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2013 Daytona Speedweek(s)


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#101 Shiroo

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:30

GoDaddy.com? god damn it... it sounds like porn site lol

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#102 Zippel

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:31

GoDaddy.com? god damn it... it sounds like porn site lol


If you see some of their advertising, you'd still be left with that impression! I had to go to the actual site to see what is it they actually do.

#103 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:57

I had to come on here and see what everyone was thinking given how low a regard Danica is held here.

I'm impressed by that. A pole this early in her NSACAR career.

So, the last ones in each duel will not race the race? (last ones of the drivers not locked in the 500 that is)

Does that mean if Kyle Busch retires on lap 1 form the second duel, he won't race in the 500? (Probably going to by himself in again...)


No God will ever be that benevolent.

Edited by Jimisgod, 18 February 2013 - 05:01.


#104 nosaj100

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:32

https://twitter.com/...291607103455233

@keselowski
"Fyi
Lighter cars at super speedways= disadvantage.
Every where else- advantage.
Look for conspiracies some where else pls."

@TheChrisPierce: But she has to add weight bro. Thats all Im sayin.
@keselowski: She adds some weight not the full 200, and all before tech. ”


I don't see how being lighter is a disadvantage. Surely he's not confusing lighter cars with having less downforce. I'd argue he's wrong about lighter cars being an advantage every where else too. Certain places you wouldn't mind being heavy, specifically certain areas of the car having more weight. I think Brad is just trying to be a good little soldier for NASCAR, trying to deflect any negative comments about Danica. That's fine and all but it's not negative nor is it a conspiracy.

Edited by nosaj100, 18 February 2013 - 05:35.


#105 Seth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:37

Maybe the advantage of having more weight on the inside of the car on a high-speed oval outweighs the disadvantage of having greater weight to accelerate and decelerate, which would not be of great moment on such tracks. Sort of like ballasting the car towards the inside of the turns, like an old Indy roadster.

Just positing a possible explanation for why a heavier driver might be of advantage on a superspeedway.

Edited by Seth, 18 February 2013 - 06:43.


#106 wonk123

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:33

Maybe the advantage of having more weight on the inside of the car on a high-speed oval outweighs the disadvantage of having greater weight to accelerate and decelerate, which would not be of great moment on such tracks. Sort of like ballasting the car towards the inside of the turns, like an old Indy roadster.

Just positing a possible explanation for why a heavier driver might be of advantage on a superspeedway.



Top speed is aero vs horsepower. Weight is irrelevant. So on a superspeedway I can see how being lighter is no advantage. However I can't think of a reason for heavier being an advantage, someone with more tech experience may have an answer. Afterall it's not boneville where you use the extra weight to aid traction on salt.

#107 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:53

Lighter cars would still scrub the tires less in the corner. It's probably a very slight advantage compared to the normal advantage of weight, but it's still an advantage and not a disadvantage.

If being lighter were a disadvantage, then teams would just put on more weight until they make the disadvantage disappear. The weight rule is just a minimum.

#108 PayasYouRace

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:24

It's possible that with more weight and the higher inertia that the car carries that it makes it less likely to scrub off speed at slight imperfections in track and driving style.

#109 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:17

Top speed is aero vs horsepower. Weight is irrelevant. So on a superspeedway I can see how being lighter is no advantage. However I can't think of a reason for heavier being an advantage, someone with more tech experience may have an answer. Afterall it's not boneville where you use the extra weight to aid traction on salt.


Higher weight = Higher rolling resistance owing to greater hysteresis within the rubber and carcass of the tyre, though the effect would be very marginal, but when lap times are measured down to 1/1000 of a second, could be significant when gunning for pole. Mind you, weight didn't seem to slow the late Gerry Marshall too much.

#110 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:04

So yes, I do think her apparent rise in results is related to a possible change of heart from the main sponsor.

I'm not ready to hand her the mantle of greatest racer ever but I do think she's a professional...do you really think she was not already trying her hardest and that this threat is what made her buckle down and actually try to be good instead of just show up?

She can be an entitled brat but I'm finding that a bit hard to swallow.

#111 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:14

It doesn't really make sense, and other than the Daytona result(and btw she had pole there last year in Nationwide) had her form dramatically improved at the end of last season?

#112 Red17

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:18

I'm not ready to hand her the mantle of greatest racer ever but I do think she's a professional...do you really think she was not already trying her hardest and that this threat is what made her buckle down and actually try to be good instead of just show up?

