81 replies to this topic

[Boing 2]

Can they veto the use of ADRIAN NEWEY?

Probably not but they may be able to specify a minimum hair-to-skin ratio for the chief designers head, that would do it.

[KnucklesAgain]

Sure - now explain why they're so important and deserve preferential treatment please :-)

As posted just before: http://www.autoblog....ahead-of-apple/
(Edit: And again, not saying that I think they deserve it. But this is a business first and foremost, not a sport as such, and this is why they are so important.)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 14 March 2013 - 15:57.

[tifosi]

Sure - now explain why they're so important and deserve preferential treatment please :-)

Ask the average guy on the street what a Ferrari is.

Ask the average guy on the street what a Red Bull is.

[fabr68]

Sure - now explain why they're so important and deserve preferential treatment please :-)

Any team that brings 2/3 of the fanbase to the sport's economy will be given some sort of decision power. Veto. This is merely to accept or not a new change. It has nothing to do on changing the present rules of the game to alter current results but rather an incentive for them to stay in the future. Have Marrussia bring the same money to the sport and they would get similar privileges. It is called the real world.

[Gareth]

But this is a business first and foremost, not a sport as such

I think it's both.

Do you think the business would be nearly as succesful were it to not be considered a sport? F1 has to at least keep up the image of being a sport to keep the $ roling in as they are.

[KnucklesAgain]

I think it's both.

Do you think the business would be nearly as succesful were it to not be considered a sport? F1 has to at least keep up the image of being a sport to keep the $ roling in as they are.

Agreed, but the image is kept up just fine. Who will hear about this outside of F1 BBs?

[KnucklesAgain]

Ask the average guy on the street what a Ferrari is.

Ask the average guy on the street what a Red Bull is.

At least they would come up with the drink. But "what is Williams, or a McLaren" gives you most likely blank stares.

[Gareth]

Agreed, but the image is kept up just fine. Who will hear about this outside of F1 BBs?

My wife when I whinge about it if it's ever used and comes to light ... oh, ok, you win

[mattferg]

Ask the average guy on the street what a Ferrari is.

Ask the average guy on the street what a Red Bull is.

They'd be able to answer both. But neither of their answers would be a Formula 1 car.

Any team that brings 2/3 of the fanbase to the sport's economy will be given some sort of decision power. Veto. This is merely to accept or not a new change. It has nothing to do on changing the present rules of the game to alter current results but rather an incentive for them to stay in the future. Have Marrussia bring the same money to the sport and they would get similar privileges. It is called the real world.

If you think Ferrari has 2/3 of the entire fanbase in F1 you're seriously mistaken. Just look at the grandstands in races - all the Michael fans had Mercedes flags, there was an awful lot of Red Bull too. Not 2/3 Ferrari but probably the largest segment. Don't change facts just to support your own opinions please.

[Xeriks]

Don't worry people; unlike the most corrupt team on the grid known as Red Bull, Scuderia Ferrari have morals.

Maranello are the most modest, humble and legitimate team on the grid.

With Ferrari in power, it's pretty much guaranteed that F1 is heading in the right direction.

[tifosi]

They'd be able to answer both. But neither of their answers would be a Formula 1 car.

No, but 1 would be a car, and people would be able to relate it to racing.

Or to put it another way: "Hey bud, wanna go race some Ferraris this weekend"?
vs "Hey bud wanna go have a Red Bull"?

[tifosi]

If you think Ferrari has 2/3 of the entire fanbase in F1 you're seriously mistaken.

I haven't been to alot of F1 races and people can correct me if its different elsewhere. But every year when I go to Montreal I see:

A McLaren tent selling crap
A Williams tent selling crap
A Red Bull tent selling crap
4 or 5 F1 tents selling crap.
10 to 12 Ferrari tents selling crap.

[SpaMaster]

Any team that brings 2/3 of the fanbase to the sport's economy will be given some sort of decision power. Veto. This is merely to accept or not a new change. It has nothing to do on changing the present rules of the game to alter current results but rather an incentive for them to stay in the future. Have Marrussia bring the same money to the sport and they would get similar privileges. It is called the real world.

