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Elfin type 600, 600 B, C, D & E


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#151 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:13

SJL8080_1.jpg



Edited for image restoration......

Edited by SJ Lambert, 17 April 2018 - 00:04.


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#152 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:15

Laurie Bennett in the Ex Vern Hamilton 600B at the same meeting

SJL8043_1.jpg



Edited for image restoration......

Edited by SJ Lambert, 17 April 2018 - 00:06.


#153 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:16

Laurie and Jamie Larner sorting out a dickie fuel pump.

SJL8190_1.jpg

Edited to restore image....

Edited by SJ Lambert, 26 April 2018 - 11:15.


#154 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:18

Peter gives the tyres a muck scrape

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Edited by SJ Lambert, 26 April 2018 - 11:16.


#155 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:19

SJL8075_1.jpg


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Edited by SJ Lambert, 26 April 2018 - 11:17.


#156 SJ Lambert

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 22:52

Sneaking this one in cause I can!

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Edited by SJ Lambert, 26 April 2018 - 11:18.


#157 SJ Lambert

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:10

Paul Hamilton's 6801

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Edited to restore image....

Edited by SJ Lambert, 26 April 2018 - 11:18.


#158 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 23:45

That car has had such a long and varied career...

It's now over 49 years - and there is proof somewhere with a photo of James Lambert in his mother's arms next to the car - since it's first race meeting on March 24, 1968. Despite teething problems, Garrie qualified fourth and finished third in the wonderful Lucas-Davison series for small-bore open wheelers. Oddly enough it was described as his 'space-frame 2B', implying that it was a development of the ever-developing Elfin Mono.

From there it returned to Adelaide to be prepared for a trip to the Far East, arranged as a result of Garrie's friendship with Tony Maw, who worked in those parts while racing his Elfin Mono. Among things done was the installation of a 1600cc Cosworth twin cam engine in place of the 1500 engine used in Australia, and it was tested at Mallala.

It ran at the Selangor GP on April 7 but broke its Mk 5 Hewland. The following week it won the Singapore Grand Prix and it was then sold to P H Wong.

Soon onsold to Hengke Iriawan from Indonesia, it was used by him for about a year and in it he won the '68 Malaysian GP and came second at Macao. In between it spent a little time back at the Elfin works for repairs after a crash.

Tony Maw bought it in 1969 and took it to yet another win at the Malaysian GP, and was second in that race in 1970. Between 1969 and 1972, when Tony returned to Australia to live, he sent the car to Adelaide a couple of times and competed in it at AIR and Calder while it was here.

It was at this time that Garrie's personal decision to not run VW-based transmissions behind Twin-Cams was bestowed on this car as well.

Once again, the car came to Australia when Tony returned and at the '72 Hume Weir Boxing Day meeting Paul Hamilton had a good look at the car, he being there competing with his Proton, an Erol Richardson-built ANF2 car.

Early in 1973 Paul crashed the Proton badly at the Warwick Farm short circuit and decided to buy the 600 from Tony.

He raced it regularly until it was an old car in the field, but always running reasonably competitively. With a good Hart Twin-Cam fitted, and later with a BDA, he kept running it up until 1980.

Among the car's achievements was to dominate the Mattara Hillclimb for years and to take outright hillclimb records at Mount Panorama, Huntley, Amaroo Park as well as Newcastle - while still essentially set up as a circuit racing car.

For five years it sat unused, with the Twin-Cam back in place, while Paul campaigned his March, then it returned to the circuits in Historic Racing.

A very full career, I wonder whether any of the subsequent run of the very successful Elfin 600s has done as much?

Laurie Bennett's, perhaps?



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 11 May 2017 - 23:47.


#159 SJ Lambert

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:33

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the ex Jim McGuire (originally Alfa powered) 600B #6805? Alan Simpson owned it from 1973-88 and would love to know what's become of it.  He sold it to David &/or John Medley in 1988 - it may still be a Medley mobile as Brian Lear's Register showed as much a couple of years ago.....



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#160 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 07:59

That would be David Medley's car...

Fitted with a Corolla last I saw it.

#161 SJ Lambert

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 10:13

Looks like I oughta read my Elfin newsletters more closely - Peter Whelan's the custodian of 6805 as of late 2016 by the looks

 

 

http://www.elfinheri...er_issue143.pdf



#162 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 14:00

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the ex Jim McGuire (originally Alfa powered) 600B #6805? Alan Simpson owned it from 1973-88 and would love to know what's become of it. He sold it to David &/or John Medley in 1988 - it may still be a Medley mobile as Brian Lear's Register showed as much a couple of years ago.....

Dave Medley restored 6805 to its original Alfa engined form and ran it periodically with Ross Hodgson at the wheel. Ross drove it very well but it was not quite up to the pace of the best Lotus twin cam powered 600s. Peter Whelan bought the car late last year and has been developing a demon Alfa engine for it so it will be interesting to see where it runs in future.