She can be an entitled brat but I'm finding that a bit hard to swallow.

Stuff like this happens all the time, you smell the rug slipping and you get the fangs out. It could be a coincidence, but it's an amazing coincidence.

Anyway, she really needs to start backing up her achievements. Look at Kimi, he could be the Anti-Danica, but he has a legion of followers who praise him as a driver and support any weird thing he does.
Danica needs to grow as a driver and show that she has craft, she is still too dependent on car form. Remember that year when she was almost out of Indy? She needs to steer clear from that image.

#113 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:18

Please, stop with the bitter little "explanations" for Danica's speed. She deserves to be there more than about half the field. Yes I understand some people don't like her overexposure, but as far as NASCAR personalities go, she's less annoying than the Busch boys and a whole lot of the drawcards who never catch such flack.

Edited by Jimisgod, 18 February 2013 - 13:19.


#114 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:28

Top speed is aero vs horsepower. Weight is irrelevant. So on a superspeedway I can see how being lighter is no advantage. However I can't think of a reason for heavier being an advantage, someone with more tech experience may have an answer.

It can't possibly be an advantage. During actual pack racing, the drivers are lifting/dragging the brake all the time to manage the distance between cars. People talk about losing momentum all the time. With these wheezing, restricted engines being all tapped out, every ounce that you can save in accelerating from 185 back up to 195 will help.

Again, not much, but I can't think of a single instance where more weight in a race car was an advantage (at least not until someone mentioned Bonneville).

#115 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:29

Please, stop with the bitter little "explanations" for Danica's speed. She deserves to be there more than about half the field.


By what criteria?

#116 Red17

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 13:37

Please, stop with the bitter little "explanations" for Danica's speed. She deserves to be there more than about half the field. Yes I understand some people don't like her overexposure, but as far as NASCAR personalities go, she's less annoying than the Busch boys and a whole lot of the drawcards who never catch such flack.

Gordon already explained her speed, no consipiracies here.
As for me. Far from bitter.
I was one of the people who believed she was the one when Rahal took her under his wing, but along the way it appears she changed her priorities once big companies like Motorola started to fund her rides. I have no problem saying that in my opinion she went from a talented hopefull who wanted to be known as a champion to a paydriver who didn't care about results.
If she is past that phase it's good. But I am also entitled to say "let's wait and see if she's for real this time shall we?".
All I said is that the timming was suspicious. Again, it may just be a weird coincidence. Tony changed the people who worked with her, it could be that as well. But again, it all fell in place when some buzz about money started.
In all my posts I have wrote the same thing, shee needs to keep improving, which was something she was not doing for most of last season. Long, who is far less experienced and drives a crapwagon was giving her a hard time.
The sport has been without a Mouton for a long time and it needs one, besides:

No one can deny this year that a whole field of 40+ guys was beaten by a girl! It will go for ages. (in a positive manner)

#117 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:04

I think it's the other way actually. When Rahal signed her she was a classic sponsor-move. Which was a good move by both of them. She became a solid, but occasionally wobbly Indycar driver and the move to NASCAR was a bit rushed. Not that more time in Indycar would have helped but doing so much Cup so soon. The best way to prepare for Cup is probably to drive in Cup but I don't know that she's ready to promote from Nationwide. But I do think NASCAR has sharpened her a lot. If nothing else she realises she can't act like Indycar Danica.

#118 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:34

Special thanks to ESPN for using Danica headshots from her Indycar days. Izod and Honda logos prominent.

#119 Boing 2

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:41

I don't really follow NASCAR, (I tried it a bit when Montoya went over but just couldn't get into it) but could someone explain Juan's lack of success? I know he's only had a couple of race wins in a career that's now longer than his F1 time which is strange for a driver with great single seater talent and lots of oval experience.

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#120 Magoo

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 15:17

Top speed is aero vs horsepower. Weight is irrelevant. So on a superspeedway I can see how being lighter is no advantage. However I can't think of a reason for heavier being an advantage, someone with more tech experience may have an answer. Afterall it's not boneville where you use the extra weight to aid traction on salt.


We have a mass and we are trying to make it change its direction 180 degrees 2x per lap. The lower the mass the lower the inertia and the easier that job will be. Even at Daytona the car does scrub off speed in the corners and part of that is due to tire friction, i.e. lateral grip.