Would you wake up from your dream? No team has that kind of fanbase. Every 2 fans out of 3 is a Ferrari fan? Remaining are to be split between McLaren, Schumacher, Senna, etc? Ferrari has more number of fans than any team or any team, but more then all of them combined and then some? Incentive to stay could be money. You don't need veto power on regulations and then you say that has nothing to do with changing regulations. If that's the case, why have it at all?

Still, none of this is confirmed.

Edited by SpaMaster, 14 March 2013 - 17:48.

[JeanClaude]

Would you wake up from your dream? No team has that kind of fanbase. Every 2 fans out of 3 is a Ferrari fan? Remaining are to be split between McLaren, Schumacher, Senna, etc? Ferrari has more number of fans than any team or any team, but more then all of them combined and then some? Incentive to stay could be money. You don't need veto power on regulations and then you say that has nothing to do with changing regulations. If that's the case, why have it at all?

Yep 2/3 would be a bit much but it's by far the largest fanbase

Ferrari is going nowhere but it feels it deserves the extra money it receives and wants a veto probably to protect itself from regulations (changes) that would be to the detriment of (the marque) Ferrari.

Being the most important team in F1, something Bernie has acknowledged in the press many times, they've seemingly convinced the commercial rights holder and the regulator to extend them these -financial- privileges.

Nothing strange or untoward that's how things go in business and F1 is very much a business to all involved but the fans.

Who knows the veto might come in handy when FIA come up with another daft idea, at least then we have someone to stop them

JC

[Kingshark]

Ferrari is by far both the most popular and powerful team in F1, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.

[Garagiste]

I haven't been to alot of F1 races and people can correct me if its different elsewhere. But every year when I go to Montreal I see:

A McLaren tent selling crap
A Williams tent selling crap
A Red Bull tent selling crap
4 or 5 F1 tents selling crap.
10 to 12 Ferrari tents selling crap.

No, you're about right - only difference in Europe is that you also have a burger tent selling horse.

[Mc_Silver]

Ferrari is by far both the most popular and powerful team in F1, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.

Even if it is true, so what? Does it mean they deserve that unfair treatment?

Edited by Mc_Silver, 14 March 2013 - 18:47.

[Ferrari2183]

I don't think anyone has reasonably expressed the form that this veto will take in order to gauge quite how outraged we need to be. Does anyone have any idea or are we just going to tilt at windmills?

I think the tweet says it all. Veto over future sport and technical regulations. I have also been following the author of the tweet for some time and he is not one to post crap. Corriere dello sport is also not one to publish unsubstantiated pieces.

Anyway, when trying to oust Mosley, the other teams were quite happy to use Ferrari's veto for their own gain as well. So I don't think this is as clear cut as it may seem.

[mattferg]

No, but 1 would be a car, and people would be able to relate it to racing.

Or to put it another way: "Hey bud, wanna go race some Ferraris this weekend"?
vs "Hey bud wanna go have a Red Bull"?

Doesn't matter. Red Bull has a HUGE presence across the world of sport. From that guy who jumped from a balloon to canoes with engines on Top Gear, Red Bull Salzburg, RB is easily relatable to sport and motorsport.

Edited by mattferg, 14 March 2013 - 19:47.

[Tombstone]

I think this is quite understandable

No. It's horses*it.

[Tombstone]

Ferrari is by far both the most popular and powerful team in F1, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.

Well, there are a lot of people less intelligent than I am. Doesn't make them right.

[Scudetto]

Do any the belly-achers, arm-wavers, or foot-stompers around here have any - ANY - information relating to the scope or parameters relating to this supposed veto power beyond what is contained in the two ambiguous tweet in the OP?

Because the last time we had the Ferrari veto discussion in 2009, it turned out that Ferrari held that power for four years - with the full knowledge and approval of the other teams, mind you -- and yet none of the little boys who cried "wolf" could point to a single instance where that power was exercised by Ferrari to steer the course of either regulations or the sport as a whole.

[mattferg]

Do any the belly-achers, arm-wavers, or foot-stompers around here have any - ANY - information relating to the scope or parameters relating to this supposed veto power beyond what is contained in the two ambiguous tweet in the OP?