Ray, this is not the car which Gronkey drove many years ago with a Corolla engine.

As a further update on 600 whereabouts I can report that 6802 is about ready to go after completion of an extensive restoration by Michael Vigneron. It is now owned by Brendon Samuels son of Wakefield Park founder Paul Samuels and has an 1800cc twin cam as used by Garrie in Gold Star races in 1968/69.

#163 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 14:34

Thanks for the correction, Streak...

The main point was I knew that it wasn't John who had it, he having the older model Elfin.

#164 Pat Clarke

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 21:12

Ray,

You really shouldn't refer to people by nicknames.

 

Pat



#165 SJ Lambert

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:24

Does anyone know what the rotors came off that went into the F2 Type 600? If fronts were 10 5/8" diameter & rears were 10 1/2 then that rules out Cortina...



#166 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 17:14

Have a look at Hillman Super Minx/Humber Vogue...

#167 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 00:49

Does anyone know what the rotors came off that went into the F2 Type 600? If fronts were 10 5/8" diameter & rears were 10 1/2 then that rules out Cortina...

 

James, I spent some time trying to identify the source of the rotors some years ago with only limited success.  Although I was unable to identify any completed production component which Garrie may have used I was able to obtain some unmachined blanks from Disc Brakes Australia (DBA) in Sydney from which Dave Mawer produced a batch of rotors subsequently used in my own car and those owned at the time by Richard Carter (6803) and Dave Medley (6805).  I still have a complete unused set on the shelf from that batch which should, hopefully, cover any future requirement for 6801. 

 

The DBA blanks were listed as part number DBA075R and were used in the production of DBA075 intended for the rear of an S type Jaguar.  My recollection is, however that the machined dimensions of the Jaguar component are unsuitable for a 600.  The diameter dimensions we worked to were 10 1/2" at the front and 10 3/8" at rear as per the original components on 6801 and are a little different to what you mention. The spec listed in the Blanden/Catford Elfin book is different again at 10 5/8" front and 10 3/4" rear!!

 

I hope this helps but I should mention that, while DBA were of great assistance to us, there was an element of luck involved as I happened to call on them at a time when they had a batch of unused blanks in stock awaiting machining.  That was all some 10 years or more ago and, as I imagine that they would not be selling a great number of S type Jag rotors these days, you would need to call them at the right time!!  The problem is not simply getting rotors of the correct diameter,  its the combination of diameter and offset.



#168 SJ Lambert

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:58

Thanks Paul, Dale Koennecke recalls having to machine "blanks" extensively, but not what their source was. I'll pass the above on. 

 

Cheers SJ



#169 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:56

I would not be surprised if Garrie had them cast himself...

You can get anything made in Adelaide.

#170 SJ Lambert

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:25

I separated this pic because I'd like to make a few (I think) relevant comments:0213frph600frsusp.jpgGarrie's 'personal cars' had a lot of bolts drilled for lightness, this can be seen here in the bolts retaining the top wishbone. He used an aluminium replacement hub similar to the Spitfire iron hubs, these were usually drilled to the 4.0" PCD, the discs were machined around the outer perimeter for lightness, while the Herald upright can clearly be seen to have a bracing gusset across the top bend to prevent flexing or failure.Of course, the front uprights were one of the things changed during the life of the 600, at some point (600C?) they went over to the cast magnesium 'live axle' style of upright as was being used on other cars built during that period.The regular car jack in use here contrasts with the 'quick lift' jack used in the photo of the rear end above...

Ron confirms that Garrie had rotor blanks cast to their design after Cliff's search for an existing rotor to suit came up empty. The circumferential groove was Ron's touch to "add a little more lightness".

These days Laurie Bennett uses "Great Wall" (Chinese 4WD) rotors through Better Brakes. 10.5 inch diameter and the offset is short by 1mm. You may have to use a spacer. Laurie's hubs are now made 1mm thicker. He commented favourably that they are cheap and readily available.

GREAT WALL RDA7332 Type S Diameter 266 Height 27 Thickness 10 (OK by LCB) Min thickness 8 Purchased through Better Brakes Bayswater Victoria.

I've not talked to Bill Hemming on this topic, but I imagine that he may well have a drawing for both the rough and finished rotor. (Ray, as my Mono uses smaller different spec rotors, I can't tell you what the 600 specs are!!)

If the drawings have dissappeared a tired old period example from both front and rear could be recorded for posterity and future reference!

Edited by SJ Lambert, 18 August 2017 - 09:41.


#171 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 12:39

'Great Wall'?

Isn't that the breed which came in with asbestos in the head gaskets? And as a result of the Department of Infrastructure's neglect in allowing these to come in they are now mounting a campaign to make life difficult for people importing collector cars.