In NASCAR the driver and car are weighed separately. Here is the weight adjustment schedule for the Gen 6 car:

DRIVER WEIGHT / MINIMUM OVERALL CAR WEIGHT
180 lbs. – Above / 3,300 lbs.
170 lbs. – 179 lbs. / 3,310 lbs.
160 lbs. – 169 lbs. / 3,320 lbs.
150 lbs. – 159 lbs. / 3,330 lbs.
140 lbs. – 149 lbs. / 3,340 lbs.

So it's conceivable that Danica could have a slight but possibly quantifiable advantage over say, Tony Stewart but Mark Martin or Jeff Gordon, not so much.


#121 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 15:26

I don't really follow NASCAR, (I tried it a bit when Montoya went over but just couldn't get into it) but could someone explain Juan's lack of success? I know he's only had a couple of race wins in a career that's now longer than his F1 time which is strange for a driver with great single seater talent and lots of oval experience.


Not really strange, the same happens when F1 drivers go to DTM, a conspicuous lack of success; I don't think that they find it easy to drive through the lack of precision inherent in a saloon/sedan - It's like an opera singer trying to sing pop music, as anyone who has listened to the painful sound of Kiri Te Kanawa singing show tunes can confirm - Sublime when singing Verdi, Puccini or Strauss' Four Last Songs, but her operatic technique wrecks the phrasing of songs designed to be sung by the Sinatras of the world.

#122 Magoo

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 15:29

By what criteria?


ROI to sponsors, just to throw that one out there.

I am sure Danica haters don't realize they do exactly what they accuse the Danica fans of doing: holding her to a totally different standard than the rest of the field.

For example: I wish the Danica haters could hear themselves obsessively speculating about her supposed attitudes and mindset. That's a pure case of projection right there. How many guys know what their spouses are really thinking at this moment, and they think they are are reading Danica's mind from 2000 miles away? Really? Honestly, they sound like a bunch of old women at the beauty parlor. Danica that hussy that bitch blah blah blah. It reminds me of the old sportswriters' adage: Sports are just soap operas for boys.

#123 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 16:23

I don't really follow NASCAR, (I tried it a bit when Montoya went over but just couldn't get into it) but could someone explain Juan's lack of success? I know he's only had a couple of race wins in a career that's now longer than his F1 time which is strange for a driver with great single seater talent and lots of oval experience.



Transition is one thing. It's not so easy to go left. And left. In fact it's very difficult and a completely new kind of discipline. It's like restarting from the beginning in a new motorsport career but start at the top gaining experience against the best of the best. almost like starting your motorsport career in F1 if you like.

Team competitiveness is another thing. The Ganassi team has never been the best of the best in NASCAR. It's like Jordan/Stewart/Sauber if you want to compare. With an added mess over ownership structure and the merger with the Earnhardt team into Earnhardt Ganassi. Change of makes from Dodge to Chevrolet. New team staff and new crew chiefs with even changes of crew chiefs during the seasons. New engine suppliers.

A couple of seasons ago they were on the brink on really cracking it when Montoya made the Chase and ran realy strong throughout the whole season. The consistency was there for top 10's and top 5's. Lately that consistency has gone in the team. There are silently some high hopes for this season after last season was spent restructuring the whole team. So there is definetly a case of a not so competitive team to explain it as well.

Inexperience is also a factor which goes hand in hand with transistion. Montoya has far less experience than his competitors doing this so he is behind and catching up. He is good though, but you need to be more than good to challenge the Johnsons/Stewarts/Keselowskis/Gordons/Hamlins/Edwards etc. on a consistent basis. Look at Ambrose - far more experience from the car type with his background in V8 supercars (although it's a completely different animals it's at least a heavy low grip live rear axle V8 car ...) and like Montoya he's been with a mid field team and found most of his success on the road courses.

Personally I believe Montoya can be a regular Chase contender and as such an outside bet for a championship if he and the team gets it together at the same time. He definetly has the potential to win on an oval on merit, not by inherit a win. But I think a lot of F1 fans underestimate the difficulty in going into NASCAR and be succesful as a road race in touringcars or single seaters or even as a oval racer in single seaters. Montoya and Ambrose are both much better than any other having made that transistion (if you exclude Tony Steward on the merit of him only/mostly racing ovals as a single seater driver).

