178 replies to this topic

[peroa]

James Allen ‏@Jamesallenonf1
#f1 There were some rumours around this morning that McLaren had bought Cosworth. These have been denied by McLaren sources.

[ApexMouse]

Holy Crap!

That would be... news!

[peroa]

Well, we speculated here some time ago that it would be a logical step to F1 independence and probably not bad for the road car business.

[Ali_G]

This wouldn't suprise me in the least.

How long is McLaren's current engine deal with Mercedes ?

[jrg19]

End of this season?

[ImAnEngineer]

This wouldn't suprise me in the least.

How long is McLaren's current engine deal with Mercedes ?

end of 2014

[Clatter]

This wouldn't suprise me in the least.

How long is McLaren's current engine deal with Mercedes ?

Me neither. If Mac really are to go their own engine route then purchasing Cosworth is a very obvious way to go rather than trying to start from scratch.

[Kingshark]

James Allen is not unknown (see reply 82) to make up fantasy stories.

Edited by Kingshark, 07 February 2013 - 18:48.

[BoschKurve]

I've got my doubts about this being valid. Cosworth isn't what it was, and do they even have a 2014 unit under development? I thought it was more one of those, "We'd love to do it if it makes sense financially" deals.

It might make sense if it had something to do with their road car division.

Of course the other fun discussion I was kicking around with a few people, was what if McLaren decided to pull out of F1 altogether at the end of the season?

[Disgrace]

Makes sense, McLaren have been on the path to in-house engines for a long time.

[Anonymous]

end of 2014

2015

Of course the other fun discussion I was kicking around with a few people, was what if McLaren decided to pull out of F1 altogether at the end of the season?

Edited by Anonymous, 07 February 2013 - 18:56.

[BiH]

Would be crazy if true, but highly suspect its just fake rumor.

Doubt McLaren is crazy enough to split from Mercedes engines.....


Cosworth comes back 2010 supplying 4 teams engines, 3 years later they are left with one engine deal.

Edited by BiH, 07 February 2013 - 18:57.

[Disgrace]

Of course, Cosworth didn't have the same budget as it's rivals. With a bit of McLaren investment, however...

[SR388]

That would be huge.

[Red17]

If this is a done deal I can see why Mclaren would want to cool it off, probably too early to (publicly) ditch Mercedes, units might start to play funny.

And of course this would be great news for Cosworth.

[SR388]

If this is a done deal I can see why Mclaren would want to cool it off, probably too early to (publicly) ditch Mercedes, units might start to play funny.

And of course this would be great news for Cosworth.

You think, more bad fuel pumps?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Are McLaren even Ferrari-sized yet? I'd rather pay for someone else's engine than do my own. A Merc or a Renault has a little bit of factory subsidy in it. Doing it yourself is 100% cost and I don't see McLaren having their own engine driving car sales any more than what they currently have.

[shonguiz]

I highly doubt such a thing, one if they buy it now, they would be way behind the scheduel to make the engine ready for 2014 and even if they plan to use it for 2015, then they would not benefit from the test free developement phase which will last one year and allow them to correct developement miscalculations, second such an operation will require enourmous cash and will strain highly their financial situation, for an independant team, be it McLaren, that's a very risky move.

[DrF]

Rumour has Oy Honda are coming back as engine supplier for Macca

[ApexMouse]

If they wanted an engine dept for their roadcars, wouldnt someone like Zytek/Judd be a cheaper option? Depends on IP and architecture I suppose.

[JRizzle86]

This wouldn't suprise me in the least.

How long is McLaren's current engine deal with Mercedes ?

Till 2015 i think.

[maverick69]

McLaren buy Cosworth....... Honda provide the money for the development of an F1 powertrain and get to stick their badge on it.

Kinda sounds familiar.........

[muramasa]

with road car they started selling, do it everything in-house is what they shud dream of. All depends on whether or not they can secure enough fund and engineers and couple of teams to supply engines to.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I really can't see Honda badging an F1 engine. That's not the point of them doing F1.

[maverick69]

I really can't see Honda badging an F1 engine. That's not the point of them doing F1.

They've done it in Indycar for a while now....... and after their last experience in F1, perhaps they want to do something that is slightly less risky when it comes to raiding the coffers.......

But I digress.

Edited by maverick69, 07 February 2013 - 19:40.

[Cool Beans]

Of course the other fun discussion I was kicking around with a few people, was what if McLaren decided to pull out of F1 altogether at the end of the season?

This makes sense. Mclaren was founded as a seat for Lewis and he's gone now. Why bother anymore?

[Gilles4Ever]

Where would this leave their deal with Mercedes wrt access to the technology, mappings, cooling requirements and methodologies with the engine's they are putting in their cars

[10e10]

McLaren buy Cosworth....... Honda provide the money for the development of an F1 powertrain and get to stick their badge on it.

Kinda sounds familiar.........

Mercedes and Ilmor?

[schumimercamg]

This would fit in very nicely with their accelerated road car programme.

[maverick69]

Mercedes and Ilmor?

Yep.

And Ford and Cosworth...... and TAG and Porsche........ and sort of Renault and Mecachrome etc......

