are paying those events. The circle would never end.


And you don't think it's appalling that Grand Prix racing is being run in this way?

#46 darkkis

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:41

It is not apalling, it is long overdue. Wasting tax payers money on such events has to stop. Either those events can make money and pay for themselves or let them die. Bernie can charge more and more because more and more countries are paying those events. The circle would never end.

I think that would mean death of all European GPs. :stoned: Soon it is F1 Asian Series.

#47 seahawk

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:46

And you don't think it's appalling that Grand Prix racing is being run in this way?

Yes, but it is time organziers do no longer throw more and more taxmoney down Bernie´s throat.

I think that would mean death of all European GPs. :stoned: Soon it is F1 Asian Series.


I sure would hope so. And I would hope that it would create a huge downfall in public interest in Europe and the US, so much that this model might no longer is viable and Bernie (or whoever will be in charge) needs to chance his course.

#48 Bleu

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 13:24

F1 race at Norisring would be 133 laps. Mental.

#49 Risil

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 13:27

F1 race at Norisring would be 133 laps. Mental.


Why? Would it break the TV graphic at the top of the screen?

#50 Sin

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 17:43

I like the suggestion by Lotus

‏@Lotus_F1Team

You know which #F1 weekend we’re most looking forward to in 2013… pic.twitter.com/oJ7HM1XZ

Posted Image


XD... gotta love their tweets

Edited by Sin, 29 January 2013 - 17:45.