NASCAR is just really really competitive and difficult. None more so than Sprint Cup where there are many great teams and drivers with huge amounts of experience.

You can name so many examples - how long did it take Penske to finally win in the highest division of NASCAR? That's how tough this is.

#124 Jim Thurman

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 17:58

It's not a question of could she. Of course, she could. But, based on some shady NASCAR results, the real question is did she.

For those of you too young to remember, NASCAR went through a period of ridiculously dubious results. A team would be struggling to find a sponsor or get a new sponsor and...voila! on the pole! (once after running 43rd or 44th in practice, before the sponsor was announced). Kasey Kahne sure got on a hot streak at a time when NASCAR was in hearings to build a track near Seattle...but, I'm sure that's just a coincidence. There were times it truly looked like hippodroming with drivers moving over for a dramatic last lap pass or to set up a very close finish.

When the 2001 400 came up at Daytona, a noted NASCAR writer e-mailed me that he didn't think they'd be so blatant as to give it to Junior. When Jr. won, I got an e-mail from him "wow, they really don't care. Their boldness knows no bounds."

Maybe it will be like Motegi and the leader will be told to move over on the backstretch to save fuel...on the final lap :)

Is Helio in the race? :)

Edited by Jim Thurman, 18 February 2013 - 17:59.


#125 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 17:59

ROI to sponsors, just to throw that one out there.

I am sure Danica haters don't realize they do exactly what they accuse the Danica fans of doing: holding her to a totally different standard than the rest of the field.

For example: I wish the Danica haters could hear themselves obsessively speculating about her supposed attitudes and mindset. That's a pure case of projection right there. How many guys know what their spouses are really thinking at this moment, and they think they are are reading Danica's mind from 2000 miles away? Really? Honestly, they sound like a bunch of old women at the beauty parlor. Danica that hussy that bitch blah blah blah. It reminds me of the old sportswriters' adage: Sports are just soap operas for boys.

I'll give you that sometimes the diva moments get exaggerated, but there has to be something there to exaggerate.



#126 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:00

I don't really follow NASCAR, (I tried it a bit when Montoya went over but just couldn't get into it) but could someone explain Juan's lack of success? I know he's only had a couple of race wins in a career that's now longer than his F1 time which is strange for a driver with great single seater talent and lots of oval experience.

Part of it is eqipment, part of it is that he's not as hungry any more.

#127 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:03

BTW that gimmick little track on the backstretch deal, the practice is being streamed live on YouTube:

#128 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:04

It's not a question of could she. Of course, she could. But, based on some shady NASCAR results, the real question is did she.

For those of you too young to remember, NASCAR went through a period of ridiculously dubious results. A team would be struggling to find a sponsor or get a new sponsor and...voila! on the pole! (once after running 43rd or 44th in practice, before the sponsor was announced). Kasey Kahne sure got on a hot streak at a time when NASCAR was in hearings to build a track near Seattle...but, I'm sure that's just a coincidence. There were times it truly looked like hippodroming with drivers moving over for a dramatic last lap pass or to set up a very close finish.

When the 2001 400 came up at Daytona, a noted NASCAR writer e-mailed me that he didn't think they'd be so blatant as to give it to Junior. When Jr. won, I got an e-mail from him "wow, they really don't care. Their boldness knows no bounds."

Maybe it will be like Motegi and the leader will be told to move over on the backstretch to save fuel...on the final lap :)

Is Helio in the race? :)


Thing is, DEI cars were dominant at plate tracks for a few years. I don't know if they found a trick and got it by the inspectors or just dumped all their resources on plate tracks because winning Daytona was worth it. But nothing about the results was un-trend like. I think what happened at Daytona July 2001 was when they saw Dale Jr coming the other drivers didn't fight too hard.

Likewise Danica's result doesn't stand out when you look at where the other Hendrick powered cars are. Of which she is one. Do Stewart-Haas get the cars/bodies from Hendrick? How much of their own work would they do?

#129 SR388

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:10

It's not a question of could she. Of course, she could. But, based on some shady NASCAR results, the real question is did she.

For those of you too young to remember, NASCAR went through a period of ridiculously dubious results. A team would be struggling to find a sponsor or get a new sponsor and...voila! on the pole! (once after running 43rd or 44th in practice, before the sponsor was announced). Kasey Kahne sure got on a hot streak at a time when NASCAR was in hearings to build a track near Seattle...but, I'm sure that's just a coincidence. There were times it truly looked like hippodroming with drivers moving over for a dramatic last lap pass or to set up a very close finish.

