42 replies to this topic

[Yhamm]

after 20 years on the TF1 Channel (the first private channel in France), they lost the rights to broadcast the Formula 1
only the race was on TF1, Eurosport (owned by TF1, a pay-tv channel) was broadcasting practices & qualif

starting this year and for the next 3 years; everything will be on Canal+, a pay-TV channel (35€/month)
they will pay 29 millions € / year, TF1 was paying 31 millions previously

Edited by Yhamm, 14 February 2013 - 10:07.

[Nonesuch]

Wasn't Canal+ involved in the early 2000s Ecclestone-TV-experiment? I recall seeing some Canal+ commercials with F1 cars in them, though perhaps that was only in the Benelux.

Anyway, an interesting move. I wonder which European countries now have F1 on (extra) pay TV? The United Kingdom, the Netherlands, the French Republic are the three most recent ones, but I suppose there are more out there.

Do any Brits have information on how viewing figures changed in 2012?

[Massa]

It's a good news for us ( french ). Ok it's a pay tv channel but TF1 coverage was a big shame. No podium, a lot of commercial during the race, it was a big shame.

[Massa]

Wasn't Canal+ involved in the early 2000s Ecclestone-TV-experiment? I recall seeing some Canal+ commercials with F1 cars in them, though perhaps that was only in the Benelux.

Canal + was a big sponsor of Prost GP

[babbel]

Ah join the club! Though it's "only" 15 euro's a month here in The Netherlands.

At some point in the future, F1 moving to PPV in alot of European countries will come and bite them because there will be very little fans left.

[Ravenak]

[PeterB773]

It's not good is it. I live in the UK and I watch the non BBC races on RTL via Freesat. I refuse to pay so much to Sky for just F1 as I have no interest in anything else they broadcast.

Slippery slope downhill.

[The Kanisteri]

F1 in Finland being on pay channel few years now, free channel shows some highlight on midnight and might show even whole race days later.

[noikeee]

Anyway, an interesting move. I wonder which European countries now have F1 on (extra) pay TV? The United Kingdom, the Netherlands, the French Republic are the three most recent ones, but I suppose there are more out there.

We were one of the first here in Portugal.

I hope Bernie enjoys the continued long-term destroying of the fanbase for a quick buck. Maybe he's trying to kill the fans in Europe in order to justify moving even more races to Asia.

[Sin]

RTL in germany shows all races and qualifying and is free tv... free practice is on ntv which is free too and part of RTL (and F1 is the only good thing about RTL)

besides of that we have Sky as well, but there are not many people in germany who own Sky... after all we already have to pay 17 Euro per month for normal tv (or rather ARD, ZDF, WDR, MDR, etc.), those 17 euro need to be paid even if you do not have a tv... and own a pc, after all you could be using what ARD, ZDF, WDR, ... offer on the internet

[steferrari]

Anyway, an interesting move. I wonder which European countries now have F1 on (extra) pay TV? The United Kingdom, the Netherlands, the French Republic are the three most recent ones, but I suppose there are more out there.

Italy will also move to Sky Sport this year, after many seasons with RAI.
RAI should be able to show 9 races live though... i think it's the same situation between Sky and BBC in UK.

[Taxi]

Welcome to Portugal: You have 4 free channels. Then you have to pay for cable tv for a decent pack 20-30 euro. And then if you are Formula 1 fan you pay a premium channel [sport tv] more 26 euros. That must be a record.

Long live the internet.

[PARAZAR]

Well we don't even know if they'll be showing F1 this year here. I was paying cable tv plus 20 euro for two channels to watch F1. Now they've raised the price to 50 for 5 channels which I don't watch and don't need but this is the package they offer. Yet noone can tell me whether they'll be showing F1 or not. It was the same situation last year, they even missed the first race.

[JRizzle86]

First half the races go on pay to view, then they all do.

The viewership falls and then they realise.

[Yhamm]

Wasn't Canal+ involved in the early 2000s Ecclestone-TV-experiment? I recall seeing some Canal+ commercials with F1 cars in them, though perhaps that was only in the Benelux.

There was Kiosque for few years, a paytv on satellite/cable I think

[Nonesuch]

Thanks for the responses, combined with this overview, that seems to give us the following European countries where F1 is fully, or at least for a significant part, pay-to-view only:

• Netherlands
• United Kingdom
• France
• Finland
• Portugal
• Italy
• Greece (partly)
• Lithuania (partly)
• Bulgaria
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Latvia
• Montenegro
• Romania
• Serbia
• Sweden
• Turkey

Edited by Nonesuch, 14 February 2013 - 13:46.

[Fabien Pousset]

Please note that it has NOT been announced yet whether C+ will broadcast F1 on its main PPV channel or on its free-to-air channel (Direct 8).

[Yhamm]

Please note that it has NOT been announced yet whether C+ will broadcast F1 on its main PPV channel or on its free-to-air channel (Direct 8).

they did.
https://twitter.com/...010206890627072

Très heureux de pouvoir proposer la F1 en exclu a nos abonnes des la mi mars. Essais libres, qualifs, Grand Prix, émissions vous aurez tout!