[MirNyet]

Where would this leave their deal with Mercedes wrt access to the technology, mappings, cooling requirements and methodologies with the engine's they are putting in their cars

They don't have access to the internals of the engines anyway, they are sealed when they come into the garage, sealed when they come out, and the engine has its own control software which they do not get to see. Things like Engine Maps are done by Mercedes with input from McLaren, but it would not be McLaren staff doing the actual work etc...

A deal like this makes a lot of sense in the longer term - the problems with Mercedes would have shaken McLaren who pride themselves on control and perfection - being in a situation where they are not a factory team, do not have engine stablity and are at the whim of another team in terms of what they get is not very McLaren. It also makes a huge amount of sense with regard to their road car division even if they never make an f1 engine.

[Red17]

You think, more bad fuel pumps?

We should not forget there was a point where it seemed Mercedes was ready to assimilate Mclaren and all the sudden both parties drifted away.

[TheNewStig]

McLaren buy Cosworth....... Honda provide the money for the development of an F1 powertrain and get to stick their badge on it.

Kinda sounds familiar.........

Maybe Honda already is involved?

[JRizzle86]

Where would this leave their deal with Mercedes wrt access to the technology, mappings, cooling requirements and methodologies with the engine's they are putting in their cars

No different than when any other team changes engine supplier. Mercedes can't hold a patent to cooling requirements and the Mercedes engines are essentially a sealed unit dealt with by Mercedes engine personnel within the team anyway.

Edited by JRizzle86, 07 February 2013 - 19:59.

[maverick69]

Maybe Honda already is involved?

Could well be.

It's a rumor that's been hanging around for a while now.

[Fatgadget]

What's missing is how much changed hands in this transaction or did I miss something?

[Charles E Taylor]

Cosworth



Please tell us, what is there left to buy?




Charlie

[muramasa]

if Honda were to buy or invest in cosworth, maybe it'd be for facility, in order to use it as maintenance base, i imagine. To operate from tochigi dont make logistics sense, they'd surely need a european base, even just as an engine supplier. all speculation anyway..

[JRizzle86]

Cosworth



Please tell us, what is there left to buy?




Charlie

An engine supplier with the basic essentials to develop both racing and road car engines.

[BoschKurve]

This makes sense. Mclaren was founded as a seat for Lewis and he's gone now. Why bother anymore?

I don't recall mentioning anything about Lewis.

Think about it, what does F1 even offer McLaren anymore? They are getting into the building and selling of road cars now. There's more to be gained elsewhere instead of a borderline spec series.

[10e10]

if Honda were to buy or invest in cosworth, maybe it'd be for facility, in order to use it as maintenance base, i imagine. To operate from tochigi dont make logistics sense, they'd surely need a european base, even just as an engine supplier. all speculation anyway..

Maybe that's the idea. But we don't know if the rumors might be true, and if some manufacturer is helping McLaren in this deal.

[JRizzle86]

I don't recall mentioning anything about Lewis.

Think about it, what does F1 even offer McLaren anymore? They are getting into the building and selling of road cars now. There's more to be gained elsewhere instead of a borderline spec series.

What does F1 offer Ferrari? There is your answer.

[Fatgadget]

An engine supplier with the basic essentials to develop both racing and road car engines.

We are now in 2013 not 1967!

[BoschKurve]

What does F1 offer Ferrari? There is your answer.

Yes, and Montezuma has been bitching about the state of F1.

The thing that would be more relevant for both is to get into LMP for 2014 or 2015. Both companies are about moving forward technologically, and F1 hasn't been to keen on doing that anymore.

[Rob]

Cosworth don't just do engines now, they do all sorts of other engineering stuff.

[onewingedangel]

Cosworth is for sale - and some prospective buyers may only be interested in the defence side of the business. So if the motorsport side of the business is available at a good price it would be a good investment for the future, for both motorsport and road car applications. But even if such a sale went through, it doesn't mean McLaren would necessarily build their own F1 engine - especially in the short term.

[maverick69]

Cosworth don't just do engines now, they do all sorts of other engineering stuff.

Yep. And we all know how Ron loves his "Applied Technologies"!

[JRizzle86]

We are now in 2013 not 1967!

I'm sorry what is your point. They are a road and racing engine supplier. Yes their last V10 and V8 were not the best of the field but they were lacking funding and top teams as partners. The last F1 championship won by a Ford Cosworth engine was 94, so 1967 is a bit far off in terms of their successful period. Ford proved with investment and the correct direction they were more than capable of challenging at the front in F1. Even though they are not in single seaters at the moment they also have a strong recent history with Indycar. If McLaren were to buy into an engine operation wouldn't it make sense one with the basic operating tech and experience and invest and develop from there. A must better proposal than starting an engine operation from scratch. Why do you think Ricardo is currently working with McLaren for their road car engine.

Edited by JRizzle86, 07 February 2013 - 20:39.

[Fatgadget]

Todays 'Cosworth' no longer has the gravitas of the one of yesteryear.IMO.It's now just a nostalgic name...Best kept there....In the past.

[JRizzle86]

Yes, and Montezuma has been bitching about the state of F1.

The thing that would be more relevant for both is to get into LMP for 2014 or 2015. Both companies are about moving forward technologically, and F1 hasn't been to keen on doing that anymore.

Montezemolo. If you have these feeling towards F1 I think you are in the wrong forum or at least the wrong thread.