When the 2001 400 came up at Daytona, a noted NASCAR writer e-mailed me that he didn't think they'd be so blatant as to give it to Junior. When Jr. won, I got an e-mail from him "wow, they really don't care. Their boldness knows no bounds."

Maybe it will be like Motegi and the leader will be told to move over on the backstretch to save fuel...on the final lap :)

Is Helio in the race? :)


I never got the whole "Fix is in" thing.

If NASCAR was really out to fix things, why on earth would their most popular driver (Jr.) not be a champion by now?

#130 Mario5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:29

https://twitter.com/...291607103455233

@keselowski
"Fyi
Lighter cars at super speedways= disadvantage.
Every where else- advantage.
Look for conspiracies some where else pls."

@TheChrisPierce: But she has to add weight bro. Thats all Im sayin.
@keselowski: She adds some weight not the full 200, and all before tech. ”

I think he means that a heavier car is better in drafting, that's all. Every time that a new generation car is introduced in NASCAR that is lighter than the previous model, the drivers always complain about how "twitchy" they are while drafting. This has been going on since I've been watching NASCAR for about thirty years now. A heavier car is more stable in a pack and this mainly applies on super speedways with restrictor plates where drafting is key .

#131 Magoo

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 18:37

I like Jenna Fryer's take on "the call:" If it really existed, Dale Jr. would have won a few races in the past five years.

And here's my take. If I were a journalist who believed in the call, I'd go work the story. Since such a rig job would necessarily involve dozens of people, somebody would have to know something somewhere. I could half-ass prove it happened even a little and then swing past and pick up my slam-dunk Pulitzer on the way home.


Here is the thing about the call. The conspiracy theories are not based on one shred of evidence, even hearsay, but only on the premise that some people find some race results more "suspicious" than others, as in "too good to be true." But that is the essence of NASCAR: The press corps, NASCAR PR, and 43 full-time team publicists relentlessly work multiple feel-good story lines, every one they can dig up or make up, week after week. One of them has to pan out. Why do we even care if Joe Blow or Jane Doe wins in any given week? Because they made us care. It's not a conspiracy, only light theatre.

#132 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:01

Yeah I think it's more a numbers thing. We never remember The Calls that don't happen, and there's so many storylines thrown at us it's easy to lose track of them.

And this is my excuse to trot out my personal example of it. I was working with Haas-Carter in 2002. KMart had gone into bankruptcy before the season started but were paid up for Daytona so Bodine and Nemechek ran. At round 3(?) Vegas, the car was on pole. Believe me, I was suspicious and so were some of the other marketing people. It was too good to be true. But, the cars were very good. They'd been quick in qualifying and testing in 2001(I remember someone doing some big numbers at the Brickyard) and the team was playing around with simulation software when other teams hadn't gone that route yet. And frankly NASCAR pole results are all over the place, there's no form book.

So you had the situation, and the suspicion, but I could also find a logical explanation.

And with 35-ish races a year sometimes lightning strikes. Harvick winning immediately for Childress in 2001, Jamie McMurray winning within a handful of starts at Ganassi, etc. Exciting finishes happen enough that we don't really suspect anything, it's only when the players involved seem to line-up with the plot lines. But 99% of the time there isn't anything other than coincidence to get your teeth into.

So there's nothing suspicious about Danica being quick at Daytona(Nationwide 2012) or the cars being quick(all the Hendrick Power in the top 10).

Btw I think this is her 5th career pole, ever? The first three, her rookie year in Indycar. If you wanted to have sour grapes about a car advantage, that was it. 2004/2005 Rahal-Hondas were very stout. When Brack got into Rice's car at Indy on a whim and basically set the fastest time of the month, that told you everything.

#133 jonpollak

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:23

Y'all DO KNOW that the entire 10 team is made up of DEI's Junior/Kulwicki crew from back in the day.
Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 18 February 2013 - 20:07.


#134 Jim Thurman

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:41

I'll just sit back and enjoy the explanations and defensiveness.

But, please, let's not apply a tin-hat to someone just because they disagree or say something you don't like. Even though I know that's very internets :)

It certainly got things going around here :D

#135 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:43

But I think if there was meat to it, more than a wry-grin, there'd be someone chasing it. Yeah most people on the inside aren't really going to blow the whistle, but it'd be like Lance Armstrong. There'd be someone out there going "hey, wait a minute".