"very happy to give F1 in exclusivity to our subscribers starting march. Practices, qualifications, GP, TV magazine (is that correct?), you will have everything"

Edited by Yhamm, 14 February 2013 - 14:15.

[Fabien Pousset]

My bad.

[Myrvold]

Thanks for the responses, combined with this overview, that seems to give us the following European countries where F1 is fully, or at least for a significant part, pay-to-view only:

• Netherlands
• United Kingdom
• France
• Finland
• Portugal
• Italy
• Greece (partly)
• Lithuania (partly)
• Bulgaria
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Latvia
• Montenegro
• Romania
• Serbia
• Sweden
• Turkey

And Norway.

[showtime]

It's only a question of time that Spain follows that route too.

[britishtrident]

Join the club ............. I feel for French F1 fans
The more pay TV the lower the standards, free to air sport is now a lost cause, in the UK apart a few very high quality dramas on the BBC channels and a very few on ITV the only thing worth watching is is a few of the better US crime series on Channel 5.

Murdoch is bad news.

[ed24f1]

It's a good news for us ( french ). Ok it's a pay tv channel but TF1 coverage was a big shame. No podium, a lot of commercial during the race, it was a big shame.

I agree, even though i won't buy Canal as I'll only be in France until end of June, I'll be happier watching a Sky UK stream with better commentators and no ad breaks than what I saw of TF1 last year.

[BullHead]

First half the races go on pay to view, then they all do.

The viewership falls and then they realise.

And then what?

It's not good, but these people are not stupid, they must have done the forecast, the maths etc. It must be making sense at the moment or else they wouldn't be doing it.
The sports' sponsors are the ones who can ultimately apply the pressure when the viewership goes down. They've been somewhat quiet about so far...

[Amphicar]

Wasn't Canal+ involved in the early 2000s Ecclestone-TV-experiment? I recall seeing some Canal+ commercials with F1 cars in them, though perhaps that was only in the Benelux.

Anyway, an interesting move. I wonder which European countries now have F1 on (extra) pay TV? The United Kingdom, the Netherlands, the French Republic are the three most recent ones, but I suppose there are more out there.

Do any Brits have information on how viewing figures changed in 2012?

There was an interesting piece on f1fanatic.co.uk on the impact of the UK Sky deal on TV viewership. Looking at the first 11 races of 2012, it concluded that viewing figures were significantly down on 2011. Adding together the average live viewership for the first 11 races in 2011 showed they were watched by 45.7m people, an average of 4.15m per race. Over the same races in 2012 the corresponding totals were 24.15m viewers, averaging 2.2m per race. For the five races which were shown live on both the BBC and Sky, the average was 3.8m – much closer to 2011, but still a fall of 9.5%.

If the Sky/BBC share arrangement continues to its current end date of 2018 and future years follow much the same pattern, I don't think Bernie, the teams or their sponsors will be too worried. A less than 10% fall in viewership for the races shown on both channels is small beer and even the 47% fall for the Sky only races is much lower than some doom-mongers were predicting when the deal was first announced. However, if the BBC were to give up its half share of live races some sponsors might start complaining - especially the ones with products aimed at the domestic consumer.

[trogggy]

There was an interesting piece on f1fanatic.co.uk on the impact of the UK Sky deal on TV viewership. Looking at the first 11 races of 2012, it concluded that viewing figures were significantly down on 2011. Adding together the average live viewership for the first 11 races in 2011 showed they were watched by 45.7m people, an average of 4.15m per race. Over the same races in 2012 the corresponding totals were 24.15m viewers, averaging 2.2m per race. For the five races which were shown live on both the BBC and Sky, the average was 3.8m – much closer to 2011, but still a fall of 9.5%.

If the Sky/BBC share arrangement continues to its current end date of 2018 and future years follow much the same pattern, I don't think Bernie, the teams or their sponsors will be too worried. A less than 10% fall in viewership for the races shown on both channels is small beer and even the 47% fall for the Sky only races is much lower than some doom-mongers were predicting when the deal was first announced. However, if the BBC were to give up its half share of live races some sponsors might start complaining - especially the ones with products aimed at the domestic consumer.

I'm not sure where the problem is, but that doesn't add up...

Average of 1st 11 races (2012) = 2.2million viewers
Average of 1st 5 shown on both = 3.8 million (from your post)

If the above is correct then the average of the 6 out of 11 shown on Sky only would be 0.86 million (860,000).
That's an 80% drop if your figures are correct - unless I've misunderstood completely which isn't impossible.

[Sin]

to add german numbers

(the left numbers are the number of people watching in million... like Brazil had about 10,62 million on RTL and 0,6 million on Sky)

Edited by Sin, 14 February 2013 - 22:00.

[D.M.N.]

You mean million?

[BigCHrome]

In America it's on cable AND there are commercials every 10 minutes.

TBH, I don't see what all the commotion is about, there's basically no point in owning a TV if you're not going to pay for cable as well.

Edited by BigCHrome, 14 February 2013 - 21:11.

[babbel]

In America it's on cable AND there are commercials every 10 minutes.