Unfortunately the Ferraris online web page about how it cost a Mustang buyer something like $30,000 has disappeared.

#172 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 20:46

I would not be surprised if Garrie had them cast himself...

You can get anything made in Adelaide.

Could!  All the manufacturers have left now!  



#173 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 20:48

'Great Wall'?

Isn't that the breed which came in with asbestos in the head gaskets? And as a result of the Department of Infrastructure's neglect in allowing these to come in they are now mounting a campaign to make life difficult for people importing collector cars.

Unfortunately the Ferraris online web page about how it cost a Mustang buyer something like $30,000 has disappeared.

Yes. The dumber than dumber brigade has nearly made importing cars a thing of the past. The alleged asbestos in collector cars is about the same amount of asbestos in an Australian car of the same period.

Reputedly less than a Great Wall!



#174 SJ Lambert

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Posted 29 December 2017 - 10:04

6801 heads into it’s teenage years as Team Hamilton wheel her out for another session as me and my brother try to act cool as we look on at the F1 AGP in Adelaide in the eighties!

4383_CC22-_A6_F0-4_B94-9_A5_C-_FF0894393

Edited by SJ Lambert, 22 April 2018 - 10:51.


#175 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:15

6801 heads into it’s teenage years as Team Hamilton wheel her put for another dessin as me and niet brother try to act cool as we look on at the F1 AGP in Adelaide in the eighties!

 

The support event for the AGP in Adelaide  -  November 1989.  It looks like we may have been heading off to scrutineering with my kit bag sitting on the engine cover.  Did you give us a push, James? 

 

There is more change in you and I than there is to the car since then, James, but we are all still recognisable!!



#176 SJ Lambert

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 22:34

Happy New Year Paul, I don’t remember giving a push - I have a vague recollection of Ron & you having a bit of a chat that day - which I presume must have been on the Saturday as it rained cats and dogs on the Sunday ?

Yeah, 6801 looks to be more frozen in time than us - A steady diet of avgas has done her no harm & neither has the vino for the Elfin aficionados !!


C7711_EF5-53_BC-491_F-_A2_E0-_AF0_E252_F


F8_D09763-68_B5-4830-_BC96-_C03861_FD0_A

Edited by SJ Lambert, 22 April 2018 - 10:52.


#177 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:16

Happy New Year Paul, I don’t remember giving a push - I have a vague recollection of Ron & you having a bit of a chat that day - which I presume must have been on the Saturday as it rained cats and dogs on the Sunday ?

Yeah, 6801 looks to be more frozen in time than us - A steady diet of avgas has done her no harm & neither has the vino for the Elfin aficionados !!

 

 

Happy new year to you too, James. 

 

Our chat was probably on Thursday which was when the car was scrutineered and practice was scheduled.  Unfortunately 6801 suffered terminal engine failure warming up prior to the first practice session when some debris inside the distributor lodged where it was not wanted and took a tooth off the jack shaft.  At that point I thought my weekend was over but, even though there was no opportunity to practice, there was a political push to get the car into the race if it could be repaired and we spent most of Friday rebuilding the engine at Peter Nightingale's workshop.  I then started the 5 lap prelim on Saturday from 37th on the grid having not driven around the circuit at all until the warm up lap.  I managed to get up to 8th at the finish which would have given me a more respectable grid position on Sunday had it not rained causing cancellation of our race to allow the F1 cars an additional practice session in the wet. 

 

We did get one lap in the wet simply to get the cars from the dummy grid back to our paddock spot. The conditions were such that I was glad we missed out on the Sunday race and was later fully supportive of Alain Prost when he retired from the GP because of the dangerous conditions.  Visibility was absolutely nil around much of the circuit as the combination of safety fence walls alongside the road and overhanging trees through the parklands caused a concentration of spray the like of which I have not experienced before or since. 

 

Does Ron have any other 600 photos from that meeting?  As I recall we had a pretty good roll up which included Paul Flavel in 6802, Roger Seward in 6804 and Harley Boggis in 6907.  There was a 'sitting' for a group photo shoot but I cannot now find my copy of that and the gathering was something which I would expect may have caught Ron's eye.



#178 SJ Lambert

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:08

Not that I’m aware of Paul, though 6907 definitely got both Ron & Bob Scott’s attention at Philip Island a few years ago when under Herb Neal’s stewardship!

Here’s a wonderful shot by Robert Davies of Garrie at Sandown in 6802.

2710_D678-_C36_B-489_C-9_D8_A-_C0_A91_D0



Edited for image restoration......

Edited by SJ Lambert, 17 April 2018 - 02:53.


#179 SJ Lambert

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:18

"Just about definate .