#136 Red17

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:55

But, please, let's not apply a tin-hat to someone just because they disagree or say something you don't like. Even though I know that's very internets :)

Posted Image
Dude! We don't use those anymore.
Asshat is the new wave.

#137 Jim Thurman

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 20:05

But I think if there was meat to it, more than a wry-grin, there'd be someone chasing it. Yeah most people on the inside aren't really going to blow the whistle, but it'd be like Lance Armstrong. There'd be someone out there going "hey, wait a minute".

I'm glad you brought up Cancer Armstrong. When I'd point out the Gordon-Stewart situation, you used to wonder why no one covered it.

I point to Armstrong and Te'o, examples of no one in the media asking the right questions or even bothering to add 1 + 1.

The mainstream media simply aren't interested in wheeled sports. And they are ignorant about them.

Though there were a few (very few) that tried it with Armstrong and got shouted down, or discredited, by their brethren. As far as I'm aware, they were British or European. I don't know of any U.S. writers. Certainly none in the major media.

The Armstrong case should be used as a textbook example of how NOT to cover something. There was serious smoke and flames for a long time, but most were too busy screaming "USA USA USA!" to look and went along with his attack and discreditation march. Despite how they're trying to cover their asses now, no one in the mainstream media pursued Armstrong. They simply didn't want it to be. Pathetic. Anyone that was part of the pro-Armstrong campaign should literally no longer be a "journalist"...because they proved they aren't.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 18 February 2013 - 20:08.


#138 Jim Thurman

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 20:09

Posted Image
Dude! We don't use those anymore.
Asshat is the new wave.

:rotfl:

#139 Red17

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 20:12

The Armstrong case should be used as a textbook example of how NOT to cover something. There was serious smoke and flames for a long time, but most were too busy screaming "USA USA USA!" to look and went along with his attack and discreditation march. I'll tell you this, despite how they're trying to cover their asses now, no one in the mainstream media pursued Armstrong. They simply didn't want it to be. Pathetic. Anyone that was part of the pro-Armstrong campaign should literally no longer be a "journalist"...because they proved they aren't.

US athletes caught on enhancement drugs has been a common occurrence for years, it's a bit like Montemezolo's Yearly Threat to Leave. No one cares, no one hears anymore.

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#140 nosaj100

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 21:12

We have a mass and we are trying to make it change its direction 180 degrees 2x per lap. The lower the mass the lower the inertia and the easier that job will be. Even at Daytona the car does scrub off speed in the corners and part of that is due to tire friction, i.e. lateral grip.

In NASCAR the driver and car are weighed separately. Here is the weight adjustment schedule for the Gen 6 car:

DRIVER WEIGHT / MINIMUM OVERALL CAR WEIGHT
180 lbs. – Above / 3,300 lbs.
170 lbs. – 179 lbs. / 3,310 lbs.
160 lbs. – 169 lbs. / 3,320 lbs.
150 lbs. – 159 lbs. / 3,330 lbs.
140 lbs. – 149 lbs. / 3,340 lbs.

So it's conceivable that Danica could have a slight but possibly quantifiable advantage over say, Tony Stewart but Mark Martin or Jeff Gordon, not so much.


Good to see the numbers there. I'd say it's pretty conceivable to say that with the engine packages being near equal amongst other restrictions then Danica's weight and Gordon's weight could give them that fraction of a second difference. But it's just qualifying though. Plate qualifying is a truly unique set of circumstances. This slight advantage won't show up during the race itself or at any other track. I don't think people understand that. People seem to be getting all offended at explaining why something happened just because Danica was involved. Maybe they can't disassociate advantage with cheating or conspiracy. Circumstances can lead to a legal advantage and its not derogatory to explore the causes of those events.


And just to weigh in a bit on "the call" stuff, NASCAR could help disspell a lot of that talk by simply being more transparent and efficient with how they call races. For example, when the dreaded mystery debris caution flies just at the same time a certain driver is running out of gas or vice versa where someone with a poor standing with the sport (think Kurt Busch after a tirade) doesn't get a caution flag as the 2nd place guy closing in on 1st as cars are wrecking all over the place. When you're just inconsistent with rules enforcement, it leaves the door open for people to question your motives. And since most stock fans attend local tracks where there are typically shady dealings going on, those fans just assume the same thing keeps happening at the top unless shown otherwise.