TBH, I don't see what all the commotion is about, there's basically no point in owning a TV if you're not going to pay for cable as well.

Paying for cable is not the problem. It's paying 15 euro's a month extra on top of cable for just 4 extra channels with crap I don't want to watch

[Mendel]

Yeah it´s on pay tv in Finland but honestly I prefer it that way because there are now no commercials during the race.
There is a commercial break between a pre-race show and the race but no breaks during the race.

Also the F1 is on a pay channel that is a part of a channel package that I would need to have anyways for other reasons, mainly for one of their kids channels that the kids love to watch.

Only real problem is that the cable operator Anvia does not broadcast the high definition version of races, only standard def because they haven´t managed to reach an agreement with the channel mtv3 max hd.

[PARAZAR]

Paying for cable is not the problem. It's paying 15 euro's a month extra on top of cable for just 4 extra channels with crap I don't want to watch

How about paying 50 extra euros a month for 5 channels for crap you don't want to watch. Having said that I really should stop giving them so much money.

[Sin]

You mean million?;)

yeah.... sorry for some reason I always was thinking the english word for million was billion.... it is complicated x.x

but yes if it were that way in germany.... I next to the 26 euro I'm already paying (9 for cable tv + 17 per month for GEZ http://en.wikipedia....inzugszentrale) would need to order sky, but I can't just only order the sport channel I would need to order 50 channels I dont need next to that.... in the end that package would cost another 50 euro ... meaning I would be paying 76 euro per month for tv when the only thing I watch is F1...

so no wonder barely anyone in germany (at least around my age) owns Sky

Edited by Sin, 14 February 2013 - 22:03.

[William Hunt]

It's a shame, luckily in Belgium it's still free to watch the F1 races
35 Euro a month is extremely expensive though.

Edited by William Hunt, 15 February 2013 - 01:16.

[done]

will it broadcast the races on canal+ on Hotbird 13E ? and will it have a second audio channel from bbc commentators ?
also the new sky sport f1 italia which will be launched on 8 march , will it have an english commentary

[Dolph]

It's a good news for us ( french ). Ok it's a pay tv channel but TF1 coverage was a big shame. No podium, a lot of commercial during the race, it was a big shame.

No podium?

[Yhamm]

No podium?

there was podium, no itw though

[SenhorBeef]

Welcome to Portugal: You have 4 free channels. Then you have to pay for cable tv for a decent pack 20-30 euro. And then if you are Formula 1 fan you pay a premium channel [sport tv] more 26 euros. That must be a record.

Long live the internet.

and to make it even worse, after paying that, we still get adverts during the race. I cancelled sport tv and just watch online these days.

[zepunishment]

Seems a good way to kill off sponsorship revenues - limiting the audience of your sport.

[Ghostrider]

Ah join the club! Though it's "only" 15 euro's a month here in The Netherlands.

At some point in the future, F1 moving to PPV in alot of European countries will come and bite them because there will be very little fans left.

Definitely that is the case. Young people growing up today in households without F1 will not get attracted to the sport the way that it was done in 80-90ties

[Ali_G]

Thanks for the responses, combined with this overview, that seems to give us the following European countries where F1 is fully, or at least for a significant part, pay-to-view only:

• Netherlands
• United Kingdom
• France
• Finland
• Portugal
• Italy
• Greece (partly)
• Lithuania (partly)
• Bulgaria
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Latvia
• Montenegro
• Romania
• Serbia
• Sweden
• Turkey

You can also add Ireland to the list.

[Morbus]

We were one of the first here in Portugal.

I hope Bernie enjoys the continued long-term destroying of the fanbase for a quick buck. Maybe he's trying to kill the fans in Europe in order to justify moving even more races to Asia.

Portuguese fan here, started watching when it was broadcast on free television, never watched it on Sport TV or whatever because from what I've seen it's bloody aweful, the commentators are not on the circuit, they know less than I do, seriously it'd be better if they just showed the FOM feed and be done with it. And I daren't think of the commercials.

So I watch it on BBC, a couple of hours after the race, through torrent or something like that. I wouldn't mind paying a bit to watch F1, honestly, but Sport TV's broadcast is just worse than not watching F1 at all.

[noikeee]

Portuguese fan here, started watching when it was broadcast on free television, never watched it on Sport TV or whatever because from what I've seen it's bloody aweful, the commentators are not on the circuit, they know less than I do, seriously it'd be better if they just showed the FOM feed and be done with it. And I daren't think of the commercials.

So I watch it on BBC, a couple of hours after the race, through torrent or something like that. I wouldn't mind paying a bit to watch F1, honestly, but Sport TV's broadcast is just worse than not watching F1 at all.

That's too harsh, the coverage isn't up to BBC/SKY-standard and yes the commentators aren't on the track and one of them is too old for the job now, but they ARE knowledgeable, and the coverage is far better than from the free-to-air days. I think you forget how bad the commentators were back then. These days we get long pre-race and post-race shows too which didn't happen then.

Still not at all worth the money if you only want to watch F1, I only have it at my parents house because my dad watches football all week (and I love football too).