Interesting that Ivan's car in early 1970 looks like it has been updated to 10.0'' and 14.0''
from the original 8 1/2'' and 12.0'' wheels.

 

 

 

"The first reference I have seen to the use of 10" and 14" wide wheels on a 600 was at the March 1970 Symmons Plains Gold Star race when McCormack and Cooper are said to have used them on 7011 and 7012 respectively in the initial appearances of both cars. I believe that they were then made generally available and many of the earlier cars were up graded.

Its interesting to note, however, that the real width dimensions of the first of these wide wheels were actually a little short of the 10" and 14" widths commonly referred to. I used a set on 6801 in the late 70's when it was BDA powered and the rears were only 13 3/4" in width which I was told was all that could be machined out of the castings Garrie had on hand. Perhaps the ace wheel machinist, Ron Lambert, may be able to throw some light on that. "     

 

 

 

 

Paul - are your Avons sized at 8.2/22.0 x 13 and 13.0/24.5 x13 ?


Edited by SJ Lambert, 01 May 2018 - 01:05.


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#180 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:32

Paul - are your Avons sized at 8.2/22.0 x 13 and 13.0/24.5 x13 ?


That is what I normally use, James, but I currently have a pair of 9.2/22 x 13 on trial at the front. I will have both 8.2 and 9.2 with me at Mallala this coming weekend.

#181 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 02:00

I would not be surprised if Garrie had them cast himself...

You can get anything made in Adelaide.

Could Ray, not anymore. All those business's have gone. As I keep finding.



#182 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 03:03

Just for the record and as a point of interest for Elfin enthusiasts I would like to mention that the type 600 is now a venerable 50 years old having reached that point on the anniversary of 6801's debut at Calder on the weekend of 23/24 March 1968.  The car is still alive and well having entered its second active half century at HSRCA's Wakefield Park meeting on 7/8 April.  It will be returning 'home' to Adelaide this coming weekend (April 21/22) which is as good a place as any to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the car's most significant performance in winning the Singapore GP on around April 13/14 1968 in the hands of Garrie Cooper.



#183 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 03:58

Well done 6801 and Paul!

 

Here's to a lot more laps down the track!!!



#184 SJ Lambert

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:50

How’d the alternate fronts go this weekend Paul?

#185 SJ Lambert

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:30

Picture_110_2.jpg

 

 

 

A stunning Brier Thomas shot of Ivan Tighe - I've cropped it to try to determine tyre designations.



#186 StanBarrett2

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 16:40

I'd like to catalogue the Elfin in post 185 correctly.............which model is it ?           600_

 

macoran


Edited by StanBarrett2, 23 April 2018 - 16:44.


#187 Michael Ferner

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 19:21

Before the real experts chime in, I will say 600B.

#188 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 21:40

A good shot indeed...

You can see there that the car has Garrie's gussetted Alford and Alder uprights with his own cast caliper mount, while it looks like the twin-cam 1600 engine has fuel injection.

#189 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:54

How’d the alternate fronts go this weekend Paul?

 

No detectable difference for me, James, but that may simply be due to old age and a consequent decline in my 'feel' for such small changes.  My use of the 9.2s was driven by availability rather than a desire to experiment and I will be quite happy to revert  to the 8.2s which fit more nicely on the 8.5" wide rims.

 

Where were you and Elmo on the weekend?



#190 SJ Lambert

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Posted 26 April 2018 - 11:09

I pulled the pin upon learning that the 400 hadn’t come together in time. So I’m taking tomorrow off instead to travel down to Tassie for a Historic Racing Car Club of Tasmania (HRCCT) tour of northern car collections which will include me assisting Ron hosting a walk back through time to a discourse on the Elfin types 100, 300,400, 500 & 600 on Saturday!

Sunday may well see me up close to a special Chapman/Phillipe offering too - so I’m a bit excited!

#191 SJ Lambert

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 09:01

Ron let me take a couple of rough passes on this 13” casting this arvo!

F47-B4-DA4-A540-4176-BAC3-328-F50-BB158-

#192 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 09:48

Don't set fire to the swarf!

What car is this for, James?

#193 SJ Lambert

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:32

In addition to celebrations in South Australia for the 60th anniversary of Elfins, there is also a movement gathering momentum for a shin dig in Tassie too. It’ll be centred around this year’s Baskerville Historics - here’s their EOI form for anyone who’s interested!



3-D011-D46-79-A5-46-B6-BF71-295-F9-CDECC

#194 SJ Lambert

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 11:17

Glyn Scott, Warwick Farm 1970

photo by Mark Pearce

6-ADCCEB1-634-E-4-FF1-9-ADF-DAB577-EC0-E

#195 SJ Lambert

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 09:58

The Jack Bono 600B is headed south to a new home!!

386-C12-AF-7402-4-C0-C-BDC9-FA651-EE5-AD