Edited by nosaj100, 18 February 2013 - 21:14.


#141 Boing 2

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 21:43

Not really strange, the same happens when F1 drivers go to DTM, a conspicuous lack of success; I don't think that they find it easy to drive through the lack of precision inherent in a saloon/sedan -



Transition is one thing. It's not so easy to go left. And left. In fact it's very difficult and a completely new kind of discipline. It's like restarting from the beginning in a new motorsport career but start at the top gaining experience against the best of the best. almost like starting your motorsport career in F1 if you like.

Team competitiveness is another thing. The Ganassi team has never been the best of the best in NASCAR. It's like Jordan/Stewart/Sauber if you want to compare. With an added mess over ownership structure and the merger with the Earnhardt team into Earnhardt Ganassi. Change of makes from Dodge to Chevrolet. New team staff and new crew chiefs with even changes of crew chiefs during the seasons. New engine suppliers.


Yeah, strange to talk of difficulty in transitioning though, he's gone from pretty heavy turbo powered Indycars to F1 and was right on it from day one, I'm amazed he's taken 6 years and still isn't on the ball. I thought it might be because he's more of a hustler behind the wheel which doesn't work too well in oval racing but then he was quick on the ovals in single seaters. Maybe it is a team thing as you say, I don't follow NASCAR but Ganassi always seemed pretty switched on in Indycars, strange to see them not up to scratch.

#142 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 21:55

But he was better a few years ago. *A lot* better. He had a Reverse Call when he got pinged for speeding while dominating the Brickyard. Though that's classic Montoya, he shouldn't have pushed it so much in that position.

I think it's a combo of the team being in the doldrums and him possibly not being into it so much anymore. Hopefully his mood would improve with the speed of the cars.

#143 Red17

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 21:56

Yeah, strange to talk of difficulty in transitioning though, he's gone from pretty heavy turbo powered Indycars to F1 and was right on it from day one, I'm amazed he's taken 6 years and still isn't on the ball.

Hornish Jr. is still learning and in NNS, Kimi seemed to be fine on his 2 outings, Franchiti went back to Indycars.... Some people adapt better than others.

#144 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 22:40

I reckon Loeb could cut it.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 18 February 2013 - 22:41.


#145 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 22:51

But he was better a few years ago. *A lot* better. He had a Reverse Call when he got pinged for speeding while dominating the Brickyard. Though that's classic Montoya, he shouldn't have pushed it so much in that position.

I think it's a combo of the team being in the doldrums and him possibly not being into it so much anymore. Hopefully his mood would improve with the speed of the cars.

NASCAR is funny that way sometimes. One year the team can do no wrong, the next it can't do anything right. It's almost like there is something like a tire war in NASCAR, where the teams who are on the right tires at the right time dominate, and everyone else might as well stay home.

#146 jonpollak

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 22:54

He had a Reverse Call when he got pinged for speeding while dominating the Brickyard.


Oooh...
Remind me to tell you about that next time I see ya....

Jp

#147 John B

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 23:04

Jimmy Spencer's two plate track wins during the summer of 1994 have been cited as a possible attempt to placate sponsor McDonald's, which was weighing its commitment to the sport then and was obviously a big sponsor score. According to one story they never meant to stay with Johnson, and the team would 'feel the wrath of NASCAR' as a result. IIRC the team got a record fine penalty at Daytona the following year for an engine weld violation that some believe was overlooked the previous year.

Actually, didn't McMurray win just before Ganassi confirmed McDs again a couple years ago? To be fair EGR engines showed well at the other plate races that year.....

Edited by John B, 18 February 2013 - 23:10.


#148 Myrvold

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 23:33

And there has been some Dale jr. stories over the years. And it wasn't any surprise that Michael Waltrip won the Truck race at Daytone 18th Feb 2011, when he won his first Daytona 500 the 18th Feb 2001. It just, fitted so nicely in.

#149 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 23:40

Waltrip's good at plate tracks, I'll give him that. He was about to snooker the field at Talladega last year before Tony decided he preferred bowling. So him winning a truck race is not out of the ordinary.

#150 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 00:08

This Battle of the Beach or whatever race it is, on the backstraight, is weird. Weird in a good way, but weird. Stacks of tires on the 'infield'.