Because the last time we had the Ferrari veto discussion in 2009, it turned out that Ferrari held that power for four years - with the full knowledge and approval of the other teams, mind you -- and yet none of the little boys who cried "wolf" could point to a single instance where that power was exercised by Ferrari to steer the course of either regulations or the sport as a whole.

We can now though - it's fairly well known/well rumoured Ferrari was incremental in limiting front wing flex and engine maps... both of which benefited Ferrari and no-one else.

[JeanClaude]

No. It's horses*it.

No problem, it's common that people who don't understand things label them as horses*it

It's the reality deal with it
Ferrari are the biggest fish in the pond and they'll sway terms their way as much as possible
That's good for business in the real world

JC

[Fastcake]

No problem, it's common that people who don't understand things label them as horses*it

It's the reality deal with it
Ferrari are the biggest fish in the pond and they'll sway terms their way as much as possible
That's good for business in the real world

JC

It generally doesn't sit well with the regulators though. The special terms granted to Ferrari should come under serious review if someone had the guts to take the matter to the EU. As ever though, what happens in these negotiations remains shrouded in mystery.

[fabr68]

I think the tweet says it all. Veto over future sport and technical regulations. I have also been following the author of the tweet for some time and he is not one to post crap. Corriere dello sport is also not one to publish unsubstantiated pieces.

Anyway, when trying to oust Mosley, the other teams were quite happy to use Ferrari's veto for their own gain as well. So I don't think this is as clear cut as it may seem.

That is exactly right. Fans of other teams bitch and moan about Ferrari having more power but when the sport owners want to screw all teams with dumb new regulations and requirements, all teams quietly and conveniently stand behind Ferrari when they use their veto power to keep sanity in the sport and prevent it from some stupidity to take place.

Besides, it is only a rumour and the biching, moaning, finger-pointing and rage towards Ferrari has started already.

Edited by fabr68, 15 March 2013 - 00:41.

[Gareth]

Do any the belly-achers, arm-wavers, or foot-stompers around here have any - ANY - information relating to the scope or parameters relating to this supposed veto power beyond what is contained in the two ambiguous tweet in the OP?

Because the last time we had the Ferrari veto discussion in 2009, it turned out that Ferrari held that power for four years - with the full knowledge and approval of the other teams, mind you -- and yet none of the little boys who cried "wolf" could point to a single instance where that power was exercised by Ferrari to steer the course of either regulations or the sport as a whole.

1. Difficult to point to things done in secret, isn't it?

2. If it hasn't been used, why do they want it?

3. Would Manchester United having a veto on any changes to the laws of football, the Pittsburgh Steelers on any changes to NFL rules, Jessica Ennis on any changes to the Heptathalon points system, Tiger Woods on changes to the rules of golf etc strike you as perfectly fine?

4. IMO, any competitor having formal and greater influence over the rules of the sport than those they compete against is fundamentally incorrect - whether that power gets used or not. Let's debate that proposition as a hypothetical, eh? As connection to Ferrari seems to make you all emotional, judging by the language in your post.

[Oho]

If you think Ferrari has 2/3 of the entire fanbase in F1 you're seriously mistaken.

Quite frankly it would seem Ferrari has the most casual fans and as a consequence least informed fan base for any of the more established teams, and it shows.

[Raelene]

Quite frankly it would seem Ferrari has the most casual fans and as a consequence least informed fan base for any of the more established teams, and it shows.

I agree. Everytime I went to a gp in Melbourne, all the Italian friends I had would be out with Ferrari gear...they then never watched another race until Melbourne rolled around.

[Sakae]

Why give any team in F1 the veto? I simply can't understand it.

F1 without people investing a lot of money would bland into myriad of another series, yet are you suggesting that investors should not have anything to say, and all decisions should be made only by milking accountants? Problem IMO is not that Ferrari has veto over some decisions, but that only Ferrari has veto over some decisions.

_______________

On another subject, what's the deal between FiA and a new CA?

[David1976]

Probably not but they may be able to specify a minimum hair-to-skin ratio for the chief designers head, that would do it.

Excellent.

[zeph]

Are you surprised? given Jean Todt ties to Ferrari?

I read Todt left after a power struggle with Di Montezemolo, not a good basis for subsequent nepotism.